Transformation services selling acceptance?

[DaphneGrey]

I Have looked at many transformation services online but have never been to one, I tried making a couple of appointments over the years but they were cancelled for one reason or another at the request of the service, so I never actually had the transformation experience.

Having gone out on my own, I have gotten everything I needed, from Bra fittings to makeup, salon services, and so forth. I know I live in a liberal part of the US for which I am thankful, and perhaps some girls are not as lucky. But it seems to me if you are honest polite and discrete you can get everything you need and not have to pay what I have come to call the "I understand you surcharge"


My attitude is this, These services with some exceptions are ripping our community off, and I for one am tired of people telling me how wonderful and understanding they are, and how they are open minded, and oh I love you all and I can make your femme dreams a reality. Just give me $200.00 of your hard earned dollars or more and I will be happy to do what would cost $50.00 at a makeup store.


I of all people understand the fears and doubts of being gender variant, I know it is hard to take those first steps. Please don't misunderstand, I am not calling into question our desires here only the need.


Please post any thoughts you may have on this subject.

[Sarasometimes]

Hi Daphne,
I agree wholeheartedly. I have tried 3 different transformation women.
The first one tells me during our consult that she has contacts at major stores and that I can try on and buy what I want, she is told about my limited budget. She said that she can quickly make me up and get us out the door. Her rate for everything was $100/hr. When she glued fake nails on my fingers it cost $100/hr. If we were shopping, $100/hr. It cost me $300 to get out of her door. She made me feel that if I rushed her or asked to skip any detail I would be read instantly. To parahprase, it didn't ge better.
The next service was at the same rate but I had learned to go to salons for the prep work and just had her help me with deportment. She, I must admit was good concise and even helped me get my fake nails off without any extra charge and she wasn't the one that did them. My only fault with her was going rate of $100/hr.
Lastly was that Long island service where I was insulted for havng a human hair wig styled (just the day before ) in such a way that no LI woman would ever wear it. Miraculously she put a hiar clip in it and it was then deemed fine. She made me up to got shopping and then asked if I wanted her to wear makeup (No problem, I want to blend by wearing full makeup and going out with a friendthat isn't even waring lip gloss). her rates and prices went up from her website rates when I got there. She had a couple of dogs in the area where we were working and said repeatedly that , all her clients love her dogs. She took me to a store to shop for a fancy dress or gown and just picked out ones she wanted to wear. They weren't even in my size. She kept on asking if I tried them on would I buy one. I said let me try one and we can see. i managed to get to try on one she wanted that would never have worked since it showed my chest hair and fit way too tight.
Sorry for rambling but you are right when you say they claim to be friends of our community but they are all business when you show up.
The good news for me now is that I can now enjoy the same things GGs experience for the same rates they pay. I can only encourage others here to try the same route. If you want to feel accepted, go to a mainstream salon and pay a fair price to be treated like a lady. I have had wonderful otuings where fellow salon clients have chich-chattted, complemented me on my hair, nail color, makeup, shoes...asked me where I got a piece of clothing...showed me gowns at David's they think might look good on me... and likewise asked to try one I may have tried on.
Some here may have little choice, but I know I wish I skipped trying these places in general. Sara

[Kate Simmons]

I guess it depends on just how desparate one is as to whether they are willing to be taken advantage of in this way. I'm just surprised some of the "as seen on TV" hucksters haven't stumbled on this yet. "Get your handy, dandy look like a woman kit for $19.95. But wait, call in the next three minutes and get two kits for the price of one." Only a matter of time I think. Besides we do tend to be gullible.

[Diane Elizabeth]

There are some of us out here that don't have the funds to splurge at the rate of $100/hr. Also, for me, I am not comfortable enough to go to a salon. I have let my hair grow out and would like to get it styled so I can wear it in a male form for work and a female form when I can dress. Not sure how to approach a salon about that or what price tag to expect.

[michelle64]

i agree totally...ive been out for so long it is no concern of mine anymore where i shop...i use to spend the 50 bucks for makeovers at mac cosmetics and such but found i can do better myself (experience)..i do not have any trouble "passing" which seems to be of great concern to many here...i still believe confidence and attitude is the most needed ingredient to "pass" for those still concerned with such silly ideals...this topic has always been a pet peave of mine along with acceptance..i just do not understand why some girls are so engrossed with these ideals when they should be concerned about learning to do their own make-up and such..oh well...explains why some of the gender organizations will never get a dime of my money...good post..about time somebody else figures out the CD community is easy to rip off

[JulieC]

Also, for me, I am not comfortable enough to go to a salon. I have let my hair grow out and would like to get it styled so I can wear it in a male form for work and a female form when I can dress. Not sure how to approach a salon about that or what price tag to expect.

Try a salon not in your hometown. Why? Because nobody will know you, and if they think you're a little green splotch from Pluto it won't matter. If they start laughing at you the instant you ask your questions, you simply walk out. They're shallow, narrow mindedness is meaningless to you.

You can call ahead too. Be specific about what you want, and be specific in asking for costs, etc. You approach a salon about these things in the same way you approach any other business. You've got questions, you've got money, they've got answers, and they want your money.

[JoAnne Wheeler]

Just do it on our own ! Why should we discriminated one more time by

having to pay these surcharges ? I said and I say again, lets just do it on

our own - Avoid these places !


JoAnne Wheeler

[tamarav]

[SIZE=4]I guess I will be the one to post an opposing view.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4][/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]I run a transformation service, my standard non-specific rate is $60/hr. I have a list of services on my web site that are package deals that include wigs and makeup kits and such. My opposition to some of your statements is in reference to your objection to their rates. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=4][/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]If I depended on transformations only, I would end up working very, very little. I work in salons on other "non-transformation" clients all the time and base my rates off standard shop rates. We charge $100 an hour for color correction, something most of us don't ever need, or know anything about, but that is the going rate. Makeup can depend on the artist and the products used, but $50 to $100 is the norm around here.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4][/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]I have spent 4x the average rate of time trying my best to makeup a male face into an apparently female face, and that is on a package rate that does not increase if it takes me longer. Think of flat rates in an auto repair place, same thing. Generally in a salon if it takes way over the standard amount of time, the cost goes up. If I do a spiral perm that takes two of us 5 hours total, the client is charged at least $300. That is the norm.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4][/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]Another point I got across to one of my transforamtion clients, when he objected to my flat $60 per hour rate I asked what his hourly bill rate was to his clients for his expertise. As an attorney he said $120 an hour. As soon as he said that he realized that I should be paid a rate that reflected the level of skill and training needed to do my "job".[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4][/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]Not that a lot of you need a service to help you, but a lot of my clients do not belong to this forum, are scared to death, would not step into a salon for any reason, and many just want someone to assure them that they are ok. I have had clients pay for entire days just to talk and get pointers on how to dress, some even taking notes. We are not all alike. There is a lot of insecurity that many of you have overcome.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4][/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]When I was a puppy CD I paid for a transformation with Henry in San Francisco at the rate of $200 hr. It was worth every minute that he spent and to this day I try to recreate some of the techniques that he showed me. Do I regret spending $400 on the service? To a certain point yes because now I know how to do it but back then I made more appointments with him. It was worth every penny at that time.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4][/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]I am so proud that so many of you have the ability to walk into settings and make your needs known, but there are also a huge number of our sisters that still feel that they are alone. They obviously will not be speaking here since most of them think that forums such as this one are designed to sway them and push them into making rash decisions.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4][/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]What do you charge for your services in your drab job? Are they justified? Did it take you 20 minutes to learn how to do that job? I seriously doubt it.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4][/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]Just my 47 cents worth..[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4][/SIZE]
[SIZE=4][/SIZE]

[Sarasometimes]

[SIZE=4]I guess I will be the one to post an opposing view.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4][/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]I run a transformation service, my standard non-specific rate is $60/hr. I have a list of services on my web site that are package deals that include wigs and makeup kits and such. My opposition to some of your statements is in reference to your objection to their rates. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=4][/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]If I depended on transformations only, I would end up working very, very little. I work in salons on other "non-transformation" clients all the time and base my rates off standard shop rates. We charge $100 an hour for color correction, something most of us don't ever need, or know anything about, but that is the going rate. Makeup can depend on the artist and the products used, but $50 to $100 is the norm around here.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4][/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]I have spent 4x the average rate of time trying my best to makeup a male face into an apparently female face, and that is on a package rate that does not increase if it takes me longer. Think of flat rates in an auto repair place, same thing. Generally in a salon if it takes way over the standard amount of time, the cost goes up. If I do a spiral perm that takes two of us 5 hours total, the client is charged at least $300. That is the norm.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4][/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]Another point I got across to one of my transforamtion clients, when he objected to my flat $60 per hour rate I asked what his hourly bill rate was to his clients for his expertise. As an attorney he said $120 an hour. As soon as he said that he realized that I should be paid a rate that reflected the level of skill and training needed to do my "job".[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4][/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]Not that a lot of you need a service to help you, but a lot of my clients do not belong to this forum, are scared to death, would not step into a salon for any reason, and many just want someone to assure them that they are ok. I have had clients pay for entire days just to talk and get pointers on how to dress, some even taking notes. We are not all alike. There is a lot of insecurity that many of you have overcome.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4][/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]When I was a puppy CD I paid for a transformation with Henry in San Francisco at the rate of $200 hr. It was worth every minute that he spent and to this day I try to recreate some of the techniques that he showed me. Do I regret spending $400 on the service? To a certain point yes because now I know how to do it but back then I made more appointments with him. It was worth every penny at that time.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4][/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]I am so proud that so many of you have the ability to walk into settings and make your needs known, but there are also a huge number of our sisters that still feel that they are alone. They obviously will not be speaking here since most of them think that forums such as this one are designed to sway them and push them into making rash decisions.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4][/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]What do you charge for your services in your drab job? Are they justified? Did it take you 20 minutes to learn how to do that job? I seriously doubt it.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4][/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]Just my 47 cents worth..[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4][/SIZE]
[SIZE=4][/SIZE]

Tamarav,
I agree with you and my rather lengthy post ittended to point out my experiences with these services that claim to be part of our community but when you use them they are often over priced and rude or decieving in thier approach. Firstly, $60/hr. is a far cry from $100/hr. Forty percent off or 166% more. You also mentioned that if you did only M to F transformations you would work a lot less and need to charge more. That would be true if you think that just because you work less hours you should be paid more. I know from just hearing about your work ethic that is not your approach.
Now lets agree for the moment that $100 is a fair price for M to F transformation time. Clients should at the least be dealing with licensed hair and makeup people (often times not, unfair to professionals like you), and to be treated respectfully and not told one thing on the phone and find a totally different situation when we arrive. In LI I was assured she new the area and all I needed to do was relax. The first mall we go to doesn't have the stores she thought they did. If one of us expects a personal shopping experience they should advocate for us not question us repeatedly as to whether or not we will buy something we haven't even seen let alone tried on.
If I were in your neck of the woods I would seek you out for help because you are the real deal. Not because you dress, but because you would give good service and are reasonable. As far as the rate for color correction, that is a highly technical skill and great colorists are worth every penny. I also would expect that that price applies to all clients. By definition your are repairing a previous problem which is often times a costly service. Just see what a mechanic will charge to finish a job a backyard mechanic first started.
Sara

[CharleneT]

I think this discussion is missing the point just a little. There are good businesses and bad businesses .... the rates quoted sound fine to me, you are asking for professional help after all. The trick is to ensure that you GET a good service. Are there services out there taking advantage of people who do not know what they are doing or what to expect ? Probably ! Anytime there is a socially marginalized group, there will be those who try and prey on them. Try and research who you are thinking about seeing - or find one that you can afford the travel to reach (where you have found out that the service is good/great).

C.

[jruiz]

That would be true if you think that just because you work less hours you should be paid more. I know from just hearing about your work ethic that is not your approach.

I think that you are missing one point here... Part of the service is to have a safe and comfortable/discrete environment for CDs. It means not servicing GGs.

It she doesn't charge for this difference, she could be out of business pretty quick. I agree on her charging more while bringing a more comfortable environment.

The only transformation service I've ever been was in Mexico, and it was a great experience. It's run by a marriage (he, of course, is a CD), and the wife is the makeover artist. They charge very little for the entire transformation service (about 50$), and it includes, using wigs, shoes, clothes or whatever you need from their site.

They run parties and keep a very healthy (I'd dare to say "family friendly") environment. They even have a CD friendly taxi driver, and have a locker service.

What I've found from some "specialized sites" the Internet is sometimes just ridiculous expensive. Shoes, regular clothes, forms, etc too overpriced, and they sometimes don't even post pictures of the real items. Don't get the point of buying in these places over the Internet

I guess that it just depends. It's up to everyone to decide to expend their money in whatever makes them feel comfortable.

[vjaducd]

Dear Tammy,
Looking to your detailed description ,I have an imression that you are the only genunien person will give justice to our requirements & fantasy enjoyable. Cost may not be the factor against your efforts/hard work & offcourse the time spend b/h it. Pl.give your comments / advise.
Thanks,
vjaducd

[DaphneGrey]

I can understand and appreciate charging market rates for services, and as a tradesperson I understand charging what you are worth.

I have the darkest shadow I have ever seen, and it took the SA at MAC like a minnute to cover it. Conturing my nose and cheek bones takes about twenty seconds. I doesn't seem to me that working on a man is any more difficult than a woman.

[Tal'Aura]

My attitude is this, These services with some exceptions are ripping our community off, and I for one am tired of people telling me how wonderful and understanding they are, and how they are open minded, and oh I love you all and I can make your femme dreams a reality. Just give me $200.00 of your hard earned dollars or more and I will be happy to do what would cost $50.00 at a makeup store.

Jolan Tru,

I wouldn't be surprised if these services are owned and operated by some of our "sisters". Everything is for sale, even friendship... That's how our materialistic world works. I think people who use such services doesn't deserve anything else than to be ripped off by those parasites.

[LisaElizabeth]

Daphne,
I have been to a couple of 'Transformation salons' and at least here in the midwest they charge the same for me as for a female, for a makeover. I found it surprising, because of the extra time needed in order to hide a beard, contour my face and hide some of my male traits.
Now, I have avoided the 'salons' that offer these services for 2x or 3x the price have paid for the same thing. But there is always someone that will pay the price, otherwise they wouldn't remain in business. I think it is most likely CD's that are new and fearful and possibly feel they have to PAY for the silence of the salon about their little hobby.
Maybe not...
But If we don't patronize the really expensive places they will go out of business!!
Huggs,
Lisa E