Aspergers Autism and Transgender

[battybattybats]

Some round the net have suggested that Aspergers and Autism are more common amongst Transgender and Intersex people than the general population. An interesting idea that could have a substantial impact on our understanding if true. As yet I've not heard of any good studies on this though.

I know a few Aspies, some are good friends and a friend from school has a child with quite bad Autism. A few TGs i know online but offboard are Aspies too both MtF and FtM.

It might be valuable to discuss peoples experiences having these conditions for those here with it and the experiences of those with family and friends etc with Aspergers and Autism and how these may or may not relate to and/or effect their experiences as crossdressers transsexuals etc.

[linnea]

I have no direct knowledge of either of these; I've read about them. I have known some children with autism too, but no one in my family and extended family (cousins, uncles, aunts, etc.) have autism or autistic children. It's an interesting question.

[Joni Marie Cruz]

Haven't heard that one, Bats, but have heard that most TGers tend to have higher than average intelligence. Let's just go with that one.<g>

Hugs...Joni Mari

[Miranda-E]

there are different types of autism. The cassical organic autism and "learned" or clinical autism, first theorised by Rutter and Federici when studying high autism rates in adoted children. These children “learned” to be autistic because of their experiences in orphanages and foster homes: such self-stimulating behavior as rocking, picking at themselves and head banging, withdrawal, enuresis and encopresis, limited verbal expression, rituals, and emotional outbursts in response to changes in routine were the ways with which the institutionalized children learned to fill the gaps in their lonely and desperate lives. Over the time they practiced these behaviors as a defense mechanism to block out pain and misery and had ultimately become self-absorbed and withdrawn in a way similar to children with organic autistic conditions.

The major distinguisher between organic-based and institutional autism is a positive dynamic in the child's development of appropriate behaviors in the family. Most behaviors originating in organic-based autism will stay, showing small and slow changes, while the same identifiable behaviors associated with institutional autism should diminish progressively until complete disappearance (although they may re-surface in response to stress and environmental challenges).

The stresses that cause such a high rate of clinical autism in adopted/foster children are the same causes of a high rate of clinical autism in transgender children and transgender that are still repressed in later life. Clinical autism symptoms will often disappear in children after 12-18 months after being plased in a good loving home,Its also why so many TG people are so well adjusted after breaking free of repressive/unsupportive domestic situations


Another distinguisher is the severity of the problems and the constellation of symptoms. In organic-based autism the symptoms are usually more clearly defined and presented in well-known clusters described in the professional literature; in institutional autism only separate patterns of autistic behavior are present, they are not consistent, and they are not clearly expressed or easily explained by environmental circumstances. face shielding is a classic symptom of organic
autism that is often seen in clinical autism but as a stand alone sympom.

[GaleWarning]

For three years I was a teacher-aide for a young man with Aspergers.

On the positive side, he is articulate. He could answer difficult questions in the subjects he took, oten in one well-worded sentence. Others would produce a page of twaddle. He is certainly uber-intelligent. He is highly computer literate. For fun, he would play a new computer game to the highest level as quickly as possible, then change the specifications to make things more difficult. He would scroll down the programme text (which seemed like gobble de gook to me) and instantly pick out the line that needed to be modified. Amazing!

On the negative side, he has no understanding of affect. Feelings (both his own and others) are meaningless. He relates badly to women. He cannot follow a conversation in a group of people. He is easily frustrated. He can become violent.

Could he be a closet crossdresser? I doubt it.

I think that his autism is genetic. His father is probably autistic, his brother also displayed symptoms.

[Nicki B]

Of the few I know with Aspergers, none are trans (although one is married to a trans-woman).

Of the few IS and many T-folk I know, none have Aspergers, only one another form of autism.. I know, not scientific - just my experience?

[Persephone]

there are different types of autism. The cassical organic autism and "learned" or clinical autism, first theorised by Rutter and Federici when studying high autism rates in adoted children. . .

Excellent post, Miranda! Thank you!

[Wrenchette]

My step son has aspergers. We do not get along well. He does not crossdress nor is he transgendered. He also doesn't even notice me when I am dressed.

He's basically a good kid, he just doesn't use any of his potiential, he's very lazy and he gets way too mouthy towards me. All he does is sit in his room and play world of warcraft and ignore myself and his mother when he is asked to do something until one of us finally shuts off the internet. It gets real aggravating.

I guess I should have more patience, it just seems to be that the more patience I try to have and the nicer I try to be, the worse he gets. We pretty much just ignore each other right now.

[Nicki B]

He's basically a good kid, he just doesn't use any of his potiential, he's very lazy and he gets way too mouthy towards me. All he does is sit in his room and play world of warcraft and ignore myself and his mother when he is asked to do something until one of us finally shuts off the internet. It gets real aggravating.

I guess I should have more patience, it just seems to be that the more patience I try to have and the nicer I try to be, the worse he gets. We pretty much just ignore each other right now.

And he'd be a teenager, right?

[Alice Torn]

There was a part time late night radio talk show host, in Seattle, and he admitted he has Asperger's. The man was an old bachelor, like me, was very high I.Q., was brilliant in recall, memory, knowledge. He struggled with relationships, too. I don't know if he cd.s. What host would admit it?! I also had a neighbor, who's son has autism, and showed no sign of cd. My mom, and my siblings, and i, all have Alzheimers, or emotional /nervous disorders. As far as i know, i alone cd.

[DameErrant]

As a CDing Aspie, I can say that I don't know of any others, though I do suspect that some others in my support group may have been affected to one degree or another. Most fit at least some of the characteristics, but since each of us Aspies is unique, it would take a professional to tell for sure. In general they were of more than average intelligence, their SOs put in most of the work in their relationships, but when it came to respecting others, they showed more than any other group I have been a part of. But I conjure that few would submit to a study, as it could have affected their security clearances.

Of course, my group may have been unusual anyway, since they were politically conservative to a much greater degree than I have found most posters here to be. But that's not a scientific sample.

[Ann D Bluebird]

there are different types of autism. The cassical organic autism and "learned" or clinical autism, first theorised by Rutter and Federici when studying high autism rates in adoted children. ...........

I suspect Batty was simply asking about people with an Autism Spectrum Disorder (which includes people with Asperger syndrome and those with classic "Kanners" autism as well as other prevasive developmental disorders with "autistic like" characteristics. I suspect Rutter and Federici's "learned" autism is not an Autistic Spectrum Disorder per se and so refering to it is not really relevant to Batty's question

I suspect people with Asperger syndrome may be the more likely grouping of people on the spectrum to be transgender, however it is theorised (Simon Baron-Cohen) that people with ASD in some sense have an "extreme male brain" which does not quite (I would have thought) predispose people with ASD towards identifying with the transgender community. In my time here I have, however, noted a few people who identified themselves as having asperger syndrome and as trangender.



The transgender spectrum clearly does include some on the Austism spectrum, I personally suspect this would be a minority within our minority, however.

[emmicd]

i'm not sure if there is a connection between tg/cd and autism. i do know autistic individuals have great struggles in social situations especially individuals who are diagnosed with asperger's syndrome. i also know that autistic individuals usually live in their own world and sometimes it is hard to penetrate their world. i know as a crossdresser i live part of my life in my own little world that i don't share with others so i would believe we have similar experiences as individuals with autism. i am also the father of a child diagnosed with asperger's syndrome.

emmi

[AspieGayBoy]

I have Asperger's Syndrome. I'm a transsexual. I was teased a lot and called gay and faggot by a lot of people. I took it to heart and started to believe it. Eventually it became the truth. I actually have crushed on a few bullies from middle and high school

[battybattybats]

I was indeed only referring to neurological autism-spectrum variance (i wouldn't call disordered something like aspergers which appears to have contributed much to human scientific and technological achievement and development).

Some people have quoted on the net that autism-spectrum is four times higher amonsgt TG and IS than Cis which if true would still mean plenty of autistic are Cis and plenty of TG non-autistic, just that its more common.. but I note that Zoe Brain has not been able thus far to find a study on this so it may just be conjecture.

As for the extreme-male-brain... well many different parts of the brain appear to be sex-differentiated, depending on which might be cross-sexed may result in someone being Gay or TS etc so perhaps having an extreme-male brain in some parts and feminine brain in other brain parts could explain this the same was as it explains a lesbian TS.

[Anne-Marie]

Interesting thread Batty.

From the limited work I have done with people on the spectrum and those with Aspergers as a professional in LD teams, and people with Aspergers specifically as a part of a CMHT I could not say that the incidence of cross dressing or trans type behaviours is any greater than the general population.

Unless I see research to show otherwise I'm putting this down to idiots trying to slur the trans community.