CD Wife...Could It Be That I Can Relate After All?

[Satrana]

Just wanted to share, since I feel I may have had something of a revelation here.

Congrats on getting what CDing is all about. Being able to correspond the freedom modern women have to integrate whatever level of masculinity they want without feeling guilt is the best way to understand what the CDer is feeling and why he acts the way he does. It is not a complex and difficult subject matter after all. In fact it is very straightforward.

If you listen to women who reject their CD partners, they invariably deny any connection with their own masculine wardrobe and interests and the CDing of their partners. In truth they are in denial that the two behaviors are the same even of their implementation turns out to have different.
Some GGs just want to hold onto the sexual stereotype of a masculine man and so refute the notion that he should be interested in expressing femininity.

CDs are just the mirror image of tomboys but have been driven into the closet by society's prejudices. I have suggested that we drop the term crossdresser and use tomgirl instead so people can grasp the connection. Even CDs would understand their behavior better if they stopped thinking their dressing was something weird or special.

To Leigh58 - the reason why CDs want to wear breast forms and aim for emulating a woman is because we lack the integration of our masculine and feminine selves. Without the ability to be feminine growing up, we had to hid away our feminine nature in a dark closet where it became compartmentalized as a guilty, shameful secret. Being unable to openly express our true nature, our femininity lived within our dreams and fantasies where we imagined ourselves as beautiful fully formed women. This is a great mental trick, men cannot be feminine but if I was a woman I could indulge my femininity to my heart's content without guilt or criticism. Thus emulation becomes a ticket to freely express our needs which as men is prohibited.

Over time this female persona becomes more real and developed. Our self image is not of a man wearing a dress but of our imagined female persona in a dress. Many CDs hate the look of a man in a dress for this reason. So what started out as a coping mechanism eventually becomes integrated and inseparable with our feminine projection.

[ReineD]

CDs are just the mirror image of tomboys but have been driven into the closet by society's prejudices. I have suggested that we drop the term crossdresser and use tomgirl instead so people can grasp the connection. Even CDs would understand their behavior better if they stopped thinking their dressing was something weird or special.

Hi Satrana!

I would agree with this, if the tomgirls wanted to present as boys wearing girl's' clothing, even while enjoying stereotypical girls' activities like sewing and cooking (although clothing designers and chefs have traditionally been male), and if when wearing femme clothes they wouldn't be attracted to men. But this is not the case. (Most? Or many?) CDs want to experience "being" a woman, and all that it entails .. having breasts and a woman's body, hiding their male genitals so they can wear the type of clothes that women wear to attract men, experiencing a woman's orgasm and other biological functions, and being seen by others and treated as a biological woman. And they enjoy grooming themselves with the nails, hair, makeup, and sexy clothing, in the manner that women do if they want to attract men.

On the other hand, tomboys know, accept, and like being girls, and they are attracted to boys .. they just don't like wearing dresses and playing with dolls. And, they don't want to have penises nor do they want others to believe they are boys. I think it is the other girls' behaviors they rebel against. I was like this when I was little. I didn't think it fair that boys in our society seemed to be valued more than girls, they were thought to be smarter, they were given more advantages, they were allowed to do things that girls weren't allowed to do, and they were higher in the social pecking order. They had more power than girls. I thought the typical girl was silly, empty headed, and weak because she bought into all of this and she played up to the idea that she needed to pretend to be weaker than she was in order to get boys to like her. As a child, I much preferred to be friends with girls who were stronger and more confident, like I was. But I've always been proud to be a girl. Usually a tomboy will grow up to appreciate being a woman and in most cases she will learn to appreciate some of the grooming rituals that are customary in order to attract men.

Isn't this the difference between the two different scenarios? CDs are not proud to be men? I know that many (most?) have said here they do not think themselves attractive as males and some even go so far as to despise their male appearance. Or, maybe the lines are more blurry than we think between CDs and TSs. I don't know. It is hard to tell since so many CDs do not like to label themselves.

I agree that it is not acceptable in our society for boys to express softer feelings and wear dresses, and this is why CDs construct a separate female identity. But, as I mentioned previously, boys are given more advantages and from the onset they are thought to be "better" than girls, so society more readily accepts (since the 60's) that a girl elevates herself if she wants to adopt a more masculine approach (as long as she still wants to be a girl), while boys are thought to lower themselves if they want to emulate girls.

Our society needs to come to regard both men and women as being equal on all levels except in physical strength. Until this happens, there will be inconsistent expectations of both genders. Does this make sense?

... and, if we manage to attain truly equal roles, if gender roles become interchangeable as to who should stay home and raise the child and who should go out and brave the world, then perhaps in a few hundred thousand years through the process of natural selection, both men and women will be able to bear children. Or, we will cease to have separate genders and we will become monoecious. We would then all become "wems". ... OK, so I never said I was a biologist.

[Satrana]

But this is not the case. (Most? Or many?) CDs want to experience "being" a woman, and all that it entails ..

I agree but the stage of wanting to emulate a woman IMO is a by-product of the closeting and the subsequent development of a separate feminine persona. I believe all boys begin off as tomgirls. Myself, I did not begin my journey by imaging myself actually being a woman. That line of thought developed later as my femininity developed within my limitless fantasies where I could become a full bodied woman. I cannot believe I would have ventured there if I had had the freedom to dress from the beginning. It would never have occurred to me.

Isn't this the difference between the two different scenarios? CDs are not proud to be men?

Yes firstly I believe the initial step on the journey is an unconscious rejection of the brutality of becoming a man. We instinctively looked towards the comforting safety of femininity that does not require us to be brutalized. We learn to love our adventures as a feminine persona and distance ourselves from our maleness. The rudeness and violence that surrounds young males convinces us that women are superior. In time we understand our masculine appearance as the real mask which hides our feminine persona.

Our society needs to come to regard both men and women as being equal on all levels except in physical strength. Until this happens, there will be inconsistent expectations of both genders. Does this make sense?

Yes agree very much but I think this needs a masculinist movement to emerge to allow the male gender to be scrutinized and amended. Indeed the whole idea behind gender roles needs to be challenged. To me parents should not assign a gender to their babies, the child should choose for itself, but that idea is many years away from being taken seriously.

[Rianna Humble]

But this is not the case. (Most? Or many?) CDs want to experience "being" a woman, and all that it entails ..

I agree but the stage of wanting to emulate a woman IMO is a by-product of the closeting and the subsequent development of a separate feminine persona. I believe all boys begin off as tomgirls. Myself, I did not begin my journey by imaging myself actually being a woman.

So in your case, your theory probably holds true, but not in all cases.

My earliest memory - before even any memory of wearing female clothing - is of dreaming night after night that I would one day walk down the aisle in a white wedding dress as a complete woman. I knew I wasn't meant to be a man although for one reason or another it took me another 40 some years to come to terms with who I am.

[Jonianne]

......I didn't think it fair that boys in our society seemed to be valued more than girls, they were thought to be smarter, they were given more advantages, they were allowed to do things that girls weren't allowed to do, and they were higher in the social pecking order.....

Reine, I remember in my grade school the opposite was true. Girls were very much considered to be smarter than the boys. I remember the teacher saying so. In all subjects the girls ruled and everyone knew it. I was pretty smart and did well, but rarely scored higher than the girls. I sure envied them.

I agree but the stage of wanting to emulate a woman IMO is a by-product of the closeting and the subsequent development of a separate feminine persona. I believe all boys begin off as tomgirls. Myself, I did not begin my journey by imaging myself actually being a woman. That line of thought developed later as my femininity developed within my limitless fantasies where I could become a full bodied woman. I cannot believe I would have ventured there if I had had the freedom to dress from the beginning. It would never have occurred to me.

Yes firstly I believe the initial step on the journey is an unconscious rejection of the brutality of becoming a man. We instinctively looked towards the comforting safety of femininity that does not require us to be brutalized. We learn to love our adventures as a feminine persona and distance ourselves from our maleness. The rudeness and violence that surrounds young males convinces us that women are superior. In time we understand our masculine appearance as the real mask which hides our feminine persona.....

Renie, my experience has been similar to what Satrana is saying. I have used the same term "tomgirl" since childhood about myself. I started at age 7, coincendantly at the same time I was watching the males in my life and I promised myself I would never be like them and took on the females in my life as my role models. I had NO desire to be a female (back then). I just wanted to wear some of the cloths they wore, to be close to them. I still do not imitate having breasts, to me that would be disrespectful to women (almost sacreligious in my mind, although I certainly do not judge other cd's).
I accept being a male and do not pretend to be a female. Although there are many male attributes I do despise, there are some that I have that I am proud of. I have never shaved my legs (wear thick tights) and have always been proud of my strong hairy legs as well as my body and arm hair (my kids pulling on it).

Actually, the females I have always related to the most were tomboys. I wanted to be around the girls that loved the outdoors and sports, I was OK with them being better than me. I never was attracted to sissy girls nor wanted to be a sissy boy myself. But I did want the freedom tomboys had in being able to cross over to the other gender when they wanted and still be a girl. I wanted to do exactly the same thing, cross over to doing female stuff when I wanted and then go back to being a boy (which I loved as a child - toy trains and toy soldiers for me!)

As Satrana said, years later certain fantasies developed (ie. AGP), but I still never felt I was or wanted to permantly become female. Like it or not, I am still too much a guy. I think the crossdressing I do reflects my feelings. Want I wanted to do as a child was to wear a dress I liked (jumper) and go walking in the woods or park. That is pretty much the extent of what I do now. Also I loved how the tomboys had their hair, usually in a bobed paige style and that is how I wear my hair now. I am happy just being me, a guy who loves to identify "with" women, but not "as" a woman, because I am not.

[Josephine 1941]

Hi Happy Wife, First Carhill2 said something that hit home with me, TOMBOY. My GG has said to me that she was a tomboy growing up. We now are a complete couple like your self. Melissa and I are the same size in cloths and shoes. She had study in India and until she met me she could not express her male side. Her master had taught the concept of male and female in one person and to inbrace it. I had told her right from the start that I was a C D, she said she had no problem with it because she was from New York city. Right off the bat we had a problem she wore more of my cloths then I did. I had better fashion sense, as she was a widow and most of her cloths were black. We now go out as sisters, been to P town 3 times and Key West many too. I can be dressed 24/7 if I want and a little interesting thing has happened to me. I tend to dress sloppy as women often do, I will have just a bra and a tank top shorts or demin skirt no wig but hair combed forward. Lite lipstick an a little eye liner stud ear rings and flats. I guess I have come full circle. Love to meet you 2 some day I bet we could have a great time. Josephine

[HappyWife42]

Even CDs would understand their behavior better if they stopped thinking their dressing was something weird or special

That's a good point! My husband has told me that when he is CDing he doesn't want it to be treated like a special occasion. He just wants to be treated like I always treat him, because he is still himself.

[stresskimo]

this is a great post and the responses are fantastic, im ver new to this (SO) and this has really helped my understanding ALOT.

i never realised before how we GG's take for granted that we can wear whatever we want, if i want to wear jeans and a tshirt i can and no one bats an eye lid - although i am a very girly girly and love looking nice and girly but sometimes i just want to relax (and also sometimes wear my bfs boxers and tshirts - because theyre comfy!) i never thought that what he does is exactly the same!

thankyou!

[lavistaa62]

In some ways I thought ReineD's post supported the "tomboy" view originally proposed and further explained why some CD (though perhaps not TS, can't speak for them) act as they act. If you took all the reasons you expressed for tomgirls wanting to act like boys and reversed them, that is why I would initially anyway, think of women as role models without actually wanting to BE (as opposed to LOOKING) like one.

Those aspects of GG or anyone really who reacts to all things emotionally, panics when reason might prevail, isn't interested in "how things work" or are primarily concerned with social appearances are are not attractive to me nor something I try to emulate. Those those qualities might be considered feminine by some definitions. I prefer the tomgirls who've grown into womanhood but still embrace that playful, overall wearing side of themselves.

I love seeing my wife in the garden, her hands covered in dirt, acting with confidence and decisiveness or acting deliberately through deduction- again what might be called masculine characteristics if one were to succumb to stereotypes.

For myself then attractiveness lies in the blend rather than the pure ingredients.

[Satrana]

Those aspects of GG or anyone really who react to all things emotionally or panic when reasons might prevail or aren't interested in "how things work" or are primarily concerned with social appearances still are not attractive to me those those qualities might be considered feminine by some definitions. I prefer the tomgirls who've grown but still embrace that side of themselves.

When I hear men complain about their wives, it is almost almost for these types of reasons. There is no doubt in my mind that most men prefer a tomboy partner - they want someone who is strong, capable, confident and independently minded. It makes dealing with day to day issues so much easier and should make for a more stable and satisfactory long term relationship.

If many men prefer a woman who is half masculine and half feminine, then I think we can assume the same is true for women. I frequently hear women say how much they like men with a softer side. The only problem is when women discover that their man's feminine qualities manifest themselves in CDing, then ignorance and prejudice can kick in and it becomes a big deal.

[HappyWife42]

To reply to the previous two posts, I would agree that a combination of all of the stereotypical traits in each partner makes for a more balanced and healthy relationship. My husband and I are equal partners, in every sense of the word. He is genetically male, I genetically female, yet our roles flip flop in our household. There are times we each do things that are stereotypical of our genders, but just as many times as we don't.
I think the reason that GG SO's are so upset and disturbed by CDing is the fear that they are going to lose their man. That was a thought that went through my head in the beginning.."Does he want surgery? Is he attracted to men? Will I never get to be the woman in our relationship?" These things are scary to a straight GG because it could mean the end of the relationship. Of course lack of understanding, which leads to fear, which leads to frustration, which leads to anger can cause a woman to lash out at her husband for the CDing. I realized I was not so much upset about the CDing as I was feeling neglected in other ways. Once I talked it over with my husband and really understood that he was not gay, or wanting a sex change operation, etc, or that he was threatening my role as the woman in our relationship (quite the opposite...it's a nice feeling to know that he admires me so much he wants to be like me!), my fear subsided. And then when I realized how much it all made sense in terms of the comparison to my own experiences, I no longer was afraid of losing my husband, but instead excited to embrace this other side of him that he has been afraid to share with me.

[NikiMichelle]

I came out to my wife 10 years ago and since then I have been able to cross dress much more than ever before. As my wife has become more and more tolerant of my cd'ing I continue to feel less and less guilty about me being a CD and dressing around her.

I'd like to think that in the past 10 years she has come to see that me being a CD has not been detrimental to the health of our marriage. I do however, go through stages of really wanting to discuss with my wife my world of CD'ing. In doing so, I try very hard to not "transfer" my issues/problems from myself to her as that I feel is not fair to her. I have also committed to her that I would not let my CD'ing interfere with things we want to do together. For example if I really want to dress up for an evening and she suggests to go to a movie, going to the movie wins.

Things have continued to improve with respect to my cross dressing and I feel we are at a stage now where our marriage is growing stronger as we have had to learn to respect each other more and more.

[Satrana]

Of course lack of understanding, which leads to fear, which leads to frustration, which leads to anger can cause a woman to lash out at her husband for the CDing.

Kudos to you for being able to see the big picture and being able to analyze your own behavior and your partner's. However your story is not that typical. Large numbers of women reject the notion of CDing and so refuse to be educated and do not reach out for support. As a result they remain stuck in the initial stages of anger and fear and do not progress. The CD partner, anxious his relationship is heading for the rocks, accepts any measure of tolerance he can negotiate no matter how restrictive. However after a while the CD invariably becomes resentful and breaks the rules which leads to another confrontation. This scenario gets repeated again and again destroying the love and trust between them.

I hope you will stick around and help our members find ways to avoid these pitfalls. It takes a clear mind like yourself to get the message across.

[MissyW]

you got it

[sonia_dargency]

This is because I know that my wife as the potential of coming to such understanding that I don't give up.

She is a very smart person and is not judgemental at all - she is of the kind whose situation never match any check box in a form, she always lived on the edge of society. yet she has a mental block about CD, and I blame myself for that.

Thank you HappyWife for your cristal clear expose. I will definitely use that to lighten her way.

Sonia