Taking hormones without loosing sexual function?

[Hephaestus]

I'm 23, and want to start taking hormones, but want to get some information first, due to my situation being different from what I see talked about in online literature.

I consider myself perhaps 65% girl, 35% guy... and I know I want to be of feminine body to match my mind... but I do want my penis to continue to be able to satisfy my partner. From all my reading, it seems like going the typical route with anti-androgens causes erections to cease. Would taking estrogen by itself have a feminizing effect without killing off my sexual abilities? I don't care about sperm count, just the ability to get erect and have sex.

Also, over and over I see transgender info sources mention that you can bump down to a low dose of estrogen after SRS... but, continuing with my situation of not wanting that.. what do I do? If I take hormones for a while, get results, and then stop taking them to save my penis' function, in later years will I still get male pattern baldness, and start to grow darker/thicker hair back on my body?

Thanks for the help :]

-Rosie

[Sharon]

So let me see if I have this correct. You write that you are 35% male. Does that mean 35% penis function would be about what you would expect and be satisfied with? And since you are 65% female..., no, nevermind, I'm not going to go there.

I best leave this to all the "experts" out there.

[Lisa Golightly]

I think you need to think a lot more about things... Why not just get some implants? It's a hell of a lot easier and the risk of death is lower...

Hmmmmmmm?

[MJ]

I think you need to think a lot more about things... Why not just get some implants? It's a hell of a lot easier and the risk of death is lower...

Hmmmmmmm?

were talking about absolutes here your either a boy or a girl not both....

the fact is you have to do this right the reason for the anti-androgens "Spiro" is to stop male characteristics
you add estrogen to then create female characteristics Estrogen re wires your brain the testosterone also will try to re wire your brain talk about a head case you are either one or the other you can't be both with both hormones destroying your mind and body

as Lisa has said just get implants and save yourself a lot of stress

[GypsyKaren]

Estrogen can lead to permanent changes, especially at the doses needed to change your body, so I think I'd be concerned that the 65% and the 35% might change places some day.

Karen

[Melissa A.]

While I'm a staunch advocate of the idea that transsexuals know themselves better than anyone else, and that the hoops we need to jump through to become who we are, are cumbersome and not fair, I also feel that those who are living on the so-called "gray areas" of the (also so-called) "transgender spectrum" should not be fooling around with hormones. If that sounds somewhat elitist to you, so be it. I am sorry. This is a huge, huge decision for one planning transition, alone. There are possible health implications, for one thing, and I also see possible far-reaching social implications for transsexuals down the road. Right now, Transsexualism is reaching a point where we are becoming accepted by many facets of society. I truly hope that continues to improve. However, there are voices of dissent out there. They may be biased and do sloppy research, but some of those voices do have some power to influence decisions about us. (amazing that we are rarely, if ever, asked how WE feel!) If the use of hormones and other serious tools becomes widespread by those who are less than transsexual, I see a possible backlash. After all, if others "partially transition" because they really, really, really, really want to, what's to stop someone of accusing me of feeling the same, even though the truth is I DON'T necessarilly want to- I NEED to. I am already accused by some who think they know what they are talking about, of being nothing but a "homosxeual male", or an "autogynapheliac". I would hate to see the needs of those desperate enough to transition trivialized for the sake of others. Or because the "TG" community as a whole overreached, someday. I'm sorry, But that's how I feel. We are getting closer and closer every day, but the gains we are seeing are still too rare, and can be fragile, and be taken away very easily. I do sympathize with you and those like you, but I dont think you need HRT. I am sorry.

Hugs,

Melissa

[melissaK]

Rosie,

(The executive summary). I think from your questions you know the answers. As much as some of us want to stradddle the fence and have it both ways, its not likely to be done. I've probably been doing what you propose for 2 1/2 years or so (time flies). and I can't find the balance. I always seem to be on one side or the other.

(Begin long story). I started HRT motivated by controlling anxiety over gender dysphoria that had become disabling. (I'll call it GID for purposes of this post - don't want to start a nomenclature debate) Like most all of us my issues emerged pre-teen, and got worse into adult hood. WASP male shame and guilt haunted me. I invested in a male professional career and had a family and truly didn't want to transition. But, counselling and recreational CDing wasn't working. I had a serious mental health breakdown.

So, in an effort to not transition but to still do something, I began taking E alone. I did blood tests and had a physical to make sure I could. While I disclosed this to a counsellor, I did not see an endocrinologist or have a supervising doctor.

It took a 2-3 weeks on E and my GID anxiety went away for the first time in decades. WOW. It was a welcome respite. After a few months I developed visible breast growth.

Breast growth takes time, and sustained E, even without the anti-androgens like spiro, impairs testes function and testosterone secretion by your body. As T declined so did my sperm production, then so did my erections. Mine became more difficult to obtain, sustain, and were on a smaller scale than previously. My interest in sex fell off too. (Lots of room for discussion about how women view sex vs men and trans peoples need to relearn sexual interest, imagery, etc.)

But, in my world, I am married and my wife wants a traditional sexual relationship. She knew I CDed, but transitioning was her deal breaker. To keep my relationship with her, I cut back on E.

I found low doses didn't keep the GID anxiety at bay, and breast growth reversed. The fullness of them went away and they got smaller. But, sperm returned, and erections returned. With time they returned to historical size as well.

The return of anxiety issues became unbearable again, and I restarted E.

I have since varied dosages, trying to find the dosage that puts me on the fence, but it has proven elusive; I always seem to be on one side or the other.

I have also had a physical and blood work done annually since I have begun this. I have not had abnormal tests.

That said, as you read the scientific literature, you will see research concluding that E changes brain cells in XY genetic males. If you create certain brain cells by putting E in your body, then later remove the E source, what happens to those cells in the long run? Some genetic XY men have bodies that produce too much E, how has this affected them? Is there a risk of birth defects from starting and restarting semen production? True studies aren't there to answer these exotic questions.

All of us XY genetic humans taking E at XX genetic levels puts us in unexplored territory. I've done this yo-yo with E for 2 1/2 years and outwardly seem no worse for the wear, but I haven't had a battery of pscyhe tests, or IQ tests, or lots of other potential tests. What will be the result of yo-yoing for 20 years (if i am lucky enough to live so long)? I didn't start till I was 52, what about someone like you who might start at 23? By my age you'd have been yo-yoing for 30 years. Could the brain and body handle that?

As with all early explorers, the risks can be substantial. Columbus may have found the New World, but his crew sailed home without him. Madame Curie died from the then unknown side effects of her work.

The idea of getting implants is fine if you don't have serious problems with anxiety from not transitioning. For me, the breasts are great, but either the presence of E or the suppressed T seem to be what controls my anxiety. I am not sure which it is. I suspect it is the suppressed T that does it because of reports of usually late in life non transitioners who undergo orchiectomies and report anxiety relief. Who knows, maybe someday we will learn many of us MTF's have a genetic condition that makes our bodies intolerant of our own T. If you can't live with T, then why not transition?

If I knew now what I didn't know when I was your age, I don't know what I would have done different with my life. I have kids and enjoy my family greatly. I would regret not having had them. But, living out a life as a man has been staggeringly hard and I have broken once or twice under the peculiar strain. Perhaps my life scales of joy and suffering are balanced. (Sorry, don't mean to wax so philospohical).

Keep doing your homework. New studies and reports emerge regularly. Be careful listening to opinion - track down the actual medical studies if you are academically up to such tasks.

Overall, I think the best course is to get a good smart endocrinologist who treats trans folk and engage them in discussion of your options. They won't be easy to find, but, it will be money well spent. Its your whole life ahead of you. It would be a shame to say you spent more on the short term joy of a flat screen or a car than on your long term health and concommitent happiness.

Stay optimistic.

hugs,
'lissa

[Hephaestus]

Thank you for taking the time to reply

Sharon, don't assume I wouldn't listen to you. I think I made a mistake in posting a definitive %, I'm bad at math ... For one thing if you asked me last year I may have said 50%, the year before 40... I'm heading more towards the pink cloud, I think ^_^; I'll put it this way, I feel at peace when I'm dressed, and I want my whole body to be more female, not just breasts. Having only breast implants would look so stupid on me, I'd be a sideshow attraction.. furthermore it's not just about having some breasts to play with, if that's what y'all think I'm driving at.
Also after talking things over with my SO she said she would love me just the same if I lost function and would be happy with me using marital aids (She is so great!) Even if I would lose function, it would be worth it. I've researched for a couple weeks everything I could find on this, I know the risks, deep vein thrombosis and and such... but I'm a healthy 23 year old and to me the risks are worth having a body that fits me better.

...With that out of the way, could someone please steer me towards an answer? While waiting on a reply here I cruised the archives here and found a few cases where the TG person in question was taking E and low dose AA's and still had function after a couple years. Again, it's not a requirement for me to function sexually, but I'd prefer to keep it for the time being. Would an orchiectomy be an option?

[Stargirl]

Snipping off your family jewels at such a young age seems a tad drastic if you are happy with things the way they are "down south". I am sure the best solution will show up sooner or later. You have time on your side.

[Sarah...]

Look, there are indeed some combinations of HRT that may give a better chance of erectile penile function than others but there is so much variability in each person that it is only likely to be an endocrinologist who could perhaps specify a regime that could help you with the end goal you perceive you need from your current viewpoint. So I'll offer no advice here. I'm not an endocrinologist.

However, I'll say this. Becky and I have done some serious research in this area and have come to the conclusion that the response is largely down to the individual's innate biology and that an endocrinologist is unlikely to be able to be accurate in defining a regime that is guaranteed to give the results you seek. As such, we talked some more and came to the conclusion that in seeking the end goal you describe we were actually avoiding the more pertinent question of how we would function together as two women. Once we addressed that question the issue of maintaining a male performance melted away.

It probably doesn't help your specific question - but that is my experience and I offer it as another view that you can add into your thinking if you wish

Sarah...

[Hephaestus]

Thank you :] ...Really, since my gf told me last night that it wasn't necessary for me to have erections, I have a different outlook now...A lot of what held me back for years was that I'm only attracted to women, and I thought no woman would love me like that. I guess now my only problem is I'm not steadily employed and have no insurance :|

[Tiffany Tuesday]

Thank you :] ...Really, since my gf told me last night that it wasn't necessary for me to have erections, I have a different outlook now...A lot of what held me back for years was that I'm only attracted to women, and I thought no woman would love me like that. I guess now my only problem is I'm not steadily employed and have no insurance :|

Hi baby bee,

read the posts above from those who know. I agree with Lisa Golightly, get implants. Estrogen of sufficient strength and duration to work, will feminise you more than you seem to seek. Never change something you may regret later.

And for an economic boob job google for Thailand mtf surgeons.

Then again, Hephaestus .. did he not have a limp limb anyway?

hugz
Tiff x

[ChristineRenee]

I don't know if I qualify as an "expert" here, but I am in this situation so I will respond.

I have been on HRT since 2004. It DOES affect your sex life. It DOES affect both penis and testicle size AND your sexual libido, and anyone that tries to tell you differently isn't being completely honest with you.

That said...if you are going to be on HRT on a regular basis, and still want to sexually satisfy your partner, my advice to you would be to get a prescription from your doctor for Viagra or Cialis or some equivalent. I did and it has helped me. I had significant shrinkage of both my penis and my testicles because of HRT. I like to say that, metaphorically speaking, I went from a 44 Magnum "down there" to a derringer! But the biggest problem was more than the size reduction...it was the loss of libido.

Now...I'm not advocating to ANYONE here to go on HRT. I like to say that I went on them initially for all the WRONG reasons and ended up taking them on a regular basis for the RIGHT reasons...and no...I don't care to share anymore personal info than that about why I am on HRT when I don't ever plan to transition. To be blunt...I would NEVER recommend HRT for ANYONE that isn't planning to at least live as a pre-op TS.

So, bottom line here, I recommend a Viagra prescription, or the equivalent, for you so that you will be able to perform your duties as a sexual partner for your spouse.

Just my as always.

[Kimberley]

I think you need to see a therapist. Start messing with HRT and you are making permanent changes. In my opinion, if you arent willing to say 100% female then you are deluding yourself as well as robbing those around you of you in whatever capacity.

This isnt a game.

If you want physical change but not SRS that is fine and there are many valid reasons for that but even those who choose that will say they are female and have paid their dues for those decisions.

As the saying goes you cant have your cake and eat it too.

[Joan Merrie]

hephaestus, PLEASE,PLEASE, seek out a qualified therapist. Because thats what you need most right now.

[Hephaestus]

You know what, I've changed my mind, I don't care about my dick >_< I do seek being a woman. I really said a stupid thing in the beginning. I know this isn't a game, it's my life and body. Do you know how stupid implants would look on me? I'm a ex weightlifter and bladesmith professionally. I'd look like a linebacker with balloons attached, I figure.

I phrased things really stupidly in my first post, with incorrect information. I really think I need the whole package, even if it takes mine. Sorry to ask a stupid question, I see I've offended you mentioning this, I'm truly sorry. v_v

In my native forum people always ask "LoL how do I forge a sward that can cut steel and cinder blocks? I like knifes and stuf!!!!1 I only have a bic lighter a scrap of sandpaper and an old lawnmower blade to work with." I understand about people asking stupid questions on forums, but I always keep a cool head and try to help everyone out as if they were the first to come to me for advice without an ounce of research. (not saying all of you came at me that hard) Such is not the case with me, I'm not the guy trying to get tits for fun and ruin TG's good name.

Again, sorry. I think I'm going to come out to my father soon and ask for financial assistance to see a psychiatrist. My back and all over is starting to get very hairy and gross, I'd like to nip this in the bud. I may not ever pass but I do want to be a woman..
I was in err with my first post, trying to not transition totally for the sake of my woman, I didn't expect her to be cool with a total transformation. She is, and it's a heavy weight off my shoulders. Again, sorry.

[Lisa Golightly]

You know... You'll get this all the way down the line... You are going to have to convince professionals you're serious you need to fundamentally alter your entire life.. Often lose that which at the begining you don't think you will...

If your first post contained incorrect information then perhaps you've learned the biggest lesson we as transsexuals can learn... be true to yourself and be honest with others.

Go seek the help you require... We've all had to...

Good luck.

Lisa x

[Zenith]

Hi Rosie...

First things first...you do need to talk things over with a psych...they will help you find your own answers...to be honest the biggest benefit to hrt is the mental/emotional...if this has been eating at you the hormones will help...but it is a serious step as everyone said...some visible some not but many permanent changes...that being said it has helped me a great deal...

BTW...I'm a knifeknut......lemmee know what sort of blades you make...fixed? folders?

[Niya W]

For each person its different. For me looking at porn does nothing. I habe to be touched to get an erection. But it still happens and it can last just as long as before .

[Hephaestus]

I can't make folders yet except friction folders (no lock), i make mostly fixed blades.

I'm definitely getting with a psychiatrist about it... although I'm unemployed and no insurance.. I did find a psychiatrist with a not-so-horrible hourly rate in atlanta. (2 hour drive)

[Zenith]

I can't make folders yet except friction folders (no lock), i make mostly fixed blades.



I'm definitely getting with a psychiatrist about it... although I'm unemployed and no insurance.. I did find a psychiatrist with a not-so-horrible hourly rate in atlanta. (2 hour drive)

What style? Hunters? Drop-point? Any famous makers you take after? Bill Moran, Jimmy Lile, Bo Randall, George Heron, Bob Loveless, Bob Dozier, Gil Hibben,...etc...

That's a good move...let us know how it goes...there are lots of possible treatments...including transitioning...but that is if you have reached a point in your life where you just can't live with yourself any longer...

[Joan Merrie]

I can't make folders yet except friction folders (no lock), i make mostly fixed blades.

I'm definitely getting with a psychiatrist about it... although I'm unemployed and no insurance.. I did find a psychiatrist with a not-so-horrible hourly rate in atlanta. (2 hour drive)

OK, now that I know where you are. Make two more posts right quick, and I'll PM you the name and info on my therapist. She is the best. She has helped me tremendously.

[Hephaestus]

Thank you to everyone for the advice.

Zenith: I'm not influenced by any particular maker, I design based on what the client needs/wants. I've made all kinds of fixed blades and can do a lot of different stuff, but I do tend to make knives with curved, ergonomic handles and blades that have clean lines. I have taken many ideas from a lot of other makers, but I never say "I like that and want to copy it exactly."

[Kaitlyn Michele]

Good luck Rosie. As others have said, this is a serious and long journey no matter where you start or end up.

I don't think you are hurting anyone by asking lots of questions, and I don't think your original question was a bad one...and you have lots of time to consider your own inner feelings, and your options..

If you take hormones, though, you need to make sure that you are physically ok. Over time, you will lose sex function...plus over time, the effects will become permanent..btw after about 10 months of E and T blockers, my penis still works when i want it to, but I've lost all spontaneous erections (which i hated and had quite often )...just nothing comes out anymore when i release, which is fine with me...

You also said you didnt have good cash flow or insurance...hormones cost money!! and generally the E is not insured, just saying..

So get that therapist so you can let it all hang out and they will help you sort through all the confusing and mixed feelings you may be having...I think you might be amazed at how your thinking comes together after a couple of hrs with an experienced gender therapist.. It's worth the upfront money because it will help you figure out where to invest your resources in the future to feminize your body

Many TG folks have had to work around cash flow issues that only get worse when you try to become more feminine and especially if you transition

You are risking alot health/friends/family/$$ by doing this so make sure you know what you're doing....which I think is what you are doing here!!! LOL...

Take care - Michele

[Empress Lainie]

[SIZE=4]Interesting conversations on here. I do know of some couples where the male became fully transitioned with SRS and they have been together for a long time.

My own experience I have used phytoestrogen for 18 years, have nice (to me) breasts) am accepted as a real woman, and live female 24/7 with female ID.

However, sex drive is minimal, erections are mostly impossible, and even orgasms are sometimes not possible. Since I have no sex partner I don't even care. I also don't feel like I need anyone's permission to do what I want to do with my body. [/SIZE]