What do you think about J. Edgar Hoover being a crossdresser?
It's a typical joke-reference about crossdressers.
For me, it's hard to believe that a FBI Director got caught crossdressing.
What do you think about J. Edgar Hoover being a crossdresser?
It's a typical joke-reference about crossdressers.
For me, it's hard to believe that a FBI Director got caught crossdressing.
He was an evil little man one I do not wish to have for a role model.
It takes a real man to wear a dress.
Sure, I don't want him as a role model either!
But the point is: if a FBI Director such as him probably got caught, do we (closeted crossdressers) really think that we will be able to keep the secret for ever?
Most of us probably should not keep the secret forever. Suppressing secrets does horrible things to a person.Originally Posted by PetiteDuality
But in reference to your comment about the inevitability of getting caught... you have to remember that Hoover was a powerful, feared and disliked, public servant. Most of us are not important enough for any one outside of our immediate group of friends and family to CARE if we CD or not.
When Joe Smith of Buzzards Bladder North Dakota CDs, no one cares (and so no one investigates) - when Obama CDs - people are interested (and so people try to find out).
"I don't mind living in a man's world, as long as I can be a woman in it." — Marilyn Monroe
Does Joe Smith of Buzzards Bladder North crossdresses? I would have not imagined.
I always thought that Obama crossdresses. That's the only explanation for such abs in a president
Your observation was an interesting one and like they say where there's smoke, there's usually fire. Yes, I would say that Hoover was a crossdresser. Even though it's obvious that over time people have tried to protect the man by diluting or obfuscating the accounts of the "frumpy black dress" or the "red dress" incidents it's hard to dismiss the fact that most of the accounts come from people of high standing and from a few media reporters of the time who's accounts were usually beyond reproach. But as the coverup began and continues it goes to show just how much power the man wielded!
But J. Edgar Hoover's problems were far deeper and darker than his "alleged" cross dressing or homosexuality. He compiled "files" on virtually everyone else who could hurt him, anyone in power or status. That way he could maintain both his hold on his power and keep his sexual proclivities secret by holding all those "skeletons in the closet" he had against everyone else!
It's interesting to note that Hoover also had a fascination with under-cover operations and his under-cover operatives. He often sent men out dressed as women on assignments for the FBI! His attention to detail in ladies fashions and accessories was well known and displayed a nearly "fetish" level of interest. He'd hire costume artists and dressmakers and makeup artists to work with his chosen men who would go on these assignments as well. Nearly every man who worked under Hoover hated this aspect of their jobs but to get along they went along. If they risked Hoover's wrath they knew their careers would soon be over and they would be on the street---without references. Because if you got on Hoover's bad side his smear tactics were brutal and it is whispered in several books that he also had control of what we now know as "Black-Ops" operatives to carry out his wishes.
The real problems came when Hoover took a liking to someone for whatever reason. I read a report on one man in his organization, a man in the FBI from Minnesota named Burt Horgeson. Described as a tall good looking man of Nordic heritage in his early to mid 20's.
Hoover began sending Horgeson out on assignments dressed as a woman. Horgeson put up with it for a while but then began to complain as Hoover fussed with his appearance worrying about his look as he picked out matching pumps and seamed nylons and hats and accessories for Horgeson's dresses. Hoover noted the complaint then told the man that if he didn't comply and do his job then he would be out of the FBI. Hoover also mentioned the man's family living back in Minnesota (a veiled threat to be sure)!
But it didn't end there! Hoover's fascination with Mr. Horgeson continued into the most bizarre and actual account of "forced feminization" ever put on record! He made Mr. Horgeson continue on working in full drag for weeks then months at a time. He then had him get an apartment and assume a ladies name. This was enforced by the other men on the FBI who were instructed and ordered to do so by Hoover. There was a short note about the laws back in the 1930's saying that it was then illegal for a man to wear women's clothing (deception for illegal activities being cited most). And it was illegal for a woman to wear men's clothing. To get his way and keep Horgeson in line Hoover had all of Mr. Horgeson's paperwork changed to indicate he was a female! Thus he was forced by law and the still present "G-men" working directly for Hoover to continue not only dressing but living full time as a woman!
The story ends with Horgeson never getting his male status back. He was listed by Hoover as an agent with "sensitive information" in the interest of "National security." Horgeson ended up dying in the early 1970's in a government sponsored old-folks-home still under Hoover's edict!
This single aspect of J. Edgar Hoover above all the others that was known about the man has been called "...the worst abuse of power ever held by any one single man."
I think part of Hoover's mystic and or power or most of it, came from the fact that the man had secrets (crossdressing/homosexuality) to hide. HIs records not only gave him his power and kept him on the job for over 50 years as head of the FBI, they also kept those away that would bring up any inference that he was a crossdresser or homosexual.
The day Hoover died his personal secretary burned stacks of secret files Hoover had and burned them in his personal fireplace in his living room at his home. Secrets that went way beyond simple investigation of noting corruption or bribe taking by officials---she was buring all of Hoovers records on the sexual activities and secrets of others in power or public office! I am sure Clyde Tolson knew all about those files too.
They say Hoover grew up alone and dressed like a "dandy," the swishing fairy of the times. He was never seen with women and was only seen with his close "associate" Clyde Tolson. They are even buried side by side! It goes back to the "where there's smoke there's fire" rule. But during Hoover's life, nobody dared to even breath a word or raise an eyebrow in his presense. In the end it's that total power that is really scary!
Anyone can get caught. We all get sloppy sometimes, or mistakenly thing we have more private time than we really do, and then out of nowhere, in walks someone unexpectedly. All it takes is one set of eyes to let out the secret.
Who knows if it was true or not, but anyone of any type can be a crossdresser. Even the FBI director.
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Hoover had so much dirt on so many people, I guess he was untouchable.
My understanding is that it is widely regarded as a rumor started by his enemies to discredit him and there never was any hard evidence that he crossdressed. So, at least we don't have him brining our reputation down
Always felt it gave us a bad rep. As usual you hear about all the bad things about him,and then oh by the way he was a crossdresser! I wonder how many of us have already, or will do great things out there.
The other thing with Edgar J Hoover is that he is sometimes used as a negative stereotype for CDs: ans obscure and disturbed person, sometimes paranoid who enjoys doing harm to other people but keeping appearances as a exemplary citizen.
Like Norman Bates... These stereotypes make people think that CDs are disturbed, sick people. I hate these portraits.
Do we have different, more positive crossdressing examples?
There's very little evidence that J. Edgar Hoover was a CD. There's more circumstantial evidence that he was gay and involved with a fellow FBI agent Clyde Tolson. But we will probably never know.
How the CD thing got started can be read about here:
Did J. Edgar Hoover Really Wear Dresses?
Everybody's normal until you get to know them. - Tracy Schapes
An opinion should be the result of thought, not a substitute for it.
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Blog: Tracy's Happy Place
I don't know about Hoover being a crossdresser, but I understand that he actually was gay. Apparently he persecuted gays - it's assumed to help throw suspicion from himself. Proof - I don't have any, and I don't care enough to get all wound up about it. Plenty to be concerned about in this day and age...
Either way, he's history.
Whatever the case may be, gay or not, crossdresser or not, has anyone seen the cover of the book of illustrator Robert Risko? This is his caracature of J. Edgar Hoover:http://www.amazon.com/Risko-Book-Robert/dp/1580930727#
This is what i found on the subject..
journalist Anthony Summers quoted a witness, "society divorcee" Susan Rosenstiel, (who later served time at Riker's Island for perjuring herself in a 1971 case) who claimed to have seen Hoover engaging in cross-dressing in the 1950s; she claimed that on two occasions she witnessed Hoover wearing a fluffy black dress with flounces and lace, stockings, high heels and a black curly wig, at homosexual orgies.
Hoover hunted down and threatened anyone who made insinuations about his sexuality.[34] He also spread destructive, unsubstantiated rumors that Adlai Stevenson was gay to damage the liberal governor's 1952 Presidential Campaign.[34] His extensive secret files contained surveillance material on Eleanor Roosevelt's alleged lesbian lovers, speculated to be acquired for the purpose of blackmail.
Sorry about all that but if you want to read more on it here is where I got it from..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._Edgar_Hoover
it starts about half way down the page in the Personal Life Section.. Thought that I would share this.
It's been reported that he did dresss at gay orgies. Unsubstantiated rumors. It for the most part is an urban legend. He never went out in public enfemme. He was gay. He left everything to his long time "friend" when he passed away. But he was not a crossdresser per se.
the thing that shocked ME was when RuPaul was caught crossdressed.
It takes a true Erin to be a pain in the assatar.
Aaaaargh!! I can't find it! I use to have a picture that I used in the IXE newsletter that showed Hover in a dress walking with some other guy.
I found it many many years ago. (pre 1999 as I have pdf verions of all after that and its not in any of them) It was black & white. (looked like a photo you would find in a newspaper).
I'll see if I can find & post it.
You want to wear a WHAT??
You are right! I've seen that exact photo! I hope you find it.
who cares the mans dead. What ever he was he does not efect my life so ,cd,gay,tv, no one I have ever talked to had said , your a cd well you must be just like Hover. Not one person. So why let it get to you.
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I read relatively recently that the crossdressing accusation was based on nothing but propagated anyway as an urban legend. Apparently no reputable professional historian can find a shred of evidence to give basis to the rumour. The speculation about his sexuality certainly has a basis in real circumstantial evidence.
It's my understanding that they found hiis "stash" after he passed away, and cleaning his personal efects from his residence
...and let's talk instead about former NYC Mayor Rudy Giuliani and 9/11 hero who showed exemplary leadership during that crisis. He's also alleged to be a crossdresser, and there's even that famous picture of him in drag to substantiate those rumours.
If he truly is one of us, it doesn't get much better than that in terms of a role model or an ambassador for our community.
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