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Thread: Most common reason for failing to pass

  1. #26
    Transman Andy66's Avatar
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    Movement is one of the things I notice most. Moving too much like a man is a clue, but acting "girlier" than a real girl is a dead giveaway. Be careful not to overact.

  2. #27
    Silver Member kellycan27's Avatar
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    Definitions..

    Kate

    Passing is an attempt to do just that, Pass as a woman. You had FFS because although, according to you.. you looked good, people could still tell, and your wish was for people not to be able to tell... To be perfectly honest it seems to me that passing to others is "fitting in" with you. Semantics is all that is.
    I may be wrong, but it seems to me that what you are saying is that it is more important to be able to (pass,fit in) for someone who is Transsexual, rather than someone who is a cross dresser, because as a transsexual you are more exposed? Like it's don't worry about passing, it's not important, but yet you don't seem to be practicing what you are preaching. Passsing or fitting in is not everything true,and not everyone or even most will be able to achieve it, but getting as close as possible sure does go a long way towards being comfortable out there.. just like fitting in is important to you. I think that for a lot of the cders it not so important to be thought of as a female, more to be able to do their thing without the fear of being read, or ridiculed, or laughed at. And there are some who actually would like to be able to pass as a woman.

    Kelly
    Last edited by kellycan27; 01-17-2010 at 03:02 AM.
    "one day I'll fly away..... leave all this to yesterday"

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  3. #28
    Tricia Dale tricia_uktv's Avatar
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    Its all about confidence and attitude but the big irony... As soon as I had made up in my mind that it didn't matter if I passed; I passed better. Work that one out.
    I strut my stuff, I feel so proud,
    I need to shout, to scream out loud,
    I am Tricia I am she,
    I am who I want to be

    http://tricia-dale.blogspot.com/

  4. #29
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    Everything said here is true however one thing that cannot be emphasized enough is to dress appropriately for the situation. How many women do you see at the grocery store on Saturday morning in a short dressy skirt with 4" heels? I found out very early on that if one dresses appropriately that people are more accepting, except teen aged girls. One will almost always solicit giggles and whispers from ths group.

  5. #30
    Aspiring Member Blaire's Avatar
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    Biggest thing to me is worrying too much about passing. If you paint a big enough target on yourself, someone's bound to hit it.
    Life is simple math: Expectations - Realisations = Disappointments.
    Tell ya what... I won't be too easily annoying, if you won't be too easily annoyed!
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  6. #31
    Junior Member missygatv's Avatar
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    Daylight kills me... for starters I have a pretty thick beard so I need a pretty significant amount of makeup. This sort of does it as far as daytime outings. I don't really care much if people stare, but if I can help it I avoid it.

    At night, in a bar, proper makeup and hair, nice outfit... You will need a second look... I promise!

    XOXO

  7. #32
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    Maddie & Cindy I agree with both of you. I was getting a facial last week,and I asked the GG for an honest appraisal of what I needed to do to blend in. She told me, " stand up straight with no slouch,head up ,eyes looking forward,look at people instead of away and slow down the walk and take slow deliberate steps. " IMO few of us will actually pass,but we can blend in"

  8. #33
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    You know, not that I still don't get nervous when I go out but I have gotten past the worry about passing. My nervousness is caused from the fear of being recognized, not having people recognize that I am a male. I take care to put on an appropriate amount of make up and dress to my age and wear what I should when I am going out but if someone pays enough attention, and it doesn't take too much, they will recognize my flaws.

    If this was a multiple choice reason why I don't pass, my answer would be (d) "all of the above". I have let my hair grow out; long for a male but on the short side for a female, so I have stopped wearing wigs. Once I got past worrying about what other people thought I have enjoyed myself a lot more and I have even gone to going out in daylight! OMG.......LOL!

    Don't get me wrong, I don't think that I will ever pass: 6'2", 220 lbs., size 12's and palm a basketball. That alone puts me in a pretty small percentage of the female population. I mind my own business, like any other female out there and I survive.

  9. #34
    Silver Member Rogina B's Avatar
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    Have a thick skin!!

    Make your most believable presentation,[mind,body,and movement] have a thick skin,and ENJOY YOURSELF! Also,leave any of your fetish wear in your closet unless you are headed to "the club".

  10. #35
    Miss Conception Karren H's Avatar
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    Got to be wearing a bra on the outside of your clothes!!! Or wearing 3 bras and 2 chic shapers.... That would do it for sure.
    Current Obsession - Breasts and Lingerie!

    .......My Photos

  11. #36
    Member Sophie_C's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LauraCassidy View Post
    Not that I care that much if I'm frequently read while I'm out en femme (btw I just love this site - sooooooo addictive!!!! And all the new Girlfriends I've made ) but what are the most commonly cited reasons (not to sound too academic about things!) for failing to pass. The reason I ask is while I was out en femme one night I could see a group of teenage girls coming towards me on the foot-path. They only started to notice "it's a man" when they were two feet away from me (And then they started giggling and laughing which I didn't mind of course!) I would have thought they would have noticed much sooner than that.

    I have been crossdressing privately for the last 10 years but ever since I first (feel the fear and do it anyway) got brave and went out en femme I began to think about all the many and varied subtle differences between the male and female forms besides the obvious ones. And there are a lot of them.

    Much larger hands
    Much larger noses
    Waist/hips
    Legs/knees
    Much much larger shoulders
    and probably more I haven't realized yet...

    If you are a 31 year old guy like me I think your best chance is trying to pass as a 50 year-old?

    What you you think?

    Laura
    You're starting to get it. It's IMPOSSIBLE to pass without transitioning, and even with that, it may take some surgery to get over how masculized your body has become with 31 years of testosterone running though your veins.

    If you really want to be happy and aren't TS, just learn to 'own' that you are a TV/CD (that's where the 'confidence' comes in) and accept that you will be seen as such. If you are confident in yourself, the 'problems' will be negated, and you'll get a far more positive reaction. But know that many, many people will never been seen as a woman without hormones AND surgery, period.
    Last edited by Sophie_C; 01-17-2010 at 11:36 AM.

  12. #37
    Member adrienner99's Avatar
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    failing to pass

    I think there could be a dozen reasons, depending on the individual, such as:

    Facial hair
    Broad shoulders
    Bushy eyebrows
    Bad skin
    Bad choice of clothes or makeup. (We all go overboard too often.)
    Phony or cheap looking wigs
    General build and height
    Lack of hips and bust
    Confidence and voice

    Consider this: I often see women in the grocery store wearing jeans, a t-shirt and sneakers. They often wear no makeup at all. Yet they are obviously female. Their hair, their build, their arched eyebrows and generally feminine complexion make them unmistakably female.

    Bottom line is I don't thnk many will ever really pass. So what? I can't run a four-minute mile, but I still love to run...

  13. #38
    The Girl Next Door windycissy's Avatar
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    It's not impossible to pass without hormones and surgery, i'ts just extremely difficult if you're tall and built like a linebacker...confidence is key, but it won't matter much if your look screams man in a dress. If you're physically within the range, then all those little tricks with makeup, flattering clothes etc really pay off

  14. #39
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    You can tuck, bind, push, tape, use forms but a male face is a male face. Even with make up on it is hard to change. Especially the profile.

  15. #40
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    I think the main reason I dont pass is that most people do not have visual impairments. But on the other hand it must be something in the Michigan water because people at least are respectful while I'm out. Cant ask for more than that.

  16. #41
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    alot of what i see is going on with alot of crossdressers online in there vidieos is that there nor dressing apropriatly for the conditions,
    look around u, how many women do u see doing laundry in highheels, or shopping in a prom dress or club wear, women enjoy being comfertable, jeans tshirts nice looking sweaters and such, iv seen alot of gg tall women that still were heals and they normally have bigger hands if there that tall and some have broader shoulders,

    the other thing is the boots no female i know goes out in gogo boots or the super thick heals unless ther a very gothic person or a stripper

    why so many crossdressers try to were this stuff and fit in is beyond me cause even the women comment on how they would never where that or shes such a ****,
    not every moment in a womens life is a dress up moment
    dont get me wrong theres a difference in looking good and looking fancy

    anouther thing is if u walk like a man your gana come off as a butch female or obvious male in womens clothes just look at how butch females dress and youl see none of them wear a dress and talk like a dude even they know when there in a dress you dont act or do certian things (even though you hardly ever see a butch girl in a dress or dressed up )
    alot of times i wonder if crossdressers are just wanting to be caught or there not informed on the proper style a women weres i know im not dressing up like im 50 just to say im female in public im not even thirty i want to look somewhat close to my age

  17. #42
    Psyco Roller Derby Doll. Katesback's Avatar
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    Good point. The other thing I see often with CDs is they might dress correctly for the occasion but wear clothing that is sooo old that it screams 70s or 80s.

    If ya want to look good ya got to also look in style.

  18. #43
    Diamond Member Persephone's Avatar
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    I do have the advantages of size (5'7" tall/170 cm) and age (50+) going for me but I will bet dollars to donuts that we could be shopping in the same department at the same store and you wouldn't see anything other than a woman.

    I see a lot of whining and complaining here and frankly, while I genuinely sympathize with the girls here that are just too big or too guy like, for the rest there is a message -- get off of your butt and work at it.

    Adrianner99 posted a very interesting list of items, for example.

    Facial hair
    Broad shoulders
    Bushy eyebrows
    Bad skin
    Bad choice of clothes or makeup. (We all go overboard too often.)
    Phony or cheap looking wigs
    General build and height
    Lack of hips and bust
    Confidence and voice


    Except for build and height, every one of the others can be worked on. We live in an age of lasers that can minimize facial hair, lasers that can clear up many skin problems, plastic surgeons who can get rid of droopy eyelids, raise eyebrows, and restore hair, and medicines and shampoos that can help keep the head hair you've got.

    There are voice training programs that you can download for free, a few more for nominal cost, and, if you have the dough, you can have a professional voice coach.

    A couple of years of "homework" can teach you to move gracefully, to hold your head up, to smile, and to glide comfortably through "girl world."

    So unless you're genuinely built like a linebacker (and, again, I can understand the terrible situation they find themselves in) the rest is up to you.

    You want to whine? You want to make excuses? Or you want to put in the effort that is really requaired to "pass"?
    "If you are living the life you want to live you've successfully transitioned to being the person you want to be." - Eryn.

    "If you truly care about me you should damn well want for me what I want for myself" - Michael Westen (Burn Notice)

    -.-. --.-/-.-. --.-/-.-. -../ Persephone™ and Persephone™ are trademarks of Persephone herself, accept no substitutes. The terms "en femme" and "en drab" originated with Marcia Sampson/Staylace (OBM).

  19. #44
    Duchess of Eyeliner Erica2Sweet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LauraCassidy View Post
    ...I began to think about all the many and varied subtle differences between the male and female forms besides the obvious ones. And there are a lot of them.

    Much larger hands
    Much larger noses
    Waist/hips
    Legs/knees
    Much much larger shoulders
    and probably more I haven't realized yet...

    If you are a 31 year old guy like me I think your best chance is trying to pass as a 50 year-old?

    What you you think?

    Laura
    I'd say your observations regarding the physical differences in men and women as far as John Q. Public is concerned is right on. Many of the points you mentioned can be addressed by making smart clothing choices when one goes out in public. Picking certain styles of clothing can mask imperfect areas and give the illusion of a more feminine form. Just watch "What Not To Wear" to see how this works.

    As its been mentioned if you want to pass or at least want to reduce your chances of drawing negative attention, then of course you'll want to dress your age, and carry yourself with as much confidence as you can muster.

    I'm currently 35 years old, and I do dress my age when I go out, but there's no way I could ever pass as a 50 year old woman, nor would I ever try.
    Last edited by Erica2Sweet; 01-17-2010 at 04:52 PM.

  20. #45
    Gold Member Helen_Highwater's Avatar
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    If you go to You Tube and search for crossdresser public you’ll get a number of videos of CD’s out and about. Some not surprisingly are far more convincing than others but it’s little to do with dress or makeup. There’s a saying, “If you feel lucky, you’ll be lucky”. Well change that to, “If you feel womanly, you’ll be womanly”. If your wish is to pass then for me it’s about movement and posture and becoming the alter ego that is your feminine self.
    Don’t please get me wrong, for those who have the inner strength to be out there and to not be concerned how others perceive them, where passing is not of paramount importance, I’m not throwing any stones. But for those to whom it does matter, in creating the illusion the devil is in the detail. So yes I suppose I echo the sentiments of many others in this thread, it’s being confident, having the poise and style and presence and a myriad of other things to carry it off. Anyone know where I can buy any of those things?

  21. #46
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    The whole passing thing can drive ya crazy, cause as i have said before, you dont always know if you pass. Sometimes people give you a pass rather than you actually pass. I have been referred to many more times as maam or miss than sir. Does that mean I am passing or does that mean people are just treating me with respect or that I confuse them. I am dressed womanlike so they figure maybe I should be referred to as such. Friday night for example I was asked by a man if I minded if he used the urinal while I was out at a local club. I was at the mirror doing my lipstick. I said oh its no problem the bathroom is unisex. He looked at me for a hard second and then said, "Oh your a crossdresser, ... hot" Well I had passed for a second or two until I opened my mouth or he looked harder at me or.... I didnt try to disguise my voice or anything. Just a fun experience in the gender bending world.

  22. #47
    Member Sophie_C's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.Susan View Post
    You can tuck, bind, push, tape, use forms but a male face is a male face. Even with make up on it is hard to change. Especially the profile.
    EXACTLY.

    Look, I will make it very simple for everyone. The human body develops in response to the hormones inside ourselves. People with estrogen and progesterone in typical GG levels will develop a lower hairline, softer jawline, very little of a brow ridge, a smaller nose shape, larger lips, eyes will be positioned slightly different, there will be more fat settled in different ways, there will be less musculature, the person will have a more soft, graceful neck (again, less musculature), a higher bodyfat percentile, with curves happening in a different way than men, broader hips, less body hair, smaller hands and feet, with less musculature all over, and probably a few more things I couldn't think of right now.

    The best makeup, binding and clothing in the world can't fix ANY of that. Even if a CD/TV gets her weight down to a GG's range with all of her musculature gone, she'll be without any curves, and her face will look more masculine, since being more gaunt, it'll show off all of the effects of testosterone, being: a higher hairline, stronger and bolder jawline, a stronger brow ridge, larger nose, different eye shape / position, less fat, and of what is there, settled in male ways, from head to toe, another layer of musculature, a stronger neck, shoulders, rib cage, more narrow hips, greater body hair, larger hands and feet, etc, etc.

    And, that's not even getting into scent, posture being impacted by physical composition and more.

    THAT is why I say people can not be passable without transitioning. In order to truly 'pass' to someone who isn't legally blind, all of the masculine effects of testosterone have to be either prevented (by transitioning as a teenager) or undone by a combination of hormones and surgery later on. And, the longer you take, the more will need to be undone through surgical means. To know the physical difference between the male and female form is instinctive, shown by these countless subtle differences and people know when it's off.

    Don't get me wrong - some people have good genetics which gives them a bit of a softer look, which they can work with, but they'll still have to do some work to be 'passable'.

    And, remember girls, many people who you may think are seeing you as a woman simply know what's up. They are just being good people and respecting our way of life.

    Know that I am not meaning to be at all disrespectful to anyone and saying anyone looks terrible. A CD/TV can be stunning and with some rare genetics can even come close to being seen as a bio woman. But, human instinct will have you 'read' instantly and people do know.

    You CAN be a gorgeous, very, very feminine crossdresser that all sorts of people adore. So, just 'own' it and not be the slightest bit ashamed of yourself! Respecting yourself brings about the respect of others, and if you always have in the back of your mind "hmm... do I or don't I pass?" it's going to make people feel less comfortable around you. So, just be yourself, and be proud. And, if you do want to transition since you know that is your true self, know that you can pass, with enough time and effort.

  23. #48
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    So you think 50 is old......Just you wait...till you are 49.....LOL Some of the best looking women on this site are over 60. All in fun....but it is so true!
    If you feel the need to explain yourself. Smile and Educate. Be proud of who you are!

    ."ALWAYS, SIT, SPIN, AND TUCK ONE FOOT BEHIND THE OTHER....NEVER CROSS YOUR LEGS"

    Emme as in "M"

  24. #49
    Senior Member Carly D.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sherri52 View Post
    The first reason is confidence. If you don't have it your lost from the start.
    Another reason other than what you have mentioned is that we tend to dress younger than we are, Another is that we overdress for the occasion. You should always dress your age and dress appropriately for the occasion.
    I agree, confidence plays a major role.. Looking ****ty wouldn't help.. I went out dressed once and was in a somewhat public place and about five other people were there and that was five more than have ever seen me before that evening.. scarred?? TO DEATH but really not that much, I try to control that situation as much as I can..
    This is what I mean by "every guy can look like a girl from the right angles".. this is one of the first pictures of me dressed up.. very vague look.. almost fem...

  25. #50
    Aspiring Member Samantha_Smile's Avatar
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    Bad CDs can be seen daily on the streets of Manchester.
    Trampy makeup is the number one reason.
    That, or they havent plucked their eyebrows
    Walking with palms facing backwards, elbows out would make even nigella lawson look butch too, so avoid this.

    And stay away from tarty skirts and tops. Heels are fine, just walk right in them, dress sexy but classy...

    And get a pretty corset under your clothes.
    Samantha -x-

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