Thanks for letting me know I don't pass

[susandrea]

It's based on the presumption that we crossdressers are born the way we are.

Throughout human history, people have been discriminated against for what they were born as. If the presumption is true, then crossdressers are really no different in some respects than many other groups of humans who have been discriminated against for what they were born as.

Even if you remove the presumption, there's still a nearly infinite supply of discrimination against crossdressers based on something that doesn't hurt anyone else any more than a woman wearing pants hurts someone else.

Thank-you.

I posted that pic as a reminder that the way many people are greeted in this world can be seen as -- and felt as -- an insult (obviously).

'Sir'... 'Boy'...'Sweetie'...

Sometimes it happens out of ignorance, sometimes on purpose as a put-down. Historically it was more of a power-play, while today it tends to be out of ignorance (although where you live does affect that.) Just today I felt irked my boss's boss called me 'honey', but I suppose I should be grateful to know she likes me...

The transgender movement is currently fighting very hard to get laws passed that mirror civil rights laws in many ways. Protection from hate crimes, loss of employment, equal treatment at work and in court, ect. I follow those legal battles every day, as well as the news from all over the world of what's going on in the transgender, gay, and civil rights movements.

As for comparing transgender to race or sexual orientation -- you could argue that for years. The gay movement is battling out the 'born as' vs. 'it's a choice' argument in a big way and I don't see that being resolved anytime soon. Many in the religious right jump to add the transgender crowd in the 'choice' group, too.

Will the day ever come when bigotry, misogyny, racism, and homophobia ever disappear? Or is mankind doomed to forever find something about his neighbor that is objectionable in some way? I think that day will come, but only after a daunting amount of work -- and even our grandchildren won't live to see it.

And all you CDs who do venture forth out into the public and just try to get through a day with little fuss and hopefully an honest smile here and there, you will be looked on in the future as the pioneers of the transgender movement, during the first several decades when it was considered a gutsy thing to do.

Be remembered for your grace, intelligence, and fortitude!

[Carin]

And all you CDs who do venture forth out into the public and just try to get through a day with little fuss and hopefully an honest smile here and there, you will be looked on in the future as the pioneers of the transgender movement, during the first several decades when it was considered a gutsy thing to do.

Be remembered for your grace, intelligence, and fortitude!

Can't you just hear the music louder and louder with each word.!!
Thank you for saying that susandrea. Very moving.

What a debate. Sorry guys and girls (choose which you prefer) I really got lost in the middle and had to skip to the end.

I know that if I have on a leather jacket and standing at a counter my facial energy (or is that just my nose) says male regardless of makeup or whatever else is on. Was the 'SIR' ignorance or defiance - who knows. It comes with the territory and will slowly - ever so slowly change. Hugs to Wendy. You came here to vent, but you will be charged for the hundreds of wo/man hours consumed by the respondents

It does however get easier with time, and the odd slight will have less and less significance.

[battybattybats]

Isn't that what I said, in somewhat different words? Unprotected rights are essentially (for practical purposes) nonexistent? Do you just like to argue so much you forget where you agree?

No, the right exists, if unprotected and is unable to be asserted or is prevented it is violated. A human/civil rights abuse. A fundamental injustice.

The right still exists.

Have you then made the assumption that I have not read Socrates? Just as I've read Adam Smith and Karl Marx... I don't have to agree 100% with one work of philosophy. It's just another part of how one might form the "big picture."

Good point.
However surely you would agree then that philosophy is at the heart of all things? That it is simply the higher form of thinking which enables better decisisions and chocies which are the strength behind all politics and power?

Consider Thulsa Doom's answer to Conan and the Riddle of Steel (lol, philosophy is a big part of that action movie) but the answer that sits above that, that thought is stronger than flesh which is stronger than steel is the great wisdom.

It's ideas understanding and knowledge which control choices, and choices control actions, and actions include violence and power. Freedom and justice are some of these ideas.

The ideas are at the heart of it all.

Including this thread.

[Rachel Morley]

And all you CDs who do venture forth out into the public and just try to get through a day with little fuss and hopefully an honest smile here and there, you will be looked on in the future as the pioneers of the transgender movement, during the first several decades when it was considered a gutsy thing to do.

Be remembered for your grace, intelligence, and fortitude!

Wow! What a awesome thing to say. If you were standing on a podium and saying that to me and the assembled TGs, at say a Pride event, I'd be jumping up and down and chanting your name! Very inspiring words (to me at least)

[susandrea]

Wow! What a awesome thing to say. If you were standing on a podium and saying that to me and the assembled TGs, at say a Pride event, I'd be jumping up and down and chanting your name! Very inspiring words (to me at least)

Rachel, if I knew you were going to read this I would have added 'poise, humor, and a great sense of style!'

[Melissa A.]

I am wholeheartedly in agreement when it comes to civility, politeness, courtesy. I have no problem if you tell others you'd prefer to be called thus or such. It's the sense of entitlement expressed by some (not you) that I take issue with.

There's a bit of a difference between having a sense of entitlement and asking to be treated respectfully and with a minimum amount of decency. A sense of entitlement is generally cultivated, or taught, over long periods of time. Most who have this sense often don't even realise they are displaying it. Dominant social or economic groups are a good example. A spoiled adlolescent is another. A person who has had to learn, over time, to even be minimally confident when out in public can hardly be described as having a sense of entitlement. Myself as an example, I dress fairly plainly most of the time. Not for any reason but that I enjoy being comfortable. And again, I'm a ts, not a cd. Although I think there really shouldn't be a difference, to tell you the truth, the lone exception being that I don't have any chioce but to be out in the world. Some may think I "pass", some not. I really don't care about that. Up close and personal, most know I'm trans. But when you look at and interact with me, there is no doubt whatsoever about what sex I am presenting as. I am "asking" by my presentation, to not be adressed as a male. That's a very simple and non-threatening concept. Saying nothing at all is ok. But going out of one's way to let me know, especially verbally, that you're going to dig your heels in and refuse to give me that, because you know very well how disrespectful and demeaning that can be, is rude and unecessary. As I've repeated here, I don't get mad, jump up and down, throw tantrums. And I do realise that mistakes are made, some are unsure, and some feel uncomfortable. I get that. I smile and politely correct. But we arent talking about mistakes or a faux pas, here, generally. And when you take the two behaviors, going out of your way to insult or try to demean, compared to simply asking implicitly to be addressed properly, which is actually more selfish? Which is asking more of the other? This isnt a problem I run into very often. Most people are polite and gracious. But when it does, I say something. And I think anyone who does is justified. I suppose different people place the bar in different places. But to call asking to be teated respectfully and addressed obviously(Yes! obviously!) as you wish to be, "Stupid" or acting with a sense of entitlement, makes very little sense. The whole idea of trans-awareness, is to show people we arent monsters or freaks, and that we're their neighbors, relatives and friends. And yes, that we aren't going to tolerate being treated as such. If that sounds overly "angry" or "entitled" to you, so be it. I dissagree. And enough progress has been made, I think, to expect a small amount of respect and decency from people. That's not even close to any sense of entitlement.

Hugs,

Melissa

[vivianann]

Being an experienced out in public crossdresser or tg, if I get called sir which happens once in a while, I politely say I prefer to be called ma'am, and so far peaple have been apoligetic and polite to me.
What I would have been offended by was the woman behind the counter not wanting to help me because I was enfemme, what she did was rude, I would have said since she thinks she is too good to help me you will not get my business anymore, I then would have walked out.
That kind of behavior has never happened to me when I am in femme mode, but it happens alot when I am in male mode because women find me to be too ugly to look at to help me, when that happens to me I tell her what she did was rude and I leave, and I do let the manager know that because of the rudeness of the employee, they will not get my business anymore.