"Feminine" How do you Define it ????

[mand]

"Feminine" it's a word that is used on this forum all the time. Do we all have different interpretations of it or is there a general consensus amongst the girls on here as to what it means?
I can't help suspecting that we all veiw what is "feminine" in our own individual ways?

I tried to post an answer on Emmi's thread "How Feminine are You" the other day and I really couldn't answer it. This has made me think what is my definition of "Feminine"?
The answer for me is .............a freedom of expression. I once read a post on another forum that really rang true to me, I can't remember who said it but she said "A man has to be a man but a woman can be herself", I really do identify with those words.
If a woman puts on a work shirt, jeans and a pair of rigger boots picks up a chain saw goes into the woods and cuts down a few trees, then people veiw this as ok, she is just expressing herself, doing what she wants to do.
On the other side of the coin, if a man was to put on a dress, high heels, make up and join a sewing class, then people would veiw this as somewhat strange beahviour, simply not a done thing.
Also expressing feelings and emotions, a woman cries at a sad film, thats ok, she is just showing her feeelings in a phyisical way, a guy cries at a sad film, Oh dear he must be some kinda "wuss".

So I would say the defiinition of the word "feminine" to me is the freedom to express my feelings, by wearing the clothes, make up, hair and everything else that goes with it I am just expressing how I feel, and if I feel like crying when watching a sad film, I do it.

Thats just my veiw of the word, like I said I suspect everyone has their own individual veiws of what it means.

love mand xxx

[ladyjim]

femininity I equate with open mindedness as well, mand! Well said!

[norbie]

Hi All ,
Fully agree with your statement Dear Mand but I see Feminity a bit more, like behaviour, cloth, manners, walking , talking and so on.
For me, Feminity means wearing no pants, just figure huging dresses, talking using expressions and hands.
I think a lot of you would agree that there is nothing more beautyful as a Lady walking in high heels - every step comes out from the hips - chin up and one foot in front of the other.
Or how she holds the sauser(?) and cup when she drinks tea or coffee, sitting pretty with legs together.
And this is the secret of todays GG (and us): she can work and do any job during the day, wearing dirty overalls and so on. But comes home, and change in a true femine Lady. This is very hard and is expecting a lot and it needs a TRUE LADY to handle this..
Just my thought - don't stone me all you GG's on this Forum
Love and biiig bear hugs from Norbie

[Lauren_T]

I agree, Mand. Masculinity is rigid, restrictive, conformist, authoritarian. Femininity is as you say. (It goes even deeper, but for now, let's go w/ that.) I've personally come to realize that my identification with the feminine is due to my core desire to express myself freely. As I abhor conformity, authority, competition (vs cöoperation), "might-makes-right," I must reject masculinity.

I mean, human society requires the two genders, and whatever acceptance gender-variant people achieve, we'll forever be a small minority. Sobeit. But the conflict between us and gender traditionalists (i.e. most men, plus the women who are socially brainwashed into accepting male "superiority" as the natural order of things) is follows the same pattern as other conflicts within society: one side, in this case ours, says 'we're different; we like the way we are but we don't expect or ask that others be like us, we simply want acceptance.' The other side says, 'We like the way we are. And since the way we are is obviously the correct and only way to be, you must be like us. AND since there's more of us, AND since we're the strong ones, we're going to force you to conform. If you don't comply, you shall be punished straightaway. If we can't overtly punish you, we can still ostracize you.'

BTW, you ever notice how this is like right-wing political beliefs and fundamentalist religion? The more selfish, primitive, animalistic, regressive, simplistic and farther from the truth a belief is, the more it's followers (out of insecurity) feel they have the right to force it on others, who by and large don't want to force anything on anyone, they just want to live their own lives.

So much of what goes on here is about one thing only, in various guises: acceptance & rejection of our persons, and how to cope with it, how we react to it and, of course, bitching about same! Crikey, but I wish more of our lives could be spent enjoying the softer side of life, rather than squandered on the maliciousness and idiocy of those who refuse to just stand aside and let us get on with it!

Not to criticize others, by implication or otherwise, but I don't personally care much about "being" a woman; after all, I'm not, having been born with a dingus that I plan to keep. But I do like the gentle, subtle, free, open, sensual, personal side of life. I MEAN, I enjoyed the Lethal Weapon and Terminator films - like most - but give me a Gwyneth Paltrow or a Cate Blanchett movie any time, even if it means my male mates aren't likely to come over and watch w/ me. Enya & Sally Oldfield & Donna Lewis speak to me; Ted Nugent & Van Halen & Mick Jagger don't. I identify with Stevie Nicks, not Stevie Ray!

The rigidity of traditional male minds completely prevents them from even imagining the self-expressive possibilities (let alone the freedom!) and pleasures to be gotten from the creative use of attire, cosmetics, &c.

Ectually (that's my bogus English accent creeping in), that's all for the best, innit? I mean, "Real Men" don't like girly things? Right, then! More for us!

yrs in sisterhood and girliosity
Lauren



BTW, apropos of almost exactly nothing: Mand, you're looking TDF. You're a fine example of how the UK has the loveliest gels on the planet, genetic or otherwise!
.

[Tristen Cox]

Okay here goes something...

Define? hmm... How often do you see men able to cry when they're sad about something or among friends, even at a theater these days? As a woman it's fine, perhaps even expected. Emotion is allowed whereas men don't often have that opportunity. Men are allowed to be happy and angry. But for a man to blush or cry and say something touched themm because it was so dear or sweet, well your buddies(chums) laugh at you.

How many guys take really good care with their hands and finger nails? How many spend the time to keep them pretty looking? For a woman this is part of life for most of them and no one bats an eye. How often do you go up to some guy and say "hey Frank great looking nails"?

Words that I have become familiar with here like hunny and dear are pretty much not things you call other 'men', although if you yourself are female it's fine. Also a lot of guys may infact like their homes to be clean and well ordered, but how often do they get flowery thingys and pretty colors to decorate and 'pretty' their living spaces up?

Okay I could get into clothes and shoes but most of us already know which are more comfortable to wear and certainly have more variety to chose from.

I suppose a lot has to do with the state of mind you are in as to what makes you 'feel' feminine. Society has drawn lines that devide how you should act and what you should say and wear. I believe crossing those lines is ok but society is the ones that put defining labels on masculine and feminine. So in their eyes this is feminine, that is not. Do I care? Nope. Never liked their ways and definitions anyhow so I don't subscribe to their beliefs. I am me, whatever you may wish to call me, I am still me. forever.

Gawd I could go on, but I'm not getting anywhere am I?

Thanks alot Mand I'll get you for this

[Wendy me]

Feminine" How do you Definite ???? as you said abought a woman cutting trees and all thatand a "guy" wearing a dress ....well to me the best way to Definite it is it is something in confedence , attudiued ...the way a person carryes them selfe just how comfy thay are in theire own skin ...

[ronna]

Wearing a dress works for me!
Lipstick and nylons help a lot, too

[Katie Ashe]

Mand, reading the posts, I couldn't define either. I agree with everyone here. But, after reading all of your thoughts, I kinda gathered mine, sorta.

Feminine: Desirable, attractive, soft/sexy eye candy...

I guess for me, it's a physical thing. I'm just under 5"5' and 185Lbs. I'd rather be 120Lbs and 5"7'. Statisicly I'm short and fat. When dressed, mentally I feel Fem. I probly need help .

Katie

[Lauren_T]

Feminine? Define?

( I got off on a rant on my earlier post)

There's almost as many definitions as there are people, dont'ya think?

At least I know it when I see it and I know it when I BE it...

But really, it's in the mind, innit? 'Feminine' is an attitude, an outlook, a mindset. No amount of makeup, no amount of frilly gossamer can make you fem if you don't THINK like a gel. Or am I wrong?

[Trinity_cat]

Feminine?

I'd say it is all down to 3 things. Mannerism, posture and emotion.

Manner...The way a woman walks,talks and moves are different from men.
A woman out cutting down trees all day, comes home, sits down knees together, brushes a lock of hair from her face and says, "Phew, I'm f*^%$£."
A little rude but still fem. A man would come in crash down on the sofa scratch his crotch and say "Me too", or words to that effect.
This also brings in Posture. Fem sitting erect with back straight and knees together. The male slouched on the sofa like a sack of potatoes.
Emotions...Always on the surface of the mind. Reminds me of the old western movies where the gunpowder shack always gets blown up.

Katie, I think your idea is a little off. You're discribing the perfect 'WOMAN' not FEM

Weight and height have nothing to do with FEM. It is all in the mind.

[Krystal Lee]

Define feminine...... Hummmm.
How you approach life, as in enjoying the softer things and not just our clothes but our attitude. Being empathetic, and able to show it in public and to our friends.
The desire to nurture and protect without the macho.
Self expression without fear of rejection.
Danm this it tougher than I thought it would be!
Further thought is required on this. Hugs Krystal.

[Tamara Croft]

It's a hard one to explain. But to me, being feminine means that I look like and feel like a woman. I like to feel soft, feel delicate, be gentle and look pretty. Have my nails done, hair all nice, make-up all perfect. It doesn't matter to me what shape or height you are, it's how you feel inside and what makes you feel fem Now if you would have asked me this over a year ago, I don't think I would have came out with the same thing.

[susandrea]

To be the devil's advocate here, "femininity" can also mean bitchy, whiney, shallow, fearful, weak, suspicious, unreasonable, Diva-ish, mean, selfish, and plenty of other negatives.

How many women do I know that feel they are owed a life of leisure, and will gladly--even proudly--marry a rich man they don't love just for the money? (I work with one like that).

I work for a woman who throws a hissy fit at the drop of a hat and desperately needs either better medication or a swift kick in the ass.

I know loads of women who are voracious shopaholics that can't wait to spend money on bags of crap, pushing their families into financial messes that take years--if ever--to get out of.

I know women who henpeck their familiy members to DEATH. Professional control freaks and bitches from hell.

I know women who are sweet as pie to your face, but think nothing of gossiping about you behind your back, even to the point of telling outright lies--- purely for entertainment purposes.

I know many women who will stay in an abusive relationship because they are impossibly fearful of standing on their own two feet. They feel they HAVE to have a man or they are worthless, so they'll hang on to what they've got no matter what.

I know many, many women who haven't cracked open a book since they graduated from school. They also don't much care about the news or anything else that doesn't relate directly to themselves or their family. They honestly can't carry on much of an adult conversation, instead discussing forever details about their kids, their husbands, and their stuff.

I know you all know all this stuff, that being feminine isn't all sweetness and light, but no one has mentioned it yet so I thought I would.

You may also find the following link interesting (and scary?) if you haven't already seen it:

http://www.ultimatefemininity.com/

I know this represents just a small percentage of women out there--or does it? The current religious right is growing stronger every day, and that means fewer options for women, not more. The thing is, some women feel this is the way things SHOULD be, and pass that on to their children.

Anyway, my perception of "femininity" would be someone who combines the best women can offer without compromising herself or others in the process. Someone who is quietly strong, but who gets things done because they can see both sides of the picture and aren't afraid to reach out and discuss hard issues-- and aren't afraid to do what needs to be done to get there. You get extra points for grace and style, but it's not a requirement.

I get so frustrated with my women friends in particular in how they wait on their kids (especially their sons) hand and foot. They think it's actually WRONG to get a teenaged boy to pick up after himself, learn to cook, wash clothes, or shop. They are allowed to mow the lawn and take the car for an oil change, but that's it! It boggles my mind. Now I know why the men I lived with could be such helpless babies. And why many of the women I know,and know well, are clueless wonders.

Sorry for the rant, and I won't blame it on PMS this time!

Oh! And I forgot all the ones that go to ridiculous measures to stay young looking-- even though it makes them look foolish and childish-- because they never bothered to create and establish other identities for themselves except their beauty. Grrrr!

[Khriss]

Audrey Hepburn

[emmicd]

Good question Mand!

To me femininity is a state of being in touch with personal feelings and expression. It also denotes beauty, sensitivity, emotions, softness, elegance. style.

A beautiful woman dressed elegantly and walking so effortlessly and with such poise is the very essence of femininity.

When you walk in the city and you see a beautiful woman walking down the block you can't help but notice and my typical reaction as she walks past me is to check her out from behind also. You cant help but to turn around.

She could be wearing a floral dress or tight jeans. It doesn't matter. She is feminine and also beautiful.

Emmi

[Sweet Jeanette]

Feminine, in me, is the urge I feel in me, to be like women. I don't try to dissect it, or anylize it. I just do it, or try to. I know this sounds silly, but I can't think of another way to put it!

[emmicd]

Mand,

I forgot the most important part of femininity!

The ability to carry a baby 9 months and really show it but take it all in stride!

Also women are known for the ability for having a high tolerance for pain as they are very familiar with childbirth!

Emmi

[Ava Mouse]

Great thread Mand!

I honestly can't answer it in a few words either. Though I certainly agree with many of the other posts .

On one hand, masculinity can be used to contrast against femininity, BUT femininity is NOT the opposite of masculinity... Though many men think to be masculine is to be anti-feminine in EVERY aspect of life.

For example, being gentle is NOT unique to women, and I know men that refuse to be gentle due to their insecurities. They gotta unneccesarily slam/bump everything, leave a mess, and break things all the time.

Masculinity can be quite fake. Both can be, but macho is 100% fake.

I think feminity is a much more natural humanness. Man contrasts to natural order, feminity is a reflection of natural beauty.

[Ophelia D'Void]

Heya everyone,

Been away for a while (busy) but just thought I'd chirp in on the subject...

I was having a discussion with Ayla the other night, and we actually got to talking about what it is to be feminine and masculine, and I brought up my hypothesis on Masculine and Feminine Mythology.

As males, we are given an archetype by which to follow. Our sex defines who we are (theoretically), and as a result we are born into a fraternity with strange cultures and mythologies. We are taught to not only be men, but often times to be as manly as possible. We are made to emulate our fathers, and like it or not we often do. But who exactly do our fathers emulate? Who is it that our fathers looked up to? Or their fathers? Men are ultimately given templates by which to follow... other men, or even myths about manly men. Men who do great things, men who conquer, men who keep the peace or seek greatness and acheive it. In order to acheive greatness we maintain a supreme focus with almost samurai-like focus, but at the cost of the present.

Now as females (I imagine), little girls are taught either consciously or subconsciously that women should celebrate the now, as opposed to the future (well, with the exception of the whole marriage thing), and to appreciate beauty. Women should be pretty, women should love cute furry things, women should have a nice home and should know which duvet matches the sofa slip cover. As opposed to Alexander the Great or Hercules, their mythic heroes would include Diana, Athena, and the Virgin Vespan priestesess. Even in celtic religions and in other countries where society is less phallocentric, women are more the nurturers and less the hunters. There are many myths that empower women as well, such as the Amazons (A-Mazon=Greek for "no breast", due to the supposed practice of Amazons to cut off their right breast so as to shoot a bow and arrow better, but that's off subject), but on the whole women have a different template for behavior.

So these differing philosophies affect the different world views of each gender. Even down to the household interactions or work interactions, where women can multi-task on the phone while on the computer while playing the banjo while vacuuming ad infinitum, and with guys, we sit down and watch the tv and sometimes we can drink a beer (sometimes), but heaven help anyone that's trying to talk to us while we're watching our favorite program. Stoicism vs. Epicureanism, a laser beam vs. a bead trimmed hand-made paper shaded table lamp. It's a wonder that men and women can interact at all.

Sometimes I get the impression that as crossdressers we do our best to see things from a female perspective, but at the same time we see things through a male colored filter. We see dresses and skirts as a passport to the realm of Titiana and faeries, and although we wear skirts as short as we like, we don't have to deal with reprimands or epiphets like "****" (usually "crossdresser" is more than enough). We find female activities to be new and different than what we're accustomed to, although to women they would seem to be mundane or even tiresome tasks, like struggling with a pair of pantyhose or worrying about an updraft showing a little upskirt. And although there has been a power shift lately, with women seeing less of the "good housewife" stereotype of the 1950's, they have many body issues that men don't, because when women choose a mate personality is more important, whereas with men, who are more visual, looks are the most important thing. So women have unrealistic body types with which to compare themselves. Ah, but I'm getting off subject again.

Welp, that's my hypothesis on what femininity is, in contrast to masculinity...

O

[susandrea]

Just got back from work and re-read my rant. Tsk! Tsk!

Anyway, just had a bowl of blackberry chocolate chip ice cream and would like say one thing:

Juliette Binoche

[Angela Burke]

not being masculine (whatever that means!)
sharing and caring ?

angela xx

[Alie]

Feminine. . .Women feel

Masculine. . . Men react

Men are from Mars

Women are from Venus

Where are CD's from?

[Angela Burke]

virgin record stores ?

[Tristen Cox]

Feminine. . .Women feel

Masculine. . . Men react

Men are from Mars

Women are from Venus

Where are CD's from?

Funny I was discussing that with some one but all we could come up with as an answer was Uranus

[Deborah]

I can't define it without starting to babble.
I just know that my deep down feelings are filled with emotions and my thought patterns are not the same as a macho male. There are just things that i wish i could do without being called a pansy or wuss.
Eg
Giggling
Crying
Being flamboyant
Being touchy feely (not to extremes though)

I'm sure there are more but i'm tired right now.