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Thread: Confused on Terms

  1. #1
    Aspiring Artist Kelly DeWinter's Avatar
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    Confused on Terms

    For the longest time i was comfortable with the label 'crossdresser', being 100% hetro, not into the fetish side, etc. Now the more I read, especially Wekipedia, it seems that Crossdress is a sub category of being Transgendered, however the TG community seems split on wether to include it or not. I know there are other threads here that deal with terms and such, but is there any concrete material out there on the subject ? I mean recent scientific studies ? or are terms so fluid that they cannot be defined ? I guess the Wekipedia statement that bothered me was "The term cross-dresser should therefore be used with care to avoid causing misunderstanding or offense."

    Why would someone in th TG community be offended ?

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  2. #2
    Gold Member sherri52's Avatar
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    They may have meant offending the crossdresser, as many of us are hetro and may not like any other definitions thrown in our direction.

  3. #3
    Is it just me or......... Carroll's Avatar
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    From Webster's dictionary:

    Main Entry: trans·gen·der
    Pronunciation: \-ˈjen-dər\
    Variant(s): or trans·gen·dered \-dərd\
    Function: adjective
    Date: 1979

    : of, relating to, or being a person (as a transsexual or transvestite) who identifies with or expresses a gender identity that differs from the one which corresponds to the person's sex at birth

    — trans·gen·der·ism \-ˌi-zəm\ noun

    Main Entry: cross–dress·ing
    Pronunciation: \ˈkrȯs-ˌdre-siŋ\
    Function: noun
    Date: 1911

    : the wearing of clothes designed for the opposite sex
    So in one way, a person can be a crossdresser, but not transgender. I personally see myself and all that crossdress as transgender. If someone does not like it, then I guess they need to convince Mr. Webster to change his definitions
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  4. #4
    Texas gal sherri's Avatar
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    I take it that you have led a very sheltered existence?

    You see, dear, not only do CDers suffer prejudice at the hands of society in general as well as the gay community, but also within the TG community. There is, you see, a de facto pecking order within and without the TG world that would deny CDers the same sort of legitimacy accorded (albeit grudgingly) full-blown, full-time, hormone-ingesting, implant-investing, scalpel-loving, woman-trapped-in-a-man's-body-and-can't-wait-to-whack-it-off transsexuals. Apparently, the fact that we feel the need (for various reasons) to strike some sort of balance in our lives means that not only are we not to be taken seriously, we may be fetishistic perverts.

    I'm sorry to be the one to have to tell you.

  5. #5
    Silver Member Joanne f's Avatar
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    I personally think it has less to do with the clothes you wear and more to do with the feeling you have about yourself, is anyone less or more of something just because they have different clothes on , if so what do you become when you have no clothes on (that should get some of you thing)
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Joanne

  6. #6
    Ice queen Lorileah's Avatar
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    I give up. Am I a TG, TS, TV,CD, MID,DQ,Gender confused, gender dysphoric, IN, Out, Gay, straight, bi, pan,up, down, top, bottom, here today, gone tomorrow, left, right, left out, taken in, Morally bankrupt, wealthy in spirit, abstinent, easy, loose, up tight, outta sight, on the cusp, two standard deviations from normal?

    There are too many "If-then" in the world. I think of all the labels in the world transsexual may be the only one that fits a certain section of our community...but wait! what if they are transsexual who don't want surgery...or they want breasts but not a lower realignment...or maybe they want the best of everything.

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  7. #7
    Meberette Hope's Avatar
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    You don't have to be here very long before you learn to completely ignore terms, because lots of folks seem perfectly comfortable defining terms the way they feel is appropriate, giving no heed to the way others use the same terms, or historical definitions for terms. Many also feel completely within their rights to histrionics when someone defines terms differently than they do.

    Of course - this means that the terms are all basically meaningless. So don't stress about it too much.

    Of course meaningless terms lead to greater histrionics. There are girls here who consider CDing to be a hobby. There are girls here who are into CDing as a fetishistic exercise, and there are girls here who call themselves CDs but who are more honestly TG/TS. When one of the fetishists defines herself in terms that seem to include and imply that the individuals involved have similar motivations as the TS community - members of the TS community get freaked out because the TS community struggles so hard to be viewed as legitimate and not "just" sexual fetishists. Hilarity ensues.

    When one of the openly TS girls uses terms that imply that the hobbyists experience or motivations are similar to their own the hobbyists get their panties in a bunch because many of them spend their lives trying to convince their wives / husbands / girlfriends / boyfriends that they really are guys and don't want to to be girls and don't want to have their junk lopped off... they just enjoy dressing up and going out as girls sometimes. Hilarity ensues.

    When one of the hobbyists uses terms that seem to include fetishists and imply that their experience or motivations are similar to their own, and want to be out and open, and tell their bosses/children/friends the fetishists get weirded out because to them this is something that happens in the bed room and shouldn't really be brought out in the light of day and certainly not in front of the children. Hilarity ensues.
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  8. #8
    Ice queen Lorileah's Avatar
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    Hilarity now that's funny
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  9. #9
    The 100th sheep GaleWarning's Avatar
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    Jeez!

    And I thought we were all here simply because we love to crossdress!

    Hilary! Where's the dog? I need my pipe and stilettoes at the couch NOW!!!

  10. #10
    Gold Member Samantha B L's Avatar
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    I remember when the term "crossdresser" began to make it's inception. This was probably back around 1979 or 1980. I first saw the word used in a book I read about transexual operations and research into all sorts of things gender variant in nature. When I was making my first timid,nervous attempts to dabble in CD'ing I thought of myself as a "Transvestite" because a lot of people were still using that term like back 30-35 years ago and I'll confess I still say the "TV" word a lot but it's all in shifting contexts and the first impressions that people may develope. "Crossdresser" is better for the sake of any kind of legal or political argument designed to put us along further for things like employment or federal housing. Things like that there. People just might swallow "crossdresser" easier than "Transvestite". I'll say that Transvestite sounds like more fun. It also sounds like clones sent by the Reticulans,Izarians and Siriuns to draft Earth children into the Intergalactic armed forces. So Crossdresser is bit politically correct,yet it fits into a social mainstream context a little better than some of the other terms.

  11. #11
    Silver Member Teri Jean's Avatar
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    Kelly in my journey to find myself I have been CD, TG, as well as TS. Being one or the other is just a lable and TG is the umbrella term that is accepted today to cover a lot of different lables. Sexual orientation is all together different from the lables discribed before. You can be a post op TS and still be hetro and some will say if you are PO Trans-female and attracted to females you must be a lesbian, I say I'm happy. I wouldn't get to upset or confussed but I would say be happy with yourself where ever you are.

    Huggs Teri

  12. #12
    Making a life for Tina! suchacutie's Avatar
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    me too

    I got sucked into a thread a while back where all these labels were being thrown around with all manner of reference to this or that "authority". I read all the bias about TS vs TG, crossdresser vs tranvestite, and on and on it went. Then, to top it off the whole conversation added gender. I may be hetero, but when? When I'm Tina am I a trans-lesbian if I'm only interested in women? Some say yes and some deride the whole idea.

    With all that swirling around I realized that whether or not anyone agrees, I'm transgendered, I live alternating between a presentation in both genders, and so I'm straight and lesbian depending upon the moment!

    It's all actually a bit hilarious, isn't it

    tina

    p.s. oh, btw, I began to love the term bi-gendered

  13. #13
    The best of both worlds Kathi Lake's Avatar
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    Hope, I love your post. Spot on!

    As for labels, I'm not a label, I'm me. Do I get my panties in a bunch if someone calls me something I'm not? Look, if I were that concerned about what others thought about me, would I honestly be out and about wearing the clothes that I do? Didn't think so.



    Kathi

  14. #14
    Fashionista VeronicaMoonlit's Avatar
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    Sherri and Hope have hit the mark. Though only some, not all, cause the hilarity to ensue. And considering I identified as a CD in the past, I've experienced the pecking order....personally. Did you know there's some TS's who get upset if CD's use "transgendered" in an inclusive way and imply that their feelings, while different, have some similarities to TS's? They think it should apply only to TS's, even though the term was invented by a CD.

    The pecking order exists inside some (not all) TS communities too. For example, as a no-hair-removal-yet, no-mones-yet, non-full-time TS, I'm about as low as you can get on it. In fact, on IRC I was once told that I wasn't a "real" TS because "real TS's" would do anything to transition, even go into sex work to bankroll their transition.

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    Hi Kelly,

    I don't know about you but I'm at a point in my life were I'm not really worrying about labels anymore.

    I don't really care anymore what anyone would call me.

    There as so many different terms, and depending where you read about them some of the definitions vary.

    Everyone I believe has a male and "female" side to them. But the degree of their female side varies. We are all affected by various things in our lives such as hormones, physical environment, pollution, medications while in the womb and afterwards in life, feelings, emotions, family environment, personalities, etc., that there is no way we can all be fitted into categories and have labels affixed to us. No two of us are identical.

    As others here in the forum have so wisely advised me don't worry about labels. Just be who you are and enjoy life. That's exactly what I am trying to learn to do.


    Love


    Vicki
    Last edited by Vicki-Z; 12-01-2009 at 08:09 PM.

  16. #16
    Ice queen Lorileah's Avatar
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    I call people who use labels labelers I am not labeling them now but they are.
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  17. #17
    Just a little mouse. Babette's Avatar
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    Kelly,

    Loved your post. So why would anyone be offended? I don't know. Maybe some people naturally get up on the wrong side of their bed and get offended over little or nothing regardless of their affiliation. Did someone appoint Wikipedia the final word on everything?

    Babette
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  18. #18
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    I'm with the "no labels" team. Words are used to convey a thought. We tend to get to wrapped up in a word with a generic meaning not being specific enough to describe ourselves and then get upset/defensive.

    I think there should be two rules for all on-line reading. Don't be annoying and don't be easily annoyed. The written word is not perfect.

  19. #19
    Senior Member boardpuppy's Avatar
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    I agree Sue. Don't be annoying and don't be easily annoyed. But there are times when that statement is hard to apply, especially the second part.

    Hugs,
    Alice

  20. #20
    Joanie sterling12's Avatar
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    I'm with Terri Jean. I think of Transgendered as an "umbrella term." And, it is useful as a term we can use for all of us that fall within The Spectrum.

    You all forgot about all The Variations for The "Transmen," if you want to include more labels. But lucky for all of us, we can also call them Transgendered.

    One more time, let's explore commonality's, rather than define ourselves as being different....it certainly accomplishes nothing!

    Peace and Love, Joanie

  21. #21
    Fab Karen Fab Karen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carroll View Post
    From Webster's dictionary:

    : of, relating to, or being a person (as a transsexual or transvestite) who identifies with or expresses a gender identity that differs from the one which corresponds to the person's sex at birth




    So in one way, a person can be a crossdresser, but not transgender. I personally see myself and all that crossdress as transgender. If someone does not like it, then I guess they need to convince Mr. Webster to change his definitions
    Actually Webster is saying the opposite: who identifies with or expresses a gender identity that differs from the one which corresponds to the person's sex at birth.
    Maybe not all CD's identify with the opposite gender, but at least most are expressing a diff. gender identity.
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  22. #22
    Silver Member kellycan27's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sherri View Post
    I take it that you have led a very sheltered existence?

    You see, dear, not only do CDers suffer prejudice at the hands of society in general as well as the gay community, but also within the TG community. There is, you see, a de facto pecking order within and without the TG world that would deny CDers the same sort of legitimacy accorded (albeit grudgingly) full-blown, full-time, hormone-ingesting, implant-investing, scalpel-loving, woman-trapped-in-a-man's-body-and-can't-wait-to-whack-it-off transsexuals. Apparently, the fact that we feel the need (for various reasons) to strike some sort of balance in our lives means that not only are we not to be taken seriously, we may be fetishistic perverts.

    I'm sorry to be the one to have to tell you.
    Don't hold back.. tell us how you really feel. I don't see what all of the hoopla concerning labels is all about. People use labels as descriptive on these boards. Some use them because they are proud of what they are, some use them distance themselves from others,some use them in hopes of finding others who feel the same way that they do,( this is how I feel inside..and is there anyone else out there like me?), and sadly some use them to align themselves against others. Not everyone is a cross dresser, or a transsexual, or gay, or bi, or str8. Sure we can eliminate the labels and just consider ourselves as one group, but being such a diverse group... the issues that I have as a transsexual, may not be the same issues that you have as a cross dresser and so on and so forth. For example, I am one of those full blown,full time,hormone ingesting,implant investing,woman-trapped-in-a-man's-body-and can't-wait-to-whack-it-off-transsexuals. I don't expect you as a cross dresser to understand what I am going through, just as I don't really understand why you do and what motivates you to do so. Labels can work for or against us depending on how you use them.
    Prejudice has been around for centuries along with the seven deadly sins. If you let the haters and naysayers steal your thunder, they have accomplished their goal. Opinions are like a******s, everybody has one. I read the threads and I comment, I agree with some and disagree with others. At the end of the day when I log off, I don't even think about about what someone's opinion of me is. I just go back to being me. opinions are just that..opinions.
    I have an opinion too.... I think that some people who blame society for all of their woes and fears regarding this thing we do, sometimes use it as a crutch." I remain in the closet because society doesn't accept that I cross dress" which may be true to a certain extent, ( for all of you that cannot venture out because.......... fill in the blank) .My opinion on that is maybe they just can't or don't accept themselves. I think that the same thing applies to to this hierarchy and pecking order. I won't dispute that the fact that it does in fact exist, but how you view it or take it to heart depends on your personal opinion of yourself and your comfort level with respect to your particular proclivity. feel free to dispute this, but do you really need to? it's just my dumb opinion, and has no bearing on your life.
    I really laughed out loud at your assessment of of me. because the truth is that, it pretty much describes me to a tee, save for the disdain for others, and the scalpel part ewwwww, i don't like knives. I even had my boyfriend have a look, and he laughed as well, (he plays with scalpels everyday). I guess that my point is, if there is one..... is to not let labels and other peoples opinions get to you, because their opinion and $3.00 will get them a cup of coffee, and has no more bearing on your life than man on the moon marigolds... whatever the hell those are. I have gotten pretty good at this transsexual thing, even if I do say so myself. I am happy and content with my life and my don't give a shit about what others say attitude.

    Kelly

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    Last edited by kellycan27; 12-02-2009 at 05:16 PM.
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  23. #23
    Senior Member Sammy777's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sherri View Post
    There is, you see, a de facto pecking order within and without the TG world that would deny CDers the same sort of legitimacy accorded (albeit grudgingly) full-blown, full-time, hormone-ingesting, implant-investing, scalpel-loving, woman-trapped-in-a-man's-body-and-can't-wait-to-whack-it-off transsexuals.
    WOW!!!!!
    Seems the only thing you left out was that all TS's want to "whack-it-off" because we are all really just gay men that want to have sex with straight men.

    You might want to add that next time so you have the complete set of bullshit stereotypes in your next post


    Quote Originally Posted by sherri View Post
    You see, dear, not only do CDers suffer prejudice at the hands of society in general as well as the gay community, but also within the TG community.
    WOW Again!!
    Look who is calling the kettle black!

    Because TS's lives are filled with all warm and fuzzy feelings and we are embraced with open arms..............
    Believe that and I have a bridge to sell you sweetheart!


    Quote Originally Posted by sherri View Post
    Apparently, the fact that we feel the need (for various reasons) to strike some sort of balance in our lives means that not only are we not to be taken seriously, we may be fetishistic perverts.
    As compared to what? [according to you] hormone happy whack it off wackos????

    Quote Originally Posted by sherri View Post
    I'm sorry to be the one to have to tell you.
    Well I'm sorry to be the one to have to tell you that it is small closed minded thinking like yours that makes it hard on EVERYBODY, not just CD'ers.
    SO get over yourself and stop crying me a river ,,!,,
    Last edited by Sammy777; 12-02-2009 at 02:44 AM.
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  24. #24
    GG ReineD's Avatar
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    The general terms mean different things to different people because they overlap. And they keep changing as members of the TG community increase their own understanding and give themselves permission to develop. I like Wikipedia's explanation of the terms and how they have evolved.

    Not to complicate things, but I don't remember seeing the term "cross-gender" before.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wikipedia
    People who live cross-gender

    People who live cross-gender live always or mostly as the gender other than that assigned at birth. If they want to be or identify as their gender assigned at birth, then the term "crossdresser" may be used. If they want to be or identify as the gender they always or mostly live in, then the term "transsexual" may be used. The term "transgender" or "transgenderist" has been applied to people who live cross-gender without sex reassignment surgery.
    There are no meaningful scientific studies. TGs are too deeply closeted.
    Last edited by ReineD; 12-02-2009 at 03:27 AM. Reason: added last line.
    Reine

  25. #25
    I live in the real world! DaphneGrey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sherri View Post
    I take it that you have led a very sheltered existence?

    You see, dear, not only do CDers suffer prejudice at the hands of society in general as well as the gay community, but also within the TG community. There is, you see, a de facto pecking order within and without the TG world that would deny CDers the same sort of legitimacy accorded (albeit grudgingly) full-blown, full-time, hormone-ingesting, implant-investing, scalpel-loving, woman-trapped-in-a-man's-body-and-can't-wait-to-whack-it-off transsexuals. Apparently, the fact that we feel the need (for various reasons) to strike some sort of balance in our lives means that not only are we not to be taken seriously, we may be fetishistic perverts.

    I'm sorry to be the one to have to tell you.
    Wow You know if Crossdressers (not all) as a subculture or group would stop with the I am not/we are not like them nonsense then things might seem different in the greater community.

    That almost never happens, not only on forums like ours and others. But in media as well. There have been more crossdressers on mainstream talk shows and what happens? I am/we are Not Gay! I am just a guy who likes to wear women's clothes. Oh and have a femme name, just remember I am not Gay. Did I mention fake boobs oh its just so the clothes fit. But I am not gay!

    And yet you all want to whine because the gay community doesn't want to take crossdressers seriously. Can you blame them!

    I have said it before and I will say it again and again. If crossdressers keep projecting this ridiculous defensive attitude where every other word out of their mouths is "I am not like them" The gays/ The transexuals they will continue as a group and subculture to get what they deserve Isolation.

    I volunteer at a gay community center and interact with transexuals all the time. and the only people in our community who ever looked down their noses at me were other crossdressers! I wont go into details here.

    My apology to the OP It is just that these attitudes drive me crazy
    Living the life I choose!

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