Does the #meetoo movement help to encourage transgender acceptance...

...by putting us in a better light?

Seems that nowadays, almost every time one turns on any media source, there is a new accusation/revelation put forth that some prominent (and sometimes not-so-prominent) formerly respected and accomplished male "role model" at his core is nothing more than a testosterone-fueled macho jerk. Anthony Wiener, Harvey Weinstein, Kevin Spacey, Bill O'Reilly, Charlie Rose, Bill Cosby, Matt Lauer, Louis C.K., Roy Moore and Al Franken among others are currently in the news, but let's not forget their sex-scandal tainted predecessors such as Bill Clinton, former Italian Premier Sylvio Berlusconi, Woody Allen, and Roman Polanski either. Even beloved JFK.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I can't recall the last time a crossdresser or otherwise transgender person was accused of sexually harassing a GG, sending her a "dick pic", masturbating in front of her or rubbing her inappropriately. On the contrary, we seem to be a rather benign lot by virtue of our "feminine" inclinations when it comes to being sexually aggressive. If anything, WE tend to be the ones being harassed - either by transphobes, or else even by our wives and SO's (especially those of us in unaccepting/DADT relationships), who constantly berate us for having turned out not to be the "real men" they thought they had married). But then again, as the ancient proverb states..."Be careful what you wish for..."

So my question is...given this widespread reprehensible behavior on the part of "normal" males that has tacitly been accepted by society in the past but is now being blown out of the water by women no longer willing to put up with it, can we transgender types now look forward to some sort of validation (and perhaps even overdue respect) for not being that type of jerk, despite our somewhat (ahem!) unusual inclinations regarding clothing choices and the place we occupy on the gender spectrum?

My personal opinion? In a word, no. We won't get any sort of validation out of this.

My moderator's opinion: Be very careful not to allow this thread to slide over into a political rant which would have to be deleted. I know it's tempting to go there, but don't.

People don't tend to harass, or act inappropriately around anyone they love and respect. There are inappropriate things happening on some CD web sites, but I believe true TG's ,or CD'ers have too much love and respect for women to be macho jerks around them. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, and whether you imitate partially, or emulate totally the female sex is respected.

Leslie,
Go back in history and find not much has changed, it's just the media can make more of it now, is that a good thing or bad I'm not sure ? Some like playing up to the media hype and others are rightly brought to justice .

Does all this validate us , the media is also double edged for us, if they get the labels correct we benefit if they get it wrong we usually end up on the receiving end if issues like the bathroom problem.

I'm afraid women do put up with it if enough money is involved ! How often have we thought why a beautiful woman is arm in arm with an absolute creep /jerk.

Nothing wrong with our inclinations , we are possibly some of the nicest members of the public, I've heard this comment more than once since I've been out .

Gillian I think most CDers are scared of their wives and just won't admit it.
They may love and respect them to some degree but they are scared their wives will gin up some reason to divorce him and take everything he has worked for all his life.
Hollywood elites have always done whatever they want but now they are being seen for the sick aholes they really are.
I for one am glad the public is seeing these jack asses for what they are.
Political people are cut from the same stripe they think they can do anything they want and treat people however they want.
Again I am glad all of this is coming to light because its sick and needs to stop.
They want to call me out for being TG thats fine I am not perverted they are. You don't see me in the news do you?

I’d be careful about making assumptions. Just a very short time ago, there were a lot of people that would have said that men don’t get sexually assaulted or harassed. Terry Crews and Kevin Spacey have proven that just because you don’t hear about it, doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen.

As for public opinion, I think it’s just too unrelated. When people think about that issue, transgender rights isn’t the first thing that pops into their heads. Just like I’m sure there were some really awesome people helping clean up after the hurricanes but it didn’t turn into a referendum on Trans Rights.

I witnessed an odd encounter at my SO's social group venue. One trans person was hugged by another trans person. I did not witness the initial event that lead up to the hugging, however, did witness the actual hug. It was done in the presence of many other people at the venue apparently looked like a gesture of friendship. The person that was hugged took offense and complained to the venue's coordinator. The coordinator was obligated to call the police. The police came and made out a police report (assault report) against the hugger. So, a gesture that may or may not have been innocent (but done in public view), turned out to be a huge deal!

My SO tends to hug the people in his social group and other people meeting at that same venue. I warned my SO against future hugging. Which is all too bad because I've seen innocent hello/goodbye hugs given all around for the past five years.

That said, I'm sure the "me too" movement will and has helped transgender people who have been disrespected but apparently the violation is not always clear cut. One person's gesture of friendship may be another person's violation of personal space.

My take on all of this is, keep your hands to yourself and don't touch other people!

Good points, Char, and yes, it certainly is a minefield out there these days when it comes to even innocent gestures such as a hug if it is misconstrued by the other party. But that said, while many men can be seen as indulging in potentially predatory behavior on a daily basis, women can set themselves up for criticism in their own way for the typically feminine "touchy-feely" or exhibitionist types of gestures that they often engage in.

I can't count the number of times over the years when a woman (often a stranger or simply a passing acquaintance) either touched me on the shoulder, the hand, or the forearm or else "air-kissed" me at a social function...likely all innocent gestures of endearment in their minds, but still potentially confusing or unwanted interactions on the part of the recipient. And I won't even mention the dental hygienist who jammed my head against her ample bosom to better position herself for cleaning my teeth while I was in drab, the female MRI technician wearing the loose-fitting cowl-neck sweater and push-up bra that left very little to the imagination as she bent over to position me properly on the gurney prior to starting the scan, or the middle-aged, still shapely teller at the local bank branch who sits behind a low counter, but must know darn well that whoever is standing in front of her to conduct their business with her is going to get an eye-full when they happen to look down and see her deep, only partially-obscured cleavage staring them right in the face from under her low cut top.

While this type of female interaction or exhibitionism may not be in quite the same league as the predatory moves perpetrated by many men, it, too, likely qualifies as a form of sexual harassment in its own right. I wonder if - as the #metoo movement continues to gain traction - there might not some day be a backlash when these kinds of "flirty" women will get called on their own brand of B.S. as well...

Had to call the police because of a hug ??
OMG that is just silly all the person that didn't want to be hugged could have said hey don't do that.
No need to drop an assault charge on a person and potentially cause them legal harm and possibly trouble at home.
Now please don't all you so called progressive types wanting to claim well someone was in that persons "space" that shouldn't have been.
The hugger made an innocent mistake nothing more. Its not like the hugee was wearing a sign "don't hug me" or anything.

I can't imagine how this would impact trans people one way or the other.

Anyone can accuse anyone of anything, whether or is true or not. Just an accusation can destroy someone. People in the public eye usually have money and can be extorted etc. The whole thing is a mess. When I was a teenager, in the 1990s era of sexual harassment, it was always drilled in our heads as men not to ever comment on a woman's appearance, don't touch others in the workplace (outside of safety concerns etc.) no hugs etc., be careful when you are alone in an office or room with a female coworker etc. This is exactly why. Guess famous people didn't get the memo.

Tracii, just because it’s “only a hug” to you doesn’t mean it’s appropriate to force on someone without their consent. I can tell you that I have never in my life hugged someone I didn’t know very well without first asking permission. “Is it ok to give you a hug?” Just takes a second to ask. On the other hand I HAVE known people who are definitely NOT ok with unsolicited physical contact. Maybe that person was a germophobe. Maybe that person was molested or raped and is not ok with any physical contact. No, they weren’t wearing a sign, but I don’t know that forcing people to brand themselves to avoid unwanted physical contact is the answer.

Should it really be on the person to have to tell people “no don’t touch me like that”? That sounds awful close to “she didn’t say no so it couldn’t have been rape”

The only thing I see it doing is waking some more people up....maybe make life a little better for everyone.

Being a crossdresser, I hadn't linked #MeToo to ourselves. If I didn't make that link, how likely is it that a person who rarely thinks about transgendered people will make the link?

My suspicion is that it won't change the average person's view of the transgendered. However, I do find this to be an interesting topic, and I am glad the question was raised.

Sami

I think the great majority of men and women do not associate themselves with the behavior or people you enumerated. Heck, according to what I have seen on the evening news too many people in Alabama would rather see a person with a questionable sexual history over a Democrat elected to office. There are a good number of people who still have negative views of gays and lesbians. People tend to mischaracterize people they do not understand.

I guess I grew up in a different time and all this PC stuff just seems strange to me.
I can't count all the times people have touched me for a host of different reasons and I never felt like my "space" was being invaded.
Nor would I want to involve the police because someone touched me.
I have to wonder if some TG people could actually take somebody getting up in your face with out having a complete mental breakdown.

i agree w/ Tracii. Just a few simple words will let a person know to FO. No need to be loud or make a scene, just firm.

I mean you can just back away and say no because you are in a group of people in this instance.
To insinuate assault is just crazy IMO because a hug or someone touching you isn't an assault.
If it was an assault you would know it trust me I have a lot of experience in that dept.

There was a case of a Transgender person in the news like a month ago. I don't remember the details. I heard it on the radio, on my way into work. I don't usually I don’t listen to the radio.

I don't see anything good coming from this.

A hug being assault? You got to be kidding.

That being said, girls hug, guys don't. Being Transgender this becomes a gray area.

I let my friends and the public make the first move. All my GG friends Hug. My guy friends are different, most shake hands, some of my close friends hug. This is all a show of friendship and love.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Leslie Langford

...by putting us in a better light?

So my question is...given this widespread reprehensible behavior on the part of "normal" males that has tacitly been accepted by society in the past but is now being blown out of the water by women no longer willing to put up with it, can we transgender types now look forward to some sort of validation (and perhaps even overdue respect) for not being that type of jerk, despite our somewhat (ahem!) unusual inclinations regarding clothing choices and the place we occupy on the gender spectrum?

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Everyone not "that type of jerk" gets validation, and they number in the billions. It is difficult to believe someone would make a connection to just our group.

Sorry Leslie, no!

It is just be more respectful to women week.

Sounds harsh but the statement is meant to be supportive.

Times are changing for the acceptance of women and all they stand for as well.

I'm not sure about the Metoo movement being a PR opportunity for anyone trans. But I do believe that many GGs I have met while out and about appear to see us in a benign light; as kind of safe territory. Particularly younger women. But part of this could be due to the misconception that many GGs believe we're all gay, and therefore not a threat (seriously, in a bar a few months ago, three women expressed this to a friend and I...we had to set them straight). Regardless, two other things on this thread concern me. A hug is an assault? Wow. Admittedly, I wasn't there to see if some kind of excessive groping accompanied the hug, but really? Sorry, but in my world, everyone hugs. Guys. Girls. Gurls. But maybe that's just the parts of the planet where I live. Please...let's not equate the perfectly normal human inclination to touch other human beings with the perverse, controlling groping that's making the news these days.

And Leslie, sorry, but I gotta say that your comments about "female interaction or exhibitionism" and that "there might "be a backlash when these kinds of "flirty" women will get called on their own brand of B.S. as well" is ridiculous. So women should be careful to not reveal any parts of their bodies? Perhaps they should all wear sheets or something.

Leslie, no. What is being played out is the wholly unequal mismatch is society in the power balance between men and women. It's what a lot of GG call the patriarchy. Men have set up society for their own benefit, to the large exclusion of women. Some men take this a step further and abuse their position of power. What we are hopefully seeing here, though I don't think that it will actually happen is a rebalancing of this power struggle. This #metoo debate has nothing to do with the TG community largely because, whether we agree with them or not, a very large number of GG still see us as men, which of course many of us are. I've often felt that reading this forum a very large percentage of the posts are written from the viewpoint of a man that has been imbued since birth with all the advantages and sense of entitlement that being born a male in western society gives them.

Likely what I’m about to say does not apply to many of the people in this forum, but I do see how the #metoo movement will NOT help some TGs. I refer to the type of TG who behaves (or dresses) as if he or she wants to be objectified. I refer to the TGs who have said in many posts here throughout the years they want to be dominated by men or they want to be subservient or submissive to men. I don’t know if these were idle fantasies not acted upon, but if it is a TG’s deep or secret desire to be submissive in any way, the desire can’t help but come to the surface if only in the manner of dress and/or behavior - if not at places like the mall, but at TG clubs or other places where men who admire TGS congregate and possibly also where there are GG onlookers who witness the behaviors … and we all know that the behaviors of the few do influence how the many are seen. Sometimes all it takes is seeing a picture of a CDer or a drag queen dressed in a mini-skirt, stilettos, big hair, big boobs, etc, to have everyone in this community lumped into the same boat.

The whole point of #metoo is to give the world a sense of the magnitude of the problem but more importantly, to signal that women have had enough of being treated like some object placed on earth merely for men’s pleasure or men’s need to exert power over women. But, if some TGs are seen as purposely seeking dominant behavior from men, it could have an adverse affect in the eyes of the GGs who witness this. They are likely to think of the TG, "You are not one of us. You seek the type of treatment we are rallying against". It could also continue to give the men who admire TGs a message that is diametrically opposed to what #metoo is all about.

I also agree with Charlotte7. Most men that regular GGs deal with are not in positions of power like the Weinsteins of the world, they therefore do not have extreme power to abuse, and so we do not believe that most men in our lives are predators. Not even most of our male bosses, since most bosses can get fired for behaving the way that men in extreme power or moneyed positions can behave. And since many members here are seen as men by the women in their lives (their wives, sisters, daughters, etc in addition to possibly the SAs or waitresses when they go out dressed), I'm sure they are not seen as sexual predators in the same way as some of the men who have behaved sexually inappropriately.

I participated in the #metoo responses in social media and this was because, of the hundreds upon hundreds of men I have dealt with throughout my life, there were only three who behaved sexually inappropriately. All three when I was under 25. Saying "me too" does not mean that I and women like me believe that all men are like that. In my case, by the time I was 25 I had learned how to quickly stop men in their tracks if they began to behave in a manner that I found objectionable. I was never treated poorly by men who were in authoritative positions (my bosses, professors, etc).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ReineD

The whole point of #metoo is to give the world a sense of the magnitude of the problem but more importantly, to signal that women have had enough of being treated like some object placed on earth merely for men’s pleasure or men’s need to exert power over women. But, if some TGs are seen as purposely seeking dominant behavior from men, it could have an adverse affect in the eyes of the GGs who witness this. They are likely to think of the TG, "You are not one of us. You seek the type of treatment we are rallying against". It could also continue to give the men who admire TGs a message that is diametrically opposed to what #metoo is all about

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I have had a "crash course" in exactly this a few years back. Three of us[two genetic women and myself] were having a private meeting with a couple of powerful politicians in Jacksonville ,Fl. It was a "professional lobbying effort" to do with passing the gender inclusive HRO. Anyway,one of the politicians seemed to "special interest in me" and chose to "chat me up"[told us how very much he enjoyed the shows at Hamburger Mary's,and how good I looked to him,etc] and that wasn't what we were there for! Afterwards,and outside,one of the women gave me an earful about how I didn't properly "shut his advances down" in the way that they do..all the time. I realized after that it was sort of a power game and I appeared to be the weakest one in the room. I know now and have "changed my ways".

On the contrary, I think the #metoo movement is a cautionary moment for us, especially in the workplace. I think as a group we crave acceptance by women and want to become part of their world whether it be dressing around them, talking about makeup, clothes, or shoes, etc. I've read many posts on this forum in which people talk about women they work with and how they want to come out to them or otherwise relate to them on a feminine level. What we might think is friendly girl talk, may actually be perceived as harassment or unwanted conversation of a personal nature.