The Tomgirl Profile: Commonalities among gender-variant or gender non-conforming boys

[Leo Lane]

This is from the Accepting Dad blog site. As an FtM, I'd be very interested to hear what MtFs think of it, and if they feel they 'fit the profile' when they were younger.

"As supportive parents find each other through mailing lists on the internet (see the CNMC and Transkidsfamily) we share stories about our kids, and the problems they face— and the problems we face being their parents. Over the years a profile builds up, qualities that many of these boys seem to share.

We are astonished to find the same patterns, the same specific behaviors, popping up over and over again. List members collect their own lists of anecodotes.

Some of us have attended gender conferences and listened to presentations by clinicians and pyschiatrists working with these children. I’ve been lucky enough to have spent time talking with Edgardo J. Menvielle, MD, Catherine Tuerk, Greg K. Lehne, Ph.D. and Kim Pearson, all of whom I consider experts on gender non-conforming children. (Kim is an activist and mom, not a caregiver, but she has helped so many families navigate these waters.)

There are very few experts in this area, and very little research.

Some of the kids on our lists are trans; some are tomgirls; some are in flux; some are supressing these qualities and trying to fit in. The following list is not intended to subsitute for any professional opinion on the matter. My list is focused on gender variant boys who frequently do not end up identifying as transgender, though transgender children may share many of these qualities.

I have been told, and forgive the flakiness of the term, that Trans kids and GV boys give off a subtlety different vibe. Professionals working with them often have opinions as to who is really transgender (bound for SRS or a lifetime presenting as female) and who isn’t. But parents—not professionals—are the deciders when it comes to how to raise their children. These professional opinions may never even be voiced, as they work to create the most supportive environment possible, given a family’s, or a community’s…limitations.

It’s important to note here, that even modest accommodations made for these children often have a huge impact on their later mental health and self-esteem.

Without further ado, here’s my list:

Barbies not Babies: tomgirls (I’ll use that term for GV children throughout this list) are more fascinated by dressing up barbies than nurturing babies.

Hyper feminine: the most extreme manifestations of femininity are embraced; sparkles; high-heels; make-up; rainbows; glitter; fashion, hair, nails, Jewelry.

The Princess: A fierce relationship with the barbie princess is almost universal.

The Drama Queen: volatility; extremes of emotion; blinding despair, giddy elation. All kids are like this; tomgirls often moreso. Favorite quote from despairing tomgirl: “I wish the human race had never existed!”

Character identification: Identifies exclusively with female characters, even when the story in question has almost no role for female characters. (My son was Bo Peep in Toy Story.)

Averse to Rough & Tumble Play / Team sports: Almost forgot about this one. Obviously, some gender normative kids are like this as well.

Towel Hair: Many pretend to have long hair, using towels as props. It doesn’t matter if the child is, say, african american. They all want long flowing blonde hair.

Pink: You can have any color you like, as long as it is pink. In my case, pink and white has given way to pink and black as my son hit age 10. Fortunately, Hello Kitty stuff comes in both flavors.

Expresses desire to be a Girl: My son was sad he wasn’t born a girl when he was younger. He blamed his mother. Some kids blame God. He cried himself to sleep when he was 3 or 4 a few times over it…that experience changed us.

Here are some anecdotes from our email lists; it’s possible the self-selected nature of our groups have yielded a certain kind of GV boy. Take these with a grain of salt.

Sociability: This may only manifest in situations that allow it, but far from being guarded introverts, many Tomgirls are ‘popular’ in early years, engaging a wide variety of both male and female friends; in places where boys are more rigorously gendered, these friendships may be exclusively feminine.

Unwillingness or inability to suppress / ‘fit in’: this might just be a sign of time and place, but many of these younger kids seem reluctant to hide, even when presenting has consequences.

Creativity: All kids are creative. Tomgirls seem to be very creative; the content, the subject matter, of course, may be limited to hyper-feminine content. My son drew, sculpted, and assembled from recycled materials, approximately 3-400 iconic female figures from the ages of 3-6.

Unhappy with boy toys: Almost every parent of a tomgirl has a story of an unpleasant holiday moment, when the child unwraps some really butch toy, and bursts into tears—or rage. My child went on an ironically Hulk–like rampage when given a huge green rubber Incredible Hulk.

I welcome comments and additions to this list by Tomgirls, supportive families, professionals, and transgendered individuals. If I’m off-base on any of this, let me know."

[morgan pure]

Leo,

You give us an awful lot to comment on. I realized I was a girl very early-but in 1953. I learned immediately not to show it. My parents would have freaked-I knew it at 6. When they did find out when I was 13, they got me books on sex and I was more careful.

In 2009 my wife had a ts kid in her kindergarten class. Her parents are totally cool with it. I have a kid in sixth grade this year who calls himself Judy. On Hallowe'en 6 boys dressed as girls out of less than 30 in the junior high. That's a larger percentage than would be expected to even be gay (around 10%).

If your baby turns out to be ts and not just gay, get him/her hormones early! She can avoid big shoulders, biceps and get a little more hip. And no hair! I know girls who started in their teens and they pass with children-the ultimate authority.

Morgan

Oh-and I played with dolls whenever I could.

[Leo Lane]

I realized I was a girl very early-but in 1953. I learned immediately not to show it. My parents would have freaked-I knew it at 6.

That must have been tough. I'm glad I was born later.

In 2009 my wife had a ts kid in her kindergarten class. Her parents are totally cool with it. I have a kid in sixth grade this year who calls himself Judy. On Hallowe'en 6 boys dressed as girls out of less than 30 in the junior high. That's a larger percentage than would be expected to even be gay (around 10%).

Progress does happen!

Oh-and I played with dolls whenever I could.

Not surprising! The reason this blog post interested me was that it sounds a lot like Ludo in Ma Vie en Rose -- the fascination with a Barbie-princess TV character with long blonde hair, the love of pink, the desire to be a girl, the dislike of rough-and-tumble games and team sports, the attraction to ultra-feminine stuff, the unwillingness to hide -- Ludo becomes more reticent when her parents freak out, but at first, she shows up at a party in a princess dress, looking great! I guess the director and screenwriter did their homework.

[sandra-leigh]

I have been told, and forgive the flakiness of the term, that Trans kids and GV boys give off a subtlety different vibe. Professionals working with them often have opinions as to who is really transgender (bound for SRS or a lifetime presenting as female) and who isn’t.

There are numerous other possibilities for people who are "really transgender". "transgender" is an umbrella term that includes but is not constrained to transsexual. For example, "transgender" includes androgyny.

The Drama Queen: volatility; extremes of emotion; blinding despair, giddy elation. All kids are like this; tomgirls often moreso.

Not all kids are like that. I went through years of therapy as a youngster in order to learn to recognize (internally) and communicate emotions (other than frustration at being asked to make choices between equally bad possibilities -- which is a characteristic that practically defines the INTP Myers-Briggs personality type.) I was a Nice Kid ("but maybe a little too quiet".)

Unwillingness or inability to suppress / ‘fit in’: this might just be a sign of time and place, but many of these younger kids seem reluctant to hide, even when presenting has consequences.

I wasn't willing to pretend to be who or what I wasn't in order to fit in socially -- and that's had consequences all of my life. And I didn't suppress that I loved learning and was good at it... which was part of the reason I didn't fit in socially. This was starting in the mid 1960's.

If I’m off-base on any of this, let me know."

Well, I matched on one of the many points. Some fractional matches on some of the others. Not a very good diagnostic list, it seems.

But then it does seem to be my Destiny to be an Exception to many things

[Hope]

Yeah - that list sounds very familiar.

Though I would say that the list splits into two distinct portions for me - the things I did, and the things I suppressed, but still felt / wanted. Generally the things I did where the less obvious things. I HATED sports, particularly team sports. I played barbies with the girls whenever I could get away with it - but there was no way I could have gotten away with owning one myself. I still want to be the princess, but there is no way that I could have pulled off sparkles or glitter as a kid. I have always been miserable about not having been born a girl; when my mother once told me that her doctor told her I was going to be a girl, I just KNEW something had gone horribly horribly wrong and they had done something to me in the hospital. I was the class clown in grade school, but retreated later, knowing that to be too social risked certain exposure. I LOVED pink - but refused it, as to wear / have any pink around would be sure to risk exposure... the lady doth protest too much. I certainly did the towel-hair and the towel-skirt - but only when no one was looking.

Man, now that I think about it - childhood sucked.

The radio show "This American Life" did a show on transgendered children some months ago. You can check it out here if you are interested:
http://www.thisamericanlife.org/Radi...spx?sched=1283

[noeleena]

Hi...
Ill have to think more about this . as i have no memory from being born till about 5 .even then there s not much i can see of that part of my life . from about 6 on theres a few things yet even then i was told about what i did , what i did not know i was a andro . & knew i was different . at age 10 ... i was slow .
As i got older i was thinking both male & female . being wired both way s , born in 1947 . what would i say .....even if i knew nothing . till age 50 .
I had looked at the tom boy . detail . & in some ways i am i m not a girle girl .
The spectrum is very wide . for us . its definaty not black & white . i know that from my own experance as a andro .
Yes i live as a woman yet i am one .
For children to day . its more out in the open . in the 60 s all i knew was there are men in the armed forces . who are actors or drag queens . other than that ..... not a thing .
So different to day . & theres so much help .
Thanks for putting that up . is there a net or www thing e that we can look at . a forum may be .
Oh my colour is.. no way round this one .....Pink .....
...noeleena...

[Starling]

I remember a flap in my childhood about going to a toy store and wanting a tea set, but most of the time I kept my girlish feelings to myself--without realizing that's what they were, but not wanting to cause more trouble. The first time I remember seriously dressing I was nine or ten. My parents had gone away for a few days, leaving me and my sisters with a grandmotherly babysitter. After everyone went to sleep, I put on one of my mom's sundresses and a pair of yellow thongs, and I painted my toenails. I didn't know why I was so drawn to do it, but it felt really soothing.

About this time my father took me to an endocrinologist for an examination and tests. I was a fat kid (still am), but things like secondary sex characteristics were also discussed. I'm sure I had unconsciously been giving off signs of girlishness, and probably had been careless about returning my mother's clothes. (Alas, I had only little sisters!) I remember feeling very strongly that I should have been a girl, and being strongly affected by a lurid tabloid story about the TS entertainer Coccinelle and her SRS. I even tape-recorded myself saying I wanted to be a girl, so I could listen to myself saying it, as if it were someone else.

Although I was an honor student, I often feigned illness so I could stay home from school. If my mother went out for some reason I would take the opportunity to dress. Once, I tried on her one-piece bathing suit. Soon, it no longer fit, as my mother was a petite woman. Her shoes had long before become too small, which was frustrating, as I could not imagine buying women's shoes.

Later I took home (i.e., stole) a brown paper bag I found in my high school auditorium that contained a pair of black flats and a gray skirt. The shoes fit perfectly, and with the skirt and a pair of my mother's stockings on I felt awfully nice. But I began to worry about being caught, so I purged my find.

My male friends tended to be smart, funny and disdainful of sports. I was strongly attracted to girls, but I remember my sexual feelings would involve identifying with them, rather than wanting to conquer them--which was the standard trope of the era. I would watch girls interact with other girls and wish I could be with them that way.

I repressed all this of course, faking masculinity pretty well, and merely dabbled in partial crossdressing through the years. In the last year or so, though, my submerged feelings have resurfaced with a vengeance, and now I need to dress as fully as possible, as often as possible. Because I love my wife and respect her rather strict limits, I'm pretty sure I'll never be able to live as a woman. I will always be one in my bones, however, and it can be a challenge not to dwell on regret for being born too soon.

Lallie

[Leo Lane]

sandra-leigh -- I'm an INTP too, so I hear where you're coming from. And I really like your goat.

The radio show "This American Life" did a show on transgendered children some months ago. You can check it out here if you are interested:
http://www.thisamericanlife.org/Radi...spx?sched=1283

That's great. Thank you.

I was strongly attracted to girls, but I remember my sexual feelings would involve identifying with them, rather than wanting to conquer them--which was the standard trope of the era. I would watch girls interact with other girls and wish I could be with them that way.

That's how I've always felt about guys!

Your stories about wearing your mothers' clothes are actually personally familiar to me -- I once babysat for a 10-year-old boy who liked doing just that. Of course I told him he looked great -- but to be careful with those expensive clothes! He used his cellphone to take photos of himself dressed up. Maybe, like you with your tape recorder, he wanted some kind of confirmation. Maybe he'll be a she soon -- or gay, or a drag queen -- who knows?

[sandra-leigh]

sandra-leigh -- I'm an INTP too, so I hear where you're coming from.

These days I test out pretty consistently as INTJ rather than INTP... but people change over time. I'm trying to change even now. I'm a mis-match for every M-B category... but I refuse to artificially conform to M-B too!


The bit about "really transgender" in the original article bugs me. The only other people in this city (about 660000 people) whom I've ever met who are willing to go out repeatedly as "a guy in a skirt" or "a guy in a dress" are the "tough drag" performers, and the Two Spirited (and I mean that in the original sense of the term: this city has a large urban population of Aboriginal people.) "What more do I have to do to prove myself??"

And for the record, pink is not my colour, except that I am partial to peach and champagne. Purple, "the new black", doesn't attract me and usually looks pretty sickly against my skin tones. My colours are earth and sky tones -- browns, sky blues, and the colours of growing things, or the colours of maple leaves as they change in the autumn. An "Earth-mother" perhaps.

[Starling]

...I once babysat for a 10-year-old boy...He used his cellphone to take photos of himself dressed up...

I'm glad you didn't try to scare the crap out of him.

Of course, when I was a pseudo-boy you had to get your photos developed, so that put the kibosh on that. The voice recording was the best I could do. I just now recall that I recorded it at 3.75 ips, so I could play it back at 7.5 ips and raise the pitch of my voice by an octave, creating the effect of an unconvincingly feminine chipmunk.

I remembered something else too, Leo. I always felt like a spy, an alert student of other people's lives who concealed his true identity for fear of the dire consequences of exposure. Anyone capable of reading my mind would have heard a fairly striking interior monologue.

Lallie

[Karen564]

I really cant say their much on that list that fits me like a glove, maybe just little pieces here & there..

Here's a small glimpse into my childhood, up to the age of 8 years old, it's far from everything, and I do remember so much more, but dont want to write a book on it here..
But maybe you should go grab a coffee 1st..LOL

I do have a very good & acurate memory & always did, but dont ask me what I had for dinner a week ago..or what day my brothers B-day is..LOL

But as a child, I felt different in more ways than just one, I was born with a special gift & had lots of Deja Vu to the point I could tell people exactly what they were going to say word for word in a conversation just before they said it & something only they knew what it was, which really freaked out my parents & others when I did it...
Just wish I could of seen what the winning lottery #'s were the next day..

Another oddity thing was my memory of some things that happened before I was born when my mom was pregnant for me, I saw it as I was looking through her eyes, I used to see it in my head like watching a movie, one was when the sewers & road was being installed in front of our house, I remembered the machinery there clear as day and also serving the crew some gasses of lemonade or water on a tray, I know it was very hot and in the summer, like maybe june or august, I remember seeing the sweat pouring down one guys face in an hard hat laying blocks in a sewer drain as I was looking down at him in the hole working..
This still freaks my mom out today, because I was born in November, and the street was completed before that..And she insist there's absolutely no way I could of possibly know some of the things I told her..but also said it was all true, and there's many other things too, but I gradually lost my gift over the years, and glad I did too, it used to freak me out too when it happened..like all too real...
Some of what I wrote may have nothing to do with transgender, but is a part of how it impacted my personality & character growing up..

I grew up in an upper middle class family in a typical suburban neighbor hood during the 60's..

I've known there was something very wrong with me from the time I was 4-1/2 in early 1965, it's when I entered Kindergarten, never went to preschool, and was fine before going to school, but maybe that was because I was kept isolated from other kids my age, my brother & sister were 11 & 12 years older, so by the time I came along, they were already teenagers & doing their own thing..

As far as I'm aware of, I never showed signs of being flamboyant, just a regular little boy that liked to climb things and play outdoors, and inside big cardboard boxes, and make tents from blankets so I could hide or be alone in my own little world..
Going to kidnagarden was a little traumatic for me, because it was so new & scared when my Mom dropped me off but so happy when she came to bring me home..
I never saw so many girls my age before, but immediately liked them from the start because I felt more comfortable & at ease with them, then there were the boy's, but I didn't seem to click with them at all, they seemed rough, mean & rather selfish to me, which I didn't like and they strongly discouraged me from playing with the girls because I was a boy, & boys dont play with girls or so I was tld by everyone, so then I found a huge wooden block set in the classroom, and built a large wall around me like a fort, the boys admired it & wanted to come in, but I wouldn't let them..LOL and did this as much as I could, then there was the art stuff, which I loved doing, it's also when I got much more attention because I was very creative & everyone seemed to admire that, so from that time on, I was to be known as the class artist & that title followed me right into HS..

I didn't talk much when I was young & my mother brought me to the doctor to find out what was wrong, so when the doctor asked me a question, my mother answered it, that's when the doctor realized I was fine & told my Mom he's not talking because your talking for him..

At ages 5 thru 7, I played with boy toys, got dirty & rode my bike like any boy did, then a new family moved in next door, 2 girls & a baby boy, the oldest girl Gina (very girly), was a year younger than me, & Lori (more of a tomboy) was 2 years younger, that's when I was introduced to girl toys, and we played with barbies, Lori liked my trucks, they thought nothing of it, nor did I, then we would play house & do role playing, like doctor/patient, played hop-scotch, jump rope, etc.. we really had so much fun together..

It's also when I discovered cross dressing, but kept that secret..
I went to church every Sunday & learned about God, and that's when I started praying to God before bed, my wish was for him (dont know why I thought God was a him) to turn me into a girl as I slept so by the time I awoke, I'd be a normal girl with a family that never knew I was ever a boy & treat me like I was always a girl from day one, that was my wish every nite, but I never told my parents out of fear what they would do to me..

It's also during these years that I started crying myself to sleep every night when God had not granted my wish, I still prayed and made all sorts of different promises to him every night, but told him I could only do so if he would only grant me this one wish, with tears flowing, I just couldn't believe he could be so cruel to me, and asked him why?, why me, why did you make me like this?, (I'm still crying)..
By age 7, I had got caught wearing my Moms clothes, she was extremely mad, but she avoided talking about it like it never happened..

I still showed no signs of outwardly feminine behaviour in the way I talked or acted though, because I knew I had to keep this a deeply hidden secret, only God & myself knew about it, since I thought I was the only person on the planet that had this freak thing happen to me (or so I thought) so I was terrified by what my parents would do to me, never mind what the outside world would do to me if they knew how I really felt inside..

A couple bad things happened to me when I was 6 & 7, one was in 1967 as I was riding my bike, a big black very old car, a 4 door sedan from the late 40's or early 50's was following me very slowly.
I got scared & turned down my street, but was looking behind me as I was still turning, he was following me closely & that's when I hit the curb & thrown off the bike into the street, the cars front tire ran over my upper arm just missing my head as the wheel stopped almost pinning my arm to the ground.
I heard him get out & then I got up & ran home crying & hid in the house, he followed me home & knocked on the door to apologized to my Mom to what happened, then I went to the hospital to have my arm scrubbed with Iodine & wire brush(Ouch!)

The 2nd thing in the summer of 1968 was ridding my bike alone again, kinda far from my house, at the end of this one street, there was a path that lead into a field, it had some burned out cars in it, I think it was a spot were some stolen cars ended up, I rode along a path near the woods & steep hill below with more cars abandoned down the hill, suddenly it appeares I disturbed some gang of Charles Manson like type of characters, they were acting all weird around a bon fire, and I tried to get away, but got grabbed off my bike, and was thinking about how no one knows where I am!!!

The craziest one of all said he wanted to kill me, light my pretty blond hair on fire & throw me down the hill, & no one will ever know, needless to say I was crying & scared out of my mind, I do believe he really meant what he said & had a crazy look in his eye, he then grabbed a can of gasoline because he wanted to light me up 1st, & I saw the pistol tucked behind his belt, and that's when a bigger guy stepped in, and saved me, he had long hair but could see he wanted no part in seeing a kid being tortured & murdered, the crazy one didn't like that but finally did back down, then I was told he'll let me go as long as I promise not to ever say anything, if I did, he said they would find me & kill later....I said I wouldn't many times, then later let me go, and so I never said a word about it..

So to sum it up,
I was quiet, and never told my parents I felt like or wanted to be a girl, I was not a sissy nor queer-like or pranced around like a girl.
I did cry myself to sleep for years, not days..
I had insomnia, & hated to go to bed, so it took me a long time to fall asleep, but once I did, I went into a deep sleep & then hated to get up..
Sometimes too deep of a sleep, I'd dream of going to the bathroom only to find out I was still in bed after feeling wet..(opps)

Wasn't into sports, but liked being artistic & creative, drawing, painting, & making decorations out of anything I could get my hands onto..
Loved music & watching talented people perform

I was a perfectionist & wouldn't do anything unless I could do it better than others, and liked to take things apart to see how they worked, but didn't always put them back together (Sorry Mom & Dad about that movie projector,LOL)
I didn't normally play with dolls by myself, only because I didn't have any..
Wasn't good at math, writing or spelling, but liked science or anything technical..
I loved to care for birds or anything injured & to bring them back to health, but that didn't always work..and gave them a proper burial.

I had friends but didn't strive for attention from them or my parents, never a little brat, I just did my own thing, but did spend time alone a lot when I could, always had so many things on my mind & daydreaming about what I wanted to do, which was everything..

Also think I grew up faster than normal mentally/emotionally, even faster than the girls my own age and way beyond any boy I knew & couldn't wait to be a grown up, so being TS put an awful lot on my plate and added so much stress..

Many kids thought I was tough & cool for my age & fun to be around..but made sure that never went to my head.. and also why more kids liked me.

I was always a sort of daredevil, nothing really scared me after those two bad things happened to me I described earlier..

So, I really dont think any professional back then or even today could pick me out of a crowd and say I had GID, because I think like many others, we hid it so well, I had to learn how to adapt to my surroundings & observed everyone around me so I could blend in without being pegged with some abnormal behaviour, the ones that didn't know how to or wish to blend in got picked on, and I knew I didn't want to be picked on for being girly, so I was forced to act as a boy..
It was more of a self imposed prison but didn't know how to break out of it..it truly was my own little private hell, I wish I was too stupid to know how to hide it & just acted out how I really felt, instead of thinking I was so clever outsmarting everyone & hiding it for so long..which in the end was the most stupid thing to do in reality, since it kept me from getting the help I needed..

Dont know if this is any help for you, but if it does, then great, I hope it can help someone young dealing with this, that would please me to no end..

[Leo Lane]

The bit about "really transgender" in the original article bugs me.

I think what he means is just that his son doesn't want to change his sex; but you're right that the term could have been used more carefully.

I'm glad you didn't try to scare the crap out of him.

Why would I? I'm FtM, after all, so I know how he feels in reverse, as it were...

Karen564 -- Thank you very much for your story. You've had some rough things to go through. I admire your frankness in explaining all this to us.

...so then I found a huge wooden block set in the classroom, and built a large wall around me like a fort, the boys admired it & wanted to come in, but I wouldn't let them..LOL and did this as much as I could...

That's great!

[Starling]

...Why would I? I'm FtM, after all, so I know how he feels in reverse, as it were...

I'm still glad you didn't try to scare the crap out of him. We can do strange things out of fear or insecurity.

Lallie

[Byanca]

I have been told, and forgive the flakiness of the term, that Trans kids and GV boys give off a subtlety different vibe.

I've always been told I am special and different. Like around the dinner table when I grew up. This only happend to be, not my 3 brothers. Lots of other have said so as well. Sometimes weird. Sometime girly, sometimes crazy.

Barbies not Babies: tomgirls (I’ll use that term for GV children throughout this list) are more fascinated by dressing up barbies than nurturing babies.

Did not have dolls. My grandparents had 2 pretty ones. And often undressed an dressed them. No playing.

The Princess: A fierce relationship with the barbie princess is almost universal.

Yes

The Drama Queen: volatility; extremes of emotion; blinding despair, giddy elation. All kids are like this; tomgirls often moreso. Favorite quote from despairing tomgirl: “I wish the human race had never existed!”

I was first thinking oh no. But the last line...ehhmm...i guess.

Character identification: Identifies exclusively with female characters, even when the story in question has almost no role for female characters. (My son was Bo Peep in Toy Story.)

Yes, but just certain types of female characters.

Averse to Rough & Tumble Play / Team sports: Almost forgot about this one. Obviously, some gender normative kids are like this as well.

I guess. Although I think play like volley ball in school was okay. In general I had no issues with these lessons.

Towel Hair: Many pretend to have long hair, using towels as props. It doesn’t matter if the child is, say, african american. They all want long flowing blonde hair.

I cried every time they cut my hair. And was told over and over again that I did not want to look like a girl. etc. At 15 I just said stop, and have had longer hair since. And cut it my self since then.

Pink: You can have any color you like, as long as it is pink. In my case, pink and white has given way to pink and black as my son hit age 10. Fortunately, Hello Kitty stuff comes in both flavors.

For me it is violet.

Expresses desire to be a Girl: My son was sad he wasn’t born a girl when he was younger. He blamed his mother. Some kids blame God. He cried himself to sleep when he was 3 or 4 a few times over it…that experience changed us.

No, I have never expressed anything to anyone.

Sociability: This may only manifest in situations that allow it, but far from being guarded introverts, many Tomgirls are ‘popular’ in early years, engaging a wide variety of both male and female friends; in places where boys are more rigorously gendered, these friendships may be exclusively feminine.

No, never really had any friends. Except my brother. All others are just on the surface.

Unwillingness or inability to suppress / ‘fit in’: this might just be a sign of time and place, but many of these younger kids seem reluctant to hide, even when presenting has consequences.

I guess.

Creativity: All kids are creative. Tomgirls seem to be very creative; the content, the subject matter, of course, may be limited to hyper-feminine content. My son drew, sculpted, and assembled from recycled materials, approximately 3-400 iconic female figures from the ages of 3-6.

I think so, not very, but have been told so.

Unhappy with boy toys: Almost every parent of a tomgirl has a story of an unpleasant holiday moment, when the child unwraps some really butch toy, and bursts into tears—or rage. My child went on an ironically Hulk–like rampage when given a huge green rubber Incredible Hulk.

I used to tell when people asked me what I wanted that they did not have to give me a gift. I was going to be unhappy, so better if they just let it be.

[Leo Lane]

I used to tell when people asked me what I wanted that they did not have to give me a gift. I was going to be unhappy, so better if they just let it be.

Poor you.

Thanks for your detailed answer. These responses are very illuminating.

[AlisonRenee]

my list:

1. About age 4, found older sister's swimsuit and put it on - instantly, and I mean instantly hooked. The feeling bordered on euphoria and it's vivid to this day. Later branched into more of her clothes, as well as mom's.

2. Frequent fantasies from that point for at least a couple of years after that I could "change into a girl", or would grow up to be a girl. I remember telling Mom that I wanted to be a girl.

3. Most of my earliest playmates were girls rather than boys, and I very much enjoyed their games. We often played dressup games, and getting out my mom's heels was a big hit for everyone - me included.

4. Early and lifelong dislike of team or physical sports. I was never good at any of it. Threw like a girl, ran like a girl, felt like a total misfit and pretty much was as far as sports ever went.

5. Emotional reactions/responses more typically feminine - call me a sissy, it was true. That changed some when puberty and testosterone kicked in, but before that, I was awfully girly.

6. I did then, and do now, totally SUCK at math and to some degree, science. Language, spelling - piece of cake.

7. Into my early teens I still dabbled in sis's clothes. That went by the wayside as I got a little older - I think, in retrospect, that I was trying very hard to fit into the male role.

By young adulthood I managed to successfully suppress the feelings, for the most part - with the occasional step into my wife's clothes, but that was infrequent.

Only in middle age did it all come rushing back with a vengeance!