The Question Asked Was..........

[Vicky_Scot]

Any one in the transgendered community think a talk show on network tv to educate the general population and provide support to others be a good idea?

This was the rather heated response from a TS and I think she may sum up the real feelings of the TS community IMO.

First, I am not a part of the transgender community. I am a member of the TS-Specific and HBS/IS community, and do not want any transgender nor other non-TS speaking for me. We are capable of speaking for ourselves. True-TSs - mainstream persons with a birth defect - are denied the opportunity and right to speak for ourselves, and TGs and LGBTs arrogantly presume the right to speak for us. Someone who isn't transitioning completely with surgery and seeking to assimilate into and conform to mainstream culture has NO clue about nor the right to speak for those who do. We are not one family, our goals and needs are nowhere close, and we TSs would appreciate it if the TGs and LGBTs stayed out of our business, quit patronizing us, quit condescending to us, and quit trying to "help" (interfere with) us.

A talk show about TSs would be a good idea, if it was hosted by an actual TS, if the participants were actually TSs (not transgenders), and if there is no agenda other than sharing the truth - not what benfits transgenders, the LGBT, the general public, and certainly not the bigots (the biggest anti-TS bigots are in the TG and LGBT community who express their bigotry by redefining who we are into something more convenient for them and constantly hijacking our terminology).

So a TS show would be a good idea if:

1. It is hosted by actual TSs.

2. Actual fully-transitioning TSs who want to assimilate and conform are guests.

3. LGBT, TG, and sexual causes are not advertised during the show. Stick to TS ads or ads for mundane things like cleaning supplies, vehicles, and food.

4. Only TS issues are discussed.

5. Unrelated stuff like gayness and transgenderism isn't mentioned on every show.

6. Controversial issues that TGs/LGBTs care about more than TSs do are not discussed.

7. That it is made clear that TSs are not a part of either the TG nor LGBT community, but the mainstream community (whether the mainstream bigots like it or not).

8. That it is made clear that TSs can do anything or have any opinion that non-TSs can have. For instance, make it clear that TSs can be Christians, Conservatives, bigots, anti-LGBT, etc., just like other mainstream persons.

9. That it is made clear that TSism is a birth defect, not a choice, orientation, nor sexuality. Make it clear that TSs don't want partners who prefer TSs, but people who don't notice they are TSs but treat them as fully born members of the sex they transitioned into.

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FYI, I side with 90% of the world - the combined Mainstream and TS community.

The truth hurts. The thumb downs come from TGs (or TSs who are sold out to the TG community against the TS & Mainstream community), and not TSs. Only TSs complain of the apartheid and forced lumping with TGs, just like only slaves complained about slavery. Those benefitting TGs/LGBTS or racist slave-owners are those who complain loudest when TSs have their own community apart from them or when slaves are granted their freedom, and neither can see why their victims are complaining.

[Tamara Croft]

Really? you think she speaks on behalf of all TS's? I don't think so. I think she's one stuck up bitch who needs to get a clue. She seems to be part of an elitist TS group, I've seen it all before, but that doesn't mean she speaks for them all. And please, go tell her I said that.. quote me... seriously... I hope she doesn't join our forum....

[Vicky_Scot]

Thanks for your Eloquent heart felt response Tamara.

As always it is appreciated.

IMO yes I think she may well say what the majority of the TS community think.



Xx Vicky xX

[deja true]

for Tamara's post...

This kind of elitism is what will hold us all back, Trans and gay and whatever...

The analogy with slavery is way off base, as well. It wasn't only slaves that brought down that hideous institution. It was freed slaves, rebel slave freedom fighters, the religious communities black and white, upper class whites with the power to speak to power, all working together to overturn a system of inhumane horror.

This one cannot possibly speak for all TS folks, as evidenced by the large number of trans people who participate here.

Sounds to me like she wants to be her own little ayatollah!

Sheesh!

[Joni Marie Cruz]

To paraphrase Orwell, we should all be treated equally but some should be treated more equally than others. This is one of the reasons that TGs a group, as a community, will and do have such a difficult time making progress socially and politically, excusivity and fragmentation. Okay, two reasons.

Everybody likes to feel superior for whatever reason they can find, because they're a snappy dresser, or they're out and others aren't, because they can finish the New York Times crossword puzzle in ten minutes, because they've had SRS. Whatever. The fact of the matter is, as far as the general population goes, we are all lumped together in the same odd, but fashionably tricked out, boat. To them TS, crossdresser, preop,non-op, tranny, tgirl, are meaningless distinctions.

It's okay, sweety, go revel in your extra-specialness.

-Joni Mari

[GypsyKaren]

Why is it elitism? I don't want anyone else speaking for me, would you like me speaking for you? The word "transgender" is an invented load of crap because whether you like it or not, a post-op transsexual is a whole lot different than a weekend crossdresser...and before you start throwing shit at me, I said different, not better.

And for the record, I don't even want other post-ops speaking for me, I'm more than capable of speaking for myself.

Karen

[Sara Jessica]

And now back to our program...

Where the ratings are in the toilet.

Something like this couldn't get above public access. Why? Because the general public wouldn't give a hoot about such a mundane concept.

Put this in the context of an Oprah. Why is she so successful? It's because the topics she presents are appealing to her target audience. Health, social issues, a little beauty here and there and of course the obligatory cry-inducing episode. That audience also happens to be vastly larger than a target audience of stealth TS individuals or those who desire to go in that direction.

Mainstream folks just wouldn't care about the concept you describe. This is why even the best of treatment we receive in the media contains at least some of the tantalizing subjects you suggest be avoided.

[~Kelly~]

I don't see this viewpoint as overly outrageous. There ARE major differences. And representation from others may not always reflect the thoughts and attitudes you have. Take the US political scene for example. Conservatives and Liberals don't share much in common in terms of ideals. Yet they both are Americans. This doesn't stop a Conservative from voicing an opinion when a Liberal in power claims representation of ALL the people. Nor does it stop a Liberal from speaking out against Conservatives who claim total representation. Whether anyone likes it or not, we are dealing with two separate and distinct groups here. One not better than another.....just different. That DOESN'T in any way mean we can't get along. We can share differing viewpoints and remain a family.......just don't speak for the ENTIRE family when everyone is not represented.

[Rachel Morley]

My is that I totally understand her frustrations of what she considers "being lumped in with the rest of the TG crowd".

However, like it or not, that's how it's going to be perceived by the uninformed public also probably the media and we just have to deal with it. IMHO it's no different than me as a CDer being considered by the uniformed that I am some sort of transvestic panty fetish person ... which of course I'm not. It just goes with the territory. People like to "pigeon-hole" others .... especially others they don't understand.

[Lorileah]

That would be one very short program targeting a very small audience with little disposable income. I don't even think it would be a very long documentary or infomercial.

Maybe it isn't elitism as Karen pointed out but it sure is a new discrimination. You eliminate even discussions about sexuality and LOGO won't show it. Ts's have enough trouble getting respect and then you dis the LGBT community?

By law all cable companies have to allow access to the airwaves for the community. So there is your forum. Play it like you want to play it, see if anyone watches or for how long before they switch to re-runs of the Golden Girls or Say Yes to the Dress.

Concrete fighter planes sounded good in theory but they were hard to get off the ground

[Ze]

First, I am not a part of the transgender community. I am a member of the TS-Specific and HBS/IS community, and do not want any transgender nor other non-TS speaking for me. We are capable of speaking for ourselves. True-TSs - mainstream persons with a birth defect - are denied the opportunity and right to speak for ourselves, and TGs and LGBTs arrogantly presume the right to speak for us. Someone who isn't transitioning completely with surgery and seeking to assimilate into and conform to mainstream culture has NO clue about nor the right to speak for those who do. We are not one family, our goals and needs are nowhere close, and we TSs would appreciate it if the TGs and LGBTs stayed out of our business, quit patronizing us, quit condescending to us, and quit trying to "help" (interfere with) us.

This makes me sad. Truly. The foundational concern is valid, but it seems to be smothered in what appears to be anger, hate, and condescendence. How can we gain anything if we don't work together? Why yell at us and push us away instead of educating us to help you in the struggle? Albeit there are always morons in any group, but if the answer is because we'll simply never "get it," then you're still just as screwed as us. If "we" can't "get it," then the mainstream society definitely won't "get it." It'd be delusional and hypocritical to think otherwise simply based on the flow of argument, if nothing else.

I just keep getting this image now of a TS on a talk show, pushing away a TG with one hand and gesturing to a cisgendered crowd with the other.

[Gerard]

I don't agree that transsexual issues can be seen completely separate from gay an crossdresser issues.

I agree it's not the same, but each group shares one important thing with the other.

What I see that transsexual and gay people share is what you call a "birth defect". For reasons not yet fully understood, their brains were wired differently than what would be default for their bodies.

The thing that transsexuals have in common with crossdressers, is that they run into a lot of the same cultural taboos, even if the reasons for their deviant behaviour are different.

Just my

[Vicky_Scot]

The thing that transsexuals have in common with crossdressers, is that they run into a lot of the same cultural taboos, even if the reasons for their deviant behaviour are different.

Just my

Now there is a word that might just get a response. Calling TS's and CD's deviants. My initial reaction was who she calling deviant as it conjures up people that do things that you should never do........I think you know who I am talking about.

But Deviant seem a valid word to describe us if you take its description.

Deviant: Differing from a norm or from the accepted standards of a society.

So yes we are all deviants.

Xx Vicky xX

[PaulaJaneThomas]

Vicky, you might want to edit your original post and put the quoted stuff in a quote box like so:

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fgetyety hgjtjtjh hjhjgh jh

otherwise someone might mistakenly read them as your views.

[Christinedreamer]

MANY of us in the TG world do understand the differences and have a heart felt respect and for want of a better word, sympathy for our TS sisters.

True, some crossdressers are more interested in the fetish displays that may get the attention and therefore true TS getl umped in with the crowd and have a rough time separating themeselves in the eyes of the public.

Personally I feel it is much easier to establish a dialogue with the vanilla world if we, as a group that in various ways and degrees, varies from the accepted genetic "norm" establish communications with the generic world that teaches that gender and sex are different and are definitely NOT binary.

Fragmented representaions of gender conflicted or gifted individuals will only serve to isolate us all.

This is one reason I am firmly against the flamboyant displays in Pride parades etc. We are trying to get public acceptance of sexual orientation, lifestyle variations and personal issues with gender so that we as individuals and as groups can be allowed to live our lives without fear of retribution, physical danger, social ostracism etc.

The attitude expressed by the original quote is no different IMO, from the vanilla public's attitude. She must accept the fact that a great many of us affiliated with all the aspects LGBT represents are indeed truly in sympathy and exercise empathetic support and do honestly try to explain to folks unfamiliar with all the gender permutations what the differences are and how personally painful they can be.

IMHO, there is no rational justification for such an across-the-board diatribe and rant against the entire LGBT community.

[Vicky_Scot]

Vicky, you might want to edit your original post and put the quoted stuff in a quote box like so:



otherwise someone might mistakenly read them as your views.

Thanks Paula. Its done.

Xx Vicky xX

[Joan Merrie]

I have to agree, with Karen, and Kelly on this. We are all part of a huge family. one is no better than the other. I think we can all speak for our selves. It's like this, My brother doesn't support me at all, why would I want him to speak for me.

[MiraM]

Really? you think she speaks on behalf of all TS's? I don't think so. I think she's one stuck up bitch who needs to get a clue. She seems to be part of an elitist TS group, I've seen it all before, but that doesn't mean she speaks for them all. And please, go tell her I said that.. quote me... seriously... I hope she doesn't join our forum....

Well said. I'm still trying to figure out this choice thing she mentioned. I don't seem to remember getting the memo that said I had a choice if I wanted to be Gay and Transgendered. It's not like I woke up one morning and decided that I would be two things that would be sure to make me hated by the majority of the people on the planet. Not sure I would have taken that choice. But I was born this way....yes, I too have this 'birth defect' and believe I should have been born female. Truth is though, I am a gay male that happens to be TG as well, and chopping of the weewee ain't gonna change that. Now I'm not saying that TS's are gay males that can't deal with being gay. I know being TS is a serious issue and that for a true TS, the only option is GRS and living as they should have been in the first place, and I have nothing but respect for those that are strong enough to do it.

And, if she were so interested in fitting in and assimilating, why would she want a TV show anyway. Isn't that the opposite of assimilating? Seems like that is trying to set oneself apart from the mainstream. Another point for her...people in the GLBT community can also have the same beliefs and opinions as the mainstream, and we should have the same rights as well. And BTW...It's not a choice, anymore than being TS is a choice for you.


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I'm here, I'm queer, and it's [SIZE="4"]FABULOUS[/SIZE]!

[GypsyKaren]

Maybe it isn't elitism as Karen pointed out but it sure is a new discrimination. You eliminate even discussions about sexuality and LOGO won't show it. Ts's have enough trouble getting respect and then you dis the LGBT community?

Seeing as we were specifically deleted from ENDA by the Gay faction, I could give a flying rat's ass about them.

The thing that transsexuals have in common with crossdressers, is that they run into a lot of the same cultural taboos, even if the reasons for their deviant behaviour are different.

The software filters won't allow my original response, so I'll just say that this is an example of why I don't want others to speak for me.

Karen

[Wen4cd]

I think people should do and be what they desire to do and be.

[michelle_tx]

While I do agree, yes, a ts is different from a tg which is different from a cd which is different from...and on and on, the truth is it's a lot easier to make progress as a united front than splintered into a billion different fractions. We have a hard enough time as it is with people remembering there's a T when it comes to LGBT rights. Now you want to segregate even more? Sure, each group does indeed have it's own concerns and priorities. But the truth is, there's strength in numbers, and it's a lot easy to push an agenda (acceptance) the more people you have. No, I certainly don't want anyone to put words into my mouth. But there is one thing we do all have in common, TS or TG or CD or whatever, and that's trying to educate against prejudice in society. After we get a handle on that, then we can all go back into our respective corners and get into a pissing match about our individual needs.

[Sweet Jane]

my thoughts would have been if the show was to 'educate'it should show the entire spectrum...that way people will know how we all 'fit' together......a narrow focus will mean that when people see something that doesn't align with a 'file in their head' they will be as ignorant as they ever were, possibly to the point of saying the show was 'not accurate'...this would make us out to be liars as well as ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmm 'different'...anyway, i can't see it happening in the next year or two, well not where i live anyway!

[TxKimberly]

Well well well, kind of stirring things up aren't we?

My problem with the person quoted has more to do with their attitude than their message. I DO have a problem with their message, it's just that the attitude pisses me off MORE.

Several people responding to this post managed to politely make the point that a transitioning TS has a different set of worries, needs, and issues than those of us that aren't going to transition. They made this point politely, they made it decently and with respect for the feelings of others. The person quoted though, drips contempt for all of those not on her own path. Only an idiot wouldn't realize that someone transitioning has a unique set of concerns and issues, but this does not make them better, it does not set them above others, and they certainly have no basis for being stuck up and holier-than-thou.

Now as for her message. Sorry, I guess I was wrong about that - it DOES make me just as mad, and as far as I'm concerned she can blow THAT out her ass end too. There are a LOT of us out here that have all the same feelings, thoughts, wants, desires, and dreams that a transitioning TS has, but for what ever reason, we will never actually do it. That she some how assumes that my concerns have no relevance to the TS world, and that this theoretical talk show should ignore me out of hand simply because I'm not going to get an operation is just somehow deeply offensive.

It seems to me that her idea of the perfect talk show would be to have one where she is the host, she is also the one and only guest, and we get to hear only about her concerns. Please let me know when it airs - I need a good laugh . . .

[Joni Marie Cruz]

Shoot-howdy, Kimberly, don't sugarcoat it, girl, how do you really feel? ^5. You go, girl.

Hugs...Joni Mari

Well well well, kind of stirring things up aren't we?

My problem with the person quoted has more to do with their attitude than their message. I DO have a problem with their message, it's just that the attitude pisses me off MORE.

Several people responding to this post managed to politely make the point that a transitioning TS has a different set of worries, needs, and issues than those of us that aren't going to transition. They made this point politely, they made it decently and with respect for the feelings of others. The person quoted though, drips contempt for all of those not on her own path. Only an idiot wouldn't realize that someone transitioning has a unique set of concerns and issues, but this does not make them better, it does not set them above others, and they certainly have no basis for being stuck up and holier-than-thou.

Now as for her message. Sorry, I guess I was wrong about that - it DOES make me just as mad, and as far as I'm concerned she can blow THAT out her ass end too. There are a LOT of us out here that have all the same feelings, thoughts, wants, desires, and dreams that a transitioning TS has, but for what ever reason, we will never actually do it. That she some how assumes that my concerns have no relevance to the TS world, and that this theoretical talk show should ignore me out of hand simply because I'm not going to get an operation is just somehow deeply offensive.

It seems to me that her idea of the perfect talk show would be to have one where she is the host, she is also the one and only guest, and we get to hear only about her concerns. Please let me know when it airs - I need a good laugh . . .

[charlie]

Judging from the comments on this forum, a pro TG group, I guess our issues are not ready for television yet. Nobody would agree with the program or the announcer!