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Thread: Becoming a girl to become a boy

  1. #1
    Girlygirl Tomboy Wannabee Toni_Lynn's Avatar
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    Becoming a girl to become a boy

    Whenever I see threads about why we crossdress or why we started crossdressing etc, my mind goes into a deeply psychological space.

    As a kid, I was not pushed into any 'boy' things. In fact, at school, I was the one called on last when making up teams in phys ed. At sporty type things, I was not at all good. And as such I received no encouragement to try. Later as I grew older, at around 11, 12 and 13 my sister got invoked in being a majorette/ baton twirler in a group that marched in parades. That meant that there were practices and parades to go to almost every night during the summer. She was very good at what she did.

    Now I was very good too -- but not at physical stuff. I was a bit of a brain. I used to read the encyclopedia cover to cover and was constantly listening to my shortwave radio. I used to sit, alone at home, and think -- a lot.

    I was always being told at home that I was fat, a loner, and lazy. At school, the boys called me fag, and weirdo. While my sister was getting pretty things and trendy things to wear and was being told how pretty she was, I was being shuffled of the dull ugliness of the boys 'husky' department. The most disturbing thing to my little mind was when my mum bought her blue jeans from the boys department, cause you really couldn't get girls jeans then, yet I couldn't get a dress. It seemed like, oh just toss a pair of grey fat boys pants at him-- then turning to my sister, yes soon you'll be getting your first bra, won't that be special!

    About this time, our society changed. Suddenly girls were being encouraged to play baseball and run and climb trees and do all the thngs that boys did. And if a girl wasn't good at baseball or whatever, she was encouraged to excel, to try -- girls can do anything boys can do -- and that included boy stuff. Yes -- and it was at that time, that my sister got to try out for softball -- but my endeavours, like debating and public speaking were always accompanied by, ho-hum yeah right -- did you see her hit that ball. I envious because, here I was, a boy, and I felt like I couldn't do anything -- certainly not girls stuff -- and not boys stuff either.

    Years later, these days, as I go through the continuous process of self discovery, I have come to a point where it seems that I began to crossdress fully at age 13 to become a girl, so that I could be a boy. As a girl, I could be cute, or if I was at tomboy, I'd be cuter still. As a girl, I'd be encouraged and told that I could hit the ball like the boys, because I was a girl. As I've said in other threads, I believe that this is why I have no issues with wearing menswear inspired women's clothes, or boyleg/ mens-style panties. As a teen I caught hell if I wore men's no-fly bikini briefs -- cause they were "too girly". But as a girl, it would be perfectly acceptable for me to wear panties that looked like men's undies. Maybe that's why I have my 'thing' about girls in boy's undies, or tomboys dressed as guys. It says hey -- I, to, could be a girl, but look like a boy, and because I was girl I'd be nurtured, but I'd be comforting the boy part of me, too. phew - deep stuff.

    BTW - -I still, however stand by my feeling that it is a myth that women can wear guys clothes and get away with it while we get grief for CDing, for while I do agree that the boundary is softer, it has to be noted that when wearing guy's stuff, they aren't attempting to appear as guys.

    I don't know where I am going with this, except to say this is the only way I can reconcile all this in my mind. And maybe its why I sometime, while very happy and content with my crossdressing, don't feel like I belong here, because I don't feel like I'm crossdressing when I'm dressed as either a girl or, as recent thread put it, a guy. It an old pattern imprinted in my brain that won't let go, that heals the hurts. You know what -- while the sad bits that made it come to be are things that I'm not happy about, I have been given a gift, my CDing, that makes it alright, because I can do anything boys can do, because I found the girl within. I have closed the circle.

    Most of this is rhetorical, but I welcome thoughts and comments.

    Huggles

    Toni-Lynn
    Last edited by Toni_Lynn; 11-15-2009 at 05:18 PM.
    --I'm TN (transnationalist) - a Canadian born in an American's body! I stand on guard for thee!

  2. #2
    Silver Member victoriamwilliams1's Avatar
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    You have had a very interesting childhood. You made several great points about women being allowed to basically wear anything they want with out any comments.

  3. #3
    Adventuress Kate Simmons's Avatar
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    I know exactly what you are talking about Toni. I shuffled along as a young boy and then a young man but secretly was always a tomboy or a girl who was relatively physically active but mostly as a lone wolf, so I made my own rules as I went along. My heroines were Wonder Woman, The Bionic Woman, Emma Peel, April Dancer.... Well, you get the picture-- all knock out gorgeous women who could kick their share of bad guy butt. Could I do any less? I used the CDing as a vehicle to get in touch with all of my feelings, make them my own and integrate them. I own these feelings and no one can ever take them from me and they are mine in either mode. Has this made me a better man and a better person overall? You betcha!

  4. #4
    Member Ralph's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toni_Lynn View Post
    BTW - -I still, however stand by my feeling that it is a myth that women can wear guys clothes and get away with it while we get grief for CDing, for while I do agree that the boundary is softer, it has to be noted that when wearing guy's stuff, they aren't attempting to appear as guys.
    Well, I'm going to have to disagree with you on that one. Never mind attempting to appear as one or the other, a guy wearing a dress (but making no attempt to otherwise pass - didn't shave, doesn't wear a wig or breast forms, etc.) catches a lot more grief than a woman wearing men's cut jeans and a men's shirt.

  5. #5
    Aspiring Member Bobbi Lynn's Avatar
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    I have to agree.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ralph View Post
    Well, I'm going to have to disagree with you on that one. Never mind attempting to appear as one or the other, a guy wearing a dress (but making no attempt to otherwise pass - didn't shave, doesn't wear a wig or breast forms, etc.) catches a lot more grief than a woman wearing men's cut jeans and a men's shirt.
    42

  6. #6
    Gold Member sherri52's Avatar
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    I could hit the ball when I was a kid. Further than anyone, and was always the first picked unless I was doing the picking. If I got there late both teams fought over me. I could play the sport whatever it was and I could put on a dress and look pretty. Today I'm not sure I could run the bases fast enough and I don't look pretty. I make up for that by feeling good about myself.

  7. #7
    Senior Age Member sissystephanie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ralph View Post
    Well, I'm going to have to disagree with you on that one. Never mind attempting to appear as one or the other, a guy wearing a dress (but making no attempt to otherwise pass - didn't shave, doesn't wear a wig or breast forms, etc.) catches a lot more grief than a woman wearing men's cut jeans and a men's shirt.
    Ralph, I am going to have to disagree, at least mildly, with you!

    Since my dear wife,who always did my makeup and fixed my wig, passed away in 2005, I go out all the time dressed but not trying to pass. No wig, no forms, and no makeup. but wearing a dress or a nice skirt and top over a bra and panties. BTW, I have natural 40 B's so don't need forms! I have never, in the last four years, gotten any grief going out that way. I have received compliments on my outfits, and lots of smiles from GG's and sometimes from men. Since I am partially bald and wear what hair I have cut 1/4" long I definitely do not look at all like a woman.

    Having said that, I will add that I think the reason I don't get any "grief" is simply because of my attitude! I walk around wearing a dress or skirt as though I belong in those clothes. Because I do belong in them!! They are mine, and that is what I like to wear! I don't dress to please other people, I dress to please ME!! I don't give a D*** what other people think about my clothing selections!
    Stephanie

    Lady on the outside, but man underneath!

  8. #8
    Complex Lolita...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toni Lynn
    Years later, these days, as I go through the continuous process of self discovery, I have come to a point where it seems that I began to crossdress fully at age 13 to become a girl, so that I could be a boy. As a girl, I could be cute, or if I was at tomboy, I'd be cuter still. As a girl, I'd be encouraged and told that I could hit the ball like the boys, because I was a girl. phew - deep stuff.
    [SIZE="2"]Phew, indeed – complicated stuff. All this grew out of non-acceptance? I would place the blame at the feet of your peers, parents, or, perhaps, your own submerged self-image, if indeed “blame” is required in this personal landscape of confusion. Who cares if you can hit a ball properly or not? It means nothing in the great scheme of things, believe me. Oh, you get satisfaction out of doing something you’ve seen others do well, especially if you are cheered or admired for it, but there are many other things one can do for self-esteem. How about looking in the mirror and being happy with whom you are, no matter how you happen to be dressed? I would start there, and ignore what others expect of you – brazenly defy expectations and forge your own identity. People say things like, “You can be anything you want to be,” but they don’t really mean it, do they? They really mean you can be anything others expect you to be -- meaning, be acceptable to those in society who will help you to be like everyone else. As a crossdresser, you’ve already crossed that threshold into the lonely desert of self-determination, so recognize this precious gift you have – it’s all about comforting the “boy” in you, after all. You can certainly be a girl and be a boy at the same time – I know, because it is my (and our) chosen “profession of being” BTW, never join a group -- be true to yourself always…[/SIZE]

    I still, however stand by my feeling that it is a myth that women can wear guys clothes and get away with it while we get grief for CDing...
    [SIZE="2"]Yes, it’s not crossdressing, at least in the example you mentioned. A woman “getting away” with wearing men’s clothes is an antiquated idea that has been consigned to the (crossdressing) history books. By today’s standards, men in the past used to look like women, albeit with facial hair to “display” their masculinity and put everyone at ease. Somewhere along the way, men were consigned to a limbo existence of drabness, probably based on one person’s idea of “right.” Luckily, at least in private, one can correct this chromatic imbalance and seek happiness through tactile means – by that I mean dress in the clothing of the other gender, of course. Believe it or not, you can still do that and be a boy, too… [/SIZE]

    And maybe its why I sometime, while very happy and content with my crossdressing, don't feel like I belong here, because I don't feel like I'm crossdressing when I'm dressed as either a girl or, as recent thread put it, a guy.
    [SIZE="2"]Oh, you certainly belong here – I hadn’t come across your “take” on things before now, but this place is home to all sorts of fascinating flora and fauna, so make yourself at home...[/SIZE]

  9. #9
    Not a New Member Zoiq's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toni_Lynn View Post

    BTW - -I still, however stand by my feeling that it is a myth that women can wear guys clothes and get away with it while we get grief for CDing, for while I do agree that the boundary is softer, it has to be noted that when wearing guy's stuff, they aren't attempting to appear as guys.

    I'd just like to comment here that, I'm a known crossdresser where I work by ' everyone '.

    The difference with me is that while I wear a ' Ladies Uniform ', I am not attempting to appear female, a girly-man certainly, but not female.

    Now while that might sound a bit strange to say, but the variation of our uniform that I wear is the same as the most common variation of the uniform worn by the Ladies.

    That is, I wear it, ' with tailored Ladies pants ', rather than ' with a tailored skirt '.

    For this, in my job at least, it is possible for customers to overlook or politely ignore that I'm wearing the female uniform, even with the lack of body hair and the jewelery I wear with it etc.

    I wear pants by my own preference for the job just like most of the Ladies do and I would suggest for the same reasons.

    Needless to say, I do get the odd ' look and smile ' and even a ' comment ' here and there, by some of those who do actually notice, and I'm fine with that because I'm happy.

    Love, Phil.

    ( Girly-man or Male version of a Tom-Boy )

  10. #10
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    Deeply psychological isn't a strong enough description. Your thoughts are so deep and so insightful.
    I'd love to sit down with you some evening with a bottle of wine and just talk the night away. No, several evenings. One is not enough.
    What you wrote totally fascinates me.

  11. #11
    Aspiring Member shannonsilk's Avatar
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    I don't think that it si all that unusual in a situation where the parents favor a child (or children) of one sex over the other sex for the kids to be confused.
    I once heard of a pretty girl who wanted to be a boy because her parents really favored the boys in the family.
    Unfortunately, you had no one else to fall back on, such as friends or other relatives to help you through those difficult yrs.

    I also was amongst the last chosen for sports, as I was always the smallest boy inthe class. I did not have any sisters and the favoritism from my parents towards the three boys was not so obvious. I don't think I realized what a difficult time it was for me until much later. Like maybe yesterday.

    Good luck, Shannon

  12. #12
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    It is a total double-standard that girls can wear anything they want, it's just one of the unfortunate circumstances in life.

    Just like guys can sleep around and be applauded for such behaviour, while girls are reprimanded for it. It's just another one of the ridiculous rules in our society.

    If it's any consolation, I can remember my sister getting yelled at when we were younger because she wore some of my baggy guy-clothes out to a restaurant with all of us. They told her it wasn't ladylike and made her feel ridiculous.

  13. #13
    GG ReineD's Avatar
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    I'm sorry you were raised in a family where inner values and academic pursuits were not valued as much as sports and cuteness.

    I think you belong here. There is not one definitive cause or reason for CDing. You've discovered a way to have your needs met and this is all that matters.
    Reine

  14. #14
    Member jenniferishappy's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Toni_Lynn;1941289]
    BTW - -I still, however stand by my feeling that it is a myth that women can wear guys clothes and get away with it while we get grief for CDing, for while I do agree that the boundary is softer, it has to be noted that when wearing guy's stuff, they aren't attempting to appear as guys.

    I would like some clarification from Toni Lynn on this since contemplating this is new for me.
    Are you talking about a GG with the intention of showing and nurturing a strong masculine side she carries, or a girl who is just wearing some guy clothes for any given reason?
    I cant draw any parallel between a GG (not a lesbian) who likes to wear some articles of mens clothes (boxers, flannel shirt, etc), usually a SO's, and my CD'ing.

    Isnt it all intention based? My wife does not wear my clothes in public because she wants to express her masculine side. It is just done for one of many reasons, and she never wears all male clothing including underwear at the same time. She doesnt have her own male wardrobe and all that, trying to dress like a boy. She could care less if she ever wears male clothes one way or the other.
    Which brings up an interesting question. How common is it for non lesbians GG's to CD to express a masculine side they are well aware of?
    Happiness is a choice.

  15. #15
    Girlygirl Tomboy Wannabee Toni_Lynn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenniferishappy View Post
    I would like some clarification from Toni Lynn on this since contemplating this is new for me.
    Are you talking about a GG with the intention of showing and nurturing a strong masculine side she carries, or a girl who is just wearing some guy clothes for any given reason?
    -----
    Isnt it all intention based?
    Sorry that I snipped a bit of your post. But, yes -- it all surrounds intent. When a GG wears men's clothes it is generally not for the intent of appear to be male. That said, there are GGs who do take it to the level that we as MTF CDers do. as equivalents I offer, chest binding to flatten the breasts as being equal to tucking, and using a packer (a prosthetic penis -- NOT the same as a strap on) as the equivalent to us using breast forms. The bulgy bit are kinda flipped!

    So it is with that in mind that I say that while yes, the boundaries for a GG to cross-over to wearing men's clothes are softer because of intent, that GGs would still find as much resistance (and do!) as we as MTF CDers do, if they as FTM CDers took it along the paths that we do.

    Naturally the situation of FTM TSs is quite different still from the above. All I can say there (and I've alluded to it in other threads) is that I myself didn't fully understand it until I held an FTM friend in my arms as he cried because he was not accepted in his family or society. (That is why I also salute the courage of my FTM brothers in arms)

    Huggles

    Toni-Lynn
    --I'm TN (transnationalist) - a Canadian born in an American's body! I stand on guard for thee!

  16. #16
    Member AmberLynn's Avatar
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    I can see some simularties from Toni Lynn's up bringing and mine.

    I was also a Lone wolf,My father favored my sister over me she would recive all the attion and was daddy's little girl and me,well i wont go there it's to hard.

    I was bad at sport's,broke a girl's leg in 4th grade playing soft ball in gym "i let go of the bat mid swing" In 6th grade i joined the volley ball team i was actully good at that but was teased because it was a "girl's game" Even cloth's were bad as I was a heavy set kid that would get cloth's 9/10 times from the salvation army or the good will while my sister got her cloths and shoes at the mall. witch didnt bother me as i liked to be thrifty,still to this day i shop 9/10 times at the good will and salvation army,but as any kid know's that's a breeding ground for torment from your class mates.

    There is as many ways to start a life of crossdressing as there are to fix things around the house "i would know as a handy man lol" but it is interesting to read about one another's life's leading upto and into this special world
    Your life is a series of moment's,for each one passed is another one lost.

  17. #17
    Hot Geezer Girl docrobbysherry's Avatar
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    I'll bring a bottle, too, Shari!

    Quote Originally Posted by Shari View Post
    Deeply psychological isn't a strong enough description. Your thoughts are so deep and so insightful.
    I'd love to sit down with you some evening with a bottle of wine and just talk the night away. No, several evenings. One is not enough.
    What you wrote totally fascinates me.
    How wonderful that u r able to share such a unique part of yourself, Toni Lynn! And, express it so well, that someone like myself, who had NO "gender confusion" thots until late in life, can understand! WOW! Thank u!
    U can't keep doing the same things over and over and expect to enjoy life to the max. When u try new things, even if they r out of your comfort zone, u may experience new excitement and growth that u never expected.

    Challenge yourself and pursue your passions! When your life clock runs out, you'll have few or NO REGRETS!

  18. #18
    Banned Read only Satrana's Avatar
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    I am pretty sure that many CDs came into being as children not because of an initial yearning to be a girl but because we realized we did not fit in well generally with other boys. Disillusionment with the male role made us look towards the alternative and we found that fitted our personalities better. As you point out girls are encouraged and congratulated for exploring masculine roles so you saw how this completed the circuit.

    You were made to feel a failure as a genetic male trying to take on male roles but when you imagined yourself as a girl you could be nurtured and considered a success when you attempted the same things.

    Your story is a rather telling example of the lopsided nature of the gender debate where advancing women's rights and expectations are now exclusively championed whilst men's gender freedoms remain ignored and considered irrelevant.

  19. #19
    Girlygirl Tomboy Wannabee Toni_Lynn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Satrana View Post
    Your story is a rather telling example of the lopsided nature of the gender debate where advancing women's rights and expectations are now exclusively championed whilst men's gender freedoms remain ignored and considered irrelevant.
    This is actually a very valid point, that has to be addressed with an open mind.

    The first and most important thing that has to be acknowledged is that historically women and girls did not have the opportunities that men and boys had. Girls did not receive encouragement to achieve high goals in academics or sports or careers. Then things changed and suddenly we have girls trying out for boy's football teams, and events like 'Take Your Daughters to Work Day'. These are good things to be sure. Girls were encouraged to try out for sports and received (and still receive) a lot of support encouragement to excel, achieve, improve, and try. Girls are told 'anything boys can do, girls can do ... better'. Being told that you 'throw like a girl' has become a compliment.

    Thank goodness that "Take Your Daughters to Work Day" have been replaced with "Take Your Children to Work Day"

    So where does this leave an 11 year old boy in 1968/ 1969. In my case, it left me in a situation of trying to figure out how I could find the same support. Hence, the only way to be a boy was to be a girl.

    I realise that this is a very contentious issue.

    For one thing, one may accuse me of sour grapes. To that I say, oh no, not at all. I am very very happy that girls are given every chance and very bit of backing to achieve greatness and try all things. Girls deserve this. I see my feelings as being a rather unique way, if not mature way, of creating my life, a righting a wrong. Complex to be sure, but it seems to me that the human mind works wonders sometimes when it comes to making sense of things.

    Likewise, I am not blaming the changes to the world as far as equal treatment of women and girls goes for creating crossdressers (or for that matter homosexuals) as some shallow misguided people have done. Gay and TG type folk existed long before the emancipation of the rights of women and girls. I do however have to wonder if the incidence of boys crossdressing is higher amongst those who are my peers, that being tweens and teens from 1968 through 1975. Personally I don't think so. At least higher incidence of those who ended up feeling the way I do as regards the title of this thread might be the case though.

    The other thing is that I still feel that I would have been a crossdresser even if I had been nurtured in the same way my sister was because I was the more 'delicate' child. I venture to say that I would be a real tomboy CD-girl instead of just a wannabee.

    Obviously I have no empirical evidence of any of this apart from my own feelings. As they are mine, all I can say is that your mileage may vary, see dealer for more information.

    All in all, I am happy with way things worked out, for now I am complete in a spiritual sense. I accept my girl side and my boy side, and they are a lot of fun together.

    Oh -- and can it be any wonder that since I didn't find any support at home, I turned to wearing a bra, cause if you can't count on a good bra for support, what can you count on!
    Huggles

    Toni-Lynn
    --I'm TN (transnationalist) - a Canadian born in an American's body! I stand on guard for thee!

  20. #20
    Just trying be who I am. Byllie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toni_Lynn View Post
    BTW - -I still, however stand by my feeling that it is a myth that women can wear guys clothes and get away with it while we get grief for CDing, for while I do agree that the boundary is softer, it has to be noted that when wearing guy's stuff, they aren't attempting to appear as guys.
    Toni-Lynn
    As for me, I look forward to the day when I can wear *femme* clothing and not be seen as a girl, just a person.
    Life comes in all colors ... so please be kind to all you meet.

  21. #21
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    fascinating view of the cd life

    I too must admit to being fascinated by your views on the origins of your cross dressing. I couldn't help but think of the butterfly cycle analogy and that perhaps you will indeed emerge yet again as the boy/male/adult you want to be--successful and respected as a human being. There is clearly a lack of respect and battered dignity in your story. Self preservation is a strong motivator and it reminds me of the stories of captives taking on the attitudes of the captors just to survive--Patty Hearst comes to mind, but there are many tales. She has emerged into a new life--one not surrounded by the riches of family--but one which has greater meaning and more in common with "everyman".
    You have captured the clothing issue with great style--"male inspired boyleg panties" gets about as big a smile as I can manage.
    While you have managed to come to terms with the girl/boy issue ( e.g. success/failure from family and society), dressing still says that the girls have won out. The journey is not complete. From the caccoon must emerge the boy that was meant to be. As an 11-year old, that can be a valid means of coming to terms with parents and society, but as an adult, can you base a public life on cloaking yourself in feminine garb to prove yourself as a successful male? Treat me like a woman , and I will show you what a man can do? One is forever in the transformer stage of life, a kind of Dr Jekyll/Mrs Hyde kind of business.
    I hope that I haven't misinterpretted your post. I don't believe the "god made me do it" routine that one reads often, I do belive that the roots of our need to dress have chemical and nurture /psychological origins. I am not saying that by discovering those origins we will necessarily want to give up dressing, but for me knowing why I am who I am fulfills a need. Otherwise, I could have been just as well off being a rock.
    Mandrake out of water

  22. #22
    Girlygirl Tomboy Wannabee Toni_Lynn's Avatar
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    Hmmm -- just came across this, and if this doesn't explain my feelings about my having to become a girl to be a boy, nothing does.

    http://www.jockey.com/en-US/Catalog/...vc=ProductPage

    In these, I would be cute, and while they are definitely a total copy of the boy's style ... I'd be that perfect blend of boy and girl.

    They may not be for the rest of you .. but --

    Oh well ... don't know if it explains anything, but I do know that I just have to go climb into bed and have a good cry into pillow.


    Huggles

    Toni-Lynn
    Last edited by Toni_Lynn; 11-21-2009 at 03:33 PM.
    --I'm TN (transnationalist) - a Canadian born in an American's body! I stand on guard for thee!

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