OK, HRT might not enlarge my breasts without T-blockers which might make it impossible to function as a maleOriginally Posted by Kaitlyn Michele
; that would be a showstopper.
OK, HRT might not enlarge my breasts without T-blockers which might make it impossible to function as a male
At about six months you become sterile. And remember, your results may vary. Like Michele I felt an almost instant placebo effect of 'rightness' and while whatever the physical effects may come I've ALLWAYS been more interested in how HRT would make me feel... would I get in touch with other emotions? I have found that I also couldn't go topless anywhere anymore ( I have a sister who insists that I only come as her brother... Hmmm, I wonder what she would do if I walked out into her back yard and used the jacuzzi in nothing but a speedo? ) I have had some great hair reduction results with my body hair. I've had about a fifty percent in the dark, thick hairs on my arms, legs , and around my navel. Heck, I stopped shaving around the navel and arrms, I know women with more and darker hair than what I have now. So, results may vary... is a true statement. AND I'm only half way through, it takes about three years for all of the changes to be complete. So, I'm a patient girl, But I AM a girl, and THAT'S what get's me through those moments of depression... Carol
Do you just shoot blanks, or do you get ED and can't perform as a male? How do ******** do both; are their breasts the result of surgery? I want to appear as a woman and have natural boobs, but be able to function as a male when my panties are off.
If you want to have a big hard c00c%, then estrogen is probably not for you. It will lead to both sterility and ED.
"I don't mind living in a man's world, as long as I can be a woman in it." — Marilyn Monroe
gawd..you are such a man...
you want some natural boobs???
anyway...i'll be honest....i have been on hrt for about 20 months.. i have erections, i still get unwanted erections when i'm walking around in jeans, ugh....and i can easily orgasm, and it feels better than ever (although i beleive this is probably because the hormones help me to feel "right" about being a sexual person, so i'm not guilty and ashamed every time i orgasm)....either no or very little liquid comes out, and i could care less...
my best friend on HRT after 6 months can barely get her penis to move...and when she does she says it hurts alot like a sharp knifing pain when she is hard, and it hurts her so much she cant wait for it to get flaccid...i experienced this very early in my HRT, and then it went away, it hurt BAD...for me it went away..for her it didnt..
so as you can see...there is absolutely NO way to predict it
IF you are doing it for sex (and based on your comments you certainly are)...then the ONLY sensible way to go is breast augments...you could also spend a TON of money and get Facial surgery and you can become much more feminine in appearance...
Generally speaking, you shouldn't get within a mile of an estrogen pill if you still want to function as a male. HRT is for feminizing your body and you can't pick and choose the parts it will effect, and no doctor will touch you if you want to play both sides of the fence...if you want to be a man, be a man.
Karen
Veronica,
Some men who want breasts may be lucky enough to be sensitive to the chemicals in saw palmetto. It is listed as far back as 1890 as having that effect on both women (increasing mammaries) and men (causing gyne).
My doctor recommended it several years ago for urination problems and low and behold I grew a set of boobs. Confirmed by my endo a few weeks ago as he told to cut out the SP. My testosterone is 332 (241-827) estradiol is 36 (13-54) which is more than most menopausal women and prolactin--useless is men , stimulates milk produciton in women--is 14 (2-16).
good luck with your quest
mandrake out of water
Veronica, I am providing a different point of view as the GG spouse of a MTF. My spouse started hormones in January. She spoke with her doctor about her needs and concerns. Some doctors do take the attitude of it being a black and white situation. Some doctors think like some have posted in here that if you want to have breasts but still be able to function it must be for the wrong reasons. But her doctor, like Linda stated, does believe in the rainbow.finding a balance is always harder than going one way or the other.
Some of us still have function, of our little friend.
Find a good DR that will help you with gender desire, remember the symbol is a rainbow for a reason. your options vary as you move from your birth gender, you need to read, and consult as you need. All ways remember to think it out, with input from you selected DR.
There is room in the middle, options may vary!
My spouse has been in gender therapy counseling for 2 years before starting hormones. She told her doctor that she wants to be able to maintain a sexual relationship with. The doctor put her on a regimen that has resulted in breast growth and still allows her to have an erection. While it does take some work, and as a heterosexual female I do miss the ability to have that certain affect on my spouse simply from a certain look or pose, it works for us. There has been some softening of body hair and slower growth in some areas but not all and her hips have either spread or gotten rounder. It has affected her emotionally. There has also been leg cramps and nipples that are so sore just her shirt rubbing against her makes her cringe.
Yes, my spouse has always felt like she was a female in a male body. However, she has never hated her penis. I have made a lot of sacrafices in staying with her, to include my son and daughter no longer talking to me. Marriage is about compromise, it is about putting someone else's needs above your own. Her choice is because she loves me and she wants me to have happiness too and neither of us wants to lose the other. So her choice has been to live happily today and not concentrate on SRS. We both understand this is not a popular point of view from other's perspectives. As someone else posted, the majority of post-ops end up alone. For her, that is not what will make her happy. Being female is how she feels and how she sees herself. How you see yourself and how you express that is a choice each of us should have the right to make individually.
Hi Veronica,
What I'm about to say is gonna tick off nearly every TS girl on the board, maybe even some girls I adore;
Taste the rainbow baby!!!
I recently started with a great therapist who specializes in Gender work, and she has many years of experience. She really put my mind at ease about this whole transition thing.
Basically, it is YOUR life and you will need to do what works for YOU, regardless of any well meaning but misguided advice. She said there is no right way to feel comfortable with yourself or deal with whatever your gender issue is. Every person has different needs and every situation is unique.
Don't let the SRS brigade stop you from exploring whatever options you want to explore. These ladies keep harping on safety this and safety that and serious medicine, yadda yadda, ...and they're right. That's why you have a doctor!!!
Personally, I would always trust my doctor and therapist before I would ever entertain the advice of someone on this board who I don't even know is real. This board is great entertainment and there are some great people here (as far as I know) but your doctors are the most important players in this little melodrama. If your docs can understand your goals, than that's all that matters.
I'm appalled at some of the snotty comments and holier than thou attitudes in this thread.
Guess what ladies, there are many different paths to contentment. Some of you just see the word hormone and you jump in like it's your job to protect us poor dumb misguided fools. Well, let me clue you in. I don't really care what you think about whatever my plans are so I generally keep them to myself and my actual friends for this exact reason. I won't be put in the position of defending something that me and my doctors are working on. In fact I just recently had some surgery which was rather expensive but very important for my feminizing goals. Notice I never peeped about it, or the long recovery until now.
I know that the path my therapist is suggesting would be met with a howl of protest from the self professed arbiters of femininity so I save myself the grief by not posting personal details along those lines. This is NOT the place to share intimate details about your life.
It's funny that the same people who yap about safety seem to have no problem jumping in and giving dangerous advice like they're qualified to do so. It's my understanding that a therapist can't give advice on HRT until she's had enough time to get to know the patient and the situation. Then the Endo has to do her research. What are you starting with? What are you wanting to do? What are the risks? These people don't care about your health and safety. No doctor would advise you without at least some very basic information which you haven't provided. The best and only advice you should get is simply; see a doctor.
In general, free advice is worth every penny, but I would say that free medical advice is worth much less. Especially when the advice giver has an obvious bias.
-Misty
GAWD AM I TICKED OFF!!!!
...actuallynot..
your point is well taken in all its provocative glory
people need to do what they want...people make choices about their own safety and their own needs... if you don't do your own research then its on you if something doesnt work out...and one of the biggest things that I've seen is folks with unrealistic and fantastical views of HRT, transition and beyond..
free advice is worth alot more than nothing though..its not the end of anything...its just the start...
google is free...is it worthless? an open forum is a different version of the same thing. and this is an open forum with 100's of years of collective experience.... when i was getting divorced, i posted i was trans on a divorce forum hoping for some advice...once
like you Misty, i know that being smarter than everyone else is a very difficult burden (ahem)..but don't worry i'm not troubled by the contradiction in your posts! i think the worthless information you laid out is just as valuable as my worthless information!!
in the end, i think we are all going through an absolutely brutal destructive process..being trans is unlike anything else...having a "condition" that makes you feel worthless, being surrounded by folks that don't understand at best, and living in a world that mocks and belittles you sucks...and many folks are desperate for any kind of help..and I for one will try every time to help anyone that is going through it..and i think that's what you are doing too, even tho for some reason you feel our discussions are worthless...
one of the most rewarding things i have done since i accepted my fate and started my own feminization is to share what i've learned with others.
OK, I wasn't going to post here. But let's say she get her cake, and candy too. Later we'll see a post, OMG I've got breast, But I Still want to present as a man, how do I hide them, My wife/girl friend has left me because of them. What do I do now.
In my opinion ( opinions are like, well everybody knows that one), Run as far away, from HRT as you can.
If you do not want to live full time, then don't play with HRT.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Tammy and me, not your usual couple
:JoanMerrie:Yes I admit it I'm a trans rabbit.
Simply me.
Asking me if I'm "able" to get an erection is like asking me if I am able to eat glass.
Having a hairless body, almost-B-cup breasts, and alot more hair on my the top of my head have all been welcome, but if I knew that all I would get out of HRT was the death of my male libido and the psychological well-being the drugs have brought, and nothing more, I would have still said, "when do we start?" But I didn't know. And since I was individual with my own unique genetic history and body, my doctor didn't know for sure, either, outside of certain parameters. Like it or not, those parameters, and results are there with the transsexual in mind, as far as I know. Maybe it is possible to customize an HRT regimen. I dunno. I do know that the whole package, for a transsexual, seems to work for most.
Geez, It was ridiculously obvious, to me, at least, that talking to my therapist and my doctor were the best ways to take care of my issues. But I'm also extremely grateful to all the holier than thou folks who were happy to share their experiences and feelings with me along the way, and I haven't felt too many better feelings than giving that back in some small way, when given the opportunity. There was a time when many gender variant people felt and thought they were totally alone, sometimes feeling like they were the only ones, anywhere, who felt the things they were feeling. So now that a measure of guidance, solidarity, community, and yes, sometimes some realistic, no-crap assesments of what may be in store are available, that's somehow a bad thing. Meh.
As always, well said, Kaitlyn.
Hugs,
Melissa
Last edited by Melissa A.; 05-01-2010 at 09:14 AM.
Says you. I'm so glad people like you don't get to make decisions for the rest of us.
Veronica will do what's best for her.
-Misty
Like I said opinions are like, well you know. That's just mine. I know I wouldn't want to go through life, presenting as a man. Especially one with breasts. If she is going to live full time, that's fine.( to me full time doesn't mean SRS, many of us just cant afford that, I wish I could, I'd have it done today. For me that distended hoo ha birth defect is just something for the wast liquids to come out of.)
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Tammy and me, not your usual couple
:JoanMerrie:Yes I admit it I'm a trans rabbit.
Simply me.
Hmmmm, but maybe not provocative enough if you saw through it.
Oh, no doubt about it girl, there are people out there doing stupid things. Some of them are self medicating which I don't think is a good idea, but even that is none of my business. This is a free country and people are free to F themselves up however they choose to do it....and one of the biggest things that I've seen is folks with unrealistic and fantastical views of HRT, transition and beyond..
Good point, but I couldn't resist the pithy remark.free advice is worth alot more than nothing though..its not the end of anything...its just the start...
Yes it is, but it comes with just as much BS and personal bias as any group of people you would find on the street. I'm sorry but transitioning yourself does NOT make you an expert on all things transition related. It makes you a patient. One of many who is experiencing a million different things which are mostly unique to YOU. Your life, your body, your changes.and this is an open forum with 100's of years of collective experience....
Oh girl ain't that the truth!like you Misty, i know that being smarter than everyone else is a very difficult burden
...wait a minute, were you being sarcastic?
....HEY!!!
Well, to be fair, I was mainly talking about issues like this. Where somebody is giving stern "advice" (sounds like orders to me though) when they don't have enough information for a proper diagnosis. How in the heck are you gonna tell someone what they can or can't do with HRT when you don't even know them? Never met them, never seen a test result, never consulted with their therapist. That's the free advice I think needs to be ignored.i think the worthless information you laid out is just as valuable as my worthless information!!
You're right of course except for one little thing; I don't feel the DISCUSSION is worthless at all. That's why I dove in with a fist full of provocation. The discussion will prove to be fruitful, (after the echo chamber has been turned down a notch) but the "run from HRT if you're not me" dogma was not helpful and I felt compelled to walk in waving a freedom flag. There's thousands of girls out there who don't post but can be intimidated by some of that vitriol into more confusion. Rather than see a therapist, they get influenced by the louder voices and start to think that maybe there is only one way...and I for one will try every time to help anyone that is going through it..and i think that's what you are doing too, even tho for some reason you feel our discussions are worthless...
My therapist opened my eyes. There is a smorgasbord of opportunity out there these days and if nobody else was gonna say it, then I am proud to take the heat.
Yes, and it's honest forthright discussions like this that provide the best forum for sharing. I've shoveled quite a bit of BS in my time but one thing I've noticed is that BS always crumbles in the heat of even the most mild debate.one of the most rewarding things i have done since i accepted my fate and started my own feminization is to share what i've learned with others.
-Misty
Misty, you are right that "we" tend to sound self righteous when we suggest that only people who wish to transition fully should consider hormones. Maybe we are keeping you away from some rainbow with that advice. But we are also doing two important things: trying to keep you from starting a fairly dangerous drug regime for the wrong reasons, and trying to avoid having to tell you (later) that unfortunately - yes - the affects of HRT are to a great degree, permanent. Regardless of which group of results you get (good or bad).
We really aren't as haughty as we may seem, rather we're trying to save folks from their own foolish decisions. Sure, HRT could work out for some to be a "Boobs but hard Johnson too", with few if any other effects... but it is not very likely that that will be the case.
There is a road—no simple highway—between the dawn and the dark of night.
And if you go no one may follow. That path is for your steps alone.
Just to make it clear, i am not yet on HRT, but intend to get on it as soon as the doctors all agree.
After doing a lot of reading on the subject, what i do know is the it does make you sterile over a period of time, this apparently varies from person to person, as do the other effects of HRT, what you can do before you start your treatment, is look into getting some sperm frozen, how you would go about that i do not know, as i have not looked into it as i have had my children and really dont want more.
Lots of love Elizabeth XXX
You will often find me sleeping in
[SIZE="3"]The Ark Angel Inn[/SIZE] (traditional british pub)
I know Charlene, but that's exactly what I'm talking about.
The "wrong" reasons.
Wrong for who? You?
Joan just said she would never want go through life as a man with boobs and I respect that. Why can't you do the same for Veronica?
Look, a lot of you girls who have transitioned have made decisions along the way that I personally wouldn't have made, but I respect you for making them and living out your lives the way YOU feel is best. There are people out there who surgically install horns and fangs. There are people who alter their bodies in any number of ways for any number of reasons. If somebody wants to take a pill to grow an arm out of the top of their head then I'm afraid that's their business and you're just gonna have to live with it.
So what if they complain later that they can't wear hats anymore? Gosh, then we all get the smug satisfaction that comes with being right for once in our miserable lives.
I have no idea what Veronica wants to do, but let's just say she wants to emulate a she-male porn star. So what?!
Many women and men want to have bodies like porn stars. There's a whole plastic surgery industry that's basically founded on the "ideal" look for the female body. So she wants the body and she wants the erection. It happens, it's been done. Get over it.
Too many rules, and tradition is a poor excuse.
-Misty
I do agree that seeing a doctor is best, but it doesn't hurt to also get some info from reputable internet sites, if only to have a list of questions you can bring to your doctor.
Here is your list of desired effects:
This is what HRT does according to the LGBT group at Ohio University:
1) Yes to breast growth, but according to members here, how much growth is a crap shoot.
2) No to softer facial features or any other skeletal attribute such as height, size of hands & feet, although the skin will soften.
3) Yes to lessening of body hair (but not facial hair .. you will need facial laser hair removal).
4) Yes to redistribution of fat, but according to members here, only if you have fat to distribute.
5) No to removal of adam's apple.
In addition to the above:
6) No change in voice.
7) Loss of strength.
8) Increased emotional sensitivity, depression not uncommon.
9) Diminished ability to achieve erections and to ejaculate.
10) Sterelity
11) Possible long-term health risks such as thromboembolic disease (blood clotting), and benign pituitary tumors, gallbladder disease, and hypertension.
There are also other options and resources on the site.
Last edited by ReineD; 05-01-2010 at 05:46 PM.
Reine
to help fight blood clotting, i take a baby aspirin a day. But now even a small prick or cut, I think I'm going to bleed to death, before it stops.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Tammy and me, not your usual couple
:JoanMerrie:Yes I admit it I'm a trans rabbit.
Simply me.
The problem isn't with what V. wants to do, it is with the fear we all live with that someone out there will think to themselves that "if those ladies do that then I can too..." but, for the wrong reasons. Then later, believe that they were led astray by words on a forum such as this one. None of us want to think back and have to say " I could have said something to her ... maybe she would have sought out a gender therapist and found out that it was just a fetish" ...or whatever.
We - as in TS folks - are trying to fix something about our very basic makeup. It is a very different thing from changing your fangs. Which you can change right back pretty easily if you want to do so. Along the way we learn out of need, about the details of transition. Few who are very much along that path would "recommend it to others". We worry that someone will mistake what we say as advice to go off and change your gender because it sounds like fun. IT AIN'T no fun, trust me on that one, please.
Here we talk it out, in extreme detail at times. It might seem to some that it is a thing they'd like to "try out". That is the rub, we want to try as gently as possible, to convince them to seek professional help before going down this road. I mention this because even though it is not often talked about here, you can easily get the HRT drugs without the help and advice of a qualified doctor. You can then dose yourself up, seek what you think you want and find yourself in a heap - and I mean HEAP of trouble. So, yes, we worry way too much about someone emulating us for the wrong reasons. Yes, that does mean that we appear to be "dividing up who is right and who is wrong..." etc. When in fact very few of us ever want to do that, or ever wanted to be here in this position. But here we are and so we get kinda touchy when it seems that someone might be going in a direction that isn't for the right reasons. Yes, that means we feel you must have the "right reasons", because if you don't, and you end up sorry over it, you may be stuck without a way of getting back to where you comfortable. The big issue here that isn't mentioned as much as it should: HRT is a one way street. You start and after a while ( they won't say when ) you can't go back to your normal again. You will be stuck on some form of HRT for life.
You don't like your tattoo ? Laser it off. You don't like that piercing ? Take 'er out. You think your vampire phase is over ? Go to the dentist and get the implants out. This all very different from "I've been on HRT for 9 months and I want my erections back, and when will these boobs shrink back down"???
Gawd... I'm sorry, because I am lecturing here... I really do not want to preach. BUT I really do not want you to think that what I do is a good idea for you, UNLESS it really is.... so sure I'll challenge you on it. My challenge is nothing, nothing at all compared to what you will face if you follow me down this road. Yeah, it sounds so enticing, but it ain't, it just ain't.
Last edited by CharleneT; 05-01-2010 at 07:28 PM.
There is a road—no simple highway—between the dawn and the dark of night.
And if you go no one may follow. That path is for your steps alone.
As Charlene said, this is a very dangerous path. Is it fun heck no. I've lost all most every thing, i/e mom,dad,brother, both sisters, in laws, some friends, my house that I helped build, nearly lost my job. and came very,very close to ending my life, once my cat stopped me, the last time my wife came in and took the gun from me.
Would I wish this on my worst enemy, he** no. This isn't a fun trip at all. That's why we get over protective if we think someone is thinking she can do it so can I.
PLEASE, PLEASE, think this through, talk to your better half, a qualified therapist, before you jump an this scary ride.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Tammy and me, not your usual couple
:JoanMerrie:Yes I admit it I'm a trans rabbit.
Simply me.
Reine your list is mostly consistent with what i've seen personally
it is possible to see a softening of facial features though, but it usually takes a long time, some girls see that happen post srs even after years of HRT
i've also had friends that didnt see fat move, but after srs they did get more curvy..
it really is a broken record that folks overestimate what the meds can do so its fraught with problems.. one reason for this in my estimable opinion is that we all grow up looking over the fence at femininity but don't really understand it, so we covet what seems most attractive, but otherwise have no clue.....as my friend dave would mutter over his beer...tits and ass, tits and ass, tits and ass...
thats how i felt...then i started the HRT, and it was nothing like i thought, it took FOREVER to fricking start working, my blood work got crappy., etc etc,,...on the good side i learned that living my real female life was worth it, even though it was nothing like what i thought..
now will somebody come over here and help me open this jar of pickles?
This thread has been troubling me for some reason.
1 V. doesn't want to transition to full time.
To me full time is 24/7 365. not back and forth.
2 She wants the effects of hrt, but keep function.
It's possible, but no one knows how your body will react.
For instance, My Dr. had me on a low dose of Spiro. and a high dose of E. What happened was when my E levels go to a certain level, my body converted it to testerone. That was like a death sentence to me. So he upped my Spiro, and lowered my E.
My point is Excessive levels of estrogen can become testerone, so you are going backwards.
3 This is just my opinion. What if you do get your much wanted breasts. You go to the beach or where ever, in male mode, are you going to keep your shirt on? how will you explain you boobs, Gynecomast? well those Male breasts look a whole lot different than female breasts.
We do not mean to be preachy, but this is a dangerous road. please think things through, before you commit to this path.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Tammy and me, not your usual couple
:JoanMerrie:Yes I admit it I'm a trans rabbit.
Simply me.
Hmmm, maybe the idea of personal responsibility is what's really troubling you.
I'm not gonna transition full time for at least another couple of years. Maybe never. I can't speak for Veronica's plans but so what. YOU bit off full time, maybe we will maybe we won't. You don't approve so just give us your best dirty look and move on with your life.1 V. doesn't want to transition to full time.
To me full time is 24/7 365. not back and forth.
Just so we're clear, it's okay for your doctor to experiment with YOUR dosage but it's NOT okay for Veronica? Why? Oh, because you got there first, I get it. You have learned hard lessons and that poor dear has no idea what she's getting into. Well, relax hon, I'm sure her doctor is almost as good as yours, but to be safe, you may want to send your contact info just in case her Doc gets stumped on something.2 She wants the effects of hrt, but keep function.
It's possible, but no one knows how your body will react.
For instance, My Dr. had me on a low dose of Spiro. and a high dose of E. What happened was when my E levels go to a certain level, my body converted it to testerone. That was like a death sentence to me. So he upped my Spiro, and lowered my E.
My point is Excessive levels of estrogen can become testerone, so you are going backwards.
Are you gonna keep yours on?3 This is just my opinion. What if you do get your much wanted breasts. You go to the beach or where ever, in male mode, are you going to keep your shirt on?
how will you explain you boobs, Gynecomast? well those Male breasts look a whole lot different than female breasts.
Yes they do, and that's exactly why we want them. I think it's sweet that you're so concerned about our embarrassment at the beach or wherever, but do you really think I'm so stupid that I wouldn't make the appropriate adjustments in my life to accommodate my breasts? Really? Life isn't a sitcom, where I run out with my (totally straight) buddies and tear off my shirt for a quick game of Top Gun shirtless volleyball. Ooops, OMG look at Johnny! Dude you got boobs!!!
If it makes you feel any better, I won't shave my chest. That way the site of my big hairy boobs will stun them long enough for me to put my shirt back on and pretend like nothing ever happened. Maybe I'll start a biker gang and I'll grow a beard and cut boob holes in my leather jacket.
The world is my oyster!
Thanks Mom, but I'm an adult with a career and a mortgage. I'm fully capable of thinking things through all by my wittle self. No offense, but my therapist has a lot more invested in my particular case than you do. Also, she has a hell of a lot more experience with this stuff than you do. Why can't you people understand that what you know is based on what you've learned about YOURSELF and that there is a full range of possibilities that you didn't consider or didn't choose for one reason or another.We do not mean to be preachy, but this is a dangerous road. please think things through, before you commit to this path.
The big wheel keeps on turnin' baby and I will continue to explore options that work for me. My happiness is paramount and I will do what makes me happy. (period)
Maybe someday we'll meet and I'll tip my hat with the arm that's growing out of my head. ...and if by chance that really gets your goat, then that will make me happy as well.
-Misty
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