Non Transitioning Transsexual.

[marla01]

If the term transseuxal is inclusive of those who are not at odds with their physical birth sex, then I would suggest the word has been totally redefined, perhaps even scarily so.

My understanding of the term (and I have been active in the T* community for 20+ years) is that the need to change, or at least dsyphoria with one's physical birth sex is the defining characteristic of transsexual.

As such, while no-op transseuxal is quite possible (dysphoria with one's sex but not changing one's sex), one cannot assume all males who are women or females who are men are ipso facto transseuxals. Many, perhaps most, such transgendered individuals have no dysphoria with their physical sex and therefore should not be considered transseuxal.

Certainly, I am uncomfortable with having the term transsexual be expanded to include myself.

Marla

[María José]

Sorry but this was not asked to cause an arguement.

I firmly believe that there is somewhere between being a CD and a TS. I would put myself in that place and all I asked was does anyone else feel like this.

I disagree. There is nothing between a transexual and a crossdresser. Well, there is people who don´t kwow were he/she is, but definitions are clear.

[karmatic1110]

I think more variation is quite possible. I know quite a few people who wouldn't fall into either category neatly. I personally transitioned and am non-op.

Some people have very little gender dysphoria but I would still consider them falling withing the transgendered realm. I know for me that I didn't wear a single piece of women's clothing until after I began transitioning. Then again, I am pretty butch :P

[KarenCDFL]

I happen to agree with Vicky whole heartedly!

I personally fit into the NTT category (thats if I wanted to be pigeon-holed).

I know how I feel inside.
I know how I feel when all dolled up and feminine.
I have been through counseling and I have confirmed the above.

The outside does not match the inside and there is nothing I can do or will do about that other than enjoy dressing up as often as I please (with my accepting wife). Maybe I will be born right in my next life!

No matter what anyone says with all of their buzzwords and labels, this is how I have decided to live out the rest of my life and that is all there is to it. And that does not change any of the facts.

There is so much hatred in the world using racist labels, religious labels and gender labels. You would think that the people that have accepted the fact that there are gender issues in their lives would be more enlightened then the rest of the world.

Just my 1 cent ... Lost the other cent in the Market!

[Kelsy]

If the term transseuxal is inclusive of those who are not at odds with their physical birth sex,

Certainly, I am uncomfortable with having the term transsexual be expanded to include myself.

Marla

I Have a question!! For a man to desire to wear woman's clothes, to go out and maybe even desire to pass as a woman, Isn't that man at odds with his birth sex ?? Most men acting as men do not desire these things? The only exclusion that I can truly understand is the man who is a sexual fetishist!!! Personaly I dress as a woman because I feel like a woman, I see myself that way, but that has evolved. I desire physical changes and hormones because I am uncomfortable as a man! The only things that keep me from transitioning are my surrounding life circumstances and a whole lot of fear!!

Kelsy

[robyn1114]

There are many different levels of transgendered, just as there are different terms to describe us, but none is better then the other just different. The important thing is find happiness within yourself regardless of the label society wants to put on us.

For a man to desire to wear woman's clothes, to go out and maybe even desire to pass as a woman, Isn't that man at odds with his birth sex ?? Kelsy

I don't entirely agree with that. Many Cd's have a strong sense of their femininity and have a desire/need to express that side of themselves, but at the same time live a happy and fulfilling life as a man. Sure it might not be the social norm, but I don't think they're really at odds with their birth sex.

[Ashlie Marie]

It is funny how this topic has come up a couple dozen times in these forums over last couple of weeks. Labels suck we all should agree on that right? Maybe I am wrong. If it comes too it I think Crossdresser is such a 1970's term LOL TG or trangender is the common to what I have been hearing. My therapist keeps throwing around this term transgenderist Wiki state its a Lifetime Pre-op and since I am starting hormones shortly and live fulltime now but my "maleness" is staying it is my bond to my marrige and my daughter. and unless GRS becomes more common and safer, and federal TS marraige laws are created I am who I am :-)

hugs

[DonnaT]

I Have a question!! For a man to desire to wear woman's clothes, to go out and maybe even desire to pass as a woman, Isn't that man at odds with his birth sex ??

Not at all.

It's at odds to what society expects a man to NOT wear, however.

Note that men used to dress in frilly clothes and even tights long before it became unacceptable. Heck, men used to wear skirts all the time, before britches were invented.

In some societies, men still don't wear pants. Some wear sarongs, for example.

[Kelsy]

Not at all.

It's at odds to what society expects a man to NOT wear, however.

Note that men used to dress in frilly clothes and even tights long before it became unacceptable. Heck, men used to wear skirts all the time, before britches were invented.

In some societies, men still don't wear pants. Some wear sarongs, for example.

I find much of this confusing just as I have been confused about myself for all these years!! I Find that CDing doesn't relieve me of my Identity problem. For me it is not about the clothes! then there are times when I really need to escape some how!!! (can't run away from myself I've tried!)It is always a battle. I find that I am a mess most of the time!

Kelsy

[MissConstrued]

For a man to desire to wear woman's clothes, to go out and maybe even desire to pass as a woman, Isn't that man at odds with his birth sex ??

Not at all. I am, and always have been, at odds with the idea that only girls get to wear makeup and pretty dresses. Call it jealousy, maybe. Now I can have my cake and eat it too. I get to look like what I desire.

And no, I'm not the slightest bit uncomfortable being a man. I don't question my birth. I do the things society expects of males... but I refuse to accept that girly things are off-limits. What a rebel, eh?

[TxKimberly]

I suppose I would fall into such a category. I recall many nights when I was very young (5 or 6) praying when I went to ed that I would awake with a female body. As you can imagine, many nights and mornings were very disappointing! lol Of course sooner or later even children come to realize that they have to face facts and the realities of life - I was never going to wake up a girl/woman.
Now, so many years later (sigh . . .) I've a wife of 21 years that I love very dearly, two children that I adore and a third on the way, a career I love . . .
Going full time. transitioning, or SRS are not an option for me. I can still visit the female world on a fairly regular basis while still reaping the love and benefits of the life I have been blessed with.
So - what does this make me? A TS or a cross dresser? I dunno and I'm no longer willing to loose sleep contemplating it. . .

[marla01]

I Have a question!! For a man to desire to wear woman's clothes, to go out and maybe even desire to pass as a woman, Isn't that man at odds with his birth sex ?? Most men acting as men do not desire these things? The only exclusion that I can truly understand is the man who is a sexual fetishist!!! Personaly I dress as a woman because I feel like a woman, I see myself that way, but that has evolved. I desire physical changes and hormones because I am uncomfortable as a man! The only things that keep me from transitioning are my surrounding life circumstances and a whole lot of fear!!

Kelsy

I'm not sure exactly what your question was since it seemed to be more of a statement. Let me see if I can explain myself clearly:

- I dress as a woman because I am a woman.
- I'm perfectly comfortable and happy with my body as it is. My body does not define my gender.

Therefore I am not transsexual. I am transgendered (among many other labels). Please do not try to redefine transsexual to include me, the term fits very poorly.

Marla

[Sammy777]

Reading all the posts here I have come across a common factor/debate.
This is something I have though about for a while and have found the answer.

That being, is there something between a CD'er and a TS, and the answer now seems to be YES there is.

Just relaying what I have found, so don't go shooting the messenger!

The new term / label / ect on the block is:
"Dual Role Transvestism" or DRTV [Don't blame me, I didn't make up the name]

Defined HERE as:
* the person enjoys the experience of membership of the opposite sex through temporary wearing of clothes of the opposite sex
* there is no desire for a more permanent sex change and no sexual excitement accompanying the cross-dressing

Defined HERE as:
* *Patients are diagnosed with dual-role transvestism when they have no desire for a permanent change to the opposite sex.

And finally, defined in more detail HERE as:
* Men are said to display Dual Role Transvestism when they spend a significant portion of their life in a female role, valuing the expression of female feelings this allows. It is not sexually driven, but might have evolved from a previous fetishistic transvestism. Men displaying Dual Role Transvestism tend to dress in clothes appropriate to their age and the social setting, and sometimes to an age greater than their own.

The proportion of time spent in a female role varies between individuals, but may be over half of the available time. No matter how much time is so spent, though, the men concerned do not feel as if they are truly female. They view their male personas, and particularly their genitals, as valuable.
Dual Role Transvestism are mostly heterosexual, as are most males.


**** That is all, so to everybody, have fun chewing on this one, I know I did, lol. ****

[glynnis]

My wife simply calls me a transvestite,she actively encourages my pastime so I dont really care what I am called.

[sherib]

I'm getting so confused, we have enough initials now. I'm just a plain old CD. A guy that like to wear dresses. You know (KISS)

[AliceJaneInNewcastle]

We have various labels for what we are.

CD, TV .TS etc but their seems to be one missing.

NTT - Non Transitioning Transsexual

I firmly believe that there are many of us out there in the big world that are in a place between being a crossdresser and a transsexual.

I do not want to be a woman,I do not want to have surgery, but is CD'ing enough for me. The answer has to be NO.

A true transsexual is a person whose gender identity is constant and does not match the sex of their body. The diagnosis is "Gender Identity Disorder", and it is considered curable. A post-op TS is considered to be cured.

Quite simply, if you do not have GID based on your chromosomal sex, you are not TS.

Since you clearly stated that you do not want to be a woman, you aren't GID, so you aren't transsexual. Ironically, if you had said that you did want to be a woman, you would still not be a TS but more likely have a psychological condition such as borderline personality disorder. An MtF TS would say "I am a woman."

A problem in recent times has been that transvetic fetishists are calling themselves crossdressers because they don't like the stigmatised term "fetishist", leaving some real crossdressers such as you and me marginalised, denied our true label. We're seen as too serious about our crossdressing, as making too much effort, or even as "a transsexual in denial" (said to me at a support group meeting by someone who didn't really try to pass, while my wife was standing next to me).

The latest term I've see for us marginalised crossdressers is "femulators", a contraction of female emulator. I agree that the term is applicable, but I still consider myself a crossdresser.

[Patricia1]

I suppose I would fall into such a category. I recall many nights when I was very young (5 or 6) praying when I went to ed that I would awake with a female body. As you can imagine, many nights and mornings were very disappointing! lol Of course sooner or later even children come to realize that they have to face facts and the realities of life - I was never going to wake up a girl/woman.
Now, so many years later (sigh . . .) I've a wife of 21 years that I love very dearly, two children that I adore and a third on the way, a career I love . . .
Going full time. transitioning, or SRS are not an option for me. I can still visit the female world on a fairly regular basis while still reaping the love and benefits of the life I have been blessed with.
So - what does this make me? A TS or a cross dresser? I dunno and I'm no longer willing to loose sleep contemplating it. . .

Kimberley's story is mine as well, with a few more years under the bridge, but essentially the same. I can add that I know about & feel what many of you here have expressed. First, labels don't work - you know, the whole book by its cover stuff. Don't pin a tail on this donkey. Second, I'm neither here nor there, but just about every where else. I know what I'd druther but I have sense enough to know that that's one bridge too far. I'll stay on this side of the divide & dream of the promised land & imagine myself in paradise some day. Hey, a lot of metaphors, huh? Try to relax & hang on tight, it's the only reality we have.

[gwen cd]

I feel A man who wears woman's clothes is a crossdresser
A man who wants to be a woman is a T.S.

A man who wears womans clothes and acts like a woman all the time is a borderline T.S. who might in the future progress to the change

A man who wears womans clothes and acts like a woman on occation is a crossdresser.

A man who wears woman's clothing but does not act or want to be a woman is still a crossdresser.

Taking what I have layed out you come to a conclusion that if you dress and act like a woman 24/7 you lean towards the T.S scale and there for you call your self a T.S.

If you dress and act like a woman on occation or just dress like one You are a crossdresser.

Everyone is not the same, no one feels exactly like anyone else dose
We are on all different levels and this diversity could go on for about 70 different levels of T.S. and C.D.

Stick to the basics - Who you actualy are.

Please do not take offence to what I have put down but but that is the way I feel, as an Individuals that we all are.

[marla01]

A true transsexual is ....

Danger, danger Will Robinson, the word "true" is being used as an adjective!!

Just out of curiosity, what is an 'untrue' transsexual?

Quite simply, if you do not have GID based on your chromosomal sex, you are not TS.

I'm not sure this is correct. I've known a fair number of transsexuals who do not and did not seem to have GID. Actually, it is my experience that transsexuals with GID are a minority of all transsexuals (large minority, perhaps 30-40%). The majority change their sex not because they have a disorder, but instead just as part of living their lives and seeking their own life path.

An MtF TS would say "I am a woman."

This claim has always confused me for transsexuals. If the person is a woman, why do they need to change their sex? Contrariwise, if they need to change their sex, are they not saying that they somehow are not women?

In contrast, I know many M2F women who say "I am a woman", and they are women. It is obvious to anyone around them that they are women. And they have absolutely no need to change their bodies.

Marla

[Kerrylee61]

Could not have expressed it better myself.

Kerry

[Shikyo]

This claim has always confused me for transsexuals. If the person is a woman, why do they need to change their sex? Contrariwise, if they need to change their sex, are they not saying that they somehow are not women?

Marla

Because that is the way they feel. They are women, but they have a appearance of a male. The problem is that they are not mentally and physically the same sex, so they seek to transform their bodies to whatever sex they feel they are.

[vivianann]

Vickie, I know how you feel, I too feel the same way, I identify as a female, always have. However I do not want SRS, I want to live full time as a female, crossdressing is not enough for me anymore, I have called myself transgendered, but I dont know if that is a proper label, there is another one out there called transgenderist for those of us who prefer to live full time as a woman but do not want SRS. I am in the process of going full time because I am much more comfortable being a woman.

[marla01]

Because that is the way they feel. They are women, but they have a appearance of a male. The problem is that they are not mentally and physically the same sex, so they seek to transform their bodies to whatever sex they feel they are.

I'm confused here. Are you speaking about sex or gender?

Can you define to me what mental sex is? I understand the concept of gender identity and gender role, but I don't have the slightest idea what mental sex is or how it can be ascertained.

And if being a transsexual is just about desiring to change the body's sex, why do almost all transsexuals also change (or try to change) their gender role? One would think that it would be much easier to change the sex, but not change the gender role.

Marla

[karmatic1110]

And if being a transsexual is just about desiring to change the body's sex, why do almost all transsexuals also change (or try to change) their gender role? One would think that it would be much easier to change the sex, but not change the gender role.

One can still be a transsexual without taking action. I believe that people desire to change gender roles because it's either more comfortable to them, or they feel pressure to conform. I know I identify as a semi-butch lesbian and I try to just simply "be" outside of external tradition.

[Cindi Johnson]

I don’t seem to be “just a crossdresser”. I’m not like a generic CD. Clothes alone don’t do it for me. I prefer to dress and go out into the world as would any woman, and I do. Not into a nighttime world of gay bars, but into the real daylight world of restaurants, grocery stores, laundrymats, and all such mundane places. I am most at peace with the world and with myself when I’m a woman. I take a low dose of internet-purchased estrogen because it enhances my femininity, physically and mentally. I’ve had some cosmetic surgery and electrolysis. As such, I’ve probably gone too far to be a simple crossdresser.

Yet, unlike the generic TS, my penis doesn’t disgust me. I’m not attracted to men. I’ve enjoyed being a father and (while it lasted) a husband. I enjoy some masculine activities like fixing cars, but have never felt the closeness to others which all females appear to enjoy.

Yes, I’d prefer to have been born female. But I wasn’t. And now I’m stuck somewhere in the middle. From reading the posts to this site I know I am not alone in this. So, what are we???

I know, I know…, the TG community is already too fractured. The last thing we need is another category. These days I simply call myself “transgendered“, and leave it at that. But maybe that’s not enough. Maybe this “third way” needs a name. Any ideas?

Cindi

----I posted this to the TS category a week or so ago. Seems the same issue haunts the CD category. Maybe we are all a bit transsexual, whether we care to admit it or not. After all, who among us hasn't at times, upon encountering a pretty young woman, yearned to actually be her?

Cindi