Acceptance and womens' world

[skirtsuit]

Hello All,

In my ever expanding CDing, I have come to realize that there is a whole big world out there catering exclusively women. From day spas to makeup counters to all the clothing, there is a seperate world that few men know or care to know anything about.

So the question is this: Could some of the resistance or unacceptance that some encounter in women be simply from feeling that CDing intrudes too much on their seperate private world?

Men traditionally have thier own seperate worlds too, where they can get away from the women and act like guys and there has been and still is resentment when women intrude.

So then maybe the 'inequallity' that some feel in FTM vs MTF crossdressing is because womens clothing is part of their private world while mens clothing isn't really part of ours?

Just alittle something to chew on....

SS / Ann

[mklinden2010]

>>Could some of the resistance or unacceptance that some encounter in women be simply from feeling that CDing intrudes too much on their seperate private world?

Do you mean resistance from wives and/or SOs?

People where CDing would actually matter in their day-to-day lives and not just offend some set of norms that have been memorized?

Sure, that could happen sometimes.

On the other hand, they could just feel that while they're doing the best they can to keep and hold onto their world, you should, as an apparent male, do the same to hold onto yours.

I've heard some complaints, you see, that "men should focus on being men." It's a bit of inverse jealousy, you see: "It's a man's world already. Don't throw that away! I'd kill for more money and less work! Scram! You have too much already!"

This goes along with some women expecting you to shoulder the other half of the work in life. When they see you "playing at being a woman," they think/feel/react that you're wasting time that could be spent pulling your half of the wagon.

It's probably important then, if you're going to do what you do, to be able to demonstrate how your CDing is a plus in your life and hers/theirs and not a minus.

"Stupid until proven intelligent."

[DonnaT]

I doubt that that is the reason.

Most who disapprove seem to do so on moral grounds.

And it seems that there aren't that many who disapprove who aren't directly affected by the CDer.

[Veronica Nowakowski]

To quote:

"Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering."

People fear what is new, what they don't know. They have no idea what a crossdresser is like and they fear to find out. There's something different about us, and they don't know what it is. I'd say that's the basis of it all.

[StacyCD]

Clothes don't have a gender. If they did, women would be the greatest crossdressers ever! Unfortunately, society says what is 'normal.' I remember when it was very unusual to see a man with an earring (let alone two) and now it's a fairly common sight. Back in the 60s there probably weren't too many women with tatoos and now you see them all the time! What's normal changes all the time. However, I don't know if I will ever see Wall Street bankers (the male ones) walking to work in 5 inch pumps.

[VeronicaMoonlit]

To quote:

"Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering."

And fear is the path to the dark side.

People fear what is new, what they don't know. .......'d say that's the basis of it all.

You have much wisdom, my young padawan.

Veronica
Rondelle (Ron) Rogers Jr.

[kellycan27]

Fear? Most of the gg's that I know aren't afraid, they just don't see it as a desirable trait that they would want in a husband or SO. As for cross dressing in general, most of them don't concern themselves with what others do. It's like what EVER..... and trust me, we are no threat to gg's in any way,shape or form.
Intruding?......Anyone who would believe that is not just experiencing the "pink fog", they're living in it.

[Sammy777]

Intruder Alert!
Intruder Alert!

There is a man inside the secret sacred walls of all things women.



Some how I don't see this quite happening.

[PauletteCDTx]

There is an oxymoron...

Based on what I have heard from males who admire a CD/TS/TG all that focus on catering to women is getting lost somewhere. So many men seem fed up with the garbage they have to put up from a GG if they are married to one or just dating. The first response of a married GG to a husband, "what could that fag possibly have that I don't..." Most CDs I know genuinely care about there appearance, something there wives or g/f seem to loose sight of once the have "hooked" a guy.

Women say they want their men to be masculine yet they do their best to emasculate them.

Even though they may consider our encroachment into their world as an invasion of there space--by shopping for women's cloths, makeup, or gettin a pedicure--I think they need to get over it cause we are here to stay.

Okay, I am off my soapbox.

[Melissa Rose]

I think most groups have some essence of exclusivity. There is a sense of belonging and understanding that outsiders do not have. Anything that threatens, alters or disrupts the character, unity and exclusivity may result in rejection or a hostile reaction from the group. Just go to any school and see how many cliques exist with some individuals being members of more than one. However, I do not think GGs fear CDs are invading their exclusive girls club. IMHO, any negative reaction is more a mixture of fear, lack of understanding, bias, discomfort and morality. Also, I believe straight men are much more likely to be unaccepting and resistant to CDs.

[Veronica Nowakowski]

I'd disagree. A man who is truly straight is comfortable in his masculinity and doesn't need to defer their own uneasiness with their sexuality onto others. As I suspected and a homosexual acquaintance in his 80's confirmed for me, most homophobic people are secretly homosexual themselves.

[dawnmarrie1961]

Skirtsuit,
Hey! There's nothing wrong with the whole world catering to a woman's needs. I say "It's about darn time!!" The guys got to have all the fun. In the dark ages they got to ride around on horses and hack of people's head just for the fun of it. And where were their woman folk? At home cleaning and pressing the men's armor. "Not fair!" I say. They had War War I, War War II, the Korean War, the Vietnam War, now Iraq.(Ok this time they took a few of us with them one that one. Big deal they still get to have all the fun.) I'm sure their probably working on another military action just to get away from home and having to take the trash out!

Why not send us instead? We could have a sewing bee, a bake off or something to decide the winner.

It just hardly seems fair.
I'll quit my whining now.


Be safe. Be smart.

Dawn Marrie

[Veronica Nowakowski]

If the men wore armor and had horses to ride around and cut heads off... .I guarantee you the wife didn't work but rather had servants. The average peasant's life was rather base, regardless of sex.

[dawnmarrie1961]

Yeah your probably right. And they probably had some handsome page or moat cleaner ( kinda like the pool guy) to help out while the hubby was away doing his crusader stuff. "Hello, dear , lets have our own inquisition here!"


Be safe. Be smart.

Dawn Marrie

[kellycan27]

There is an oxymoron...

Based on what I have heard from males who admire a CD/TS/TG all that focus on catering to women is getting lost somewhere. So many men seem fed up with the garbage they have to put up from a GG if they are married to one or just dating. The first response of a married GG to a husband, "what could that fag possibly have that I don't..." Most CDs I know genuinely care about there appearance, something there wives or g/f seem to loose sight of once the have "hooked" a guy.

Women say they want their men to be masculine yet they do their best to emasculate them.

Even though they may consider our encroachment into their world as an invasion of there space--by shopping for women's cloths, makeup, or gettin a pedicure--I think they need to get over it cause we are here to stay.

Okay, I am off my soapbox.

Are you saying that because a guy is fed up with the antics of gg's that they are going to gravitate towards cross dressers?
And men who would otherwise pair up with a gg..because a cd'er takes more pride (according to you) in their appearance are goin to be more attracted to them than a female? Never mind ths breast forms and the penis that are hiding under the nice outfit huh? Where in the world did you ever get the idea that gg's feel that we are encroaching on their space? emasculate? You don't sound like you are very fond of gg's.

[skirtsuit]

Hey, I didn't say there was anything wrong with women having their own world, as long I can keep invading it!

It was just an idle thought, really. A few of the thrifts shops I pilage regularly have the womens stuff all by itself on the 2nd floor. I have felt a bit like an invader in those places before although it hasn't stopped me from going back for more loot.

All the best,
Ann / SS

[Sammy777]

is a moron...

I have males

admire a CD/TS/TG all that

women getting lost somewhere.

So many men
fed up with just dating.

I don't genuinely care about appearance,
wives or g/f seem to loose sight once "hooked".

Want to be masculine
best to emasculate by shopping for women's cloths, makeup, or gettin a pedicure--
I need to get over it.

WOW - That is one hell of a first post.

Sorry to hear you feel that way.

[Rachel Morley]

Are you saying that because a guy is fed up with the antics of gg's that they are going to gravitate towards cross dressers?
And men who would otherwise pair up with a gg..because a cd'er takes more pride (according to you) in their appearance are goin to be more attracted to them than a female? Never mind ths breast forms and the penis that are hiding under the nice outfit huh?

Ha ha ... very funny ... that's similar to what I was thinking

To get back to the OP's hypothesis .... it's an interesting question, but I really don't think GGs fear us (the ones that do that is) because we are encroaching on their territory. Like others have suggested I think it's got to do with morals, religious beliefs and the basics of wanting a masculine man not what could be considered a feminine one ... and that's only the GGs that have a problem with us. IMHO in mainstream society GGs on the whole seem pretty tolerant of us CDers and some of them are even ok with the CDing even if it's their partner they're talking about!

[ReineD]

I have felt a bit like an invader in those places before although it hasn't stopped me from going back for more loot.

There's your answer. There is no exclusive women's world except the one you perceive in your mind. In fact, it is men who have traditionally wanted to keep women out of their worlds, not the other way around.

I agree with DonnaT and Kellycan. When I go shopping or to a salon or spa, I do not feel threatened in the least if I see a CD or a cis-male there. There's plenty of room for everyone. And if I'm getting my nails done and I don't feel like talking to you or anyone else, I won't. But if I'm impressed with your look, I will bombard you with questions so that I can learn how to achieve the same effect. I've done this several times with TGs I've met in GLBT clubs.

If you notice disapproving looks when you go out, it has more to do with a moral objection or a gut reaction to seeing a guy in a dress than a feeling you are encroaching on some "private space". Traditionally, women have looked to men for strength and men have wanted to live up to this image. Running into a feminine looking male unexpectedly can be disturbing to both GGs and cis-men who've had very little exposure to TGs other than a vague knowledge of stereotypes. Many people would likely gape and look disapprovingly if they saw someone walking around in any non-traditional getup.






Paulette, you are sorely out of touch with reality. I would have ignored a post such as this one and put it down to blatant ignorance but since you are new, I would like to present a different outlook for you to consider.

Based on what I have heard from males who admire a CD/TS/TG all that focus on catering to women is getting lost somewhere. So many men seem fed up with the garbage they have to put up from a GG if they are married to one or just dating.

Be careful not to project your way of looking at things onto everyone else. If the couple is in an unhappy relationship, if the guy wants to be with a TG and not his wife, he shouldn't have married her. I wouldn't blame the wife for being upset.

The first response of a married GG to a husband, "what could that fag possibly have that I don't..."

If a wife sees her husband lusting after anyone .. TG, cis-male, or other GG, she will be upset and if she loves him, she will wonder at first if he is looking around because there is something lacking in her. If he does this repeatedly, hopefully she will dump him and get into a relationship with someone who wants to be with her. If she calls a CD a 'fag' it is because she is homo/transphobic just like millions of males out there are too.

Most CDs I know genuinely care about there appearance, something there wives or g/f seem to loose sight of once the have "hooked" a guy.

That is a huge broad statement to make, and very chauvinistic. There are many reasons why women AND men stop focusing on their appearance after they are settled into a relationship: lack of time due to careers, kids, other obligations. As to CDs caring about their appearance, take a look in our Picture Gallery. You'll see CDs of all shapes and sizes there. True, many CDs are focused on their nails, hair, makeup, clothes, etc, but most GGs do get beyond that once they grow out of adolescence, for the reasons I've mentioned above. And I would guess most of these CDs don't even come close to spending as much time caring about their male appearance.

Women say they want their men to be masculine yet they do their best to emasculate them.

Why should a woman who wants to be paid as much as a man for doing the same job emasculate the man? Who is keeping who out of whose world?

Even though they may consider our encroachment into their world as an invasion of there space--by shopping for women's cloths, makeup, or gettin a pedicure--I think they need to get over it cause we are here to stay.

The encroachment and invasion is solely in your mind. Learn to accept yourself and I promise you will stop feeling so paranoid about things.

[Persephone]

I feel a bit uncomfortable when a man invades the space of my nail salon or my day spa, even if he is just there to adjust the air conditioning or something. To me, it feels a bit like finding a man in the ladies room.

The women who work there are used to male repairmen, delivery guys and the like and seem less disturbed by their presence.

I for sure would feel uncomfortable if a man, or even an obviously readable CDer, invaded the women-only excercise center that my spouse and I belong to.

[Sammy777]

I for sure would feel uncomfortable if a man, or even an obviously readable CDer, invaded the women-only excercise center that my spouse and I belong to.

Sounds like someone woke up on the wrong side of the gender bed this morning.

You must pass better then Dan Marino

[kellycan27]

I feel a bit uncomfortable when a man invades the space of my nail salon or my day spa, even if he is just there to adjust the air conditioning or something. To me, it feels a bit like finding a man in the ladies room.

The women who work there are used to male repairmen, delivery guys and the like and seem less disturbed by their presence.

I for sure would feel uncomfortable if a man, or even an obviously readable CDer, invaded the women-only excercise center that my spouse and I belong to.

I think we're discussing whether REAL gg's feel encroached upon.

[Sammy777]

I think we're discussing whether REAL gg's feel encroached upon.

I don't know, maybe Persephone is still suffering from her not to long ago head trauma and might still be a bit confused as to whether or not she is her or her GG twin sister.

I feel a bit uncomfortable when a man invades the space of my nail salon or my day spa, even if he is just there to adjust the air conditioning or something.

To me, it feels a bit like finding a man in the ladies room.

[sissystephanie]

I'd disagree. A man who is truly straight is comfortable in his masculinity and doesn't need to defer their own uneasiness with their sexuality onto others. As I suspected and a homosexual acquaintance in his 80's confirmed for me, most homophobic people are secretly homosexual themselves.

Veronica, I have to both agree and disagree with you. I am definitely truly straight (only had sex with one person in my entire life, my late wife) and i am totally comfortable in my masculinity. But I am also totally comfortable in my femininety, as Stephanie! Not to be a woman, just to dress like one! I would also argue the point that some else raised about day spas, makeup counters, and female clothing departments being "women's world." I don't know where the individual who wrote that shops, but I have never experienced that in my life! (Been CD'ing for over 60 years)

One other thing, Veronica, your elderly homosexual acquaintance told you the one thing that many homosexuals wish was true! According to many experts in the field, most homophobic people are NOT homosexual themselves. As I said, homosexuals wish they were, because it makes them feel better about themselves. According to things I have read in the past, and experienced with a cousin, many homosexuals have a very low opinion of themselves!As, apparently, do some crossdressers! I don't feel that way about myself. I know what I am, and who I am. I am a MAN who like to wear feminine clothing. Nothing more, or less!

[kellycan27]

One other thing, Veronica, your elderly homosexual acquaintance told you the one thing that many homosexuals wish was true! According to many experts in the field, most homophobic people are NOT homosexual themselves. As I said, homosexuals wish they were, because it makes them feel better about themselves. According to things I have read in the past, and experienced with a cousin, many homosexuals have a very low opinion of themselves!As, apparently, do some crossdressers! I don't feel that way about myself. I know what I am, and who I am. I am a MAN who like to wear feminine clothing. Nothing more, or less!

Spoken like a true homophobe. Sounds like just as Veronica has made a rash statement, so have you.You don't need to defend your sexuality here. I doubt that anyone really cares whether or not your gay,str8,bi or what have you.

I know I am man..... and so is lola ...L-O-L-A ... lola la la la la lolaaaa