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Thread: How do we know when we pass?

  1. #1
    Junior Member sempervirens's Avatar
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    How do we know when we pass?

    There're a lot of threads about passing, what it means, whether it's important to us, how to pass, whether or not we should use the word "pass" due to its implications, etc. I just haven't seen a recent thread about how you know when/if you're passing.

    Msginaadoll said in a recent thread that it's hard to know when you're passing (being taken for the gender you're presenting as), and easier to know when you're not. People may say ma'am out of respect, whether or not they think you're a woman. If they call you sir, well, there's a sign you're not passing.

    So, how do we differentiate between respect and being viewed as women? Or, whether the double-takes are because we're looking hot or someone's trying to read whether we're GGs? What about the manner we're communicated with?

    I was out shopping for groceries (I <3 Wegmans) with my fiancee. At least one person thought I was female-- the clerk I had to convince my ID was really me when we were carded. Earlier, though, the butcher had said "what can I get you guys?" Do GGs out together get called "guys?" Prolly not.

    I'm curious, what do you think are the signs or signals that you're not passing?

  2. #2
    Senior Member carolinoakland's Avatar
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    well if they smile you're usually passing enough. and after awhile, and it's got to mean diferent things to say a cd, than it does for a tg. apples and oranges?

  3. #3
    Samantha K Samantha Kelsey's Avatar
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    I don't think you will ever know if you pass, just because nobody stares or says anything to you doesn't mean they haven't made you.
    Many people are too polite to alert you that they know. It's more likely that you'll know when you haven't passed.
    Sam.

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    Miss Conception Karren H's Avatar
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    I know I've passed when they start shoveling dirt on my coffin!
    Current Obsession - Breasts and Lingerie!

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    :) Post-Op Hippie Chick CharleneT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sempervirens View Post
    There're a lot of threads about passing, what it means, whether it's important to us, how to pass, whether or not we should use the word "pass" due to its implications, etc. I just haven't seen a recent thread about how you know when/if you're passing.
    Actually if you read 'em carefully there is a lot about that out there. But the basic truth is that you do not know when you pass. SO, don't worry and enjoy yourself !

    Quote Originally Posted by sempervirens View Post
    Msginaadoll said in a recent thread that it's hard to know when you're passing (being taken for the gender you're presenting as), and easier to know when you're not. People may say ma'am out of respect, whether or not they think you're a woman. If they call you sir, well, there's a sign you're not passing.
    there are many signs you are not passing.... very few that you are.

    Quote Originally Posted by sempervirens View Post
    I was out shopping for groceries (I <3 Wegmans) with my fiancee. At least one person thought I was female-- the clerk I had to convince my ID was really me when we were carded. Earlier, though, the butcher had said "what can I get you guys?" Do GGs out together get called "guys?" Prolly not.
    In my experience many people, especially servers, tend to call a table or group of people, "guys". I do not think they mean any gender ID by it. Yes, girls will often say to a group of other girls "guys, let's ....." In fact, probably more often than "girl's let's....". GG's do not share CD's habit of always id'ing themselves by gender.
    There is a road—no simple highway—between the dawn and the dark of night.
    And if you go no one may follow. That path is for your steps alone.

  6. #6
    New Member desi88's Avatar
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    i feel passing is all about the moment...
    i have passed at times and at other times i have shocked...lol

    it's all fun

  7. #7
    Junior Member BWOemerger's Avatar
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    It doesn't matter

    As long as I am not having people laugh and point out "Look at the guy in the dress" I feel that I am passing enough. That doesn't mean everyone thinks I am a girl but there is enough doubt in their mind that they are not going to embarrass themselves by pointing me out. In my mind these days that is passing

  8. #8
    GG ReineD's Avatar
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    The taller you are, the larger your face, shoulders, hands, and feet and the deeper your voice, the more male gender cues you will emit, no matter how well you look or carry yourself. But not everyone will read them. People have differing levels of gender radar sensitivity, independent of how well you present.

    Also, my SO and I have noticed that she passes better when I am not around. People make subconscious comparisons when they see us together. This is why I do my best to wear higher heels when we are together dressed, while she keeps to 2" heels, so at least we are close to the same height.

    As the others have said, the importance is how you are accepted and treated while dressed. Say you begin to go to a coffee shop regularly and you befriend another regular patron. Once you begin to talk at length, it is likely you will be read, unless you have a small stature and you've perfected your voice pitch. But if the person you've befriended accepts that you are feminine and not a guy in a dress, then you've been successful in your presentation?
    Reine

  9. #9
    Female Illusionist! docrobbysherry's Avatar
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    Passing is so easy, really!

    No one has EVER questioned me about my gender or sexual persuasion!

    Of course, I'm a guy, and only go out dressed as one!
    U can't keep doing the same things over and over and expect to enjoy life to the max. When u try new things, even if they r out of your comfort zone, u may experience new excitement and growth that u never expected.

    Challenge yourself and pursue your passions! When your life clock runs out, you'll have few or NO REGRETS!

  10. #10
    Senior Member Christina Horton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sempervirens View Post
    I was out shopping for groceries (I <3 Wegmans) with my fiancee. At least one person thought I was female-- the clerk I had to convince my ID was really me when we were carded. Earlier, though, the butcher had said "what can I get you guys?" Do GGs out together get called "guys?" Prolly not.
    My mom does not like it when (everybody) expecaiouly girls use the (Hay guys.....) Line, she would say "WE ARE NOT "GUYS" HERE"!!!!! she hates it very much. Yes Girls use the (guys) line tother girls . It is just an expresstion like (for our southern girls out there) "How are ya all doing today" or "good day" how do you know the other person is haveing a good day or a bad one. So yes they do use it.


    Quote Originally Posted by sempervirens View Post
    I'm curious, what do you think are the signs or signals that you're not passing?


    I am not sure what it would be. If I make people laugh then at least I made them happier then they were before and maybe one day they will look back at what they did and fill a little bad for that. I really could care less if I pass or weather I make people laugh or read me .It took me some time to get to the place where I was not worried about my shoulders or my size or my look.

    Passing is a big step for a lot of girls to get to before they even go out of doors , for me it was getting eveything together like wig breast froms etc. Then after I went out to the mall for my first outting makeover (by myself) I was hooked and about 1 year later can to realise that I don't need to pass cuz I like who I am and no ned to (be what others think I should be) . Like I said it took me about a year to get there.

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  11. #11
    Aspiring Member Melanie R's Avatar
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    For me I knew I passed when a teen aged black girl who was with her parents starred at my wife and Melanie for a long time and later asked if we were sisters. Of course she may have needed glasses.
    I love being "gender gifted"! www.pmpub.com

  12. #12
    Nicole Jones sallyjones's Avatar
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    if you go out and you act the part then you pass. if you dont pass and noone says anything, i call that a pass too. there has been several times i saw a girl that didnt look quite right but she got the benifit of the dought. so go out and pass for yourself that should be enough.

  13. #13
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    Sometimes GG's in groups get called "guys" like "so whaqt can I get you guys?" It is not a rude thing, just a knee-jerk response even if there is no mistaking they are GG's. OR if it is a mix of men and women the group as a whole gets called "guys", just probably slangish. Nothing more.

    For me, when I am out with my wife (seldom) we always seem to get called "ladies", even if I am making little effort to try to look femme. I know that contradicts others' experiences.

    Yes there are tons of threads about "passing", but you kind of have to get to where you don't obsess about it. Sure I think about it a lot but really, if I get called "ma'am", it feels good but it doesn't make my day, or if I get called "sir" it bothers me a bit but doesn't ruin my day.

    I think the only time to really worry about this "passing" is if you are trying to go stealth, like if that is even an option in the first place. For someone like me it might be possible, but would cost more in surgeries than I could ever afford.

    The best thing to do is to present as tasteful as possible. I mean even if you are read, it isn't going to make a scene as much as if say, you try to go out dressed like Britney Spears (unless you really have the youth and figure to pull it off).

    I know from experience that having to bust ass to be anywhere near passable does suck, it's hard and don't always work, but being born GM's and having a lot of disadvantages, we can't beat ourselves up. If we had great female bodies and somehow let it go to waste (like if a marathon runner gained 150 pounds by eating too much junk food) then we could feel guilty but do the best you can with what you have. What else CAN you do?

    Just think, a lot of GG's out there wish THEY looked perfect too.
    It takes a true Erin to be a pain in the assatar.

  14. #14
    Silver Member kellycan27's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicole Erin View Post
    Sometimes GG's in groups get called "guys" like "so whaqt can I get you guys?" It is not a rude thing, just a knee-jerk response even if there is no mistaking they are GG's. OR if it is a mix of men and women the group as a whole gets called "guys", just probably slangish. Nothing more.

    For me, when I am out with my wife (seldom) we always seem to get called "ladies", even if I am making little effort to try to look femme. I know that contradicts others' experiences.

    Yes there are tons of threads about "passing", but you kind of have to get to where you don't obsess about it. Sure I think about it a lot but really, if I get called "ma'am", it feels good but it doesn't make my day, or if I get called "sir" it bothers me a bit but doesn't ruin my day.

    I think the only time to really worry about this "passing" is if you are trying to go stealth, like if that is even an option in the first place. For someone like me it might be possible, but would cost more in surgeries than I could ever afford.

    The best thing to do is to present as tasteful as possible. I mean even if you are read, it isn't going to make a scene as much as if say, you try to go out dressed like Britney Spears (unless you really have the youth and figure to pull it off).

    I know from experience that having to bust ass to be anywhere near passable does suck, it's hard and don't always work, but being born GM's and having a lot of disadvantages, we can't beat ourselves up. If we had great female bodies and somehow let it go to waste (like if a marathon runner gained 150 pounds by eating too much junk food) then we could feel guilty but do the best you can with what you have. What else CAN you do?

    Just think, a lot of GG's out there wish THEY looked perfect too.
    There are a ton of these passing threads....... I am stayin out of this one
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  15. #15
    Senior Member Sally2005's Avatar
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    The 'guys' comment is not gender specific so the butcher may not have 'read' you. The only sure fire way I know about is to have someone discover your true gender and react with true surprise. This happened to me at a halloween party two years ago when I was asked for ID at the door. The bouncer was honestly surprised and had to check with me. He was really impressed. Otherwise, we probably just blend in most of the time. I think the key to being happy is not to worry about being read, just do you best and take the attitude that you are CDing and if someone notices, good for them.

  16. #16
    New Member CharleneM's Avatar
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    I think you know when you pass, when you stand in a long line of women going to the ladies room, and they don't have a clue, and afterwood, at the sinks washing your hands, fixing your lipstick, and not getting any stares in the mirror.

  17. #17
    Senior Member charlie's Avatar
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    Hey, if the general crowd is not pointing, making loud comments or yelling at me......in my book I'm passing!
    Charlie

  18. #18
    The best of both worlds Kathi Lake's Avatar
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    I guess my question would be; passing to whom - others or yourself?

    If it's others you're concerned with (and honestly, why should you be?), then I would say that the lack of screaming torch-wielding, pitchfork-carrying villagers would be a good clue. Also, the lack of snickering, pointing, mouths being agape, and the obligatory, "Holy crap - that's a guy!" would also tell you that you were not read.

    Other than the villagers (except for that one time), I have experienced all of the above. How did it affect me? Not a bit. On the subject of passing, I have to rely on others. Many people have told me that I am feminine, small, cute, pretty and the like. They say that I do pass. Myself, I don't think so. I feel that I'm in the two-bagger range. Once again, does that affect me? Not a bit. You see, I pass my own test - do I feel good when out and about dressed as a woman. To that I have to give a hearty, Sarah Palin-like "You betcha!"

    Kathi

  19. #19
    Senior Member 5150 Girl's Avatar
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    You won't know if you pass, or simply blend in to the crowd. However, you will somtimes know if you don't. Make scence?

  20. #20
    Fashionista VeronicaMoonlit's Avatar
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    I wish I could s/passing//g from reality. I think people worry to much about it, and I try not to think about it much, because as Admiral Ackbar says: "It's a trap."

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  21. #21
    TrueNorth Strong & Fierce Princess Chantal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karren Hutton View Post
    I know I've passed when they start shoveling dirt on my coffin!
    You puck hog

  22. #22
    Member sue ellan's Avatar
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    passing

    maybe this dont qualfy but i was in a check out line. there was a little boy about two yrs old and he looked me smiled the biggest smile. i think he thought was a grandma. it sure made my day.

    sue ellan

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  23. #23
    Silver Member Jilmac's Avatar
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    I have mentioned it before that I believe passing is nothing more than blending in. I certainly don't try to fool anybody into thinking I'm a female but I do try to emulate the ones I observe when I'm out and about. My voice is a dead giveaway to my masculinity and I've gotten some double takes from people whan they hear me speak. I have been told by many of my friends (guys and gals) that I'm passable because of my ability to blend in.

    I don't put a lot of emphasis on passing, if I do, great! If I don't, so what? I'm a guy who enjoys wearing women's clothes, accessories, and makeup. Most people don't have a problem with it, and those who do, it's their hang up and not mine.
    Luv and Jill


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  24. #24
    Adventuress Kate Simmons's Avatar
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    Well, it's great if we do but I don't how it really matters all that much myself.
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  25. #25
    Carole carhill2mn's Avatar
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    "Passing" is so difficult to define and is somewhat subjective. IMHO, being accepted as the person that you are portraying is a better gauge.
    As to the butcher saying "you guys", I would not worry about it. My two daughters and many other people use that expression regardless of the gender that they are addressing.
    Hugs, Carole

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