Is there such thing as a FtM CDER ?

[Fab Karen]

that made my brain hurt...

Rent "Victor/Victoria" your brain might stop hurting. Or maybe not.

Y'all are thinking too hard.

If you keep saying "y'all" after you move to Bastin, you'll get funny looks. Oh, and start throwing "wicked pissah!" Into your sentences.

[Sally24]

In the Boston area I've run into one true FTM CD (not a drag king). In this pic, at Pride 2007, he is in the only skirtlike thing he ever wears a kilt. Normally he wears very formal or period clothing, otherwise he would be taken as a androgn wearing pants.
steel.jpg

Steel and Sally

[Andy66]

Just thought I'd throw this out there: I'm planning on going out for a drink with a MtF CD (just friends, so I don't want to hear any crazy rumors). I will be dressed all boy, as oppposed to my usual mixed boy/girl look. Hopefully she will be brave enough to dress all girl. So yeah, I think, therefore I am, as they say.

[Kid Flash]

Hello? XD

I just recently introduced myself in the new members subforum, and even though I haven't bought a chest binder or gone out in public yet, someday I will. It does honestly feel a little strange on this site, it's called Crossdressers but I haven't seen any threads with FtM crossdressing yet and here I wanted tips. A lot of cute trans guys, but I'm definitely not going to be taking testosterone or anything like that.

I guess you can say I'm an aspiring crossdresser, but yes, I exist.

[Sheila]

KF, the guys will have loads of great tips n tricks for you , they are an amazingly friendly,& informative bunch

[alpha12]

Well, my well-thought-out post just got eaten again.

My own fault, too cowardly to click the box to stay logged in.

To sum up: Perhaps people don't see ftm CD-ers because there is no recognized culture of ftm CR-ers. If I (someone who looks like a woman) wears man's clothing, I'm either

1) lazy/sloppy/casual--the jeans/t-shirt thing

or

2) "Cute" in "menswear" Blech. I hate the idea that people see me as dressing up, or that when a woman dresses in man's clothes it's likely to gratify someone else--to be cute rather than to express hirself.

or

3) a butch lesbian.

I'm not sure to what degree I'm ftm, but I don't often wear a full suit of men's clothes in large part because I don't like any of those three boxes that I tend to feel stuffed into when I try.

There is no widespread culture of ftm cross-dressers. Perhaps because when women cross-dress, they tend to get shoved into other categories, whether they will it or no.

[Bones]

Before I was "FtM," (or knew it anyway), I considered myself a cross dresser. In my senior year of high school, I went to prom wearing a full suit. This was shortly after I admitted to myself that I was transgender. Oddly enough, no one thought I was "cute" and no one thought I was a lesbian either. People-- my peers in high school-- were saying I was handsome. Mind you, I did not come out as trans at school yet. I was out to a few friends and family a couple months before that and I doubt the whole class found out before prom. No... they somehow innately understood that I was not "just a lesbian." They figured out I was a guy even after knowing me as a girl for 4+ years. Some of them knew me as a girl since 6th grade and they still totally understood me that night. It was a magical night.

[Ze]

Rent "Victor/Victoria" your brain might stop hurting. Or maybe not.

I had eye orgasms throughout that entire movie. God she's hot...

If you keep saying "y'all" after you move to Bastin, you'll get funny looks. Oh, and start throwing "wicked pissah!" Into your sentences.

Oi, don't censor me! Does this mean I shouldn't wear my cowboy hat, either?

Just thought I'd throw this out there: I'm planning on going out for a drink with a MtF CD (just friends, so I don't want to hear any crazy rumors).

Anne and a lady sittin' in a tree. K-I-S-S-I-N-G! laynice:

Hello? XD

I just recently introduced myself in the new members subforum, and even though I haven't bought a chest binder or gone out in public yet, someday I will. It does honestly feel a little strange on this site, it's called Crossdressers but I haven't seen any threads with FtM crossdressing yet and here I wanted tips. A lot of cute trans guys, but I'm definitely not going to be taking testosterone or anything like that.

I guess you can say I'm an aspiring crossdresser, but yes, I exist.

We have few self-identified FtM CDers here, but I hope that doesn't discourage you. You seem really cool so far, so I hope you stick around!

Well, my well-thought-out post just got eaten again.

My own fault, too cowardly to click the box to stay logged in.

To sum up: Perhaps people don't see ftm CD-ers because there is no recognized culture of ftm CR-ers. If I (someone who looks like a woman) wears man's clothing, I'm either

1) lazy/sloppy/casual--the jeans/t-shirt thing

or

2) "Cute" in "menswear" Blech. I hate the idea that people see me as dressing up, or that when a woman dresses in man's clothes it's likely to gratify someone else--to be cute rather than to express hirself.

or

3) a butch lesbian.

I'm not sure to what degree I'm ftm, but I don't often wear a full suit of men's clothes in large part because I don't like any of those three boxes that I tend to feel stuffed into when I try.

There is no widespread culture of ftm cross-dressers. Perhaps because when women cross-dress, they tend to get shoved into other categories, whether they will it or no.

Hear hear.

[Thornton]

If you keep saying "y'all" after you move to Bastin, you'll get funny looks. Oh, and start throwing "wicked pissah!" Into your sentences.

nah, you can say "y'all", you just gotta say it with a Bostonian accent...if that makes any sense

[Ze]

Go Saax, y'all.

[Kid Flash]

We have few self-identified FtM CDers here, but I hope that doesn't discourage you. You seem really cool so far, so I hope you stick around!

Thank you, I can say the same about you. I'm definitely going to stick around here, you guys can even address me by "he" like the MtF crossdressers go by "she". I look forward to getting to know everyone. =)

[Fab Karen]

nah, you can say "y'all", you just gotta say it with a Bostonian accent...if that makes any sense

So something like,"I'm just gonna go pahk the cah, yeahl"

[Thornton]

Go Saax, y'all.

So something like,"I'm just gonna go pahk the cah, yeahl"

ok....you can say "y'all" with a Bostonian accent...but where you place the "y'all" in your sentence still has to make sense! Like, "Where y'all goin'?" or, "I'll catch up wit y'all later." or something of the like...

We really don't all sound like the Kennedys...

[Ze]

Thank you, I can say the same about you. I'm definitely going to stick around here, you guys can even address me by "he" like the MtF crossdressers go by "she". I look forward to getting to know everyone. =)

Dude, we were going to do that, anyway.

We really don't all sound like the Kennedys...

Er, ah, yah don't?

[juno]

I am a beginner MTF CDer. I think that MTF is more common simply because women's clothing has a huge variety compared to men's clothes, plus the variety of makeup choices. The whole process of dressing in women's clothes can provide a lot of entertainment. In comparison, dressing in men's clothes and no artistic makeup is rather limited.

So, my guess is that FTM CDers do it mainly to present a male identity, whereas many MTF CDers enjoy the fun of "playing dress-up".

Another aspect is that women can wear moderately masculine clothes, and they go unnoticed. Maybe there are really a lot of moderate FTM CDers that are just not getting counted.

[DonniDarkness]

This has been a great thread, i would like to add something, i don't think i saw it posted previously.

Now i dont want anyone to read too deep into this, because my opinion is just for the basic concept: Sexual Orientation/Attraction
Some have said that most FTM Cders that they have recognized are mostly "butch" lesbians. They identify as a "strong" partner in their sexual orientation....with that said lets take the straight GG into account, with her sexual orientation, dressing and passing as a man makes it as tough to attract a straight guy as it does for us straight MTF cders to attract women while we are dressed as girls. This may have a lot to do with the numbers of non transitioning FTM cders not being very high.

Dont beat me up too bad, just my theory

-Donni-

[Kid Flash]

Hmm, Juno could be right, part of it could be because you can't dress up as much in guy's clothing. I personally enjoy it, and I don't like make-up much in the first place.

As to what MissDonni said... Well, on here, there are barely any FtM crossdressers but if you were to go to an anime convention you'd find loads more girl crossplayers than guy ones. Part of it may have to do with the whole anime convention environment being out of the norm in the first place.

[kurokaze]

It comes down to how one identifies. A good example is very butch lesbians--the kind you tend to mistake for men by appearances alone. They dress in men's clothes and pass as men (and sometimes even prefer male pronouns), yet are neither cross-dressers nor transmen because they don't identify as such. Rather, they still identify as women, hence the "lesbian" part...

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[[ Quoted for emphasis ... and ... well... omg smileys... hahahaha ]]

Wow, my brain just absolutely couldn't articulate how deeply I agree just now...

uhm... well... that says it all right there... JUST as I was returning to forums, wondering if there was anywhere I fit in... there's a thread that more-or-less describes my situation.

I've explored the heck out of my identity... and "living male" didn't suit me... just... wow!!!

[[ Quote ]]
...Female bodied, I even present as such, or sometimes androgyne, but never as male.
[[ Maybe.. FtM crossdresser??? WHOA!!! ]]

I never really thought of it that way... am I a crossdresser? after a fassion? kinda like "after a fassion, I'm transmasculine" ... or even "FTM-esque" ... crazy stuff!!!

This thread just blows my mind.

Sure, even if I myself don't neccessarily IDENTIFY as such... yeah, FtM crossdressers exist.

------- MERGE ------- ((( gee shelly... that confused me for a minute... and NOW the timestamp for the second post is missing... RAWR )))

:: the following was not written originally ::

...I am sure that there are F2M CDER's who, because of how society view dress code have an easier time of dressing in mainstream e.g. when doing the top & tails bit, it being seen as cute...

...As for the patronizing, I think I can safely say that the bulk of us get that, FtM CD or not. The patronizing becomes a whole lot more dangerous the more the patronizer sees the individual isn't trying to be "cute." So that's where a lot of the trouble starts.

uhgk...

I feel horrible right about now... "cute / patronizing / etc." ... well... it uhm... sorta...

perhaps the term "dressing for comfort" applies to FtM CDs as well. or ... heck, I dunno...

... objectifying or patronizing or otherwise "not taking someone's identity serriously" ... I really wish I hadn't had personal experience with this.

The community of various persons willing to raise the bar on gender expression... well... there's enough people in the world whom aren't yet progressive or understanding.

... I can't form a complete paragraph, thesis, point right now, just that I feel absolutely horrid thinking about...

horrid ... thinking of... "ways in which someone invalidates a thing whiich makes another person truly happy"

Ze --- I wish I hadn't followed up on OTHER PEOPLE ... like ... the way the conversation went... ok I've completely lost the ability to type about this. Can't handle it.

--- edit ::: with regard to the SECOND portion of this now-merged post... just wanted to clarify one thing...

when a thread goes OFF TOPIC like this (talking about something unexpected, and potentially upsetting) ... well... I guess I'll just quote myself ((( lol )))

[[ quoted for emphasis, slightly rewritten ]]
said to ze ... I wish I hadn't followed up on OTHER PEOPLE [[ the off topic part ]] ... like ... the way the conversation went... Can't handle it...
[[ goodness, off topic is generally a pet peve of mine on forums, but off topic + potentially upsetting? RAWR ]]

[Sheila]

kurokaze, hi I am the thread starter and i would like you to know that never know way would I ever call an F2M dresser CDER/TS as "Cute" ever and I mean ever. Ze will confirm if you need it doing that I am one of the Guys biggest supporters.

We were in the quotes you used discussing in pricipal how society manages to allow/enable itself to accept F2M's dressing in suits/top n tails by using such phrases a cute in a patronizing way ........... not that we agree with it, but rather that we acknowledge that some sections of general society need to "label" it to accept it without it disturbing their "view" of how things should be ........ in many ways it is the opposite extreme from them viewing M2F's as weird/sex driven monsters for dressing in clothing designed for females ............... neither view is right, but they are views held by some

It was a conversation with another member that I had via PM that lead me to start this thread ......... I am glad you were delighted to find this thread on your return to the boards and i hope that my explanation will clear up any confusion in the conversation ZE and I had earlier in the thread .......... Ze and I have had many conversations in many threads, some in this section many across the board, some in jest, some in all seriousness, some a mixture of both as well as in PM's and visitor messages ......... please believe me I would never ever knock any ones dress code in any serious way ........ My partner is a M2F TS (we are a few steps down the TS road at the moment) and while I am her biggest supporter/fan, I can and do on occasions take the micky out of her dress just as she does me, always in fun and never ever to be taken seriously.

Please accept my apology if I in any way led you to believe that I was micky taking in any way any TG dressed

[kurokaze]

...Please accept my apology if I in any way led you to believe that I was micky taking in any way any TG dressed...

uh... actually, I KNEW you were having a conversation / exchanging ideas on forums (was kinda obvious actually, but I still appreciate your appology)

... to be perfectly honest, I was triggered by the subject matter of...

... [[ treatment of persons whom are in "non-conforming dress" ]]

... quite honestly, that wasn't even the original thread / topic...
those sorts of threads / discussions I generally opt-into ONLY when I feel like I can handle them.

----

Side note, I quoted you (this time) for another reason... what does it mean:

[[ I was micky taking in any way any TG dressed ]] ???

I read between the lines just fine... I didn't figure you were disrespecting anyone, it was just that I was triggered... heh.

It's all good (no harm, no foul... worked through my trigger at this point and had a great day to be perfectly honest)

=^_^= Ryan

[Nicole Erin]

Depends on how one identifies.
I once had a FTM CD friend, but he didn't really call himself that. tho, he loved it when someone thought he was a guy.
I used to call him "sir".

What this person did identify as is a butch lesbian. He was so butch he farted men's Stetson cologne.

Yes, this person was GG. 100% lesbian. I do believe he was probably transsexual, just has not quite realised it yet. he would have no problems passing.

[Tamara Croft]

Side note, I quoted you (this time) for another reason... what does it mean:

[[ I was micky taking in any way any TG dressed ]] ???

It's a UK saying, means taking the piss out of someone, making fun of someone... you get the idea? And seriously, you need to calm down at Sheila ok?

[BRANDYJ]

I wondered what it meant to. Leave it to the English to mess up the English language! OOPS! Just kidding! Love the different words for different things in England and the US
But ya'all still drive on the wrong side of the road!

[Moe GG]

Well.. I dressed up as a dude once, suit, beard and all, (not Halloween) but even if I'm a tomboy in female mode, I look too girly in guy mode to ever pull it off.
Wouldn't mind doing it again though, especially if I could get a MtF CD to go out with me!

Still, once doesn't make me a crossdresser, so I suppose it doesn't count.

[got2free.Ollie]

ok wow I wanna follow along with what everyone is saying but I'm completely new to the terminology and I'm not sure what the difference is between a FtM TS, FtM TG, FtM and a FtM CDER...Can someone help me understand?