Ultimatum just around the corner

[shannonFL]

After a really good day doing one of my favorite guy things, I felt really happy, began to talk again to my wife about doing something to thaw the arctic freeze between us which has now been going on at least a year. Well, I know how communication can be so important, except we have communicated about this ad infinitum, and it seems to just make it worse.
So, it came down to the "you will have to change". I didn't take it any further, we did agree to be nicer to each other, well, ok. I know what change she wants, just like before we married, made me drive to the dumpster and pitch all my stuff. That was 20 yrs. ago.
All she knows about this is it wrong and she hates it. No way would she ever come here for knowledge, or talk to anyone who could help her put it in perspective. I am finally at a point where I am ready to pay a counselor to help me deal with the years of resentment I have brought upon myself, and the guilt, for the obvious pain I have dealt her. By the way, I am not out, do not really go out, she does not see it, she just knows. Any suggestions?

[Sheila]

rather than pay for a counselor for yourself, how about a relationship counselor for both of you if she would go, as things have been not good for the last year, it would seem that some outside help for you both is what is really needed

[Jonianne]

......Any suggestions?

I wish I could say something encouraging. Sounds like you are trying to maintain self imposed boundries quite well. With my ex, all I wanted was for her to just be OK with me knowing I was a crossdresser. I wasn't asking her to participate or see, just be OK with me staying in the closet. She was OK with me all our marriage while I struggled and purged, but after I started seeing a therapist (she reccomended) I started accepting myself and she started seeing a religious ex-TS counselor who told her to throw my cloths out and make ultimatums and threats of outing me. That didn't work and we didn't last. In time after I left, both my children came to live with me.

Maintain your self-imposed boundries, keep the high ground, be willing to discuss, but stay out of arguments, show her you love her and let her know that more than anything you want to work it out with her so both of you can be as happy as possible.

See if she would go to counseling. She needs to find someone she can trust to find out that her husband's crossdressing is not necessarly the end of the world. But that would depend on who she sees. I wish you both the best. If she won't go, definatly go see a therapist yourself to help you get past the guilt and work on improving relationships with her and others, as well as learning how to grow and maintain a strong sense of self.

[shannonFL]

Thank you Sheila, and Joni...whew...what a coaster ride..
I would of course choose to see a person experienced in tg/cd issues...
which my wife would see as some sort of set-up designed to validate my position...why does it have to be so hard?

[Sheila]

Shannon, if you manage to start actually talking & listening to each other, then perhaps you two will be able to reach a compromise regarding your dressing, fingers crossed

[Donnadcd]

I'm in the same boat as you - and it's not getting any better. She hates it and would never want any part of it.

There is always plenty of helpful advice and great support here.

[Raychel]

It sure sounds like to me that you are in for a bumpy ride. But you appear to be young in your photos, Deal with the issues, and make the rest of your life a happy one, You have to do what is best for youself.

[MissKara]

She was OK with me all our marriage while I struggled and purged, but after I started seeing a therapist (she reccomended) I started accepting myself and she started seeing a religious ex-TS counselor who told her to throw my cloths out and make ultimatums and threats of outing me.

My ex was like this. She made the ultimatum that if I didn't stop crossdressing (And mind you, I was only wearing Panties at this stage) or she'd break up with me I purged because I loved her but after we broke up, Kara returned bigger and stronger than before (Three years later)...

You know the old saying "If you repress/suppress something, it just comes back stronger later"... So I guess I have my ex to thank for Kara :P

Lots of Love,
Miss Kara

[dilane]

All she knows about this is it wrong and she hates it. No way would she ever come here for knowledge, or talk to anyone who could help her put it in perspective. I am finally at a point where I am ready to pay a counselor to help me deal with the years of resentment I have brought upon myself, and the guilt, for the obvious pain I have dealt her. By the way, I am not out, do not really go out, she does not see it, she just knows. Any suggestions?

This will sound harsh, and I don't mean to cause you pain, but this doesn't sound like love to me, sorry. She wants control over you. She knows she's making you miserable or at least very uncomfortable. She wants unconditional surrender. The "my way or the highway" attitude is inconsistent with a loving marriage.

This personality type is usually impervious to counseling, after all they're sure they're right and you're wrong, who needs input?

[Sheila]

This personality type is usually impervious to counseling, after all they're sure they're right and you're wrong, who needs input?

And your qualifications for making that statement are what ?????

You have discussed her wifes life in great detail with her wife to enable you to make that definitive statement ............. I do hope so

[Gerrijerry]

Oh how many times have I heard this. MY wife does not accept me she told me to stop or else. Well hear this. You are a person with feelings also. No one owns you. Of course you love her. However love is a two way street and if she will not see a counselor with you then sooner or later you know what will happen. CD or TS girls can't help being who they are. We can not really change. Every one of us would love to, but we are who we are. I strongly believe there are some things you can't change. My wife and I finally went to a counselor after many many years. It really did help both of us to understand the other. And yes it did make a difference after a year of counseling. It takes time.

[Sherry-Stephanie]

Not that this will help or not...

I went through this last year as well as some other issues the wife was having but the dressing was front and center....and it came to a head with us splitting up and I packed up and went to Florida...(my choice of preference to live BTW)...

Basically it was a "OK you (wife) want to be free and foot loose and fancy free to do what you want to do and I'm going to go and be me"...see ya!!!

Well it's that old adage..."out of site, out of mind or absence makes the heart grow fonder"...

Turns out that "heart won out over mind"...and 10 days after hitting Florida I was heading back to TN. Things have been OK to very good since but not perfect...but dressing doesn't appear to be an issue anymore....

My only regret??? I just wished she made it more like 30 days rather than 10...I didn't get to enjoy Florida as much as I would have liked to....but I also discovered my "roots" are still there and I have told my wife that if she ever says to me again even joking she doesn't want to be married to me any more as soon as the last syllable rolls off her lips I'm gone and I WILL NOT come back from Florida!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bottom line Shannon is this...

You may have to come to that point where you and your wife will have to make that hard decision....to stay and accept/change/compromise or give it up or part ways and find happiness somewhere else....

Staying stuck and being miserable isn't a way for either of you to live...life's just freakin to short to live it that way for either one of you. Some women can accpet us and others no way in hell with they accept it...we all know this by just reading posts and threads from others who have had to deal with this issue.

One thing I learned in our seperation even just for 10 days is "there is life afterwards"...

Good luck girl....

Stephanie

[Magickman]

Being single does have its advantages.

From my early boyhood, I always had problems with authority, and being given orders.

The last thing I would ever do would be to participate in a relationship where
my SO was giving me orders and ultimatums.

Marriage is a poor bargain for men in this era. I am glad that I never married.

[Fab Karen]

Couples counseling would probably be your best hope. "Do what I tell you" isn't love.

[makin' it real]

Hi Shannon. As Sheila, Jonianne, and Karen have already mentioned, couples counseling may be very helpful. A good psychologist (PhD) or Marriage and Family Therapist (MFT) would usually not care one whit about the content of the issues and instead focus on helping you and your wife uncover the feelings underlying the problems and help you learn communication patterns that allow the feelings to be heard.

You're probably right that your wife would probably perceive as biased a therapist experienced in tg/cd issues, so don't make that a condition for therapist selection. Again, the specific problems don't matter as much as how you two handle them. You might consider looking for a therapist whose practice is informed by John Gottman's work. He has done incredible work in figuring out exactly what works and doesn't work in marriages. Rather than start with a theory and try to find evidence supporting it, he and his research team spent thousands of hours closely observing how actual couples interact. They found communication patterns (verbal and nonverbal) common to effective and happy couples and a completely different set of patterns in the dissatisfied and unhappy couples.

He developed a type of couples therapy based on his research, and people using it have had tremendous success in moving through an impasse and in saving damaged relationships. He also wrote a book summarizing his findings which might be helpful too, though no book can be of as much help as a good therapist. The book is The Seven Principles for Making Marriage Work: A Practical Guide from the Country’s Foremost Relation Expert by John M. Gottman, Ph.D. and Nan Silver. His other relationship books are good too, but this does best at giving you the how-to's.

Is your wife even willing to consider joining you in therapy? Unfortunately, Dilane does have a point. A person who issues ultimatums in a relationship rather than engaging in discussions tends to think they've already looked at whatever issues need to be considered and so they foreclose considering other options. The flip side of the coin though is that while their position seems strong and their will resolute, people issuing ultimatums often are covering up just how weak their position is and how scared they are. Your wife may feel backed into a corner because she has no idea how to deal with your CDing, or whatever the other issues are. She may be lashing out with an ultimatum because she's genuinely scared of losing you and the relationship, along with whatever the relationship means to her, and she doesn't know any other way solve the problem.

If you approach her with the possibility of joint counseling, you might couch it in those terms from your perspective, letting her know that the relationship is important to you, and that you are scared that if you don't do this counseling the relationship may not make it. If you say it like that, and mean it, it just may provide an opening that will allow her to acknowledge her own fears and to join you in seeking a solution.

I could be completely wrong on guessing what's going on inside your wife's heart and mind, but I've seen this pattern enough times to think it worth at least mentioning. I wish you both the best of luck. Hugs and hearts to you.

[Maria in heels]

Shannon...plesae please please be very careful about seeing a therapist...they all have different views and many times, they can "push you" down the wrong path. I can tell you, from experience, with my children, that all therapists are not "great". Sometimes, they can "impose" their personal opinion, which is not good, because this could lead you to the wrong result...

I had to deal with my wife many years ago...not on the dressing, but other issues, and she would only "go thru the motions" of the family counseling, which did not lead to much. If the therapist starts with pointing out "who is wrong" in the conversations between the three of you, I can only recommend that you try changing to someone else, as this is only destructive...its never about who is right or wrong, but how can we all work this out....needless to say, we did split up, but after a year, we starting to actually really work on the relationship, and that was 10 years ago..things are much better now, especially for Maria....

I hope that this helps....

[Elle1946]

At first my wife was much the same as yours and we did each see a therapist, she/he, I had the she and my wife had the he and they were both good, we went seperately. Our results is that everthing is OK, she does not want me to go out dressed and I can handle that because anything I want to do in the house and back yard is OK.

[kellycan27]

A woman will protect the nest against threat, whether real or perceived, and will go to great lengths to do so.

[Satrana]

It is always a hard nut to crack when you are fighting against someone's belief system - no amount of facts or arguments will shake them from their core conviction. Your only real hope is to find a third party with whom she can respect and communicate with and allow her convictions to be modified. That is a real hit and miss thing though. If you let her choose the councilor then she will pick someone who she feels will validate her feelings.

One thing you should tell her though is that the long term future of your relationship is in doubt if there is no resolution to this problem. It will only create heartache and resentment for both of you. This is something you do not sweep under the carpet.

[docrobbysherry]

My ex started with "ultimatums", too. We went to see an EXPERIENCED therapist.
While we were working on MY issues that needed modifying, everything was fine. When we started moving on to HER necessary compromises, she was OUT!

We BOTH continued seeing therapists individually. She still does today, over 12 years after we split up.
An experienced therapist can be VERY HELPFUL, whether or not your SO attends. They can help u SEE THINGS CLEARLY! Often, when you're in a living nitemare, waking up can appear to be difficult!

For example, my therapist dealt with my CDing in less than one session!
But, THAT wasn't a major issue in our marriage!

[Karen564]

[SIZE=2]I'm sorry, but most times than not, anytime I heard an Ultimatum is made upon another, odds are in favor of eventual doom of the relationship down the road..[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]I'm in favor of the idea that you both keep communication channels open & for the both of you to see a marriage counselor together, and hopefully that ultimatum can be put to rest & a more flexible arrangement can be made to accommodate the both of you...[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]All you & her can do is try after that, stay flexible, and hope for the best..[/SIZE]

[SIZE=2]Good luck...[/SIZE]

[shannonFL]

I am....genuinely touched,....by each and every thoughtful, understanding, and insightful message I have read after sharing my conflict. A big thanks, as well, to the creators and moderators of this forum, where else is there to go to? It's not like just dumping on a guy friend your marriage is ruined because she wants you to stop dressing like a girl! Being tg is not something I just thought I would try for fun....as all of you understand....had I accepted myself a long time ago, acquired the knowledge which was hard to find (I looked..no web just the library back then) I may have saved a lot of personal grief.
For now, a family/marriage counselor is the only way to diffuse daily tensions, and help us both with either staying together or unwinding what has almost become a toxic relationship.
I will exercise, think good thoughts, take care of myself, reflect on the compassion and empathy I have found here...and try to keep this pesky
moisture....from forming in my eyes.....

[monalisa]

Give your wife an ultimatum. Either deal with it or pack your stuff so I have more room for my clothes. Take a picture of her expression before she hits you with a fry pan that way CSI will be able to solve the case quickly of your demise.
Being single is not all that bad.

[kimdl93]

I think you're on the right path - seek out a good family therapist and take good care of yourself. Who's to say how things will turn out, but you can go forward in life knowing you made a good faith effort.

[Nicole Erin]

It is the reason I am single again. She didn't like "Erin"
I was torn up at first but recovered quickly.