It Ain't the Same When They Think You're a Guy

[Persephone]

There have been a couple of threads here lately about acceptance when being "a guy in a dress."

And I'm sure there is a level of acceptance, but I've noticed at least one big difference between people who see you as a woman and people who perceive you as "a guy in a dress," even if they know and aceept you.

Among those women who know I'm "male," I never get a compliment.

It's really a telling item about how you're being accepted.

When I'm in full femme mode, women who know me only as a woman, or even strangers who don't know me at all, will often compliment something -- "Oh! What cute shoes!" or "Oh! That's such a lovely ring!"

Never seems to happen among those who see me as "a guy in a dress," no matter how cute my shoes or how lovely my jewelry, and without such standard woman-to-woman communication, maybe we're really being "tolerated" rather than being accepted among women as "one of us."

Your thoughts?

[Cheshire Gummi]

I can only concur. Nine times out of ten, when some girl really gets to know me for me, I get treated entirely differently.

They're more ready to hug, share, and compliment. They're visibly more at ease and verbally more relaxed. When they think I'm "just a dude" they treat me as such. They act like I'm after their vagina and that I don't care about feelings or ideas. When I defy their expectations, I'm treated like I'm diseased.

However, that's honestly just another brick in the wall. Gender definition and expectations. Some people accept our definitions and treat us like they think they should, granted, but that's not really saying much. It's just proof that people think they know what we are.

[Kate Simmons]

It depends a lot on the individual person really. I learned a long time ago it's better to be myself than to put on some kind of "act". People will either like you or not, presentation notwithstanding. Simply put, I'd rather be accepted or not for who I am rather than who I am not. It's just too difficult to keep up a pretense.

[Sara82]

perhaps you aren't getting comments when your a "Guy in a dress" because most people aren't comfortable with that idea. When you are passing as a woman, there is no uncomfortability factor, so they just treat you as they would any other woman.

Being accepted as a crossdresser, and tricking people into thinking your a woman are two different things.

[Rachel Morley]

If they really do perceive you as a woman then there's no "male sexual threat". Even as a guy in a dress (i.e. not a regular guy) you're still a guy as far as they are a concerned and IMHO, like it or not, to some women, any guy (even one in a dress) is a potential threat on some level. My point is, it's probably got nothing to do with the way you are dressed.

[Kathi Lake]

Barbara, I never go out as anything but a "guy in a dress" (admittedly, a very beautiful dress, but I guess that's immaterial ). I don't change my voice or act in any way that is not me. All of those times, I find that I'm treated just fine. I still get compliments on my shoes, my hair, my figure, my attitude (but never my face. Go figure).

Yes, there are those that will turn away and pretend I don't exist. There are those that will roll their eyes or smirk. I say too bad for them. Too bad that they're not willing to look outside their normal lives and take the risk of knowing someone just a wee bit different. From what I'm told, I'm a nice person and a good friend. So, it seems like their loss, as well as mine.

Kathi

[Karren H]

Personally.. I wouldn't know because no one compliments me either way! Sigh.. Ok there were some cat wistles a few times.. but I couldn't tell who they thought I was!

[dilane]

There have been a couple of threads here lately about acceptance when being "a guy in a dress."
...
Among those women who know I'm "male," I never get a compliment.

My gg friends who all know my true sex (but who haven't seen me in boymode) do give me compliments and fuss over me from time to time. However, I do vibe femme, with voice, etc when I'm dressed.

I got a compliment last weekend from a woman in Starbucks ("That's a cute skirt!"), and then later on she was my Clinique makeup lady, and didn't bat an eye when I had to show her my boy-id, so I assume that she read me when she gave the compliment. I can't say that I experience a non-compliment mode when I'm known to be a T-girl.

[DianneRoberts]

If I could pass I'd go any where any time.


I don't want to be a guy in a dress, that's not what I want.

That is the difference for me.
And that should be OK, everybody is different.

[donnatracey]

Dianne, you are not alone. Agree 100%......

[sherri52]

Notice; the strangers in your life treat you as a woman, that tells me you pass. It is your friends who treat you differently. The question really is " Do your friends support you or tolerate you"?

[Megan70]

Shoes, its always the shoes and the expression is alway the same
"aren't those cute shoes, and maybe where did you get them. I do believe that GG's are unable to vocally pronouce "very nice" in place of "cute". It just doesn't happen.They never learned it in the english lanqguage
Next is always the skirt or jewelry they too are "cute" or they "are just so adorable". Now I talk like that back to them in my femme voice.

[Michelle_Sullivan]

There have been a couple of threads here lately about acceptance when being "a guy in a dress."

I'm never a guy in a dress..... Though sometimes I get asked "Are you a girl or a guy?" Question is, would you (anyone reading this) consider that a compliment or an insult...?

My take is it's a compliment as the person has either spotted my adams apple, my prominent brow or heard my voice all croaky (particularly after smoke machines in night clubs have had their turn on my voice.) ie something gave away the fact I wasn't born to a female body, but otherwise they would never have guessed.

My ex's take is its an insult, but that was her, and all about her...

And I'm sure there is a level of acceptance, but I've noticed at least one big difference between people who see you as a woman and people who perceive you as "a guy in a dress," even if they know and aceept you.

Among those women who know I'm "male," I never get a compliment.

All those that have met me in the last 6 months, love me for who I am, and don't care who I was. I am always getting compliments, eg

"I can't believe you're 40 you bitch!",
"I love that look",
"Where did you learn to dress so hot!?" (usually followed by: "Will you take me shopping with you?"),
"Are you married?"
"Shells, You're hot! You know if it wasn't for <husband/boyfriend>, I could turn lesbian for you!",
etc. etc.

(I love that last one).

Those that knew me when married (ie neighbours) most no longer will give me the time of day. Mind you, that could be because of my ex-wife, or that they didn't like my ex-trans-partner [Melissa], that is one question I'll never have the answer to, but as I have 100's of friends now (since splitting with Melissa), the sort that will phone and say "what are you doing this evening, fancy coming to a show" or "I'll be in the valley in 30 minutes, fancy a glass of wine?" (or coffee depending on the time of day), I can only speculate to the reasons.

It's really a telling item about how you're being accepted.

Its about being true to yourself. When you are truthful to others, they know you are being truthful about yourself. Happiness reinforces that view. People that are true to themselves and happy give off an aurora, a glow, and people are attracted to that.

Never seems to happen among those who see me as "a guy in a dress," no matter how cute my shoes or how lovely my jewelry, and without such standard woman-to-woman communication, maybe we're really being "tolerated" rather than being accepted among women as "one of us."

Your thoughts?

You just had them

Last bit.. I'm never a guy in a dress, though I looked like one some time ago. I know what you are saying, and my ex would have you believe that my neighbours only ever saw me as a guy in a dress and that's why they didn't even tolerate me. There are people that know me from school, there are people I work with, there are friends I have only met since Melissa became an Ex all of which know I'm transsexual, some of which knew me when I presented as a guy... None tolerate, some will always see me as a guy, but all love me for who I am..!

[Sally2005]

There is something to it. If the other person has accepted you well (as a friend would), then I find they talk to you in a more comforting way. I find it really hard to get used to because usually as a male I feel like I'm getting kicked around or fighting to prove something. There is a middle ground though...many times as a male, I've had women talk to me as if I was one of her girl friends... can't be because of the way I look... I think its because I usually don't cut in to a conversation, but I wait and listen for a while which usually requires me to become part of the girly conversation before changing the topic.

[donnatracey]

[QUOTE=Michelle_Sullivan;1882992]I'm never a guy in a dress..... Though sometimes I get asked "Are you a girl or a guy?" Question is, would you (anyone reading this) consider that a compliment or an insult...?

My take is it's a compliment as the person has either spotted my adams apple, my prominent brow or heard my voice all croaky (particularly after smoke machines in night clubs have had their turn on my voice.) ie something gave away the fact I wasn't born to a female body, but otherwise they would never have guessed.

My ex's take is its an insult, but that was her, and all about her...



I'd have to agree with your ex on this one. I would never take that as a compliment.......

[Satrana]

Interesting question.

I think there is a dividing line in people's heads on what they can accept and what they feel is too weird. The more that your appearance and behavior leans towards conformity, the more likely they are to accept your gender presentation because the alarm bells have not been triggered.

It is not just about conformity though. When you are interacting with someone, they are trying to judge how genuine you are. If you act normally and are serious, you send a strong message that you do not expect special treatment. It eases their anxiety level since they know they should use the normal pattern of interaction - in this case the pattern used for women.

On the other hand if your appearance or behavior does not come across as genuine - ie you appear to be only acting out a parody of a woman like a drag act then the alarm bells are set off and they do not know how to react to you and will more likely be defensive and treat you using male interaction patterns.

I myself do not try to emulate or pass as a woman. I speak with my male voice and use my male name. But my appearance and demeanor are sensible and I have never had a negative experience when interacting with people.

And women compliment each other all the time - it is part of the automated girl talk routine. If you fall on the right side of the divide in their heads then you are going to get the compliments irregardless of how well or how poorly you pass.

This does not mean women are accepting you as "one of us". Almost all lay people believe CDs are gays so what they believe they are interacting with is an effeminate gay, which as Rachel has pointed out means we bypass the male threat barrier that women use when dealing with "real" men.

[Barbara918]

Barbara, I never go out as anything but a "guy in a dress" (admittedly, a very beautiful dress, but I guess that's immaterial ). I don't change my voice or act in any way that is not me. All of those times, I find that I'm treated just fine. I still get compliments on my shoes, my hair, my figure, my attitude (but never my face. Go figure).

Ditto.

[JiveTurkeyOnRye]

I don't get it, I'm positive I posted a response to this thread but I guess the internet ate it.

But I definitely have gotten compliments from GGs on my skirts when I have gone out as a guy in a skirt mode. Just last weekend I went to a street fair here in Columbus and a lady went out of her way to tell me that she liked my skirt.

One thing I found a bit funny is that when I used to go out wearing only kilts, people would often say "nice skirt" and not in a mocking way but in an attempt to be friendly and just using the term. Some kilt guys get really huffy when someone calls their kilt a skirt, I never did because.. it is one! But, then when I switched from kilts to other skirts, people seemed to want to start calling what I was wearing a kilt, even when one was solid, black, and had no pleats. I'd hear "New kilt?" from people who had seen my old one.

[msginaadoll]

Ive got a few complimentswhen Im out from ladies. I def know that they recognized I was male. They have ranged from those are nice jeans, to I love your boots, to one your looking pretty today. I always make sure to thank them, and make sure they know I appreciate their positive words.

[marny]

Karen. Get back in the game. You are hot! Marny

[Lorileah]

so what it comes down to is that you really pass and they believe you are a female out on the town in your dress and wig? Face it you are a man in a dress, you don't get away with it. They don't compliment you when you are not fully dressed? Maybe because you come off different when you are not fully dressed. Its your demeanor. You stay a man? It does not make sense that you magically become a woman and then get compliments. Your shoes are still cute, your ring is still beautiful. I get compliments about that no matter if I go all out or not. Maybe I just go to the right places? Even when I go out as "me" the male, I get compliments about my shoes or shirt. That is probably because I don't go out in T-shirt and ratty jeans. I like to look sharp no matter what I am doing in a social setting. You get back what you present.