Crossing dressing and dating guys?

[ReineD]

Presh, honestly even if you went to a non-CD, men only site, I'm guessing you would find much similar thinking. Not about having sex with other men, just fantasizing about sex outside the relationship.

[sonja]

love men love women in all ways

[Di]

This thread is mind-boggling. If any GG ever wants to be a fly on the wall to learn how men think, she only needs to join cd.com and read threads like these.

Totally AGREE ever time I see another thread like this I .....the comments, the fantasizing the preoccuption just SCREAMS MEN.
Sorry just do not get the dwelling on it....but it seems like a
Mars vs. Venus: kinda thing and I relate more to a woman I guess.

[Sarah_GG]

Totally AGREE ever time I see another thread like this I .....the comments, the fantasizing the preoccuption just SCREAMS MEN.
Sorry just do not get the dwelling on it....but it seems like a
Mars vs. Venus: kinda thing and I relate more to a woman I guess.

You're so right Di. It's a MEN thing!

But, on the positive side, I guess it's honest. At least we can see what goes on in the minds of many men and what their preoccupations are. For many newly knowing partners, the contents of this thread would confirm many a fear. But, it's had a lot of response and interest so there must be something in it?

[Sasha Anne Meadows]

I don't judge my sisters so those of whom want to be with guys are fine with me. Personally I don't find anything attractive about men. I don't even like myself as a man so I am in female mode almost all the time. I guess then if we are looking for labels I am a lesbian.

[Daintre]

I will always say that fidelity is utmost in a relationship, however, fantasy can take you to many places. Many men and women fantasize about a myriad of things at times. Is the thought of being with a man so out there? of course not. If you have made a life commitment, then stand by that. There is a huge difference between reality and fantasy, what we think is not always translated into action.

[MJ]

Sadly this thread is on an open forum that anyone "Joe or Jane Public" could read and we wonder why the public thinks ill of or doesn't want to know about trans-people.
How do we justify such fantasy?

Presh GG

We are complicated beings one box does not fit all. and how do you justify saying we are all trans ?. clearly we are not and "Joe or Jane Public" don't have the time to take an in depth look at our world, what they see on Jerry springer must be true cause it's on TV right.

fantasy is one thing and can be healthy for gg or gm but to cheat on your S.O now that's wrong. fantasy land is fine if it stays there..

Trust me from a real t-girl ..there are married men out there who hunt us down for real sex then go home to there wife's how sad is that...

now if the person is single then hey whatever floats your boat.

me no thanks i don't care for men or woman way too much drama.

[Sophie_C]

This thread is mind-boggling. If any GG ever wants to be a fly on the wall to learn how men think, she only needs to join cd.com and read threads like these.

Am I naive in thinking that there are far more GMs who are in a relationship that fantasize about cheating as there are GGs in similar situations? Doesn't matter if it is fantasizing about other men or women. Except a GG in a relationship with a GM cannot compete with another man. There's nothing she can do to keep her guy interested if he wants to be with another guy.

I don't know. Maybe everyone, GMs and GGs, fantasizes about others after they've been with a partner for awhile. Sex can become staid and it is certainly much easier to get that 'high' with someone new than working on the current sexual relationship.

ReineD, don't feel so down in this. First off, remember that MANY people, such as myself are single here, and nothing is wrong with what is posted, in that case, at all. I think you may be focusing on the lesser amount of those who are in relationships, or worse, married, who are thinking or seriously considering cheating, which are only a handful of people in this ever-so-long thread.

Secondly, do remember, that it is in the nature of men to "spread their seed" so to speak, and even in healthy, nearly ideal relationships, the will have fantasies of being with others. And, remember, a fantasy is not a genuine interest. They're two entirely different things, with a line that should never be crossed.

And, to be fair, if men have a nature to be with many women and the handle that nature through fantasy, how can you hate them for it? They are choosing to do that instead of cheat, and most men have done that their entire lives. I mean, what is pornography, but fantasies of other people, set in a visual method? And, virtually all men look at it, which reaffirms that notion.

But, of course, it's only when they choose the fantasy over the woman next to them, when it becomes wrong, in and of itself. And, that's where the line which should never be crossed.

[zoe m]

Sexual attraction and arousal are complicated stuff... In my case, while dressed as a man I've been on a kind of date with a man and also went to some gay clubs , and I've had a few men who were after me. They were all very nice, but I didn't feel anything so it never went anywhere. Other than maybe the hope that it might be a situation where I could dress as a woman (which didn't happen). While dressed, I never used to fantasize about being with a man, it wasn't part of my original fantasies. But in the last few years I have started to occasionally fantasize about it, and it definitely does something for me. I like to think about the contrast between a masculine man and me dressed as a woman, 'cause it highlights my femininity. And I think I just like the naughtiness of it . The thought of the actual sex with the man doesn't horrify me, I've got nothing against it, but it doesn't do much for me and it seems more like a gymnastic chore than anything . That said, I agree with whoever was that said "don't knock it till you try it!"

I like to assume that most of us are bisexual and go from there. If I'm sometime in a position where I can have sex as a woman with a man, I might try it and see what happens. Why not? (if I'm single, that is). If I don't get to I won't be too let down (whereas my TV issues are not something I can forget about). There's lots of things in the world that I'm curious about. It's just not that strong for me. It's natural for people to fantasize about other people even if they're in a relationship, it's not something to be ashamed about. When I've been in relationships with women I've often fantasized about other girls, more often than any fantasies of being a woman with a man. And I'm ok with the person I'm with having fantasies also. It's a question of the force and nature of the fantasies. If they become greater than your actual love for your partner, and the joy and sexual excitement you get from the relationship, then it can become a problem. It's normal for long relationships to go stale, but it's also sad. But that's a general problem that everyone faces, not just crossdressers. And there's a lot written about that so I won't go into it. Same with cheating - it's human and it's a mistake many people have made, but it's still something you don't wanna do. That's true for TVs, TSs, gay men, straight men, lesbians, everybody. If you have an overwhelming urge (not just an occasional fantasy) to be with someone else and you're in a long-term relationship, then that's gonna be a problem, regardless of your gender or the one you're attracted to. You just have to decide what's best and try not to hurt people while also being honest to yourself and your partner, I guess.

If you're single or in an open relationship, then I say go ahead and try it, sure, why not!

[joannemarie barker]

i'm single and whether i choose a man or a woman to be with i would never cheat on anybody.

[ReineD]

ReineD, don't feel so down in this.

You bring up several very good points, Sophie, thank you. And I do tend to assume that many of the CDs are married. Perhaps this is wrong.

I just want to tell everyone that my objection is not about CDs wanting to be with men. I have no bias against any sexual preference. What bothers me are the people who are in relationships and who use the fantasy as a way to remove the energy from their sexual relationship with their partners. I've been reading threads in this forum long enough to know that for most of you (according to what you post), nothing compares to the excitement you feel when you are dressed. Nothing. So it is not such a stretch to believe that the sexual fantasies you have when dressed are more gratifying to you than having real sex with your wives, and there are many posts that confirm this as well. So don't you think your wives feel this too?

But that's a general problem that everyone faces, not just crossdressers. And there's a lot written about that so I won't go into it.

That was my point earlier too. Yes, much of it has to do with the frequency and the strength of the fantasy. Occasional, passing fantasies are harmless whether someone CDs or not. But I sometimes wonder if more CDs than non-CDs' fantasies are much more powerful since the CDing is akin to an obsession (this is not a judgment, but the way I have of describing how important it is to most of you). I also get the impression that many CDs don't believe their fantasies 'count' while dressed since in this state, the wives are not being deprived of their male partners' attention.

No one knows, other than the CDer and his wife, how much the fantasies are getting in the way of their sexual relationship reaching its full potential.

But I can tell you this thread has upset more than one GG.

[Soriya]

Pondering some thoughts
Hiya everyone

First I have to say this forum has been so helpful for me in the week I have been here and it's answered so many questions for me in that short time. One of the biggest questions it seems a lot of us have are about the idea of being with a man while dressed as a woman, including myself so after reading many posts and the thread about dating guys, I have been thinking about it a lot and why that may be since I know I am not gay or Bi-sexual according to the labels that have been given to those attractions.

I am really starting to believe that these desires while dressed is very normal and actually very heterosexual for those of us that are not attracted to men while in 'man mode'. When we dress, we are presenting as a woman, feeling like a woman, and most importantly, thinking like a woman. It's as if we are placing our male side to the background and bringing our female side to the foreground. of course I am not saying we all should act on them, just thinking of why it occurs. Using the 3 main terms associated with sexuality if I got this correct...

Heterosexual: Male attracted to Female and Female attracted to Male
Bisexual: Male attracted to both Male and Female and Female attracted to both Male and Female
Homosexual: Male attracted to Male and Female attracted to Female.

Now using those descriptions, I am really starting to believe when we are thinking like a woman, it's natural to have have desires for the opposite sex since we are mentally a woman despite our physical 'plumbing'. I guess I could take it a step further say that for those of us that think about women or other CD's while dressed are bisexual but from a female perspective.

I don't know, I am really starting to think overall, that people like us are more 'complete' as individuals then most and it's the scripted society that we live in that labels us otherwise. Think about it, have we really evolved as a race? Sure we have in terms of technology and such, but under it all, we still live in a society that is 10's of thousand years old where Male is the more dominant sex. I mean, I don't know about all of you, but me being a people watcher, when I am out at a club or bar, wherever, and just watch the people around me, playing the 'game' of trying to attract the opposite sex, I think to myself I could watch the same thing on National Geographic! LOL

Just some random observations

XO

Soriya

[ReineD]

I am really starting to believe that these desires while dressed is very normal and actually very heterosexual for those of us that are not attracted to men while in 'man mode'. When we dress, we are presenting as a woman, feeling like a woman, and most importantly, thinking like a woman. It's as if we are placing our male side to the background and bringing our female side to the foreground.

... I am really starting to believe when we are thinking like a woman, it's natural to have have desires for the opposite sex since we are mentally a woman despite our physical 'plumbing'.

Hi Soriya, I'm not trying to be difficult, but that's my point exactly. So the wife is now married to only a part-time husband. This would create an imbalance in any relationship. The issue is not being attracted to a male vs. a female. It is about habitually being attracted to someone else outside the relationship. Of course, if the CD is single it is another story altogether.

[Robyn_mncd]

Put me in the Lesbian column too. Guys just don't do it for me.

[Soriya]

Hi Soriya, I'm not trying to be difficult, but that's my point exactly. So the wife is now married to only a part-time husband. This would create an imbalance in any relationship. The issue is not being attracted to a male vs. a female. It is about habitually being attracted to someone else outside the relationship. Of course, if the CD is single it is another story altogether.

Hiya Reine, your not being difficult at all IMO, I think this is a healthy discussion. I agree with you and what you are saying as I don't condone the actions of someone exploring any type of activity outside of a relationship such as even an 'emotional' affair. What I posted was more of a broad overview of possibly why the thoughts occur in the first place, more so trying to understand where they come from despite ones current relationship status. I should have clarified when I mentioned I thought it might be healthy to feel these desires while presenting as a woman but it's not healthy if it infringes into ones relationship. Excellent point about someone being a 'part-time' husband too but after going through a divorce over the last year and learning more about myself in that one year then in the previous 38, ignoring something that causes an imbalance in a relationship is not the way to go, nor does acting on them. Working through them either with your partner or with a therapist to understand them would perhaps be a better option IMO.

XO

Soriya

[zoe m]

I've been reading threads in this forum long enough to know that for most of you (according to what you post), nothing compares to the excitement you feel when you are dressed. Nothing.

I don't know about other people, but for me, there are plenty of things that excite me as much or much more than dressing as a woman. It's just that those are things that I can talk about openly, and so don't need an online forum to do it. Crossdressing does have the particular excitement of being forbidden, it's true. And also you start to feel deep down inside that it's not good or healthy to repress something that comes naturally. But that doesn't mean I value it more than other things in life.

Cheating is wrong regardless of who does it. As for fantasies, I feel like most men, including regular straight men, do fantasize with some frequency about other people. I assume it's the same for women, I could be wrong. It becomes a problem if it's about always about the same person, because then it means you are attracted to that person. And also if you no longer feel the spark and love with your partner. I wouldn't wanna be in a relationship with someone if I didn't feel happy in it.

Probably each CD in here has a slightly different sexual mix. If yours is such that it prevents you from being in a relationship with just one woman, then you probably shouldn't be in that kind of relationship (yeah, i know it's not that simple). And that's ok. I'm sure there are many here who can be in one and some who can't.

[Jenny Aurora]

Please bare with me, I am not the best in discussions but here goes

Hi Soriya, I'm not trying to be difficult, but that's my point exactly. So the wife is now married to only a part-time husband. This would create an imbalance in any relationship. The issue is not being attracted to a male vs. a female. It is about habitually being attracted to someone else outside the relationship. Of course, if the CD is single it is another story altogether.

Hi Reine. I would have to agree with Soriya about the part time husband part. I'm single and would never condone cheating (I hope thats the right word). But when I was with my first girlfriend, I think part of me was always emotionally unavailable to her and there was probably quite a lot missing from the relationship that would of been there if she was with a 'normal' person. It's something I am not proud of and I am really shameful/regretful that it happened, she did nothing to deserve that. At the time, I guess I only saw things one way. I guess it did not help that I did not understand much back then. What made me see this most of all was when I was in a later relationship and found that the person I was with was drifting away emotionally until I found out her heart was elsewhere. Emotionally cheating? It is such a horrible feeling to feel as if someone is not fully in the relationship, that anything is missing or that the person you are with would prefer you to be someone else, someone different. It's like a stab to the heart.

Maybe it is something that can be best seen when you experienced it yourself? It's too easy to get lost in your own little world.

I wonder though what the situation would be for a bi sexual person. If they were in a relationship with one sex, what happens to the attractions to the other side. Fantasies are one thing, but if they affect your current relationships then it stops becoming harmless.

[Jessy]

I am single myself as well, and it's been years since I had a so. Those days, I was still all the way closeted, so being a cd and having a relationship at the same time was more a problem for just myself. Still, the cd doesn't change who I am and who I love. I am heterosexual and if I am with a woman that I love, my feelings for her wouldn't be different when dressing up.

However things might become harder in a relationship when coming out. And I can understand very well that many ggs might have problems with cd. Like said before, they could feel like they only have a parttime husband. But that's all a matter how she feels about the whole cd subject, how far we feel like we need to go with our cd around her, and what sacrifices we are willing to make...

[zoe m]

But I sometimes wonder if more CDs than non-CDs' fantasies are much more powerful since the CDing is akin to an obsession (this is not a judgment, but the way I have of describing how important it is to most of you).

I wouldn't say it's really an obsesion for me - it's just one more thing, but it's something I have to really give some thought to because it's, well, a little out there and not really accepted by other people. It can sometims be tricky to figure out. But I think it's more likely to become an obsession if I try to suppress it or pretend it's not there. I'd rather live with it and not let it take over my life. For me it's less about the act of doing it than about knowing that I do like to do it and feeling ok about that.

Reine, I think you're bringing up good points for people to think about. I don't think a relationship with a CD is for everybody. Hopefully forums like these and greater tolerance in general will help CDs to come out to their partners earlier on in a relationship so they can figure it all out sooner.

In the end, I think for me some of it too is that since the whole CD thing is much less open in society than the gay community, I sometimes wanna think I'm bisexual so that I can be part of a community and not feel like a weirdo (though finding this site has been great!). The fantasies maybe come from that. But if I'm honest about it, there's really very little that pulls me towards men. I guess it's different for each CD or TV.

I think threads like these attract a lot of attention on this site because everyone assumes we're gay and so we're spend a lot of time trying to figure out if we are or not.

Maya

[Fab Karen]

And I do tend to assume that many of the CDs are married. Perhaps this is wrong.
Unless they say they're married, or hint at it, then don't assume they are.

I just want to tell everyone that my objection is not about CDs wanting to be with men. I have no bias against any sexual preference. What bothers me are the people who are in relationships and who use the fantasy as a way to remove the energy from their sexual relationship with their partners.
IF they're doing that, is it conscious? Regardless, they need to get honest with themselves and think about what their marriage means.

But I sometimes wonder if more CDs than non-CDs' fantasies are much more powerful since the CDing is akin to an obsession (this is not a judgment, but the way I have of describing how important it is to most of you). I also get the impression that many CDs don't believe their fantasies 'count' while dressed since in this state, the wives are not being deprived of their male partners' attention.
Throw out "many." Some are married, and SOME of those people may be selfish & deluding themselves so they can have their cake & eat it too ( & possibly remain in denial of their sexuality ). It isn't because they are CD's.

But I can tell you this thread has upset more than one GG.

Not all of us ( or even possibly "many" ) are married, and even fewer of those who are married are selfish people who'd use ANY excuse to cheat. I repeat, it isn't because they are CD's.

[kellycan27]

I can see where threads like this could be unnerving for gg's and the SO's of cders. Especially with all of the hiding deceitfulness that gets mentioned in a lot of the treads. How does the wife of SO of a cder separate fact from fantasy? These poor ladies are sitting here reading posts from their loved ones and people like their loved ones who are openly admitting to either wanting to experience sex with someone else, or fantasizing about it. Whether they follow through or not, it still plants the seeds of doubt. I am sure it may even leave them wondering about the future of their relationship. Couple that with all the threads regarding cder's who suddenly decide that they want to transition. Where does tis leave the wife or SO.
I am not saying that there is anything wrong with expression,just that these type threads can lead to a lot of insecurity for loved ones.

[JulieK1980]

You bring up several very good points, Sophie, thank you. And I do tend to assume that many of the CDs are married. Perhaps this is wrong.

I just want to tell everyone that my objection is not about CDs wanting to be with men. I have no bias against any sexual preference. What bothers me are the people who are in relationships and who use the fantasy as a way to remove the energy from their sexual relationship with their partners. I've been reading threads in this forum long enough to know that for most of you (according to what you post), nothing compares to the excitement you feel when you are dressed. Nothing. So it is not such a stretch to believe that the sexual fantasies you have when dressed are more gratifying to you than having real sex with your wives, and there are many posts that confirm this as well. So don't you think your wives feel this too?



That was my point earlier too. Yes, much of it has to do with the frequency and the strength of the fantasy. Occasional, passing fantasies are harmless whether someone CDs or not. But I sometimes wonder if more CDs than non-CDs' fantasies are much more powerful since the CDing is akin to an obsession (this is not a judgment, but the way I have of describing how important it is to most of you). I also get the impression that many CDs don't believe their fantasies 'count' while dressed since in this state, the wives are not being deprived of their male partners' attention.

No one knows, other than the CDer and his wife, how much the fantasies are getting in the way of their sexual relationship reaching its full potential.

But I can tell you this thread has upset more than one GG.

There are also a few of us that have "alternative" relationships with our spouses (that I won't go into detail on an open forum) that are consensual, and enjoyable by both of us.

That said, I don't think cheating in the sense of hiding it from your partner is good either. But I also think quite a few women fantasize about extramarital affairs as well, its not just a male thought process.

[kellycan27]

But I also think quite a few women fantasize about extramarital affairs as well, its not just a male thought process.

Maybe so, but how many of them go broadcasting it in front of their SO's and friends? or the SO's of their friends. I think that a lot of you miss the point. While a lot of you want to reassure your SO's that your cding is nothing more than that, you post how you fantasize or think about being with another man. How many of you that are in a committed relationship would want your SO to read what you write about it? What do you think that their reaction would be if they did read about it? How do you think that such admissions affect the supportive gg's who are a part of this group and trying to understand what their cross dressing SO is all about?

[julia ann]

I have fantasized about men while dressed and on one occasion, after maybe one to many, I said good bye to very nice gentlemen I had been speaking with all evening at a TG bar, not real sure where it came from but as I was leaving it seemed to come very natural to reach over a kiss him good night. Lasted much longer than I had anticipated and was a nice top off to being treated like a lady all evening. However to go further , for now, is out of the qyestion as I am currently married, a simple kiss was one thing but more would be to far at this time.

[JulieK1980]

Maybe so, but how many of them go broadcasting it in front of their SO's and friends? or the SO's of their friends. I think that a lot of you miss the point. While a lot of you want to reassure your SO's that your cding is nothing more than that, you post how you fantasize or think about being with another man. How many of you that are in a committed relationship would want your SO to read what you write about it? What do you think that their reaction would be if they did read about it? How do you think that such admissions affect the supportive gg's who are a part of this group and trying to understand what their cross dressing SO is all about?

I still say that's overly generalized. I'm hard-pressed to believe I'm the only one here that has a fully supportive wife AND still is completely open and honest with her. While I agree there are some that do not think of there spouse in the matter, or don't care to tell there SO about their fantasies or actions, I don't buy that its only men doing this, and its probably an equal statistic of women behaving in the same manner. Its more of a sad state for People in general vs. men or Women or CD'ers or Non-CD'ers.

What I'm trying to get across is that we don't necessarily have enough information to judge the actions or posts of others on here, as we are only getting the information they give. We don't know necessarily if there SO is aware or not, or what is acceptable in there relationship, as all relationships are different. If they are in fact "cheating" within the confines of there own relationship, then yes its bad, but for all we know they have a SO who is ok with what they do.