Estrogen without testosterone blockers ...

[ria_ts]

Have you taken estrogen without testosterone blockers?

[Karen564]

No, I have not taken estrogen without the blockers, BUT I have taken the blockers without the estrogen..

From what I remember reading before, and it's been a while now,
When taking to much estrogen, the excess E would convert into testosterone...

But I never heard of Estrogen stopping testosterone to any degree..not to mention the added risk of much more severe complications taking too much estrogen...
So if the patient has serious reactions to blockers, then I would also bet too much estrogen would lead to a severe condition in a short period of time..

My unofficial medical advise would be that patient should opt for an Orchi..and then take a more normal dose of E..


I just dont believe in reinventing the wheel with a theory in a case like this..

[Joy Carter]

From what I understand, taking E without blocking T, is a waist of E.

[Linda Z]

I have taken estrogen without testosterone blockers for 2 years now.

I take care of my wife when she needs it, we are both 50 -54 years. I do need to work at keeping it working, but its OK.
I am having the best years of my life!
I have small aa breast, that are growing slowly
my mood is level and easy, allows me to focus on work. I still chase the skirts, and like wearing them, when I want to.
balance is the key for me.

Linda Z

[Ashlie Marie]

Linda that sounds just like me. my regualr doc told me after I let it rip with like a thousand questions lol. She told me that the endo can do 1 of three things for me it will take a little a few years for full transition but I am in no hurry, I can choose injections the patch or gel. with no blockers. she did recommed saw plametto twice a day if i want to to help control the DHT's but my therapist told me that the end of May, she will give me the go ahead for HRT. She wants my work to finish my name change and everything first., and it is taking forever LOL sorry that's anther story.

hugs

[LaurenS.]

I just went thru this with my endo. He is prescribing estrogen without anti-androgen. He said he's had great success without using any blockers. He said that over time my testosterone levels will diminish and eventually almost dissapear. It helps that my natural testosterone level is on the low side. I'm on a very low dose patch and will be anxious to see how things go.
I am just starting so too early to report any results.
Lauren

[tiger]

With any luck I will be taking E (with the patch) in June. My doctor stated that the T will go down lower when I start taking E and there is no need for me to take T blockers. I already have low T so I don't think I need to drop it that much.

[morgan pure]

You found me. Not on any blockers. Started with low dose pills one year ago. Graduated to relatively high dose patches 2 months ago (that's all that my English online pharmacy had).

But I'm late 50's, and think that my testosterone levels were already declining. I'm fit, but there was some extra breast tissue before I started.

Emotionally I felt it right away. Two weeks of head rushes and heat waves. Now I'm just happy. All the time. Skin has changed, no more excessive muscle growth (I used to dread cutting wood).

I don't think we need blockers. Women should have some T. I know lots of chicks with a lot of testosterone.

Morgan

[Scotty]

2 years without T-blockers, does it slow down the E! Sure....
but there are those of us with SO's and whatnot...

I did not like the feeling of the T-blockers, the complete lack of energy - and while I hear that passes I was a bit heavy on the T-blockers.

I have A cup breasts though, hip fat to finally make my wide bones look femme - and a butt that is clearly not male....

It just takes a bit longer but emotionally - awesome!!! That's the biggest thing for me, I love the emotional well being.

[Linda Z]

2 years without T-blockers, does it slow down the E! Sure....
but there are those of us with SO's and whatnot...

I did not like the feeling of the T-blockers, the complete lack of energy - and while I hear that passes I was a bit heavy on the T-blockers.

I have A cup breasts though, hip fat to finally make my wide bones look femme - and a butt that is clearly not male....

It just takes a bit longer but emotionally - awesome!!! That's the biggest thing for me, I love the emotional well being.

I totaly agree!!

[Jena11]

My doctor has also said that he has had success with just the E and no blockers, the blockers can bring more possible issues that it is worth. That is what he has told me. My levels of E have been very good and I have been getting all of the positive effects of it. Jen

[Dawn D.]

Yeah, I am E only. Have been since I started HRT one year ago. Like others my T level was low and declining. I'm 51 y/o. My monitoring OB/GYN litteraly refused to start me on any T blocker. She said I didn't need it. Now, after my latest blood test my T level is virtually non existant. Effects? As others have stated I first gained a much more mello attitude. I had a feeling of being alive that I hadn't known in many years! Breast growth in my mind has been fenominal! I'm starting to push out a B cup quite well and the way the girls feel their not done yet! My face has changed tremendously too. I gained slightly in the hips and really lost a lot of muscle tone in chest,arms and legs, yay! My wife says I have such a nice butt to me all the time. So yes, E alone can work quite well.

I just started my RLE and I am on day four today. I do not intend for this to sound like a bragg, however, it has been absolutely fantastic todate with everyones approach to me. My customers that have previously known me are seemingly quite at ease with me and most say they understand. We'll see if that continues. Every female customer that knows me thus far has offered very sweet and supportive tone. The point to this is that after one year on this wonder drug I have been fortunate enough in my physical appearance changes that I now get well accepted as female. I think it might have alot to do with genetics too. I look now and looked as a young man, a lot like my mother. I also have a pretty non masculinized skeletal structure. So, I guess the E in my case had a somewhat neutral palette to work with even at such a late starting age. Just got lucky that way!

[Andrea Elva]

I have been on 2.5 mg of E for a year with any T-blockers and I have developed a goos size A cup, i.e. a full A cup. 2.5 is a small dose and the answer is that it all depends on one's own body and how it uses the E. So yes it can work well with T-blockers but it can also do nothing, and even do nothing even with T-blockers like a sister of mine who has been on E for far longer than I am and is still flat chestered.

[Carole Cross]

When I start to take hormones, I will not be using Testosterone blockers. Taking hormones without blockers does slow down the process of change, but he end results are the same. I suppose if you need to speed up the process at any time, you could take blockers, but I don't know what difference it would make.

[Nicki B]

Permission was given to copy this, from an Australian forum:

The article states:

Progesterone action and receptors, by Nancy L Krett, Dean P Edwards and Kathryn B Horwitz, of the University of Colorado Health Sciences Centre, Denver.

Progesterone also acts synergistically with estrogen in the normal development of the breast. Estrogen stimulates cell mitosis and growth of the ductal system, while lobular development and differentiation is dependent on progesterone.

When estrogen is administered in the absence of progesterone, the tubular system proliferates and the ducts dilate resulting in the formation of cysts and fibroses.

These changes are comparable to those observed in fibrocystic disease and are suppressed by progestins, so that normal breast development requires that estrogen and progesterone be administered together".

The most commonly prescribed Progestagen would have to be Provera/Ralovera. There is a gradually move towards prescribing Duphaston which has fewer side effects, but doesn't appear to be as effective in the feminisation required by most TS's.

I started on Medroxyprogesterone Acetate (aka Provera) in 1997 and in 2003 switched to Duphaston. In all 12 years of HRT I have never been on just an Oestrogen alone. My experience has been that Oestrogen unopposed, that's without a P, leads to dry skin and hair, and brittle nails. Not only does the Progesterone add balance but it also gives a more rounded appearance to the face. Previously I have often referred to P as the nesting hormone. Whilst Oestrogen makes for a "brittle hardnosed" woman, Progesterone adds the more softer "need to be hugged often" aspects. I love my Duphaston - currently 20mg per day.

[morgan pure]

Thank you Nikki.

[CharleneT]

Thank you Nikki.

! ! !! !

[Melinda]

Hmmm, instead of starting yet another thread about hormones I'm going to ask this question in this thread since it relates. A little over a year ago I started a small dosage/day of oestradiol. After 2 1/2 months I couldn't notice any changes, mental or physical. stopped after a knee injury for a variety of reasons, mostly to focus on my physical therapy and rehab.

5 weeks ago I renewed my Rx and took a larger dosage mg/day for 2 weeks, still didn't notice any effect. With a Dr appt scheduled 2 weeks later and a sufficient supply of oestradiol on hand I started doubling up to an even larger dosage/day. I noticed immediate changes. My nipples started to push out and my breasts started to grow. Stopped having pesky erections. All good. Best of all I noticed I was smiling all the time. No particular reason except that I felt so much less internal pressure, like this constant annoying buzzing that nobody else could hear had just gone away.

At the Dr appt my doc went ahead and upped my Rx to the larger dosage/day. That was 10 days ago. Over the last 10 days or so I've noticed the breast growth I had previously observed seeming to diminish, some spontaneous erections returning and a little less feeling of general well-being.

My question to those with more experience is whether there is a tolerance, similar to the way you can develop a tolerance for alcohol or pain killers or other things, that develops towards estrogen? Or is this more likely just the normal variation you would expect with any biological process?

Thanks for your input.

The post about the progesterone is very interesting. I've seen lots of sites, I believe Canadian National Health Services is one, that state that progesterone is unnecessary in transition and not recommended as it may cause depression. It certainly would be nice if there were a larger body of solid research and less reliance on general anecdotal evidence.

Peace!

[Kimberley]

My endo didnt use a T blocker but another drug that reduces testosterone production instead (Suprefact). It has definitely lowered the T in my system.

Tomorrow I start a low dose of Estrace plus Progesterone. I go back to see him in 6 months with 2 sets of blood tests in between.


Kim

[Billijo49504]

Excuse my lack of knowledge but, I wondering what would happen if you took T blockers and no E. I'm almost a 42C now, but I want to learn. Thanks BJ

[morgan pure]

Melinda,

The smiling doesn't stop.

Morgan

[Kimberley]

Melinda, I asked my endo about Progesterone and he said it isnt necessary but it does aid in breast development. He uses it only in low doses in combination with E plus the Suprefact which lowers T production. That is his approach and has been for many many years and many successful transitions.

However, he doesnt do anything until he has blood test results in hand. I have to go in a week before my appt to have the nurse draw the blood for testing so that he has those for the appt.

So, is it necessary? No. Does it help? Yes. Is it a big deal? I dont think so.

The one thing he commented to me about is that there isnt a lot of accurate information available for treatment protocols and it has to be a case by case basis. Since his specialty is reproductive endocrinology he probably has a leg up on most doctors. He has also been gathering data over the years with the intent of publishing a paper on this subject. It will be interesting to see how the Canadian Medical Association takes it.


Kim

[MarieTS]

From what I've read on this thread alone, Kimberly's protocal seems to be the treatment of choice. Moderately small levels of T blockers and progesterone in concert with the appropriate estrogen dose. Kimberly, one item I have a question on is did your doc discuss the research released about a year ago indicating proesterone levels may play a part in breast masses? Nonetheless, I think your treatment protocol is the most sound. After all, there is risk with anything.