Normal, liars or selfish

[AndreaRose]

The common idea on this forum is that crossdressing is a normal or atleast relatively normal thing. I've been thinking is it normal though, are crossdressers just liars, they lie to others, not being what they seem, and/or they lie to themselves, that what they are is normal and not a problem or that they are just a neutral gender and not possibly a homosexual. The other idea is that it's based in selfishness all about indulging themselves and not caring enough about others, looking to themselves to acheive what they want.

I'm sure that the response on this forum will be mostly that what I think is wrong and that I am talking out of my ass. However, I am becoming more steadfast in the idea that crossdressing is not a normal human behavior and one that needs to be corrected.

[linnea]

If you are a crossdresser and you think that crossdressing needs to be corrected, then you should take the initiative and correct yourself. If you can't accomplish this on your own, seek help (counseling or psychiatric care).
I don't happen to think that crossdressing is abnormal; I believe that it is one of many forms of self-expression in a broad range of self-expression. Further, I think that for some crossdressers their crossdressing involves some genetic influences and certainly when it comes to how crossdressers dress there are social and cultural influences.
But once you venture into the "normal" discussion, you are moving in very vague, if not impossible, territory.
The deceptions practiced by some crossdressers is yet another complicated realm. Some maintain secrecy because they fear recriminations from employers, mockery from associates, and snubs from strangers. The general population of American society has not responded to crossdressing with a lot of empathy or understanding.
As to selfishness, I think that anyone who puts time, money, energy, and effort into a pastime, hobby, activity might be accused of behaving selfishly because those resources might be used to the limitation or detriment of others and their desires. But this is hardly unique to crossdressing and crossdressers. Bowlers, fishers, stamp collectors, sports enthusiasts, car hobbyist, house restorers, etc.--all can and have taken their pursuits to extreme levels (or what non-enthusiasts might deem extreme levels).
I don't really know what aperture you're talking out of. I don't take offense at your questions or your insinuations. I do, however, think that you've over-generalized.

[Deedee Dupree]

At first those who were subject to the most severe gender conditioning, those who took the lies to heart, especially at a young age ... lied to themselves(denial) and to others to conceal the unacceptable. Over a period of time some realize, although they are in a minority with respect to the general public, they are in fact an authentic variety of human being that is not sick. And within our community with it's wide variety we don't have to lie to our selves or others. We are all a "normal" part of our community. It may be true that there are some who are selfish, totally self contained individuals, who use convienient
"norms" as a cover, but that is another issue.

IMO, The correction required is first, the education that leads to self acceptace, then to promote acceptance among the general public in ways that are not detrimental to one's situation

dd

[Tanya C]

Crossdressing is not an affliction, self loathing is. You can waste time beating your head against a wall over something that is an indelible part of your personality, or you can choose to accept and embrace it.
I hope you make the healthy choice.

Tanya

[trannie T]

Crossdressing may not meet your defination of "normal" but it is a common activity. Some crossdressers do lie to others about their lives. I doubt that many of us have chosen to be crossdressers, rather crossdressing is simply an irreversable part of our personalities. Sadly there are some of us who have not accepted that part of our psyche. Self loathing is a self destructive behavior. Nothing good comes of self loathing.

[VikkiVixen7188]

If your a crossdresser then you need to stop hating yourself. I have never lied, in fact I make for an extremely passable girl and go out of my way to correct peoples.. I don't think it is normal, but that doesn't mean it is an illness either.

If your not a crossdresser, than have a coke and a smile and piss off. Your coke and smile have been provided

[Lisa Golightly]

This is your own issue... and there are plenty out there that consider you need 'correcting'. You need to seek them out... They'll only be too happy to help you, but they are a strange bunch with extremist ideas.

For the others here who accept themselves and just lead normal lives... Self-loathing is not an option... or if it was it lies in a dim and distant past when we were too immature to understand who we were.

[Sheila]

I'm sure that the response on this forum will be mostly that [SIZE="2"]what I think is wrong and that I am talking out of my a$$.[/SIZE]

I am a GG so come at it from a slightly different angle from CDER and Yeah I can agree with the quote above especilally the bit in red.

Each of us have the right to different opinions so you do have the right to yours as I do mine

[GypsyKaren]

If you can't respond without insults then don't respond at all, I'm deleting them and you're just buying yourself trouble.

Karen

[Mollyanne]

If you are a crossdresser and you think that crossdressing needs to be corrected, then you should take the initiative and correct yourself. If you can't accomplish this on your own, seek help (counseling or psychiatric care).
I don't happen to think that crossdressing is abnormal; I believe that it is one of many forms of self-expression in a broad range of self-expression. Further, I think that for some crossdressers their crossdressing involves some genetic influences and certainly when it comes to how crossdressers dress there are social and cultural influences.
But once you venture into the "normal" discussion, you are moving in very vague, if not impossible, territory.
The deceptions practiced by some crossdressers is yet another complicated realm. Some maintain secrecy because they fear recriminations from employers, mockery from associates, and snubs from strangers. The general population of American society has not responded to crossdressing with a lot of empathy or understanding.
As to selfishness, I think that anyone who puts time, money, energy, and effort into a pastime, hobby, activity might be accused of behaving selfishly because those resources might be used to the limitation or detriment of others and their desires. But this is hardly unique to crossdressing and crossdressers. Bowlers, fishers, stamp collectors, sports enthusiasts, car hobbyist, house restorers, etc.--all can and have taken their pursuits to extreme levels (or what non-enthusiasts might deem extreme levels).
I don't really know what aperture you're talking out of. I don't take offense at your questions or your insinuations. I do, however, think that you've over-generalized.

WOW, COULDN'T HAVE SAID IT BETTER!!!!!!!

Mollyanne

[MissConstrued]

However, I am becoming more steadfast in the idea that crossdressing is not a normal human behavior

Of course it isn't. But for a few hundred thousand years, neither was sitting your ass on a couch watching football. Or driving a car. Or wearing shoes. Or wearing condoms.


Define normal! Then ask yourself why you should give a shit.

[Sammy777]

The common idea on this forum is that crossdressing is a normal or atleast relatively normal thing.
However, I am becoming more steadfast in the idea that crossdressing is not a normal human behavior.

that what they are is normal and not a problem or that they are just a neutral gender and not possibly a homosexual.

I think once we cut through the CD'ing BS we come to the real root of your problem that is plainly stated in the last part quoted above.

It seems you are using CD'ing as a way to cover your real feelings of thinking homosexuality is "not normal and should be corrected".

Just a though.

[battybattybats]

It's not lying anymore than being gay is lying.

People have no right to expect a woman or a man will be straight. So they have no right to expect everyone in a skirt has XX chromosomes and not XY or XXY etc etc (lets not forget the Intersex folk, they are 1 in every 60 or so people after all)

Even if you pass no-one has a right to expect what structure exists in your panties or to assume you will want them getting into them.

And a few hundred years ago in most of the world CDs were an understood and accepted part of daily life in much of the world.

Not every CD is closeted, and those who are start in the closet because of transphobia and so thats not our fault but something we suffer! The blame for the closets existence is on those who forced CDing into a punished taboo.

But it is up to us to undo that (as no-one will do it for us) so our responsibility is to undo that once we can.. if we have a responsibility to be open about being a CD it first requires overcoming Internalised Transphobia that we are not to blame for suffering.

I'm out to most people I know. I came out to my ex GF of nearly 6 years in about a week or so of the first date. My day-to-day presentation is of mixed-gender expression and plenty of people who've seen me fully en-femme have recognised me.

It's normal. It's existed for thousands of years in every human society. It's not selfish.

[jessiejess112]

I can see how the wife of a cd that does not approve of this behavior, might think that crossdressing is a problem that needs to be corrected. But when you are a cd, you are born this way: crossdressing is not something that you can just turn off.
You know sometimes I do wish I could just turn these feelings off: I spend way too much money on buying women's clothes that I only wear in private. And crossdressing takes up way too much of my time and effort.
Not to mention worrying constantly about my conservative Family finding out that I'm a crossdresser. But it is part of my personality and it is something that I have learn to live with. To be honest, I also enjoy seeing how I look after all the trouble I go through: this is how I am and I can only control it to a certain extent, but I can't change it.
Since I am single, my crossdressing does not affect anybody but me, the question is what do I do when and if, I find the girl that I want to marry. From what I've read in this forum, SO's reactions are very unpredictable.
So your post is interesting because it did make me think about how a person who disapproves of crossdressing might view me.

[Tracey Corset]

The common idea on this forum is that crossdressing is a normal or atleast relatively normal thing. I've been thinking is it normal though, are crossdressers just liars, they lie to others, not being what they seem, and/or they lie to themselves, that what they are is normal and not a problem or that they are just a neutral gender and not possibly a homosexual. The other idea is that it's based in selfishness all about indulging themselves and not caring enough about others, looking to themselves to acheive what they want.

I'm sure that the response on this forum will be mostly that what I think is wrong and that I am talking out of my ass. However, I am becoming more steadfast in the idea that crossdressing is not a normal human behavior and one that needs to be corrected.

Andrea you sound very bitter to me

The other idea is that it's based in selfishness all about indulging themselves and not caring enough about others, looking to themselves to acheive what they want.

If i were the selfish type i would be dressed as a girl 24/7 and not worry about my wife and familys feelings, but as it is i have a wife who loves the female me but doesnt want the rest of the family to know, thats fair enough, i think you have deeper underlying issues here and maybe you need to talk to someone

[Samantha Kelsey]

Normal?

Normality is relative. In certain parts of the Amazon jungle it's totally normal to walk about totally naked but if you did it in the centre of New York I would guess you'd be classed as very Abnormal.

In my opinion it would seem that these days it's totally normal to lie, cheat and be selfish, not that I think it's right but it just be that way.

As for 'Not telling' well, thats not lying. If the governments of the world told all then there would be chaos. We all have a right 'not to tell'. Isn't there an amendment in the USA for just this? and in the UK arrested people are told "You don't have to say anything but...." Maybe I'm wrong, you tell me.

As for me, open and upfront, Not gay, my girlfriend knew all about me before she met me and ALL my family and close friends know about me. I told them.
Perhaps I'm not normal eh..?

[Honeygirl]

I'm sorry but I cannot help wonder if sometimes a post like this is written to create as much response as possible.

I am not suggesting there may not be genuine questions behind the original post but I'm sorry I didn't feel it was written with alot of consideration or sensitivity to those who would ulitmately take time out to think about the points raised and take the trouble to reply. Perhaps it was originally written out of personal frustrations than any intentional lack of sensitivity?

I really do hope you do find the answers you are looking for, truly I do.

For 'my two pennies worth' I would like to thank Linnea at the very start of the responses to this thread as I felt you said everything I wanted to say!

Hugs
Honey.

[Georgia Rose]

The common idea on this forum is that crossdressing is a normal or atleast relatively normal thing. However, I am becoming more steadfast in the idea that crossdressing is not a normal human behavior and one that needs to be corrected.

I've cut out the stuff that doesn't matter. Please tell me what is normal. If you got any sizeable group of people together very few of them would be "normal". Each and everyone of them is different in many ways. Society just glosses over the abnormalities of most people and tries to put us all in a box called "normal". Especially when the difference is related to some sexual aspect (like dressing as the opposit sex) a personal is considered "not normal". Human's have a herd mentality and feel threatened by things they don't understand and so it is easy to dismiss anyone who is different as not "normal". In reality who cares!

[Ze xx]

[SIZE="2"]Firstly define 'normal'.

Secondly, as to it being a selfish thing, well, yes it can be, but so can so called 'normal' hobbies and habits if they are done to the exclusion of all others. It's just as selfish to be a 'normal' heterosexual male who spends all weekend fishing as it is to want to spend all your time dressing and paying no attention to your partner and/or family.[/SIZE]

[Jazzmine]

If you ran a contest across the whole nation to find 'the most normal person' you would indeed eventually narrow it down to the one person who was most normal - the winner of the contest.

Yet even that person would have a high degree of uniqueness about them and do some things which were quite 'abnormal'.

The point is, there is only uniqueness in this world. All this uniqueness makes up normal. Everything is normal in some way or another and yet we are all unique. Go figure!

If you try and be 'normal' you would never achieve it because even normal people have choices to make every day and thus become unique because of it.

Go ahead and beat yourself up about being a CD - 'correct' it as you say- but please do not claim that you are 'normal' once it's done. You will never achieve 'normalness' because it is a subjective myth! (or maybe a halucination imposed by BIG BROTHER ...aaargghh ... as they carried me away to the normal brainwashing school)

Hugs Jazzmine

[Jeanna]

I'm sure that the response on this forum will be mostly that what I think is wrong and that I am talking out of my ass. However, I am becoming more steadfast in the idea that crossdressing is not a normal human behavior and one that needs to be corrected.[/QUOTE]

First of all,most of us are looking for acceptance for something we can't cure nor should we have to,we're not sick.I really angers me when someone puts the "oh you need mental help because you like to wear women's clothing". If you realy want to help in this forum,tell us how to put on hose with long nails,walk and talk like a lady and to just accept that we are normal people in a not so normal world!

Of course it isn't. But for a few hundred thousand years, neither was sitting your ass on a couch watching football. Or driving a car. Or wearing shoes. Or wearing condoms.


Define normal! Then ask yourself why you should give a shit.

Well said

[gender_blender]

The common idea on this forum is that crossdressing is a normal or atleast relatively normal thing. I've been thinking is it normal though, are crossdressers just liars, they lie to others, not being what they seem, and/or they lie to themselves, that what they are is normal and not a problem or that they are just a neutral gender and not possibly a homosexual. The other idea is that it's based in selfishness all about indulging themselves and not caring enough about others, looking to themselves to acheive what they want.

I'm sure that the response on this forum will be mostly that what I think is wrong and that I am talking out of my ass. However, I am becoming more steadfast in the idea that crossdressing is not a normal human behavior and one that needs to be corrected.

I somewhat agree with your conservative statements, however "lying" implies a malicious intent. I think that some mislead without disclosing the fact that they're transgender, which is why I'm always honest and upfront since I've been on the receiving end of some unintentional misleading because I pass pretty well without trying.

It is the curse of society to promote distinct gender roles and blatant stereotypical assumptions.

[DinaMature]

I'm challenged to know where to start in responding to this post. I did check your profile and see you've been a member for quite some time; certainly much longer than I've been here. I do not know how old you are, and that might be relevant in my assessment of your remarks here.

Perhaps the one remark that most demands response is the assertion that crossdressing isn't normal and needs correction, followed closely by (what I intrepret as) the thinly veiled 'accusation' that we are homosexual.
Your extensive tenure here does give these remarks more impact... I'd expect these from a newcomer, a potential lurker. I'd certainly not expect them from someone whose been through so much time apparently walking the walk.

My response? I feel like you're in some funk, the proverbial 'self loathing'; I think like many humans you generalize your reality onto the group around you; I do know my own reality belies any truth in your assessment.

I'm not gay... I've had my own encounters that have successfully freed me from that concern. I can't be 'repaired' or 'corrected'... that would imply something is 'wrong'.

If life isn't working out for you, it's not correct behaviour to spread your misery, seeking validation that the current situation isn't 'your fault'. Instead, seek counsel, seek solace but don't act like a cornered wounded animal that becomes destructive out of pain and fear. Your current state of mind is the same one that causes feral mothers to eat their young.

I can't speak to what ails you, I certainly can't suggest a cure. Prayer and spiritual insight might be suggested, a time on the couch of a counselor or psychiatrist could help you examine your situation more fully.

But broad accusations cast upon your peers won't change the group or free you from your own chains of angst.

Frankly, there is too much good in the world for me to worry much about your assessment of me/us, I don't know you well enough to care or condemn, I do hope you find solace and redemption.

May god be with you.

[Charlena]

I believe if everyone was allowed (or brave enough) to be who they truely are then we would have to rewrite the difinitions of weird and normal.

[Kate Simmons]

Being "normal" notwithstanding, most of us just do the best we can with what we have to work with my friend.