Co-worker approached me today and

[Kimberly Marie Kelly]

and was complaining alot about his boss and co-worker. His boss used to be mine a while back, but I no longer work under him. Anyway I'm straying off my point. He was telling me how another co-worker was telling an outside service man that I'm weird, that I dress femininely, wear makeup and to watch out for me. My friend jumped in and said that I'm a very nice person that I have no malice towards anyone and that I go out of my way to help anyone when asked, just because he wear's different attire does not make me a bad person.

I said thank you for the compliment's he gave me. But the person who was denigrating me to this service vendor, I've known is homo-phobic. Ever since I started to wear makeup to work and start wearing feminine blouse's etc. he's started making comments and laughing, but he tired of making comments because it's been month's since I started and his comments had no effect on me. But now he has resorted to talking behind my back.. When will people ever grow up..

[Michelle 51]

That's too bad Kimberly and i know that it can hurt sometimes even when we pretend that things like that don't bother us or try not to let it bother us.I guess you have to weigh that against how good you feel by letting your femme side out on your job site.I commend you for being who you want to bb.

justabit

[Gabrielle Hermosa]

...But now he has resorted to talking behind my back.. When will people ever grow up..

Some people will never grow up or change. They won't because they simply don't want to and they're annoyed with anyone/anything that doesn't conform to the perfect little world that exists in their small, narrow mind.

It sounds to me like this homophobic co-worker of yours is seeking approval from others. He's fishing for a response like "yeah - what's up with that freak..." I hope he does not receive the response he's looking for.

You've got a lot of strength to be able to express yourself like you do at work. How far does your personal strength go?

Would it be possible for you to start up a friendly conversation with Mr. Homophobe? I'm talking a truly friendly-natured conversation - nothing sarcastic or too faky sounding. What would happen if you just tried to strike up a conversation about anything that you feel would not make him uncomfortable? I say the uncomfortable thing because if he's a homophobe, the last thing you want to do is to make him feel as if you're coming on to him (even if you are clearly not). It is probably best to attempt this within an earshot of other workers just in case.

If you think that is at all a possibility, give it a try. Give it time - a little conversation here, a little there. Never talk badly about this person to anyone else. If he doesn't go all homophobic on you, you might actually start to slowly change his mind about differences he does not currently accept. It's hard to hate someone that you start to enjoy the company of.

If you're an enjoyable person to be around, let it be known to Mr. Homophobe. Perhaps his homophobia starts to melt away, if only a little.

Of course, trying to chat with him might only make things worse. It is a roll of the dice. The pay-off could be priceless though - turning a hater in to an understander.

[sterling12]

If you ever get some actual PROOF that he is denigrating you to others, and making your gender an issue when there is none; I would try and find a person(s) to testify to this fact to management. It will not go well for him!

People can be stupid and rude....and, sometimes there are consequences for such behavior.

Peace and Love, Joanie

[geri-tg.]

I hate this simple answer but I think never.We will always be judged.

[paulaN]

I say stay the hell away from him. And if he gets too homophobic behind your back,then report him. Ask you friends at work to help you by letting you know if he is bashing you at work. Then bust his sorry ass.

[Kimberly Marie Kelly]

asked if I was transitioning (previous post), she said at that time,that if people are making comments behind my back that I find offensive that I should let her know and she will talk with that person or person's about it. So maybe I should mention it to her, partly because he is talking with an outside service rep and making disparaging remarks about me to that person, which reflects on my companies reputation, not just mine.

What do you all think? Should I or shouldn't I, that is the question?

Here is how I was dressed today, see attached picture..

[Angie G]

Some people wii never grow up Kimberly just keep being you hun. You a beautiful person and if that jerk can't see that well we all know what he can do to himself.
Angie

[Ediosa]

I have to agree with you. You must report him. He is affecting the company cause he is making a bad remarks about you to a vendor. That vendor could decide to not use your company anymore. Therefore, he is affecting the companies money prospect and in this economy it is not a real good thing to lose a vendor. Second, he is affecting the companies climate. He is not affecting you, but he is affecting others by his stupid remarks. He needs to be talken too just for that reason. Affecting company environment is not a good thing to do in these days also. Lowering environment and possible loss of a vendor(means bad things will happen to him), he deserves nothing better. Tell the manager and HR about this situation and have your friends tell them also about what this jerk is saying.

My

[trannie T]

Some people do grow up. . .when their butt is in a chair in the human resources office and they are responding to harassment charges.

[sandra-leigh]

another co-worker was telling an outside service man that I'm weird, that I dress femininely, wear makeup and to watch out for me.

That would appear to meet the legal definition of slander.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libel

(In Canada, the legal term would be "defamatory libel")

You have a perfect right to tell HR that you have reason to believe that the person is slandering you and that you want the slander to stop. For example, I bet the co-worker is not a person who is authorized to make statements on behalf of the company on personnel matters, so even if the co-worker sincerely believed everything said to the vendor, the co-worker will be told to cease and desist and to go through official channels if the co-worker has a complaint about your behaviour.

[Raven Wynter Rayne]

I say You should try to let this person get to know You by talking with Him. You may never gain Him as a friend, but maybe sometime He may hear someone saying something about You and He will be the one standing up for You!! Who knows what is in His closet?? If You should go this route do have others around to be safe, if He will not change His ways, then go to H.R.

[Beth785]

Some people never grow up. They make themselves feel better by belittling others. It's high school all over again.

What he is doing to you is harassment, plain and simple. If you can, document it and take it to an HR representative. If they won't do anything, take it to the EEOC.

This will not stop until you can take a stand. It can hurt your ability to perform your job, and can also affect your ability to find a new job if the need ever arises.

We are here for you when you need us!

[Jess_cd32]

Thats a tough call whether to go to HR or not and report this jerk.

I'd maybe approach HR and say something like "I enjoy working here, I like my fellow co-workers but this one person is making disparaging remarks to people outside of this business and thats not doing any of us any good".
Think it out and either approach HR, which will cause further resentment on the jerks part, or have a talk with that individual to stop on a one to one basis (with a friend within earshot).

Let him know HR is already behind you.
I would think HR would rather have it settled this way, then they know it was a mutual worked out change of attitude, not a forced HR behaviour change.
Going direct to HR will kill any chance you have of ever truly getting along with this guy, not that you may want to, but you do work together.
Good luck.

[sandra-leigh]

Think it out and either approach HR, which will cause further resentment on the jerks part, or have a talk with that individual to stop on a one to one basis (with a friend within earshot).

Let him know HR is already behind you.
I would think HR would rather have it settled this way, then they know it was a mutual worked out change of attitude, not a forced HR behaviour change.

Last week I went to HR after someone had repeatedly told me to get a hair cut. I could have pulled the person aside for a private talk, but applying a LART is not my responsibility.

Think of it this way: if it was a plain case of male "sexual harassment" against a female, then the female is not responsible for trying to trying to negotiate an end to the harassment with the male. And what Kimberly describes sure sounds like a case of gender harassment.

The policy in my (government) workplace is made clear to supervisors: that if anyone reports a discrimination issue to any supervisor, or the supervisor witnesses any case of discrimination, then that that supervisor becomes personally responsible for intervening (if witnessing) and for taking the situation up the line (either way). When I say "personally", I mean that if the supervisor fails to act, then the supervisor is them-self considered to have contributed to the workplace "permitting" the situation to continue, and risks fines and lawsuits and even jail time and the organization will not defend them. Intervention or action on reported or witnessed problems is mandatory for each supervisor, no matter whom is involved -- even if it means taking a complaint about your own boss or about the division head upwards, and even if the offended party is a guest or a contract janitor or works for a completely different sub-group.

Thus, in my organization at least, it is not the offended party's responsibility to talk to the offender and "try to work out the situation": people like Kimberly are not trained in how to talk through such situations -- the other person might get angry or violent or feel personally threatened. And unfortunately, the other person often thinks that what they are doing is "right", and often interprets a lack of management/HR action as tacit support of either the viewpoint itself or of the "right of free speech".


Yes, there is a possibility that the offender might resent that the matter was taken to "the authorities" rather than dealt with "in person". That can be especially an issue in groups such as police officers who may have an "unwritten code" that difficulties are dealt with directly, person to person, and where someone who files a complaint might be seen as violating the code of comrade and might be seen as not being a "team player", especially if there is a perceived disconnect between "management" and staff (e.g., management has desk jobs and the rank and file our out exposing themselves to danger.) I don't have a ready answer for what to do in such situations: I'm not an HR person.

[onowic]

That would appear to meet the legal definition of slander.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libel

(In Canada, the legal term would be "defamatory libel")

You have a perfect right to tell HR that you have reason to believe that the person is slandering you and that you want the slander to stop. For example, I bet the co-worker is not a person who is authorized to make statements on behalf of the company on personnel matters, so even if the co-worker sincerely believed everything said to the vendor, the co-worker will be told to cease and desist and to go through official channels if the co-worker has a complaint about your behaviour.

Better idea. Go to HR, off the record, tell them you appreciate the understanding and support that they have given you but word has gotten back to you of the above situation. You understand that they can't really put a muzzle on everyone in the company and you are concerned about what is being said affecting the company in a negative way. Ask the HR person for their personal opinion of if they think it will be an issue and if you should stop to appease this person and keep the word from getting out to clients and vendors. Even if they say yes, you don't have to stop, it's just an opinion, and I would be stunned if they did say yes. And that way you have brought it to their attention, informally, so their is no paperwork saying you complained and they can handle it informally.

Personally though I'd go up to the guy, tell him what he is saying about you behind your back, especially to vendors, has gotten back to you, and both fellow employees and the vendors think he's an idiot and an ass.

[pinkeverything]

Last week I went to HR after someone had repeatedly told me to get a hair cut. I could have pulled the person aside for a private talk, but applying a LART is not my responsibility.

Think of it this way: if it was a plain case of male "sexual harassment" against a female, then the female is not responsible for trying to trying to negotiate an end to the harassment with the male. And what Kimberly describes sure sounds like a case of gender harassment.

The policy in my (government) workplace is made clear to supervisors: that if anyone reports a discrimination issue to any supervisor, or the supervisor witnesses any case of discrimination, then that that supervisor becomes personally responsible for intervening (if witnessing) and for taking the situation up the line (either way). When I say "personally", I mean that if the supervisor fails to act, then the supervisor is them-self considered to have contributed to the workplace "permitting" the situation to continue, and risks fines and lawsuits and even jail time and the organization will not defend them. Intervention or action on reported or witnessed problems is mandatory for each supervisor, no matter whom is involved -- even if it means taking a complaint about your own boss or about the division head upwards, and even if the offended party is a guest or a contract janitor or works for a completely different sub-group.

Thus, in my organization at least, it is not the offended party's responsibility to talk to the offender and "try to work out the situation": people like Kimberly are not trained in how to talk through such situations -- the other person might get angry or violent or feel personally threatened. And unfortunately, the other person often thinks that what they are doing is "right", and often interprets a lack of management/HR action as tacit support of either the viewpoint itself or of the "right of free speech".


Yes, there is a possibility that the offender might resent that the matter was taken to "the authorities" rather than dealt with "in person". That can be especially an issue in groups such as police officers who may have an "unwritten code" that difficulties are dealt with directly, person to person, and where someone who files a complaint might be seen as violating the code of comrade and might be seen as not being a "team player", especially if there is a perceived disconnect between "management" and staff (e.g., management has desk jobs and the rank and file our out exposing themselves to danger.) I don't have a ready answer for what to do in such situations: I'm not an HR person.

This is a well written post. I appreciate the time and thoughtfulness required to respond to the original posters dilemma.

For what it's worth, internal office politics are almost always best dealt with by using HR. If you value your position and wish to boost the esteem that your coworkers hold for you...use HR. I certainly wouldn't risk a confrontation with the offender. It will allow the offender to backtrack, deceive, organize a defense, or worse...an offense against you.

It's best to nip it in the butt while it's fresh, in my opinion.

[JoAnne Wheeler]

Get yourself a small tape recorder and tape him saying these things - if you are able to get it on tape what he says about you, then you have two choices: 1) confront him and ket him know that you have him on tape and that if you ever hear of him saying anything unkind toward you to anyone, then you will take it up with management or the civil authorities; 2) by-pass him and go directly to management and the civil authorities

JoAnne Wheeler

[sandra-leigh]

Get yourself a small tape recorder and tape him saying these things - if you are able to get it on tape what he says about you, then you have two choices: 1) confront him and ket him know that you have him on tape and that if you ever hear of him saying anything unkind toward you to anyone, then you will take it up with management or the civil authorities; 2) by-pass him and go directly to management and the civil authorities

I would not recommend that approach: it becomes too much like "blackmail"; and it relies upon the strategy of Kimberly actually catching the person in the act -- the person would have been unlikely to talk that way to the vendor about Kimberly when Kimberly was present.

Different HR departments have different standards of evidence before they will act. The HR department where I am would act upon a uncollaborated report, even if the "action" only consisted of pulling the person in to "review" with them what acceptable bounds were.

[EryLynn]

I have to agree with Tess-Leigh.

Even if he dares make comments in front of you, which he'd probably NOT do (he's a coward, otherwise he'd have approached you directly) and trying to tape him, strikes me as something you would see on CSI or some other police-drama type show.

Even if the tape were to be presented in "court" the question of "legality" may cause more problems than it's likely to resolve. The question of "goading" may lure it's nasty head.

But that aside, you don't know what his reaction would be if you were to confront him trying to tape him. You may be pouring gasoline on an ember.... great if you quench it, but look out if you don't.

While your picture and appearance is NOT offensive to anyone here, it's because we're not alienated nor "phobic" about it. In fact, I'd wager that there are a couple of us who secretly (and maybe not so secretly) envy you.

However, to the average homophobic "Joe Anybody" in mainstream US society... you are pushing the boundaries of male/female attire and appearance. While here you're complaining (preaching) to the choir, out there there are some devout and deeply canalized individuals who see you and the rest of us as some evil presence to be snuffed out.

I'm not saying you should give up, nor run in fear, but to understand that as more of us venture out into the open (and apologies for the metaphor), we'll gain more and more acceptance. But until then we will continue to discover individuals who are against us and we should keep a wary distance from them. Sadly, there ARE instances of sisters who have paid the ultimate price for their beliefs.

By all means you should go to HR and at least have a talk with them. That alone may suffice to reassure you, or you may be asked more matter-of-factly if you are transitioning or not, at which point you have a decision to make.

Sometimes, whether we like it or not, you must go along with the main stream of things, while maintaining your individuality. Kind of like driving a Right Hand Drive car in a Left Hand Drive country... you're ok as long as you go along with traffic. Try to drive RHD style on a LHD road and all you're doing is asking for a head-on collision.

EryLynn

[Billijo49504]

If HR can't stop the jerk from slandering you, maybe a lawyer can stop him. We had a general supervisor that called a masculan looking female a dyke. She and her husband sued him and GM. GM disavowed him and when they had proof of his remark, he was retired, quickly. On Tuesday he said he was working Saturday and on Thursday we heard that was his last day...BJ

[Jennifer Cox]

I say stay the hell away from him. And if he gets too homophobic behind your back,then report him. Ask you friends at work to help you by letting you know if he is bashing you at work. Then bust his sorry ass.

[MarcieM]

The question is - are you really surprised that someone is making comments about you?
Sure, you can report him and whatever, but this may very well turn out to be the kind of guy who waits for you on a dark parking lot with a tire iron. Who wins then?

[Lora Olivia]

He was telling me how another co-worker was telling an outside service man that I'm weird, that I dress femininely, wear makeup and to watch out for me. My friend jumped in and said that I'm a very nice person that I have no malice towards anyone and that I go out of my way to help anyone when asked, just because he wear's different attire does not make me a bad person.

Maybe your friend and you should discuss this with your HR lady. I say this only because it involves an "outsider". Otherwise I would probably try to ignore this and give him more rope to hang himself with. Even though gender identity and expression are not protected everywhere what is a fact is that harassment is not permitted and this is harassment!!

[Sally2005]

I've had to report 'stuff' that others did at work before (not related to gender though)... your only choice is to tell the HR person, proof or not. You can do it such that it is recoreded, but doesn't make a huge case. If you really want this person gone, the fact that he told a customer should be cause for immediate action (it would be pretty easy for the HR person to interview the friend of yours or even the customer)...you know, even the customer may have a responsibility to report it to their management because their company may have a policy against it. The other thing to do, is politely ask the HR person for a copy of the report for your own records. You want to keep detailed records should anything impact you or your work. It is a pain, but keeping records will win any dispute long before you ever need to go to court...just do it discreetly so as not to appear to be a trouble maker. Hopefully it will never come to that.