How many on this site consider themselves TGirls as oppsoed to CDers...???

[BreenaDion]

Hand the pills over.
Have the surgeon clean his Knife.
Together we make music.
Because on that day.
I will be FREE !!!

Love Bree

[Julogden]

Boy (or girl) do I have to agree with you on that thought there Julogden. I've always been confused as to what the hell that meant. It was really vague and seemed to paint everyone with a generalized gender brush. 20 years ago when I was just getting used to being a TV, it gets changed to politically correct CD, then someone at a TV?CD meeting comes along and mentions the TG abbreivation and I ask "what the hell is that'? I know what the CD is and TS is in a class of its own as a transexual, but now we get a TG? , now its shortened to T-Girl. WTF?
Don't shoot g-men?

pretty Boy Floyd

Actually, the TG term began as a description of those who live more-or-less full time in a gender role opposite their birth gender without getting gender reassignment surgery. Over time it has become a somewhat nebulous umbrella term that covers everyone whose gender presentation varies in almost any way.

"Transvestite" means exactly the same thing as "crossdresser." It's wearing clothing considered to be for the opposite sex. There is no further connotation to it.

The term "transvestite" is a clinical term, originally used to describe fetishistic males who become sexually excited as a result of wearing women's clothing. The term "crossdresser" is more of a self-definition that our community came up with, something we felt more comfortable with. Yes, they technically mean the same thing, but their origins are very different, and their connotations are different, at least to those of us who have been around the community for a long time.

Carol

[Elizebeth]

A crossdresser nothing more but is it not just grand that way.

[Sarah Renee]

Hi Sherry,
This is a good question that I've thought about. I consider myself a girl and like others have said I feel cross-dressed when in male mode. I will not go as far as having SRS, however my dream would be to live full-time as a woman. Unfortunately I do not see that happening. I wish I would have transitioned when I was younger.

[KaTrina_LaNegrita]

A lot of my friends call me "Tranny"..based on the my body, but it's all natural. So Between TG & CD..I'm a proud CD

[Nicki B]

Try saying that to my Transgendered friend, she wouldn't be happy.

Well I regard myself as transgender...

I know post-ops who would get violently angry to be called TS - they would regard themselves as 'women'.

The term "crossdresser" is more of a self-definition that our community came up with, something we felt more comfortable with.

By 'our community' - you mean Tri-Ess. Which is a solely US organisation..

[MsJanessa]

I consider Myself both

[sarahNZ]

Ok once when I was really really young I might have told you (after watching a docco about some NZ trans sexuals) that I was one of them, but that would have gone down like a lead baloon in my mothers house! Now all these years later, after spending the last 31 years in male form, I think I can say that I am just a plain old CD'er. I enjoy dressing and feeling feminin but I don't think I would ever go further, after all even with hormones and SRS the newly found fem parts would all remain "unpluged". If I knew that the docs could make me into the woman in my dreams with all working parts intact and opperational, and give me the body that I desired then I would concider going further, but as they can't... a CD I'll stay.

[dawnmarrie1961]

I don't like labels. It degrades us all. I am simply being myself. When I look in the mirror I see who I am. It's just "Me"!

Labels are for shopping. I'm not shopping anymore. I know who I am.

[Cheryl T]

I certainly feel I am more transgendered than a crossdresser. It's not the clothes that make me feel feminine. I always feel that way.
The clothes just help me express that feeling to the rest of the world.

[Julogden]

By 'our community' - you mean Tri-Ess. Which is a solely US organisation..

Tri-Ess had links with a British support group back then (early-to-mid 1970's), can't remember the name of it though (maybe the Beaumont Society?), and whether you like them or not, Tri-Ess is part of our community.

However, I don't recall that the term was coined by Tri-Ess specifically though. I do remember Virginia Prince suggesting the term femmiphile, which thankfully never caught on.

Anyway, I'm not sure what your point is.

Carol

[Deb The Brunette]

Do I really care anyway? ............
and.....

.

[PaulaJaneThomas]

can't remember the name of it though (maybe the Beaumont Society?),l

I've been a member of the Beaumont for many, many years and I've never heard or read of any links with Tri-Ess or any other group from the USA. I certainly don't consider us being part of the same community in any sense. Quite the reverse.

[Nicki B]

Anyway, I'm not sure what your point is.

I was trying to gently point out that you were excluding all those of us who don't live in the US...

[Empress Lainie]

[SIZE=4]Just searched to make sure I had not already posted on this thread.

I never did any CD before my transition day. I consider myself to be a woman (with some wrong parts), and hate having anything male associated with me.[/SIZE]

[Leilani68]

As my wife and I agree, Definately a T-Girl...........

[Hali]

I often/always ask myself whether am male or female almost every minute. When i think of myself as a guy i feel like i have some heavy load i have to carry around, but when i think of myself as a woman i feel relieved of that load, i feel light and happy.

I find it hard to live a guys life style. I dont care what is expected from men or women in any society all i know is that right from the time i become aware of myself as human i knew i didnt like hair on my body be it my face or on my arms, i like to have pretty clothes not dull, i like looking at the mirror a lot my mum use to complain, i have some sitting positions which i find comfortable which most pple feel its kinda girly, i like to cry for no reason especially when watching romantic movies, always afraid of getting bruized or hurt, i also painting my face and my nails with colors, i like to have long hair, when i see women i feel yeah thats me and i see guys i feel what is that? all my role models are women ..............yet i have my masculine side which is also always with me............ sometimes i feel like i hate myself.

T-girl or crossdresser..........i think am all at one time or the next

[noeleena]

Hi ....A transfemale who.s an andro . living as a woman ..
...noeleena...

[Barbara918]

Just a wolf in sheep's clothing here.

[Raquel June]

As you can see looking through these posts, there are a lot of people out there who call themselves crossdressers but have transgender feelings, and many of them are in a sort of state of denial because they don't want to disturb their family situation, or because they're afraid. Don't make excuses. Don't say "I'm too old" -- a 65-year-old friend of mine just got SRS two years ago. Just be honest with yourself. It's OK to admit you're afraid to transition. I'm a huge wimp, and the whole idea of being TS is terrifying.

The term "tgirl" is ambiguous. It could mean TS or TG. TG is an umbrella term that covers both TS and CD. I regard myself as CD and hence as TG. I would never give up my male side. I sometimes think of myself as bi-gendered, although that term is used in different ways.

Yeah, T-girl could mean either Transgender-girl or Transsexual-girl. But since when is TG an umbrella that covers CDs? Look at the words. Crossdressing is about clothes. Transgendered is about gender. Obviously you can identify as both a crossdresser and as transgendered, or as varying degrees of either, but the bottom line is that crossdressing simply means wearing the clothes of the opposite sex and that does not necessarily make you transgendered. TG does not include all CDs -- certainly not the fetishistic ones.

Wow.. Yet again, divided by a common language.

I've never met people before who define TGirl as equivalent to TS - it's always, IME, been intended as a wide, catch-all term for everybody? The T, btw, can stand for whatever you want

The "T" in "T-girl" stands for whatever you want??? It's a catch-all for everybody? So, in your experience, people commonly call their mother, father, brothers, sisters, neighbors and pets T-girls? That's obviously asinine.

T-girl is simply an abbreviation. It can be an abbreviation for either Transsexual-girl or Transgendered-girl. The point in an abbreviation is that it is a shortening of a term that is in common use. If several members lived in the Tunisian Republic then maybe we'd start using T-girl to refer to them, too, but the "T" in "T-girl" obviously doesn't mean "crossdresser."

Divided by a common language? More like divided by a lack of common sense.

Am illness 10 years ago left me incapale of being able to do the manly thing..so what woman would be interested in me. I'm not interested in totally transitionng and have the plumbing removed because I am not opposed to my maleness...I'm just thinking of improving on my female presentation...

There are a lot of women who aren't interested in sex. Don't try to be something you're not just because you don't think people will be into you. Sure, not as many women will be interested, but if you like women then don't give up on them as a gender.

Tgirl or Tranny is VERY offensive to most Transgendered people. Almost as offensive as the N-word is to black people.

I don't find T-girl offensive. But I don't find many things offensive -- except "gurl" -- that one really makes me shudder. It's probably good to equate "tranny" to the N word. I would be very offended if someone who didn't like me called me a tranny, but among TG friends we call each other tranny sometimes in a very friendly way.

Second off, Crossdressers and Transgendered people are NOT the same. The difference is obvious. We live as men and not full time as women. Transgendered people live FULL TIME as the other gender.

Simply feeling female makes you transgendered. I would also argue that you need to have the desire to be accepted and treated as female by others. After all, we don't know how anybody feels. I don't know how the average female feels. I don't know how the average male feels. I just know how I feel, and whether that is labeled as male or female is just semantics. The point is that I want to be accepted as female.

But you don't have to present as female full time to be TG. I know many people who are TG -- many of whom are on hormones -- who do not present as female 24/7.

The most accepted definition of transsexual is:

"The desire to live and be accepted as a member of the opposite sex, usually accompanied by the wish to make his or her body as congruent as possible with the preferred sex through surgery and hormone treatment"

People have different feelings regarding whether or not you need a strong drive to get SRS to be considered transsexual, and some people even argue that you're not really transsexual if you're not full time. That's why we have the more encompassing term transgendered so that there isn't bickering about whether or not someone's really transsexual. But there's nothing wrong with anybody who dreams of being accepted as the opposite sex being called transgendered whether or not they're dressed like it, whether or not they want surgery. I usually call myself TG because I don't want to stir up the trannier-than-thou crowd of transsexuals.

[Julogden]

I've been a member of the Beaumont for many, many years and I've never heard or read of any links with Tri-Ess or any other group from the USA. I certainly don't consider us being part of the same community in any sense. Quite the reverse.

I am totally at a loss to see your logic here. Both are support organizations for transgendered people. How can they possibly NOT be part of the same community?

Are you saying that American TG people and UK TG people are different communities? I'd say that we are all part of the same global community, the differences in culture are rather minor, IMO.

I didn't say that I was sure that it was the Beaumont Society that Virginia Prince had ties with. I just vaguely remember that back in the 1970's, she visited Great Britain and had forged some sort of relationship with a leader of a large support group there, and guessed that the Beaumont Society may have been the organization as it's a large, successful organization with a rather long history. It wasn't a formal association, rather it was a casual affiliation, sort of sisters-under-the-skin sort of thing. It may very well have been a different group.

I was trying to gently point out that you were excluding all those of us who don't live in the US...

Sorry! I thought that the term "crossdresser" was used over there too. Live and learn. What I said holds true for American CD's anyway, if not for you UK folks.

But since when is TG an umbrella that covers CDs? Look at the words. Crossdressing is about clothes. Transgendered is about gender.

For several years, the term "transgender" has been a catch-all phrase to cover anyone who presents in any kind of a cross-gendered manner, including crossdressers, who are exhibiting cross-gender behavior in their mode of dressing. The term "T-girl" is more recent, and if memory serves, was originated by the purveyors of porn associated with transgendered girls. That was the first place I ever saw the term anyway, and ever since, it's carried a negative connotation for me.

Carol

[PaulaJaneThomas]

I am totally at a loss to see your logic here. Both are support organizations for transgendered people. How can they possibly NOT be part of the same community?

Are you saying that American TG people and UK TG people are different communities? I'd say that we are all part of the same global community, the differences in culture are rather minor, IMO.

It has nothing to do with being transgender.Being transgender is no more a definer of community than say having blue eyes is. For me the cultural differences are so huge that I feel no more connection with American trans people than I do with a starving child in Africa.

I didn't say that I was sure that it was the Beaumont Society that Virginia Prince had ties with. I just vaguely remember that back in the 1970's, she visited Great Britain and had forged some sort of relationship with a leader of a large support group there, and guessed that the Beaumont Society may have been the organization as it's a large, successful organization with a rather long history. It wasn't a formal association, rather it was a casual affiliation, sort of sisters-under-the-skin sort of thing. It may very well have been a different group.

It would have had to have been the Beaumont. But a holiday visit to a now long dead leader hardly constitutes an affiliation. If fact, given the overtly homophobic nature of Tri-Ess that they currently display on their web site:

An international social and support group for heterosexual crossdressers, their partners, the spouses of married crossdressers and their families.

I doubt that anyone from this side of the Atlantic would want anything to do with them. Certainly any group in the UK which advertised itself as such would be breaking the law. If you want an example of how fundamentally different UK and US society are then that's a very good example.

[Kristen-Gaye]

I'm definately a CD & I'm more than happy with that!

[Elle44]

After many years of contemplation, understanding and self awareness, I can say that for me, it is far more than "just about the clothes" so I cannot simply consider myself a crossdresser.


jenn

I agree with jenn, but it really didn't take me long to figure it out. I dabbled in crossdress since my youth, my sister dressed me pre school in dresses, petticoats and ruffled pantie's, she was 2 years older and wanted a sister. I could go on with this, but it's a long story.

I was home alone at the age of 13. I put on my sisters bra, pantie's, nylon stockings with garter belt (no such thing as pantyhose or thi hi's back in '57) a dress, a pair of my mothers heels, lipstick, clip on earrings and a pearl necklace and perfume. When I looked in the mirror, really looked in my own eyes, and felt how wonderful it felt wearing feminine clothes I knew then I had the wrong body, I wanted and should have been a girl.

Now I've been to other cd sites and I see men who are, in my mind crossdressers, a pair of pantie's and or bra, pantyhose all on hairy body's, full beards and very manly. I really don't know if they feel like a woman inside like I do and have all these years.

I too consider myself Transgender, it comes from within, LOL I love Lane Bryants lingerie catalog, The Woman Within. I think some of us knew it early on in life. I just didn't wake up one day and decide to dress in female attire, cause I just want to be a female. No, no, no, if you got it there's no denying it and it's stayed with me for 65 years so far, and I love it. My men's clothes that I am forced to wear are my drag clothes and have been for many years. My dresses, skirts, nightgowns, my bra's and pantie's and high heeled shoes and my makeup are my normal clothing.

[Julogden]

It has nothing to do with being transgender.Being transgender is no more a definer of community than say having blue eyes is. For me the cultural differences are so huge that I feel no more connection with American trans people than I do with a starving child in Africa.



It would have had to have been the Beaumont. But a holiday visit to a now long dead leader hardly constitutes an affiliation. If fact, given the overtly homophobic nature of Tri-Ess that they currently display on their web site:



I doubt that anyone from this side of the Atlantic would want anything to do with them. Certainly any group in the UK which advertised itself as such would be breaking the law. If you want an example of how fundamentally different UK and US society are then that's a very good example.

I guess we have to agree to disagree then. I don't see the differences. Certainly there are cultural differences, but as far as I'm concerned, we're part of the same community. Reading this forum, I see Brits and Yanks doing exactly the same things, experiencing the same emotions. I've occasionally met British CD's visiting over here, including one who moved here to live (and was a Chicago-chapter Tri-Ess member, by the way), and never heard anything like that from them, rather they fit in quite easily and happily.

I was a member of the Chicago chapter of Tri-Ess many years ago, joined in the mid-1970's as a non-attending member, started attending meetings around 1985 and left in the early 1990's, and they were definitely NOT a homophobic group. No one was ever turned away from support, in that chapter anyway. Many, many people have received a lot of help from Tri-Ess over the years. I would urge you to not judge the organization unless you experience it personally. There's a lot of BS in print that accuses them of being some sort of evil, conservative, exclusive organization, and that is about as far from the truth as you can get. While I have no desire to be a member any more, I will defend them from such drivel when I can.

Yes, Tri-Ess focuses on issues specific to straight CD's and their SO's, but so what? That group has specific issues that other segments of the community don't have. Do you dislike support organizations that restrict membership to TS's only? If not, why not? If Tri-Ess is guilty of discrimination, then why aren't TS-only groups guilty of it too? Let's face it, focused support is NOT discrimination.

Lastly, I never said definitively that there was a formal affiliation between the two groups, rather that I thought I remembered something about some kind of affiliation. Evidently, there was no lasting affiliation. I was just making conversation, adding what I recalled from years ago.

You're certainly free to dislike us Americans, but I don't think that this is an appropriate place to be venting your bias.

Edit: I just did a bit of searching and came up with some information for you. Prior to Tri-Ess, Virginia Prince's organization was called the Society for Full Personality Expression, or FPE. She published a magazine called Transvestia, and there were a few members of FPE and subscribers to Transvestia in Europe, including the UK. The 3 UK members of FPE decided to form a UK branch of FPE in 1966, and that organization was called the Beaumont Society, so there definitely is an affiliation between the Beaumont Society and the forerunner of Tri-Ess, if not Tri-Ess proper.

Carol