help! I am a lesbian stuck in crossdressing mans body

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But identification as a female does not make one a lesbian. To take on that distinctly descriptive term and throw it around as you are based on some sort of fantasy is simply absurd at best and frankly, it is highly disrespectful. You are not a real lesbian. Take meaningful steps towards transition and perhaps others will buy into your erroneous self-perception (versus your self-perception being less erroneous).

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It's absurd for anyone to identify with their vehicles, i.e. their bodies. We are consciousness, not physical matter. Do you identify with your blood, bones, brains, guts, bodily fluids, lymph, organs etc? You more likely identify with your perceptions, which are part of your consciousness, i.e. your images, feelings and sounds of your body. Physical body parts are ugly, except for the exterior form. As they say, beauty is skin-deep (If I had to identify with matter, I'd rather identify with a well-designed robot, than with body organs, guts etc).

Our consciousness is more real than the physical. The physical is only known through consciousness.

By the way, I'm only sharing these private thoughts here, not outside of this forum.

Sara,
I feel your being a little harsh in your comments, whether your think it's an erroneous self-perception or not is immaterial to feelings we have inside. Maybe we are still denying we are TS , I feel if I were to go through with it I would feel exactly the same way, then I would be nearer to how my mind feels on this issue, the fact I chose to remain male doesn't alter those feelings.
Again if you don't experience them then you won't fully understand it but please don't decry other people if they have those feelings, maybe that is being disrespectful .

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Originally Posted by Matia

I have a male body and I am definitely a lesbian. I am attracted to women, while I perceive my gender a woman too. In reality it means, that sex when I am in a role of a man "hetero relationship" it just doesn't work , or it barely does. While when I live as a woman, and I am perceived as one, sex does work great. I don't think it's about the body at all.

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Yes, but if you tried to have a sexual relationship with a lesbian (not someone who is bisexual), would she be interested?

Admittedly it may be different in Bratislava, lesbians there might be more bisexual. But here, lesbians are not attracted to people who have penises, this is why they identify as lesbian. Hetero woman are interested in male bodies, of course, and bisexual women as well.

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Originally Posted by Teresa

Reine,
I feel you've missed the point of what we're saying, Lela apparently feels the same, our male side is naturally attracted to women and our female side is also attracted, please believe me that's how it feels.

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I believe you, but again, are lesbians attracted to you? No, because they don't see you as lesbian. The word "lesbian" means women who have sex with each other. These women's sexual orientation is such that people who have penises turn them off.

So if you and Lela feel that you are feminine (which is NOT necessarily being a woman BTW), the women who are interested in you at this point in time - while you still have your penises - are not lesbian. They are either hetero or they are bisexual.

Why is this so hard to understand. :p

The word "lesbian" does not just equate to "female gender identity", it equates to "female gender identity" plus "female body".

There's no such thing as a Male Lesbian.

To be a Lesbian you have to be female, if you're living as a man using male parts while totally ignoring the reality of your self it's called denial.
To believe you're some floating conscious free of physical limitations is bordering on Psychosis and I recommend visiting a Psychiatrist.

We each and everyone can claim to be whatever we feel inside and totally reject truth, that way lies madness.

Believe what ever makes you happy but don't expect the vast majority of people to treat you as anything other than delusional.

Teresa have you tried to get referral to the Gender Identity Clinic? I think it would really benefit you. 'You chose to remain male' first is the use of the word chose, most TS don't like that wording second is that you recognise remaining male yet continue to use the term Lesbian which is only a female related term. Look I don't want to dismiss your therapy and what you are doing but in this instance it's the wrong word to use. Lesbian isn't an identifying word it's a descriptive word.
People don't say 'He identifies as Heterosexual, he IS Heterosexual'

LelaK on this occasion for your sake I hope you're just a Troll. If not your current line of thinking will only make you miserable and lonely.


Great post ReineD :)

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Originally Posted by ReineD

Yes, but if you tried to have a sexual relationship with a lesbian (not someone who is bisexual), would she be interested?

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The thing is, just because - I am - lesbian, it doesn't automatically mean other lesbians must be or should be attracted to me. If I am a heterosexual male, it doesn't automatically mean, women will want to have sex with me. So while I may be a lesbian, my partner most likely needs to be Pansexual. Bisexual may also not be interested in trans lesbian the same way hetero or lesbian woman / man may not be.

but saying that being lesbian is about body parts, is a huge misunderstanding of gender in my oppinion.

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LelaK on this occasion for your sake I hope you're just a Troll. If not your current line of thinking will only make you miserable and lonely.

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A troll wearing a pink dress? So people enjoy identifying with their "physical" substance, including the gross interior, rather than with conscious perception of body images, feelings and sounds (I need a confusion emoticon here, but there's no feminine one available apparently). I identify with beauty, not grossness. That makes me a troll?

I used to work for a hard core LESBIAN band, in that they were born lesbians. I was their sound goddess, and a good friend. Being a fully transitioned trans woman would NOT let them ever think of me as a lesbian. I could wear the plaid, and have the attitude, but I was not a lesbian to them. Ever.

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Originally Posted by LelaK

A troll wearing a pink dress? So people enjoy identifying with their "physical" substance, including the gross interior, rather than with conscious perception of body images, feelings and sounds (I need a confusion emoticon here, but there's no feminine one available apparently). I identify with beauty, not grossness. That makes me a troll?

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I hope you are. Some of the stuff you say sounds like either two things
1, you are just having fun or 2, you need some help.

Becky,
I accept Megan may have a point, I accept the term bi-gendered if it makes everyone happy, as I say whatever the chosen label , I know how I feel inside. I don't need to be spoon fed to know what lesbian means, with or without a penis I would still feel the same way.

Yes I did get gender counselling, I accept what I am now the problem is other people still don't accept me fully, if anything is going to drive me mad the acceptance issue is probably the one

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Originally Posted by becky77

I hope you are [a troll]. Some of the stuff you say sounds like either two things
1, you are just having fun or 2, you need some help.

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I didn't come to this forum not to have fun. But fun isn't the main thing I came for. I came to get acceptance, understanding and cameraderie etc. I did need that kind of help, but not the kind you seem to want to believe I need. I don't hear any good reasons to identify with gross physical matter (innards etc that decay over time), as many of you seem to prefer. I don't mean to annoy anyone.

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Originally Posted by Matia

but saying that being lesbian is about body parts, is a huge misunderstanding of gender in my oppinion.

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Then we'll simply have to agree that we will disagree. :)

So tell me, what is the difference between a lesbian and a bisexual woman?

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Originally Posted by I Am Paula

I used to work for a hard core LESBIAN band, in that they were born lesbians. I was their sound goddess, and a good friend. Being a fully transitioned trans woman would NOT let them ever think of me as a lesbian. I could wear the plaid, and have the attitude, but I was not a lesbian to them. Ever.

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That's how my lesbian friends feel as well, especially if a CD/TG has not transitioned. I'm sorry though that they think of you this way. I should think that if any TS has had SRS and is living full time, this would sort of take care of things.

Much ado about nothing. Labels again!

I have to agree with Reine and I Am Paula.

This is hard to get into the details, and keep this thread PG rated.

I never did the physical male/female thing because my identity was female.

Had a Butch Lesbian friend, mostly like a FtM CD, for 1-2 years prior to SRS. We never had sex as she only had sex with women.
After I had SRS we had an on/off relationship and physical sex as two Lesbians. Doing things that only two people with female parts can do. To me this was the ultimate acceptance as a woman.

My partner and I had physical sex as two women that we could not do prior to SRS.

Maybe some of the physical sex could be simulated if one partner still had male parts. But it would have to be purely NON penetrative sex with male to female parts. Would be more like a BI-Sexual then as Lesbian.
Some Lesbians do use toys and such on each other, so I guess one could say they are simulating male/female sex.

Not all are the same. Some Lesbians do not care for the TG/TS or even women that are BI. I would guess that a BI-Sexual female could have a somewhat Lesbian relationship with a TG/TS prior to SRS.

For the proponents of the male Lesbian idea, have any had such relations with female "GG" Lesbians. And not BI-Sexual females.

Georgette,
As far as I know none of my partners have been of that persuasion but that isn't the point of what we're saying, we feel as we do inside and it's totally irrespective of who we've had relationships with, OK the chances of it ever happening are near to zero .

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Originally Posted by Teresa

As far as I know none of my partners have been of that persuasion but that isn't the point of what we're saying, we feel as we do inside and it's totally irrespective of who we've had relationships with, OK the chances of it ever happening are near to zero .

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No one is disputing the way you feel inside. So maybe we're talking in circles because there are two ways to apply the term "lesbian".

1. To women who are in fact lesbian (and to other cis-people), the term applies to cis-women only. You will not find a lesbian who will agree to be in a relationship with someone who has man parts because it is not their orientation.

2. Some non-transitioned TGs believe that the term applies to them as well. They will be believed if they talk among themselves, but not elsewhere.

So why don't we all leave it at that. :)

It's a mixed up muddled up shook up world! A Kafkaesque world where metaphors are taken literally and literalisms are taken metaphorically, where the subjective is indistinguishable from the objective, where "definitions" are ad hoc and arbitrary, where GGs and TSs police the identities of CDs!

No one seems to have noticed that the OP never claimed to be a "male lesbian" but claimed to be a lesbian [a type of woman] stuck in a crossdressing man's body. IOW, a woman stuck in a man's body - a typical description (literal or metaphorical, subjective or objective) of transsexuality.

As for "male lesbians" I don't use that term for myself but I have entertained the idea so I think I know what someone might mean when they use it. It's usually more productive to attempt to understand how others see themselves rather than try to impose my understanding on them. I'm not always consistent with that but it's the ideal I'd like to be able to live up to.