The importance of passing

[vetobob9]

I've seen a couple of threads on this and I curious as to how important it is to pass as a girl.
Why is it important?

[Super Amanda]

That depends on the person, IMO. It matters and is important to me because I am transitioning, and am going to be full time soon. Passing could be the difference between getting a job or not, or even being safer from violence and bigotry.

[Sarah Doepner]

I'm beginning to think it all depends on the individual. For some it is their goal and they do a very good job of that. However, some of us don't have the ability to pass and if we set that as our "gold standard", we are setting ourselves up to fail. I've said it a number of times that my expectation is to be "passed by" before they turn around and either suspect or know they've passed a crossdresser. That gives me a few steps head start and that's all I need.

[Stephanie Miller]

Everyone has a different reason. Just a short story first: Back when I was in college I had a very good friend that just happened to be black. One night we were sitting at the local pizza parlor when another person came up to Clayton and started talking and doing the buddy buddy thing. After he left Clayton had this very exasperated look, so I just had to ask why. What he said has carried with me through the rest of my crossdressing life. He said he really just wish people would treat him normal. He went on to explain that when he was with a group of his own color nobody treated anyone any different. But when outside of that group people had a tendency to either treat him special (in a better way) or more degraded. They just had a hard time treating him normal. (In the course of full disclosure let it be know I let him pay for the beer to show him I held no favoritism )
Now please don’t jump down my throat for being racist or feel like I’m ditzing people of color. Far from it. I am just paraphrasing the conversation as I remember it just to get a point across.
What he was getting at, I think, is the same way I (as Stephanie) gets treated when out in public. People either go overboard because they want to show that they are accepting (hip, in a way) or they completely take you to task and degrade. Very few just treat me as normal. Now on days that the stars align and I do indeed pass, (and you know when you do and when you really don’t), I get the feeling where I know I really was born in the wrong skin. I never really feel that I achieve passing, but at least I get to the point where I kid myself enough to think I do. And that……….. is when life is good.

[Natasha TG]

I put a lot of effort into the outfits, makeup, and female mannerisms; does that mean that I put a lot of emphasis on passing?

I do like to blend in - Initially going out I was really focused/hoping on not getting read, but after being out to shopping, restaurants, bars and clubs I am comfortable with myself and I am more interested in looking for reactions whether they are good or bad.

I have stopped practicing voice training falsetto for a few months now, right now I am just comfortable with my own voice and just soften it slightly.

I like it when GG's read my confidence and I tend to always strike up interesting conversations whether it is pure curisosty, complimenting me on my looks or just asking me out for a date

guys I have met on the other hand are split into 4 observations, homophobic, curiosity, bi-curiousity and guys trying to get to 2nd base

sorry to get offtopic - bottom line is I guess I strive to pass but not ultimately the goal for me

[kellycan27]

Very simply put.... Passing ( for me) is the ability to live my life just like everyone else, without being a curiosity, or seen as being "different."

Kel

[marcia pisch]

It is important if that is the way you want to live your life. It is not so important if you just want to dress in the privacy of your own home. That is something you have to choose for yourself.

[Sweet Jane]

my personal philosophy is that if passing as a female 100% of the is your measure, then you are bound to fail...what you do need to pass as, is a sane, rational, competent, reasonably 'normal' human being with values and morals that somewhat approach societal norms

by doing that people can accept your many more obvious 'faults' and the wee clues to your birth gender are totally overlooked if you can prove the above traits

i guess maybe 1 in a thousand of us will be able to pass flawlessly, the rest of us just have to make sure that by our actions we don't bring ourselves into disrepute.....

i guess the way many act or dress invites derision, and being the 'obvious' overt tgirls, they stigmatise the rest of us...most people never give me a second thought i'm sure, but that doesn't mean i 'pass'...it just means i 'conform'

[Alice Torn]

[SIZE="3"]If the team does not have much of a running game, then passing becomes very important![/SIZE]

[Rachel Morley]

It all depends on what you're looking for I guess. I mean to say, suppose I was TS and was also fully transitioned, post op SRS, and everything, I would want to pass as a girl all the time if possible.

However, I'm not TS. I'm CD, so while I do prefer to pass if I possibly can, if I fail, I do have a kinda get-out clause (or that's how I like to think if it) as if I get read I'll say to myself, "what do you expect? ... you're a dude! ... you're not even on hormones." In other words (in my own mind) I use my "only being a CDer" thought to help me when I'm feeling pressured or I put unrealistic expectations upon myself.

[NathalieX66]

I have fun with people taking a second look at me. This coming saturday will be round six in public for me, since the Great Purge of '99-09. I'm a clothes horse, and all I care is that I look good in them. The dynamics of human interaction is so much more fun this way.
I am (proudly) imperfect as anybody, and I have no interest or plans for HRT, or the knife of Dr. Osterhout in Montreal.

[docrobbysherry]

Everyone has a different reason. Just a short story first: Back when I was in college I had a very good friend that just happened to be black. One night we were sitting at the local pizza parlor when another person came up to Clayton and started talking and doing the buddy buddy thing. After he left Clayton had this very exasperated look, so I just had to ask why. What he said has carried with me through the rest of my crossdressing life. He said he really just wish people would treat him normal. He went on to explain that when he was with a group of his own color nobody treated anyone any different. But when outside of that group people had a tendency to either treat him special (in a better way) or more degraded. They just had a hard time treating him normal. (In the course of full disclosure let it be know I let him pay for the beer to show him I held no favoritism )
Now please don’t jump down my throat for being racist or feel like I’m ditzing people of color. Far from it. I am just paraphrasing the conversation as I remember it just to get a point across.
What he was getting at, I think, is the same way I (as Stephanie) gets treated when out in public. People either go overboard because they want to show that they are accepting (hip, in a way) or they completely take you to task and degrade. Very few just treat me as normal. Now on days that the stars align and I do indeed pass, (and you know when you do and when you really don’t), I get the feeling where I know I really was born in the wrong skin. I never really feel that I achieve passing, but at least I get to the point where I kid myself enough to think I do. And that……….. is when life is good.

My father used to explain it to me this way,
" Son, u need to be color blind. If u EVEN NOTICE a person is DIFFERENT, then, you're PREJUDICED! "

Black, yellow, foreign accent, passing. It's ALL THE SAME! If folks notice you're different, then, LIVE WITH IT! Or, stay at home!

[jenniferj]

As a result of genes and college football (many decades ago) it is unlikely that anyone who looks closely at me (6'2" 250lb) is not going to look again and realize that I am mostly a guy underneath.

My goal while out is to provide a comfortable enough image that few people look closely, and those that do notice how nicely I am dressed.

DSW (DearSweetWife) and I have discussed this many times, and I put forth the hope that the people who see the guy underneath will see that I am also a nice, non-threatening person and smile nicely. I don't go out much locally, but in NewYorkCity this seems pretty much to be the case.

I'd like to think that in my own way, I'm spreading tolerance and acceptance for us all. (But I also like to wear really pretty things)

-jj

[Nicole Erin]

Passing could be the difference between getting a job or not, or even being safer from violence and bigotry.

pretty much what I think.

[JiveTurkeyOnRye]

As others have said it does depend on the person. I personally don't really care much for the entire concept of passing and I even would go so far as to say sometimes I think it hurts us more than helps us, but everyone needs to find their own path so if passing is what makes others happy, who am I to tell them it shouldn't?

[Sandy Banks]

Being a Gemini, I have also wished to be someone else besides myself(totally cool with myself). By working on being the best Sandy I can helps me toward my goal and passing becomes part of that. And if I can lose 20 lbs. I'll be happier for both of me.

[Kate Simmons]

Depends on the person really and how they may feel it affects their self image and how others view them.

[sherri52]

The importance is to the individual. Some feel that in order to perceive themselves as a woman, they must be able to look, dress. sound, and act as a woman.
Be confident in how you feel and you will be who you want to be

[windycissy]

For many if not most, passing as a woman is a hopeless dream, and having the honesty to recognize that is important if you want to avoid embarrassment and worse...for the lucky ones who have been blessed with the physical attributes and are willing to work at it, passing opens a door to a whole new world, and I'm always surprised by this question. It's like if you were a terrific golfer and somebody asked you, "why do you feel the need to lower you handicap?" We, as guys, are competitive by nature, and if you have the chops to pass as a woman, it's only natural that you're going to want to take it as far as you can, and the ultimate measure is to be seen and treated like a woman.

[AllieSF]

I agree with Cissy. Even though I know that I will never pass all the time at a distance and probably never close up, I still am always trying to look better, more natural and still have fun while not over laboring with looking perfect. As Cissy can testify, my main thrill and high from all this is to be able to go out and just be me, the person inside my body no matter how dressed. It is not so much about passing, probably closer to blending and not looking like the complete fool.

[Hope]

As a result of genes and college football (many decades ago) it is unlikely that anyone who looks closely at me (6'2" 250lb) is not going to look again and realize that I am mostly a guy underneath.

At 6'2" I understand your concerns, though I have pushed off some of my pudge and I am down to 136 and dropping if the Wii is to be believed. But that is beside the point.

When I finished up with my first therapy session with my gender therapist - one in which I bemoaned my size as an excuse for not passing - the wife and I went grocery shopping and encountered a woman who was at least 6'4", and since I have been paying more attention I have seen more of them.

My mother used to tell me (I'm not sure why) that there are no ugly women in the world, only lazy women. Having spent a decade in the Midwest, I think she is likely right.

Here is the point: We CAN pass. Will it take more work? You betcha. But it is definitely possible. Don't let your height get you down.

[tamarav]

[SIZE=4]This topic always leaves me feeling a bit like an outsider. I don't plan on passing and I don't plan on blending in. My goal is to look the best I can and let others decide if they are going to make anything of it.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4][/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]I worked at Macy's over the holidays at the fragrance and cosmetic counters. I met and talked with many customers, sold thousands of dollars worth of cosmetics and fragrances to hundreds of people. I did not care what people thought or worried about what they might say. You simply can't do that and remain happy. And believe me, I was very happy![/SIZE]
[SIZE=4][/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]Simply be who you are and enjoy it, what is the alternative?[/SIZE]

[RachelPortugal]

My father used to explain it to me this way,
" Son, u need to be color blind. If u EVEN NOTICE a person is DIFFERENT, then, you're PREJUDICED! "

Black, yellow, foreign accent, passing. It's ALL THE SAME! If folks notice you're different, then, LIVE WITH IT! Or, stay at home!

My sentiments exactly.

I feel that passing is probably more important as a TS than as a CD/TV like myself.

Personally, as a CD/TV I am dressing as a woman, made up as a woman but do not expect to always pass as a woman. From a distance I may pass, but close up it would probably be obvious to most people that I am a CD/TV. It is the reaction that is perhaps more important, and provided that it is not hostile I can live with it.

Luv

Rachael
XXX

[Sarah_new]

I put a lot of effort into the outfits, makeup, and female mannerisms; does that mean that I put a lot of emphasis on passing?

I do like to blend in - Initially going out I was really focused/hoping on not getting read, but after being out to shopping, restaurants, bars and clubs I am comfortable with myself and I am more interested in looking for reactions whether they are good or bad.

I have stopped practicing voice training falsetto for a few months now, right now I am just comfortable with my own voice and just soften it slightly.

I like it when GG's read my confidence and I tend to always strike up interesting conversations whether it is pure curisosty, complimenting me on my looks or just asking me out for a date

guys I have met on the other hand are split into 4 observations, homophobic, curiosity, bi-curiousity and guys trying to get to 2nd base

sorry to get offtopic - bottom line is I guess I strive to pass but not ultimately the goal for me

This reply from Natasha kind sums up my attitude to passing, but I'll explain in my own words as well.

For me, whatever I do in my life I always strive to do it to the best of my abilities and then a little better next time. So with that view, yes I am trying to pass. I do try and put an outfit together that looks appropriate and is co-ordinated. I do get annoyed with my lack of skill at make up at times, but I remove and re-apply. When I'm out en femme I'm consciously thinking about my movements etc.

But do I pass? Well, probably not close up and when interacting. I honestly believe that from a distance I can and do pass.

Have I had any problems? No, fortunately I haven't, but that may also being due to taking care of where and when to do go out. This also reminds me of my MAC makeover and my good friend make-up artist who said to me, "if anyone has a problem with you like this, then it is their problem not yours and whilst you're here they'll have me to answer to first". Her other comments have been "good for you" when she has she me out etc. She has been one of my biggest confidence builders in all of this.

So to answer the original question, yes passing is important because for me it is a measure of how good a job I'm doing of this, but it is not a do or die goal. I have no intention of transitioning so from that perspective it's not critical, but just me trying my best.

[Renee_E]

It is a wonderful dream for me but not a goal. I am sure I couldn't pass completely; too many masculine features. I might get away as a "that might be a girl " at a distance. But it is just not important to me.