not being passable

hello all, best wishes to you all. new here and hope for some help. been closeted my whole life. mainly due to the fear of ridicule and being disowned by brother and family. I am 6+ft. tall and over 255. I am in no way feminine looking and am kind of a manly man. my dream is for everyone in the world to just not care and except us all for who we are. anyway I am married in a totally sexless relationship and get to dress 2 to 4 times a week for short periods when alone. I want to go out dressed. I am bi and have thought about going to a gay bar because of the acceptance factor. I am not certain about what my wife would say so I have not told her. in fact this is the first real discussion I have ever had about it. some thoughts please. thanks in advance for the advice

Hi Michelle and welcome to the forum! I can't offer much advice personally so I won't pretend to but I know for a fact you're definitely not alone and it takes a lot of courage to shamelessly be 'us'. That said, many of us do it (shamelessly) and this place does help!

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Originally Posted by michelle68

my dream is for everyone in the world to just not care and except us all for who we are.

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Yeah, not going to happen any time soon.

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anyway I am married in a totally sexless relationship

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How long have you been married? Lots of marriages wind up like that eventually. Few will admit it, though.

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I want to go out dressed. I am bi and have thought about going to a gay bar because of the acceptance factor.

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Remember, it will be assumed you are there to meet someone. So decide before you go, if you intend to hook up with someone.

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I am not certain about what my wife would say so I have not told her.

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Well then, this could be the beginning of the end of your marriage, now, couldn't it. Think seriously about what you wish for, and what reality offers.

I am 6'2" and 200 pounds. I'm also approaching 60, though I look quite a bit younger. I could, be passable, with a full on heavy duty professional makeover, but I doubt I could even get within shouting distance of "attractive"

And I've decided it doesn't matter, because I don't really need to look like a woman. I'm not even trying to be "feminine"

I wear male sweaters, t-shirts, shirts, jackets. With those I wear skirts. Mostly vaguely "kiltish" skirts, though some are a bit more softer and floaty. I also wear hosiery, usually plain opaque stuff, have started wearing some patterned stuff, argyle and check so far, though I am hoping for a party excuse to wear these gorgeous deep purple tights with a shiny paisley motif. I have had mostly full acceptance, fair amount of approval, a very occasional touch of confusion, and only literally a couple of slightly negative interactions. If you just want to wear the clothes, maybe that is the way to go?

If you have never been out in public I wouldn't recommend going to a bar for your first time.
Get used to being out in public first.Kind of like getting your sea legs so to speak.
If you want to go to a gay bar then go in male mode and do some recon and see if its a place you feel comfortable in.
Being a lager size isn't a bad thing heck I have been quite fat and it never stopped me from dressing.
Plenty of large women out in the real world so work on your girly presentation.

Hi Michelle,

If you truly want to go out dressed then a gay bar is a good option because as you said . . . accepting nature. However as Tracii suggested, a bit of recon prior in male mode would be a good thing, pick the night you plan to go and get a sense for the place. Passing . . . to be honest with the exception of a few young, gifted by the genetic goddesses, very few can truly pass. Yes, your size does present an unique challenge but women do come in all shapes and sizes. There are lots of big gals on this site who go out regularly. In the end it comes down to an self acceptance and confidence . . . some call it owning the moment. Once you get to that point, you will find it doesn't matter to you if people see a guy in a dress or not, you are just being you. However, until that time, baby steps . . . practice make-up, presentation, mannerisms, go out a few times to safe venues or perhaps hook up with a local TG support group if one is around. You'll get there it just takes time.

Cheers

Marcelle

Depends what you are really after. I sense a couple of thought here.
If it is just getting out dressed, that is one thing. My opinion is a bar is not the best or safest option, that is just me. Especially... for the first time. When I started going outside the house just over a year ago I went to GLBT friendly bookstores... yea that is soft pedaling around adult stores. Not sleezy ones but depending on your area there are upscale stores that actually have books - no porn magazines - I got one on crossdressing even. Miss Vicky's guide for Boys who want to be Girls or something like that. I don't get out often but suppose the first 6 or 8 times over 10 months that is where I went. Allowed me to build confidence. Absolutely no judging and total acceptance. Friendly clerks, and they would comment / compliment me on shoes, makeup etc. They did suggest going to a gay bar on Drag night, have not done that. Just saying they totally get it and nothing to worry at a store like that. They even have a few trans times both MtF and FtM like breastforms, male package, etc. Just saying some of these stores are respectable. Keep in mind I am saying that now. When starting, and every time for that matter, I was a nervous wreck.

IF... what you are wondering is getting out to a bar to meet or pick up someone, that is entirely different. I think sometimes_miss captured well things to consider here. Don't just do it... be sure of what you want... maybe better to talk with your wife about that first, if things are so precarious already.
Good luck - I can tell you are having a hard time. We are here to chat! :) . Sometimes helps to talk things through and hear what others say, like you are doing here.

Take care
Samantha

Sorry you are struggling with all this, but going dressed to a gay bar without your wife's knowledge? Slippery slope, I'm afraid!
And if the marriage is sexless, consider why- it may be that if you wish to, you can, with help, change it. Oh, and please re-read, Marcelle's posst!

Best wishes to you, Amanda.

Michelle, you mention two things that are totally unrelated to going out. Namely, that your marriage is sexless and that you are bi.

Is is it that you plan on going to a gay bar with the intent to hook up?

no only to be around others much less likely to make me feel out of place. I am faithful to my wife and was only giving back round info

Hi Michelle;
Welcome to the forum, glad you found us.
I also do not go out, as I am not very Fem in appearance.
So I do stay in the "Closet", However I do under dress as
often as I can. As long as you can dress at home, take
advantage of the time.
Rader

Welcome to the forum Michelle.
I would say see of there are some groups you can go to to find like minds. One is here. Try meetups on the internet and see if there are any local groups. I'm in a small town and we have one family oriented LBGT group with about three hundred members.

STOP IT! STOPT IT NOW!
there are FFS surgeons who can along with HRT nake you more then passable , make you a stunner!
I have been to TS beauty paegents and many winners talk about how they were not consider attract are and they were seen as ugly.

There is a show called the swan makeover in the USA and the take a person considered to be unpleasingly looking and make them look like beauty queens.

Welcome Michelle! Glad you found us.

First off, many here are tall, broad-shouldered, big-framed; there are footballers, numerous military or ex-military; many who are very far from reflecting physically how they feel inside - them's the breaks. I too am Bi and in an almost sexless marriage, though I love my wife very much and would not leave her because of that.

If you feel driven to seek sex, and you feel it's causing you deep distress being without it, then I think you should- but my advice is keep that to yourself if you want to stay married.

As for your wish for an accepting world, you already know that isn't happening- but at least here, and among other CDers you can be yourself. I think it would be very healing for you to contact a support or social group in your area- get on the net, post the question here- I guarantee you are not far from others who share your feelings!

big hugs, Nikki

Firstly, this is not about being "passable" for most, it's about being who we are.
Secondly, your size does not dictate whether or not you are passable. Look around you. Are there women your size? Of course there are or you would be relegated to making your own clothes and shoes.

As for your situation at home I'm afraid that's out of my realm. Perhaps you might benefit from talking to a therapist, someone with professional training.

It is not important to be "passable". What is important is to be able to blend in. I did a post about this on my blog.

I go OUT enfemme about sixty times a year. So I have a bit of experience there. If I may.....

I am part of a Crossdresser social and support group. We have an IN meeting every month for those who do not go OUT enfemme. We also have an OUTing every month for those who can "blend". To be able to blend means someone can walk through a busy mall, from one end to the other and be largely ignored. We did this Friday evening. One of the gals is over six feet and around 300 pounds. She attracted NO attention whatsoever because her presentation was right on.

So forget passing.

Try to dissappear by blending in.

Let's face it, how many of us really "pass". At twenty feet maybe, at ten feet, few, at a sales counter maybe zero. But does it matter.

And about your home life. Don't f#€k it up! If you want to improve it, resuscitate it, consider learning how to dance, women love that. Take her out, you as a guy, for dinner and a movie once in a while, like twice a month. Take the trash out without her having to ask. Wash and dry and fold the towels and put them away. Put your dirty dishes in the dishwasher and after it is done, put all of them away. Tell her that you love her and appreciate her. Tell her she looks nice. Ask her advice on something. Listen to her like she is important.

All stuff I covered in my blog.

I love my wife and I would be miserable without her. Not always easy but ALWAYS worth it.

I have never had an SO or wife, but can relate with some of your thread. I am sis foot six, almost seven feet in heels! I have been out the door about 20 times total. I wish there were more very tall GGs around my area, but i seldom see many, especially singles. Like you, I have considered going to a gay bar, though i really do not like being around a lot of alcohol drinking. There is only one gay bar in my region, and in a high crime area, so, I am very cautious about going dressed. Also worried about being hit on by gay guys if i go in male mode!! Maybe you and the wife can go to marriage counseling. I t sounds like you are near a break point. If you and her really would like to improve and save it, counselling may be the last resort.

Nikki,
I can not believe that anyone would advise another married person to have an extra marital affair and hide it from their wife. I find that kind of advice discusting and not suitable to this forum.

perhaps I am not the best person to responds to this- I am 5'8" and 160# and relatively trim. So I cannot understant what you feel. But I do fell too big compared to the 110# 5'5" models... I too envy them.

I'll never be that tiny cute little girl i want to be.

I can dress the part somewhat, and it is fun. But not reality.

I guess you simply cannot change reality. We all have to deal with what we are.

But this part is really important: do realize, that well over 95% of all females feel the same way about their looks and body shape.

The 'pretty little girl image' is a statistical unreality.

I'm going to go and dress up in a cheerleader outfit now, probably do some laundry and drywall finishing. I'll look ridiculous, to most people. But what do most cheerleaders look like, really? Cute as hell, but can the fight fires? Can they do even minor surgery? Plan economies? Protect their families?

They can try, and god love them they probably would. But they are dancers and gymnasts, and lightweight. I was always a small guy, never could fall back on muscle and brawn. I HAD TO FIND SOMETHING ELSE. Because the world, society, including YOU and ME is just unfair.

But we all have things that make up for the inequities. Solace is in the mind, solace is in the soul. First you have to imagine it, then you have to engineer it, then you can be it.

But there will always be jerks and little irritations. Even for the prettiest of little girls. Hey- guess what- we who are so are bigger than little pixies can effect changes just a bit easier (in some ways)

Firstly I do understand the closet, the fear of rejection, the ridicule and the fear of being abandoned by loved ones. We all know these fears well because we have all been there. But it sounds like there are bigger things to worry about than being passable. If you don't tell your wife then you will never know what she has to say about it. You say your marriage is sexless and that your bi and would like to go dressed to a gay bar because it's more accepting. I am not one to judge it is your business but does that mean that you would seek sex at one of these gay bars? If your honest answer is yes then your clearly unhappy in your marriage and should concentrate on fixing it or ending it but that's your personal choice. Cheating is never the first move you should make even if your not getting it at home. I have heard people say that if it's with a guy then it doesn't count as cheating but it does. Maybe try dropping subtle hints about it, then gauge her reaction towards the crossdressing or the bisexuality. As for being passable I know how you feel I think at first we all think about this. For me it has become a bit of an obsession. I have to check,check,check.....check and check myself again in the mirror to make sure I have everything done exactly how I want it. It doesn't matter how big or small you are I think we will always find something or several things about our fem selves that we don't like or wish we could change but we are like it or not genetic males so passing 100% is almost impossible! I do agree with your point about a utophia where everyone is just accepting like in the Samoan Islands where it is not only accepted but encouraged male children are raised as female from a young age dressed in girls dresses and are called fa'afafine. They have been doing that for generations the rest of the world needs to catch up and accept change.

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Originally Posted by michelle68

I want to go out dressed. I am bi and have thought about going to a gay bar because of the acceptance factor. I am not certain about what my wife would say so I have not told her.

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I don't know what you're after exactly, so I'll cover two different scenarios:

1. If you just want a place to go to dressed where people will accept you: a gay bar might be OK, but I don't think you'll have a lot of guys want to hang out with you. Although some gay men are into the Drag Queen vibe (the theatrics, maybe?), this is a far cry from a crossdresser. You might instead look for a LGBTQ-mixed crowd bar to hang out in. As to your wife, you would need to ask her if she is OK with you going to places were the crossdressing is tolerated, or go in secret at your own risk.

2. If you want to go to a gay bar specifically because you want to explore your bisexuality: there was a very long thread here some years back, asking our gay members how their male partners enjoyed the CDing. Most of the respondents said they had as many issues with gay partners as hetero CDers have with their wives. Gay men and hetero women are attracted to men and not women. So my advice would be to go to the gay bar in guy mode if you want to hook up with someone. As to the arrangement you have with your wife, is she OK with you seeking sex outside the marriage, given that your relationship is now platonic? If not, going behind a wife's back is not the best idea.

Hi Michelle. If you really want to go out to a bar, then do your homework, and try to use the web to find a gay or lesbian bar that offers a genteel, upscale vibe and a trans or crossdresser friendly environment.

Or, you could do what I do. I am fully "out" to my wife. Fortunately she is very flexible and liberal, and I have the run of my house and grounds fully dressed (we have privacy fences).

She also actually encourages me to go out with her partially dressed. I spend a lot of time out with her wearing women's skinny jeans, slacks, or leggings, and carrying a small Coach messenger bag. I've never had any problems yet. Yesterday we went to visit my father at the care facility where he lives. I wore an old pair of Victoria's Secret hipster slacks (no longer made, unfortunately) that my wife gave me. I had VS panties underneath of course, and a close fitting men's Aeropostale T shirt on top. No one batted an eye. Then we drove back near home, stopped at a Ross store, and dressed like that I bought a couple pair of women's shorts, a pair of skinny jeans, and a womens T shirt. No one noticed, even when I was away from my wife, picking through the women's jeans and shorts.

I wish the world would accept us too, but the only way you can change the world is one person at a time.

What do you think your wife would say about you dressing as a woman and going to a gay bar? Seriously.

Fix your marriage or get out of it. Dressing as a woman and going to a gay bar is not going to help.

Michelle,

Welcome to the Club (Those of us who would never pass). I'm not into dispensing advice re: marriage relationships, but rocking the boat usually turns out very expensive in all sorts of ways.

M.

sometimes miss's comment- "Remember, it will be assumed you are there to meet someone. So decide before you go, if you intend to hook up with someone."
Is absolutely untrue. The vast majority in a gay bar are there for an evening out. Some will be looking for a hookup, and a polite refusal is all it takes. The guys cruising a gay bar are looking for men, and will more than likely ignore you.
I have been going to gay bars for thirty years, before and after transition. In general, it's like any other bar, but the patrons are MUCH better behaved.