Last edited by Lisa Golightly; 08-12-2009 at 07:24 AM.
Der Transsexuellaußenseiter
The lovers have flown...
[SIZE="3"]VENI VIDI VICI[/SIZE]
I agree!
Very true and many of the same political variants are in the community as well.
I need to see it mysef.
I must agree. Some people forget how they started.
This is a major problem in the community with the elite.
IMO when I am out and about as well as many of us who go out in the public, for the most part people may think we are TS or in some cases people do not even know. I think her problem is she feel that TG/CD's are always trying to "pass" when we get a chance to dress and we can just not be in the gender that we present while dressed. I feel that view is very wrong as well as dangerous. Like I said many times when I am out I am adressed 99.9% of the time as a woman, I act like a woman and when out and about I have the same saftey concerns as a woman.
I think where she misses the mark is that many of us understand that publicly we are viewed as the gender we present at that time. Many of us who on line identify ourselves as TG/CD have actual state ID's with a female photo. I wish I did However she fails to realize that many travel cross country as the opposite gender and a few have began living 24/7 and do not have the desire to have SRS. My question is would she allow a 24/7 non SRS to be on her show? they have the same issues as a SRS-TS would have. I know that their are many Stealth TS's out and about and many of hem are the ones who disappeared from the on line world years ago and they did it for privacy issues and one that I am thinking about is from the site "Classy Kelli" she has gone stealth but hat is from the on line world.
Thats my
Last edited by Tamara Croft; 08-12-2009 at 02:43 PM. Reason: fixed quote :)
I may be way off base here, totally wrong, and manage to upset TS, CD er, M2F & F2m all at one go ............. would love to say that would be new for me but unfortunately I doubt it
Many TS (please note the use of the word MANY) have begun the road to transition believing themselves or perhaps wanting to believe themselves as "just" a CDER, only to later down the road admit to being TS (M2F or F2M), and were quite willing to be included under the GLBT flag at the time & reap any benefits however small from being under the umbrella of being TG ......... seems a shame to reach the other end, and knock the same group as has helped to support them on their journey & to bite the hand of those who have fed them with support
As a GG (yes I know this does not qualify me in any way shape or form to understand what TS have to go through to get where they are going), it saddens me to see such fighting in the community, who although they may have widely different needs and end goals should be closer to understanding each other, there are many TS who from what I have read here and on other sites who will remain seen to be CDERS, for personal reasons, be they family concerns, financial constraints etc and who will never ever be able to achieve what they know themselves to be deep inside TS............ surely there voice has the right to be heard as well ........... they are after all TS
I allow myself to set healthy boundaries ..... to say no to what does not align with my values, to say yes to what does.
Boundaries assist me to remain healthy, honest and living a life that is true to me
Thank you, Sheila, you said it perfectly.
Hugs...Joni Mari
Last edited by Holly; 08-12-2009 at 09:45 AM. Reason: No need to quote entire previous post.
"Because equality is not a concept. It's not something we should be striving for. It's a necessity. Equality is like gravity. We need it to stand on this earth as men and women. And the misogyny that is in every culture is not a true part of the human condition. It is life out of balance, and that imbalance is sucking something out of the soul of every man and woman who's confronted with it."
--Joss Whedon, to a reporter who asked, "So why do you create these strong women characters?"
Wow. So much pain and anger. And this particular TS would not want to share any forum that caters to anyone except people who are exactly like she is. Kinda sounds like the KKK when you boil it down to gravy. So many here have made excellent points on all sides of the argument. The Franklin quote is very appropriate in retrospect, as is the Martin Luther King reference. As near as I can tell, we would not have a situation where any one group was speaking for another. It is more of a situation where one group was providing a conduit for other groups to speak for themselves, and that's not a bad thing.
I have a niece who several years ago went Goth for a stretch of time. When we asked why she was dressed the way she was, her answer was, "I'm Goth; you wouldn't understand." And this is nothing more than a cop-out answer, stated so that she didn't have to explain herself to others who really didn't understand the concept.
If this particular TS thinks for one moment that I (and others like me) don't understand the concept or the reality, I beg to differ. First off, how many TS persons really understand the reality of what they are doing until that reality hits them full on? There are many of us who are pigeon-holed by the TS community as mere crossdressers, while the reality is that many of us have dealt with our own TS issues our entire lives. A constant wrestling match every day of our existence, yet she would state that we have no basis for understanding any of her issues. That is narrow, and shows a complete detachment from reality.
Again, she says something that could have come straight from my own thoughts. I have chosen a path that does not allow for a surgical solution. That's all. And as for me, I'd not be throwing away the help and support of other groups, simply because they don't walk in the same footsteps that I did. I honor those who have fully transitioned, thinking "There but for the grace of God, go I." I don't look on them with derision, but with understanding of why they took the path they did. It hurts to think that TS persons, as a whole, do not feel the same way about me.Originally Posted by TxKimberly
Any money found in the laundry is MINE!
"This is no social crisis....this is me having fun!"
www.flickr.com/photos/tgmarla/
In this space, after reading all the posts to this point, I responded inappropriately to what I felt at the time was a personal attack, one trivializing my deep struggle with my lifestyle. Instead of responding directly to that perceived attack, I lashed out in general, and for that I am deeply sorry and quite depressed. Had I stopped for a moment to think before posting, I would not have posted in that way, and I do wish Tamara had pulled the post immediately to minimize my embarassment.
Rereading these posts now, I find myself simply saddened that there is anyone who has gone through the kinds of issues we are struggling with every day can't be supportive. We are, after all, in a precarious position vis a vis the bulk of society at the moment, and any strife internally can only serve to further those negative voices from outside.
Again, my sincere apologies.
Last edited by suchacutie; 08-13-2009 at 09:50 AM. Reason: needed to be done!
Der Transsexuellaußenseiter
The lovers have flown...
[SIZE="3"]VENI VIDI VICI[/SIZE]
And another thing: What about those transexuals who come to their decisions to transition later in life, like the case of Alexus Sheppard? She didn't even try on women's attire until well into adult life. Had no idea that she would ever be transexual. Hmmm....no birth defect there. So if it's not a birth defect, does she have the right to even interact with "real" transexuals? You know, the "birth defectors"?
Just throwing gas on the fire. Just stirring the pot.
Any money found in the laundry is MINE!
"This is no social crisis....this is me having fun!"
www.flickr.com/photos/tgmarla/
I thought this disscussion, despite the obvious landmines, just might be somewhat worthwhile. Until I read this. I'd expect a statement like this from many places and people, but not here. Your anger has revealed an ignorance that is stunning.
You're no better than the yahoo's who would see me fired, thrown out of my home, and denied the use of any public facilities because of my "chromosomes". As a matter of fact, you are making one of their arguements. And the thing is, you oughtta know better. One would think, anyway. You should be ashamed of yourself.
Hugs,
Melissa
I also have tried to be polite here as well.
This is just plain rude and completely disrespectful. The only purpose of writing this was out of hate. If the message is, "can't we all get along and work together" then this completely nullified that message. I will assume, like the original subject of the post who took her view to a bit of an extreme, that this view also would be considered an extreme view compared to many on this forum. I have faith in the decency of those here. Please show me that it is not ill-placed.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
[SIZE="2"]Kelly Kelly Bo Belly Banarama Moe Mel Lee Fee Fie Foe Fell E KELLY![/SIZE] [SIZE="3"]~:>[/SIZE]
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f3...le-avatar1.jpg
[SIZE="3"]FABJSFADHH [SIZE="1"](Female At Birth Just Suffering From A Distended Hoo Haa)[/SIZE] Kelly[/SIZE]
WARNING: I'm a hopeless forum troll. I sometimes get carried away in arguments. I'm not from the USA and not a native speaker, which does mean I sometimes simply misunderstand.
Mainly here to find out who I am and learn. Having a place to let of steam to understanding people in relative anonymity is great!
---
Men run on testosterone, women on Toblerone.
Tina, I can understand the feeling behind such a sentiment, especially in reaction to the original quoted piece.
I hear it as: "So, you want to look down on me and call me a subhuman deviant? Well remember, I could just as easily call you a deluded self-hater. It doesn't feel too good to have your identity kicked out from under your feet, does it? Think about how you make others feel before you open your mouth next time."
At least that's what I think you're saying. It's a natural reaction to an un-asked-for slap like the original quote delivered.
I think the old, porverbial way of saying it is "people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones."
The original quote was from an embittered, miserable person who threw a lot of stones, and forgot that we all live in glass houses in one way or another, and I understand your reaction was to that person, and others who may choose to share the same snotty view.
I hope others here understand you weren't talking to them, or their whole 'community.' I think only a small number are as obnoxious in attitude as the person quoted in the OP.
At least, I hope so. :O Because it actually would be better if we all got along.
And so we go, on with our lives...
We know the Truth, but prefer Lies.
Lies are simple, simple is Bliss.
Why go against tradition, when we can admit defeat,
Live in Decline, be the victim of our own design?
I don't agree with this.
I'd like to try and have a honest discussion about this. If we can't have one here, then were can we? I'm not trying to offend anyone, I'd just like a real discussion, to learn more about myself and others. I will try to put words to my thoughts and feelings, please bear with me.
In the past I have often wondered if I was transexual. I have since then learned I am not. At least not in the sense that I can't live with myself as a male, and would do anything to become female. To that extent I agree that I am different from a transsexual.
It does not mean that I just want to dress in female clothes, and have never desired to be a woman. Currently I think that it was for the wrong reasons and it's not really what I desire, but part of why I am here is to discover who I really am and what my desires really are. It's why I value discussions like this.
I also know from this forum and personal experience, that some people start out as crossdressers, and then later in life, as the body chemistry changes, end up wanting to transition and end up leading a much happier rest of their life as the opposite sex afterwards. There is a grey area somewhere in between.
Even those that are clearly on one side of the CD/TS line, still share a lot of experiences in the taboos they break and things they go though and desire. Even if they not fully understand each other, they can still be allies.
What I learned over the past months/years is that for all the confusion, I identify as male, just not with some of the secondary characteristics that our culture has associated with that. Coming to understand that, I think has also given me a deeper insight into what identity and gender identity is in general.
I now understand that no matter how you look, deep down most people identify themselves as either male or female. A few on this forum might even fall outside of that.
As such I do think that I can understand that someone identifies themselves as either male or female, even if they are born with different physical characteristics. Maybe not completely, but I do think I understand more than most other people.
I am going trough a process, where I have questioned both my sex and my gender and have been unhappy with both. But unlike a transexual, my journey seems to be leading me back to finding a male core in myself, where if I had been transsexual, I would have ended up finding a female core. I also understand that if I had been transsexual, it usually would probably have been much clearer from the start. Still there are examples both on this forum and that I know in my real life, where it took people decades to really figure out who they were and fully transition.
Having found my male self, I think I have a much clearer idea of what it means and feels like to identify as male or female. I do understand that how our bodies look has little to do with it, it doesn't change the identity. Changing the body does change the feeling of being right and belonging though and it helps in making others accept and understand who we are too.
In a sense one of the key differences between the types of transgender feelings and behaviour, and transsexual feelings, is that in the case of a transsexual there is no confusion, no grey area as to where you belong and want to be. I can and do see where that separates transsexuals from "gender-confused" (for lack of a better term).
What I try to say, is that by being able to articulate what I am and what I am not, I do show that I have some insight into what I'm talking about. By understanding myself better, I also have gained some understanding of those that are different from myself. It is about identity and who you really are.
I'm struggling to put the right words to what I feel, please don't get offended and try to understand what I'm trying to say.
Last edited by Gerard; 08-12-2009 at 12:47 PM.
WARNING: I'm a hopeless forum troll. I sometimes get carried away in arguments. I'm not from the USA and not a native speaker, which does mean I sometimes simply misunderstand.
Mainly here to find out who I am and learn. Having a place to let of steam to understanding people in relative anonymity is great!
---
Men run on testosterone, women on Toblerone.
I didn't partake in this argument at all. Until now. For some reason, you have decided to insult me and all of my TS sisters. I don't know why, I haven't insulted you or other crossdressers at all. You statement above would not look out of place in some right wing nutjobs manifesto. I hope you are proud of yourself.
I debated leaving this up or deleting it.. I decided to leave it and tell you what a rude bitch you are. HOW DARE YOU insult my TS sisters on this board!!! If chromosomes dictate what you are, you are most certainly an ASS!!! I thought the original quote that started this thread was bad enough, but to read this, I'm seeing that she might just have a damn point. I wouldn't want you speaking on behalf of ANYONE, most certainly not my partner who is a crossdresser, because you are embarrassing to say the least.... wow...
And if you think that is rude... you've heard NOTHING yet... ignorant ignoramous!!!
Administrator
Missing my Libra babe Sherlyn, I hope she's rocking up there with the angels
Missing our Rianna, doesn't seem right, gone to early, hope she's partying with Sherlyn
Wow. Okay, I am not rushing to Tina's defense, she must speak for herself and either own or apologize for what she said. All I want to say is that we all sometimes express ourselves badly when emotions are running high, and this has been an extremely emotional thread with so much depth of pain and anger for so many of us. As I said, I can't speak for her and would never presume to put words in her mouth or anyone else's, all I can say is that I don't think she purposely intended to insult and wound so many in the group with what she said. I'm not defending her choice of words at all and think they are wrong and hurtful but she deserves the benefit of the doubt and to be heard.
Hugs...-Joni Mari
"Because equality is not a concept. It's not something we should be striving for. It's a necessity. Equality is like gravity. We need it to stand on this earth as men and women. And the misogyny that is in every culture is not a true part of the human condition. It is life out of balance, and that imbalance is sucking something out of the soul of every man and woman who's confronted with it."
--Joss Whedon, to a reporter who asked, "So why do you create these strong women characters?"
oops
suchacutie
You have pretty much summed up why we are leery of letting others define us
Your incredible ignorance does a much better job of it than the obnoxious quote that was used to start this thread..
thank you
in fact, i still don't understand why the original poster even started the thread....what was the point other than to gratuitously bash ts folks?...
Some people build walls around themselves......not to keep people outBut to see who cares enough to break them downSo thanks lisa for taking a bloody great sledgehammer to mine you certainly made short work of it
Loves you Poppetx
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I kind of feel I ought to expand on my partner's comment... See she's a 24/7 girl and does go to interviews and works as Debs... So in her life she's met equal if not worse prejudice to any TS who cares to mention it.
I'm a TS... She's a CD and I have nothing but absolute love and admiration for the person she is... for the life she has carved for herself. I can never quite understand why our respective sisters find it so hard to respect one another... Maybe we're the odd ones...
If we are I'm content.
Lisa x
Der Transsexuellaußenseiter
The lovers have flown...
[SIZE="3"]VENI VIDI VICI[/SIZE]
Thank you, Lisa.
Okay, here I go traipsing out into the minefield again with my blindfold on, and my cane, and wearing my swimfins. This is going to sound awfully stupid and naive and I am so sorry if it offends anyone or gets me flamed. But, what the hell, here goes.
We all have it tough, all of us, all of us who are here in this group, TG's, GG's, SO's, M2F, F2M, TS's who are post-op, pre-op, non-op, op-op-de-bepop, those who are living 24/7, those who want to but can't, those who have no clue at all who they are and where they're going, why in the hell can't we cut each other some slack and not assume the worst possible meaning from everything that is said? Why can't we try to be just a little effin bit kinder to one another? I mean, WTF! This is a support group, isn't it? Isn't it? Did I miss a disclaimer somewhere? Damn. Can we not assume the very worst motivation for every word that is said...except for the very first post, which was just mean and stupid. Crap.
Hugs...Joni Mari
"Because equality is not a concept. It's not something we should be striving for. It's a necessity. Equality is like gravity. We need it to stand on this earth as men and women. And the misogyny that is in every culture is not a true part of the human condition. It is life out of balance, and that imbalance is sucking something out of the soul of every man and woman who's confronted with it."
--Joss Whedon, to a reporter who asked, "So why do you create these strong women characters?"
Lisa, what I meant by that comment was that it's not right to call us elitist when we say that we have DIFFERENT struggles (those of us who are out there living or working in the gender opposite of that of our birth) than people who have their birth gender to default to when it gets tough...If your partner is out there working and doing that, she is obviously not who I was talking about, regardless of how they identify....To Me, it's not about how you identify, it's about what you face on a daily basis and how you live your life...And I also wasn't saying one is better than the other, we are just different and our problems have some similarities, but also, some differences....I will never get how it is elitist to say that....It's not....It's just reality....and we don't think we are special....or better.....I have no idea why everyone reading and posting in this thread is getting so upset....
Ever The Opportunist
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Life Is My Biatch
"Guns don't kill people, people kill people...and that's why I don't keep PEOPLE in My house." :SirTrey: