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Thread: Divorce, kids and crossdressing

  1. #26
    GG ReineD's Avatar
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    The CDing is private and does not impact the kids. Be honest with how you met. If the Judge feels an out-of-wedlock child is immaterial, why should he care how you met? Your sex life is private and it does not impact the kids. Answer the gift question. Unless BF has broken the bank and deprived the kids in order to lavish you with luxuries, it is not an impact. Email addresses and ISPs are private and do not impact the kids. The methods the two of you choose to communicate do not impact the kids. The social network sites you belong to do not impact the kids. The ex is trying to intimidate and frighten you. She cannot subpoena any of these records since the head offices of your ISPs, etc, are out of her State. Give the judge a nice pic of BF and you. Give the judge an accounting of your expenses in the last year, proving that the bulk went to living expenses and child support. With the vacations, unless the kids have suffered financially because of where you went, what does this info have to do with anything?

    Give the Judge details of each time BF tried to contact the kids but was foiled by the ex.

    I'm guessing the ex's attorney is asking this in an Interrogatory. Your lawyer can cite cases where it has been proven that the majority of the questions asked have absolutely no legal bearing on custody. The ex is trying to smear BFs character, and she can't if he refuses to play into her hands. You've done nothing wrong. Your answers, when applicable, need be reasonable.

    You can also ask all the same question of the ex, plus how many men has she slept with? Has she had any abortions? How many times has she had the kids babysat in order to spend nights with men? How many different men have they been exposed to?

    But, do discuss these points with your attorney. Mrs. X, the ex cannot smear your character. You are a decent person, a good mom to your kids, as is BF. That's all the Judge wants to know.
    Reine

  2. #27
    Member Jan Michell Collins's Avatar
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    I can't bleve that (s)he had a cort date for his rights and didn't show up !!! Sorry but that wasn't to smart on his part.

  3. #28
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    Total agreement here...

    Reine wrote to agree with an earlier post about "fairness" in justice...

    Quote Originally Posted by ReineD View Post
    And this is precisely my experience. I won't go into the details here other than to say in my case, the ex knew how to play the game better.
    This is right on the money. The law (even when "accurately" applied) has nothing whatsoever to do with "fairness". The Anglo-American judicial system is about rules, regulations, and protection for those lacking protection. (Remember, this is an "ideal" picture, your mileage may vary.)

    Reine went on to make a related and very important point:

    Quote Originally Posted by ReineD View Post
    It is my understanding that when individuals ... file Orders of Protection, the law doesn't take much time to deliberate just in case there is a real danger. The accused is immediately barred from having any contact, until he can prove that he is not a threat. In principle this makes sense because it errs on the side of caution.
    Again, this is exactly right.

    I hate to say it but BF was completely insane to allow his lawyer to go to court unattended. In the U.S. they generally call this "family court". This name should be interpreted to mean that you, as family, had better be there.

    And, in response to something else that was said on this forum, yes, bedroom behavior is completely valid. Family law is all about values. As such, all sorts of legally questionable material ends up in court. This is normal (though not necessarily "good" jurisprudence).

    A friend of mine (GG) made the mistake of writing a long erotic novel after her separation and before the divorce proceedings. Her ex captured the entire thing via a key logger and entered it as "evidence" that she is an unfit mother. Fortunately, the ploy did not work, but it seriously complicated matters.

    So, to conclude, the best bet is for BF to appear above reproach. Since he is military, always appear in court wearing an immaculate uniform. If possible, take friends, also in uniform. No one wants to be seen as denigrating a soldier serving his/her country.

    Most of all, appear in court at all times!

  4. #29
    Female Illusionist! docrobbysherry's Avatar
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    Mrs. X,

    Sounds like u r on the rite track now! DO NOT do anything without your attorney's approval FIRST!

    No phone calls, no filled out paperwork and, as Reine said, ABSOLUTELY no live interviews or interogatories without him/her there!

    By the way, in my divorce, my attorney was female. Altho it took 8 years, it came out EXACTLY as she predicted it would! But, I live in Cal. Divorce laws r different in every state!

    Last add:
    It's nice that folks here r trying to give u helpful advise on testimony and tactics. I will NOT give u any, however. Since every case is different, and since I'm NOT familiar with every single detail of yours, and since I'm NOT your attorney, any advise I gave u could be VERY WRONG! Remember any ideas that sound good to u here. Then, run them by your attorney. In the end, listen ONLY to your attorney! THAT'S why u need a REALLY GOOD ONE!
    Last edited by docrobbysherry; 09-03-2009 at 01:38 PM.
    U can't keep doing the same things over and over and expect to enjoy life to the max. When u try new things, even if they r out of your comfort zone, u may experience new excitement and growth that u never expected.

    Challenge yourself and pursue your passions! When your life clock runs out, you'll have few or NO REGRETS!

  5. #30
    GG ReineD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by docrobbysherry View Post
    any advise I gave u could be VERY WRONG! Remember any ideas that sound good to u here. Then, run them by your attorney. In the end, listen ONLY to your attorney!
    I said lots of things too, but please don't do anything without consulting with the attorney. Also, I missed a court date 2 years ago due to weather. I was stuck in an airport overnight. A lot of people told me that Judges don't forgive this easily, no matter how good my reasons.

    And I love Stephanie's point about wearing an impeccable uniform.
    Reine

  6. #31
    Silver Member giuseppina's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. X (gg) View Post
    We cant consider the media as an option, he works for the military they have the rule don't ask don't tell and he can actually get fired if they knew. I mean she already has called his sargeants to tell all about it but they ignored her since he has an impeccable behavior record.
    This isn't a good idea anyway. It can be used against your husband as evidence of an unfit parent.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. X (gg) View Post
    We even don't mind to pay whatever she wants as far as he can be with his kids and get this over with. But this is beyond the money issue, she really wants to burn him in every possible way.
    Bad idea. This is a foot-in-the-door technique that can be used by the ex to bankrupt you and your husband. From what you’ve already posted, I think she is fully capable and willing to do this.

    Perhaps a barrister experienced in dealing with abusive relationships from the abused’s point of view would help. From what I see here, it is clear that emotional abuse is taking place. Proving it, unfortuneately, is difficult at the best of times. IMHO an expert witness (a psychiatrist sympathetic to and a lot of experience with properly dealing with gender issues) will be required if your barrister doesn’t have much understanding of transgender issues. A psychiatrist’s expert testimony normally overrules a social worker’s.

    Her adultery sets a very poor example to her children. It says to them that breaking wedding vows is acceptable to get her way is acceptable behaviour, and evidence of parental unfitness.

    His crossdressing can be used to teach tolerance of diversity, a positive impact on his children. There is far too much intolerance in this world, and it is in every country. I intend to assist in defeating the current intolerant Canadian government come election time for this and many other reasons.

    This is likely against your nature, but you are going to have to learn to fight fire with fire, if not high explosives. No more Mr. & Mrs. Nice People. This is going to take an ethical but ruthless and well-researched barrister (in court, at least) who is not afraid to delve into the minutiae of the previous marriage to have any chance of success. You may be falsely accused of prevaricating to get your way. It’s happened to me.

    I wish I could say otherwise, but this is very likely to get worse before it gets better. I hope you don’t have to deal with an elected judge because they tend to get thrown out of office if they hand down too many unpopular but legally correct decisions.

    Good luck.

  7. #32
    Love = Acceptance Mrs. X (gg)'s Avatar
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    We have the most brilliant caring people in this site I didn't know where else to turn too but my family here.

    Fire with fire:
    He didn't want to hurt her at all, she is the mother of his children, but she has taken this way to far and yes Im doing whatever I can to give him the tools to prove her wrong. Ive been contacting attorneys, reading the law, other similar cases...Oh! research and research for days, to find out where we are and what we can hold on to.

    BF will not give up. She can get away with money and sadly to say she might also damage the relationship with his kids to some point, but all this will go so far. Eventually they will grow up and make their own mind about what's happening and this is life beyond her control. She can have it all... BUT US!

    There is a positive side to all this though. I feel free...I, myself was pondering in what I now see as insignificant issues of his cding that are not even in the back burner anymore, they just disappeared. Through this process I realize I love this man so much, Im willing to go to whatever extent to help him, to ease his pain and to support him whatever the outcome. He has been punished for this way too long and I was also adding to this with my lack of faith in his words. It takes us these wake up calls to understand that Life is above and beyond the drama and heartache we choose to consume ourselves in. That there are more important issues out there besides the clothes ones wear, like the possibility of losing your kids, or not being able to be with that person you love. For this enlightment Im grateful.

    Definitely I will run all through our lawyer, whom will be. We have to focus on BF getting into court ASAP to start some damage control, to face the judge and to set the record straight. I just hope the new lawyer we're approaching be the right one to help us do this and that she contacts us soon. I'll give her an extra day or two and I will call her back.

    I have to thank you all dearly for your thoughts and imput. You have given me light and so many things to think about..I feel supported and with hopes again.

    [SIZE="2"]"At the end, what really matters is whom you love and who loved you"[/SIZE]

  8. #33
    Female Illusionist! docrobbysherry's Avatar
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    OMG, Mrs. X,

    U sound like SUCH a good person!

    I DO hope things with your BF workout!
    U can't keep doing the same things over and over and expect to enjoy life to the max. When u try new things, even if they r out of your comfort zone, u may experience new excitement and growth that u never expected.

    Challenge yourself and pursue your passions! When your life clock runs out, you'll have few or NO REGRETS!

  9. #34
    Aspiring Member pattyv's Avatar
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    Mrs X. You are truly a beautiful person.My best wishes for a positive outcome for you and your BF.

  10. #35
    Silver Member giuseppina's Avatar
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    Professional Journal articles and other items

    Hello again Mrs. X,

    By fighting fire with fire I didn't mean deliberately trying to hurt the ex. I meant to suggest that you use the ex's actions against her.

    I've listed some articles below. To avoid running afoul of the links rules, I've posted titles. Google or your favourite search engine should be able to find them.

    This is a professional journal article. Payment is required to obtain the full text.

    Surprise! Men Who Cross-Dress Are Similar to Men Who Don't

    Another journal article for which payment is required.

    How Intimate Relationships Are Impacted When Heterosexual Men Crossdress

    This one says accredited social work programs often don't include courses on dealing with crossdressing or other forms of transgenderism. The title and issue of the journal in which it appears is listed. You may be able to find this at a university where social work is taught.

    Social Work Education: Implications for Working With the Transgender Community

    This is a psychologist's website who deals with gender issues. Not all of the information is about transition.

    Anne Vitale PhD: Notes on Gender Role Transition

    This one says transvestic fetishism is not a diagnosable illness simply because society (or some members of society) says it is. The quotes are required to get it to appear at the top of search results.

    "Transvestic Fetishism: Iatrogenic Artifact?"

    Cheers
    Giuseppina

  11. #36
    Love = Acceptance Mrs. X (gg)'s Avatar
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    Fire with fire = hurt
    OH no darling I didn't get it that way either!!!!!

    I meant that in our wildest dreams we thought this would get this complicated and she would treat him this way. We figured since she was the one with wrong-doing, they don't have any assets just bills he is paying for entirely anyway, this was to agree kids visitation and child support and done deal. He even took the case to TN but UT would have jurisdiction as well...they lived here as married for the last few years when she decided to return to her hometown. But then again, he thought she would skip court (no money for traveling expenses) and this would drag too long. Imagine that!!! Were we naive or what?

    This didn't had to be this hard and all this money spent. Why she brought up his Cding? They are separated...Why does it matter? Kids behalf? Nah, vengeance is the real mood. She knows he's a great dad.

    Well BF has a job we can go slowly but steady as long as we need too...she can't say the same, she's doesn't want to work, she's basically paying with the child support and help from her family members, that eventually won't last. Yes! fire with fire is are only alternative now, she wants things this way.

    I will look into the articles...Ive been googling like mad. There's not much of cding cases in TN. And according to the lawyer is the first deligitimize case in that county as well In this day and age ppl don't do DNA there?

    Thank you all for your words of support and Giuseppina for your help!!!!

    [SIZE="2"]"At the end, what really matters is whom you love and who loved you"[/SIZE]

  12. #37
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    I suggest that he contact the ACLU and get their help. But the most important thing is for him to be in court every time. His failure to be in court cost him a lot of points with the Judge. If he is not willing to take the time to come to court and stand up for himself on all issues all the judge has to go on is his wife's imput. Just seeing him dressed nice in a man's suit would have helped him in his defense. If all the judge sees is his attorney then he will get the impression that what the wife is saying is true. Remember that communications is 90% non verbal. The judge needs to see him to be able to get a feel as to what kind of person he is. He must be in court in person no matter who he gets to defend him.

  13. #38
    Closet crossdresser Gerard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sheidelmeidel View Post
    Crysten, I think you're right in theory, but it's not a good idea to lie in court unless you have a good lawyer that will teach you how to be a good liar.
    It was my initial idea too, but I have to agree. If the judge finds out you're lying, then they'll have a real reason.

    Divorce often is a nasty affair. Closest I've dealt with it, is my uncle and aunt. What I learned there is that the children need to be with both parents, and that constant fighting over the child makes a real mess.
    Try to convince the judge that the interest of the child should be the most important factor. And then try to show that a child needs to see both sides and be with both parents. Have the judge set any conditions that they want about the CD-ing, but try to make the point that a child that truly knows both its parents will grow up to be a person that knows much better where they come from.

    Depending on the defence, you might find the story of Salomon useful, about what he did when to women came to him claiming a child. He said he would chop it in two and give each a half. Then the real mother said anything but that. That way he knew it was her child.

    I don't know the details, but a good defence will be needed, it is about the story and how it's told.

    In the end try to do what is best for the children, and try not to be bitter. Keeping that focus will also give more confidence answering tough questions, which can be important in the non-verbal communication.
    WARNING: I'm a hopeless forum troll. I sometimes get carried away in arguments. I'm not from the USA and not a native speaker, which does mean I sometimes simply misunderstand.

    Mainly here to find out who I am and learn. Having a place to let of steam to understanding people in relative anonymity is great!
    ---
    Men run on testosterone, women on Toblerone.

  14. #39
    Silver Member giuseppina's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. X (gg) View Post
    I meant that in our wildest dreams we thought this would get this complicated and she would treat him this way. We figured since she was the one with wrong-doing, they don't have any assets just bills he is paying for entirely anyway, this was to agree kids visitation and child support and done deal. He even took the case to TN but UT would have jurisdiction as well...they lived here as married for the last few years when she decided to return to her hometown. But then again, he thought she would skip court (no money for traveling expenses) and this would drag too long. Imagine that!!! Were we naive or what?

    This didn't had to be this hard and all this money spent. Why she brought up his Cding? They are separated...Why does it matter? Kids behalf? Nah, vengeance is the real mood. She knows he's a great dad.
    Welcome to the world of divorces.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. X (gg) View Post
    Well BF has a job we can go slowly but steady as long as we need too...
    Good for him. But no more missing court dates!

    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. X (gg) View Post
    she can't say the same, she's doesn't want to work, she's basically paying with the child support and help from her family members, that eventually won't last.
    That’s exactly what I am talking about with the ‘fire with fire’ comment. Unless she has a certificate of disability or the equivalent from a medical doctor or a list of hundreds of potential employers that have received her resume, this is evidence of unwillingness to take responsibility for the children and thus lack of fitness to be a parent. An accusation of failing to provide the necessities of life is probably going too far, but a cagey barrister might do just that to destabilise a witness on the stand.

    It’s against my nature and probably yours, but you and your husband must, if you haven’t done so already, find your hard noses and selfishly, cynically, and shamelessly use this kind of thing to destroy the ex’s credibility. You and your husband, on the other hand, must be beyond reproach.

    The same sort of thing can be used to expose gaps in an expert witness’s qualifications. Yes, I’m being hard-nosed here.

    A word or two about the articles I found, for you and others in your situation:

    I found these items with search terms of “crossdress” and “journal” (no enclosing quotes) and looking at the first 500 or so results. You will get more results with “transvestism” and “journal” that “crossdress” doesn’t pick up. The term “journal” eliminated most of the p**n and brought the academic journal articles closer to the top. Unfortunately, it didn’t get rid of a large amount of mostly innocuous but irrelevant material.

    It’s a safe bet that the journals publishing the papers I found contain other papers of interest in other issues. Journals are published at regular intervals and called periodicals in libraries.

    The list of references at the end of research papers is sometimes more valuable than the content. Obtaining copies of preceding work is part of the process.

    University library catalogues are another great index to relevant material. Most if not all their “card catalogues” are posted and searchable on the internet, or at least they are near where I live. There are computerised indices of journal and conference papers available inside the library building(s), but usage may be restricted to students and faculty. I’ve taken the attitude that if things are open for use, I quietly and discreetly use the resources until I’m caught. That hasn’t happened, yet. If use of the search engines requires a password, a stroll through the periodical stacks may provide the names of journals you can search at home over the internet. Look for “sex” , “gender” and anything else that catches your eye in the titles.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. X (gg) View Post
    I will look into the articles...Ive been googling like mad. There's not much of cding cases in TN. And according to the lawyer is the first deligitimize case in that county as well In this day and age ppl don't do DNA there?
    It would be to your advantage to cast your net wider than your home state for case law. If you win your case, it may be precedent setting in your county, but I strongly suspect there are others before you that won similar cases. Case law depends very strongly on preceding decisions. There are others on the forum who have won custody despite male crossdressing. I’m not sure they would appreciate me naming names, and besides, I don’t remember who they are.

    I'm not a lawyer, but it seems to me that you are going to have to provide a solid reason for breaking precedent to win your case. Debunking societal stereotypes is required. These and other journal papers may help, but there probably isn't a substitute for an expert witness. Yes, it will be expensive and IMO it's worth looking into.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. X (gg) View Post
    Thank you all for your words of support and Giuseppina for your help!!!!

    You’re welcome.

    Cheers
    Giuseppina

    Another idea: Perhaps the judge could light a fire under the ex by ordering her to look for work.
    Last edited by giuseppina; 09-07-2009 at 03:04 PM. Reason: Another idea.

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