Why?!?!?!?

[PortiaHoney]

Point for consideration: How many here who CD in private will not take it to a higher level because they view the "female" role to be a downgrade from their current postion in societies pecking order? This is not what they think others will think of them, but rather, is it their OWN views of what they do that prevents them from being more open.

Just curious, given that the most frequent answer so far is that males are deemed superior and females inferior by society and we are members of that society.

[JiveTurkeyOnRye]

Point for consideration: How many here who CD in private will not take it to a higher level because they view the "female" role to be a downgrade from their current postion in societies pecking order? This is not what they think others will think of them, but rather, is it their OWN views of what they do that prevents them from being more open..

I actually think this margin is probably pretty slim. I don't think it's that they feel people will judge them because they're female, but rather because they're a crossdresser.

[kellycan27]

I think that "peckers" are the main problem to this whole question.

[PortiaHoney]

I actually think this margin is probably pretty slim. I don't think it's that they feel people will judge them because they're female, but rather because they're a crossdresser.

I'm sorry Ryan. It's pretty late here and I wasn't sure what I was saying sounded right.

I'm curious about those who don't go public because THEY feel they are "lowering" themselves - not because of anybody elses opinions. It's not about passing or being convincing enough to be judged as a female and then being lumped into the "lesser beings" category.

Yes, I am sure they would be in the small minority, but I can't help feel that, with the amount of talk about societies opinions, that there must be those who actually subscribe to that way of thinking even here. And that this way of thinking is where the conflict arises within the person. It is not that they are afraid of being accepted as a female and been discriminated against on that basis or even being discovered to be a guy in a dress, but that the discrimination arises internally before any external factors come into play.

This is one of those topics which keeps getting raised and it just dawned on me that maybe this could be a reason why some keep it very private and won't even venture past their front doors.

But, then again, we live in a very liberated society, so we should all feel comfortable doing what we please, so long as no children or animals or others are hurt in the process.

[Lorileah]

ohhhh, that would be...mean. asbestos panties anyone?

So is the true answer here "life sucks"?

[Cutedot]

Madonna probably said it best in "What It Feels Like For a Girl":

Girls can wear jeans
And cut their hair short
Wear shirts and boots
'Cause it's OK to be a boy
But for a boy to look like a girl is degrading
'Cause you think that being a girl is degrading
But secretly you'd love to know what it's like
Wouldn't you?

Fact is: it makes no sense for society to condone a man in a dress, since it would be "reducing" the societal leader to a 2nd rate citizen...

Dot

[eluuzion]

So are there any societies that accept crossdressing?

The ancient Moche civilization of northern Peru (just prior to the Incan civilization) were an interesting bunch. They are known for their sexual "pecularities" (to phrase it nicely). They actually raised some boys whose role in life was specifically to portray women. (for the pleasure of elder leaders). Too bizarre to give details here.

They are still famous for their pottery and artwork, which depicts many of their sexual antics and ceremonial sacrifices, etc.

[Veronica Nowakowski]

I consider the female role to be a step up, but man trying to be a woman a step down. But then I dress in public, very public (plan on giving a short speech en femme next Saturday and lead a workshop en femme in June), so perhaps this doesn't apply to me.

[Toni_Lynn]

I have given this some further thought. Consider these points.

1) Many of us feel anger that CDers can't openly wear anything feminine, yet (believe the myth that) GGs can wear guy's stuff without a second glance. This second part about GGs, in a sense, is hand in hand with an unconscious belief that women are better than or superior to men because of of this favourable situation.

2) We believe that it is because the public sees the thought that a man taking on a/ the "female" role is a step down. Yet how many men in traditionally female roles, such as nursing or teaching, get paid more than women.

3) There is a certain percentage of CDers who, as a part of their erotic life, participate in feminisation that has an element of ridicule, punishment, and humiliation in it. We allow sexual to partners to use degrading terms on us. We have handles on 'net such as CDsl(letter u)t.

When considered as a whole, I think that because of point 3, some CDers actually perpetuate and feed points 1 and 2. Point 3 reflects very heavily back on GGs. How can we expect to be treated with respect when we ourselves tear down that which we love so much through our actions.

Any thoughts

Huggles

Toni-Lynn

[Satrana]

I think Madonna's choice of the word degrading is spot on. It is a lot more than just a change in social status. A rich man becoming a poor man would not receive the stigma a MTF crossdresser receives. Nor is a change in social status a source of endless ridicule and laughter that fuels Hollywood movies.

Some of the definitions from the word degrading illustrate what I am talking about.

To lower in dignity; dishonor or disgrace
To lower in moral or intellectual character; debase.
To reduce in worth or value
Reduction to a state of shame or disgrace
Loss of self-respect or dignity

Disgrace......shame......debasement. These words conjure up a moral dimension to the change in social status. It is not just a lowering in status, but a humiliating, disgraceful change in status. The only equivalent that comes to mind would be a person who becomes a prostitute - their moral integrity is called into question and their lifestyle is seen as a challenge to social values.

Simply put traditional Western values see a MTF crossdressing as an abomination ie detestable, abhorrent and depraved largely due to the perceived sexual motivation.