ethical question . . .

[kaleyg]

do you think its wrong to bend the truth a little in order to be more 'acceptable?' for example, ive told SAs at bridal shops that i'm buying a dress 'for charity' (ok, not bending the truth, just lying) so that they would be more comfortable helping me. i'm afraid that if i were honest, they would treat me like a weirdo and take all the fun out of the process! another example: i've submitted questions on yahoo answers like 'which wedding gown looks better', and i've made up a few details about my ficticious wedding so that people won't be suspicious. (the responses are awesome, by the way). i really want some honest non-cd/tg feedback, and i don't think i can get it being 100% honest.

are these all just innocent white lies or am i really doing something morally wrong? is there a level of misinformation that is acceptable (and expected) on the internet? anyone have a thought on this? anyone have similar experiences? i feel a little guilty about it. if you want the links to my yahoo questions, i'm glad to post them. ; )

EDIT: the 'charity' story is this -- i'm in a mock beauty pageant fund raiser. this was true on one trip, but usually not true.
EDIT #2: and i never tried to get a discount with the charity story. BUT, when i was (really) going to do the mock beauty pageant, a salon offered to completely make me over for free (hair, makeup, nails, false eyelashes, etc.), in return for a little publicity. but, i ended up not going through with it. : (

[JulieK1980]

I'd say since they are not people involved in your life it doesn't really matter. I suppose technically still wrong, it definitely doesn't compare to say, lying to your spouse about things.

[CATgirldo]

I don't like taking an SAs time if I'm not a serious shopper. They have to make a living and if I'm just window shopping, I can chose my clothes and ask to use a dressing room without taking up their time. (I shop dressed) Normally, it is too much trouble for me to get out and not have a plan so I am intending to buy something, but it does happen that I don't like what I find or don't like the price and leave empty handed. If an SA offers to help then hey, no foul.
As far as questions on the internet. Anyone who believes everything they read on the internet is living in LALA land. There is so much misinformation that Caveat Emptor has never been more appropriate. People need to remember that on everything the see online. (Lying is integral to the internet... Al Gore designed it to be that way.).

Just my 2 cents

CAT

[Jessy]

I consider it "white lies" as long as you don't do anything that might disadvantage other people. But be careful, because white lies can escalate! And then it becomes harder setting things straight again.

[Elizabeth 66]

y should it be wrong, you still intend to buy a dress i take it, the other day i bought a nightie for my wife and had to take it back. this thing is i dont have a wife, but it made it easier for me, i still bought the next size up, so who is harmed, no one, and thats whats importent

[mapletree]

I was raised that a little white lie to save someone embarrasment was ok....
and as i have got older and now I am in the older category, i sometimes wonder if I did not do a diservice to me and the person I was talking to... I say this becasue with the white lie i have found myself not dealing my feelings and my fears. Just my two cents worth. I look back at some periods in my life where a white lie really did not do what it was supposed to

[NV Susan]

[SIZE="4"]Hi kaleyg, sounds to me like your just having fun with you feminine side. I do it all the time...but have never told a SA I'm buying something for a charity. I'll remember that for the future though!!!

PS; I love that cute pink top your wearing in your avatar.....
[/SIZE]

[AllThingsPretty]

I wouldn't sweat it at all. You are not hurting anyone and you just want to feel more comfortable while shopping. I see nothing at all wrong with it.

The main thing is your having fun shopping

[SherriePall]

As far as the SA's, don't worry about telling them the truth. Most of them have already waited on one of us already and all of them are mostly concerned with making the sale -- whether it's for "charity" or because we just plain ole like to wear them!
As for asking which gown looks better and pretending to be a GG preparing for a wedding, I can see your point in seeking an un-TG answer. Others here may feel differently.

[Veronica Nowakowski]

You're certainly not doing something ethically or morally wrong by lying, so long as you're not accepting discounts they may offer charitable organizations. It would help the rest of us if you were open about it, but I can't blame you.

[Angel.Marie76]

Personally, if I were going to shop for a wedding dress, I would show up to the gown shop dressed for the occasion. Considering, as it was said before, most SA's have bumped into CDers and TG folks before, if you show up dressed, and are being very honest and fun with them.. there should be no reason to lie. Most of the time women in those stores /want/ to make the woman very happy with their purchase, and if you're in the spirit with them, through trying the dresses on and gazing into the mirror complaining about how the dress just doesn't seem to fit right here, or doesn't show enough leg there.. you'll probably have more fun.

However, if you're also deeply in the closet and not wanting to expose that side of you to an SA, then again, as long as you're honest about the purchase intent, a little white lie will likely not hurt. The problem I see, simply, is again as said, wasting their time just trying on dresses and walking out, will tend to steam them up... UNLESS the place you're visiting is completely empty, and the SA's are bored and just looking for something to do.. At that point, again, even with the white lie about the intention in the end, if you just walk up to the SA's in drab, if the SA's are up for the challenge of trying to make a guy look cute in a dress, then JUMP on it while you have the chance.

[Karren H]

Liar liar dress on fire!! Just tell her its for you. SA's could care less imho.

[darla_g]

you worry too much me thinks

[Annaliese2010]

do you think its wrong to bend the truth a little in order to be more 'acceptable?' for example, ive told SAs at bridal shops that i'm buying a dress 'for charity' (ok, not bending the truth, just lying) so that they would be more comfortable helping me....are these all just innocent white lies or am i really doing something morally wrong? is there a level of misinformation that is acceptable (and expected) on the internet? anyone have a thought on this?).

Innocence!

Wow I'm impressed by your innocence. Wellll...you may want to sit down before reading this - OR - don't bother your pretty head over it and stay as you are, 'cause there IS something very appealing about someone who is really honest as you seem to be. At any rate, it's like this sweetheart: There are societal laws that define 'right & wrong' and as a general rule it's not a bad idea to always follow the law, if for no other reason than to avoid the possibility of legal prosecution and punishment. That much is obsious. But moral right & wrong? That's another story. Actually, what's moral or not depends on those cultural, religious or philosophical standards you subscribe to or those that you set for yourself by the application of logic and reason that are based on whatever assumptions you make as a starting point. What's morally right or wrong is determined relative to these standards, whatever they may be. Because any given culture or religion or starting assumption can differ significantly compared to others, it's hard to argue that any one set of moral standards is superior. Thus the saying: There are no moral absolutes. So morally speaking, what's right or wrong is relative. Not sure I entirely agree with that myself, but that's a whole other topic.

Also...absolute honesty is impractical. There's a funny movie that recently came out on DVD starring Ricky Gervais, 'The Invention of Lying'. It depicts a lot of funny examples of how everyday life would be affected if no one lied. You should check it out 'cuz...OF COURSE IT'S OKAY TO EFFIN LIE!!! LOL... At least about the things you mentioned babe. In fact, the world wouldn't work if you didn't! Aw. You truly are an... innocent.

Personally? I aspire to being honest on the internet and certainly in real life. Yep, for sure! And Especially when relating to people I meet and like. I mean, within reason, of course. It's up to the individual to determine how far they can go with that because obviously, it would be foolhardy to be completely honest!!!!! But I am totally honest when it comes to self-pics, just because it wouldn't be fun otherwise, and you can always crop photo's so that you're not entirely out there, as I feel I am forced to do, actually. Aside from your own honesty it also follows how...it's up to you too, to decide how much you can openly trust that someone you meet on websites is being honest with you... WHY? LOL...if you have to ask that it's probably too late, your hard-drive is probably running slow and your bank account is draining because it's unfortunate but true: Anyone can find out everything about anybody these days. Literally! And it is only because most people do not take the time to learn those skills necessary to enable them to actually do this that it isn't actually the case for the majority.

My rule of thumb is...be very careful until after the passage of time and sufficient interaction, which should be taking you incrementally in the direction of an actual meeting (eg. public board --> PM ---> private email --> instant messaging --> web camming --> phone calling --> meeting) so you can at some point get a gut-level sense about that person. But even then you're taking a chance. But...you don't want to be alone forever either...so...at some point you must take a chance, I guess. Your call. A difficult thing that. Because sometimes if you play it too safe you lose out on a really good thing, maybe piss her off and...she's gone forever. Life's a bitch...

[sherri52]

How do you feel about it. I don't consider it morally wrong. Yes, they are lies but as for morally, I don't think so. You ask on Yahoo how it looks that's fine. As for the SA's, aren't you comfortable enough to say they are for you.

[AKAMichelle]

A lot of people you might tell that white lie may already know the truth from looking at you. So it may not be doing you as much good as you think. They are connecting the dots.

[Jessica Who]

Honestly I wouldn't worry about it, you're protecting your dignity and privacy. Now if you're lying to loved ones, that's a different story

[Schatten Lupus]

It just depends on your level of comfort. While it is technically lying, it is a harmless, victim less form of lying, and it only suits how comfortable you are with letting others know.
I've noticed that when I have went shopping for my fiance to buy her clothes, SAs never glanced, glared, questioned, or even asked for a reason when I've had questions.

[Renelle]

People in business lie to each other all the time. "It's just business". Just look at what the banksters have been doing lately. When you enter a place of business, you have no moral obligation whatsoever to them. They are only there to sell you something. You are there to buy something. No more, no less.

[eileendover]

Honestly I wouldn't worry about it, you're protecting your dignity and privacy. Now if you're lying to loved ones, that's a different story

For times when you are not really legally or morally obligated to divulge something private, I think it's acceptable to lie.
You are not taking advantage of anyone else, and you have not exposed some secret needlessly.

[Stephenie S]

May I take a different tack here?

Lying is lying and it will take an emotional toll on YOU eventually. Look at the effort you are already investing in this situation.

Someone mentioned that there are few, if any, moral absolutes. Perhaps this is true. Take those Muslim crazies with the suicide bombs. THEY don't think what they are doing is wrong. Yet WE are aghast at such behavior. Where lies the moral absolutes here?

But lying goes against your grain sweetie or you wouldn't be asking the question. I would try to keep it to a minimum just for your own peace of mind.

Stephenie

[kaleyg]

so many opinions on this question. i guess cd/tgers are a reflective bunch by nature. i appreciate the feedback. i think one concern i had was what people HERE would think of me.

here's the issue: what gg would ever spend $300 on a dress for fun? i really want to go in and try on gowns and buy one if i love it, but i just don't have any good reason. i need a formal event or something to justify the expense, or the SAs will think i'm strange, and that kind of ruins it. i want it to feel fun and normal--for me and for them.

[inessa]

I think people want to believe we are buying for someone else to alleviate an uncomfortable situation. I works for you because you get your clothes. It works for them because they make money. The excuse may take some of the awkwardness away so everyone wins.

[gabimartini]

I feel it is always better to tell the truth, because you don't have to remember what you said to whom. However, society isn't exactly 100% TG-friendly and sometimes it becomes necessary to tell a few stories here and there, in order to get decent service, an impartial opinion, etc. I see no harm in that, as long as you are not doing something illegal.

My two cents.

[Annaliese2010]

But lying goes against your grain sweetie or you wouldn't be asking the question. I would try to keep it to a minimum just for your own peace of mind.

I agree, as a general principle, and because Kaley does seem to be extra-innocent, which is sexy, actually. For sure it's always better to be honest and truthful. That's how I live MY life. But having common sense is just as important too, imho.

so many opinions on this question. i guess cd/tgers are a reflective bunch by nature. i appreciate the feedback. i think one concern i had was what people HERE would think of me...

Well I think you're hot, for what it's worth...