The war between the pants and skirts

[Rianna Humble]

If this is an inner femininity and not just a fetish, wouldn't I (we) be able to feel feminine even in men's clothes?

In my case, it's not that wearing men's clothing makes me feel less feminine. My problem is that wearing those is associated with pretending to conform to the male gender stereotype.

Whether I am forced to pretend to be "him" or free to express my inner self, I still know that I am a woman trapped in the wrong body.

[Fab Karen]

It's a minority who talk that way about GG's. Personally I wear what looks good on me, and makes me feel good. Even if I wanted to wear them, I couldn't get my legs into those tight girl-jeans.

[Alice Torn]

[SIZE="3"]Until about 1967, girls and women wore skirts and dresses, most of the time, including nurses, teachers, almost all professions. It was a more pretty world, then! However, as some have asserted, some trousers are feminine, and look nice on some ladies. There is another gurl that has a strong, and funny opinion on this, and hope she posts.[/SIZE]

[Traci Elizabeth]

I don't think you have a valid point whatsoever.

All we are trying to do is to assimilate with what other females wear. It does not matter what is it they wear from cardboard boxes, military uniforms, space suites or whatever.

We are simple mimicking their style. I don't think it is any more complicated than that.

To assume anything else is really just fishing for "nonsense."

[erika130]

This is a good point
For me, it comes down to how a woman presents herself, be it she's wearing pants or a skirt,
For instance I have totally seen women whom I think are very feminine or present themselves as very feminine & are wearing pants, & they looked sexy I might add, while at the same time women who wore skirts and to me just didn't seem feminine at all

[Carly D.]

To me, I prefer wearing a skirt or dress, and the only pants I wear are those exercise type of spandex goodies.. I don't believe that because I prefer skirts or dresses that I think women should only be seen wearing this.. I don't mind women wearing a pants type of clothing.. But to me, I don't feel like I am cross dressing if it doesn't include pantyhose, heels and skirt.. That is mostly where it all starts for me anyway..

[Elle1946]

You said "If as Cder’s, we identify skirts and dresses as feminine", it isn't the Cder's that made that definition, it is the general population. That is why Cder's have such a problem wearing that attire in public.

[Veronica Nowakowski]

I never had an issue with wearing women's pants, do it often.

[Frédérique]

If as Cder’s, we identify skirts and dresses as feminine, then aren’t we by definition, making a moral judgment on what a woman “should” be? If a woman wears pants, is she somehow less feminine? Aren’t we being just as judgmental, and Chauvanistic, as the “civilians” who judge us for what we wear to define ourselves?

[SIZE="2"]No, I’m not making any sort of moral judgment. It’s nice to see a woman wearing a skirt or dress now and then, but it’s their choice if they want to or not. The fact is, they CAN wear these garments and “pass” through life without censure, while we MtF crossdressers cannot. I simply like skirts, so I like to wear skirts, and you are free to draw your own conclusions…

Is a woman less feminine if she wears pants? This is a ridiculous question, and you need to assess things on a deeper level, my dear. What is your definition of femininity? You can accurately make the case that I am less masculine because I am an MtF crossdresser (I’m telling you so), but you cannot and should not generalize about people, especially your fellow crossdressers. The reasons for wearing the “wrong” clothing are complex and many – it’s not so much an effort to “define” oneself as it is an ongoing mode of expression for one’s internal gender integration. Can you dig it? Whether a woman chooses to wear a skirt or not is completely irrelevant – look within yourself, beyond external appearance, and discover the truth… [/SIZE]

[Renelle]

Glad you chimed-in Frederique.

look within yourself, beyond external appearance, and discover the truth…

That's exactly what I'm attempting. One thing I'm picking up from the Ask the GG's and Inquiring Minds sections is that if we CD's were true to ourselves, we would feel the same regardless of what we wear, just as women do. The fact that we may feel more feminine in one thing and not another gives credence to the idea that we are creating another woman in their place. One of the questions about myself that I hope to answer is, "Is this something within me, or am I creating a poor substitute for something I don't have.

Is a woman less feminine if she wears pants? This is a ridiculous question

I only ask it rhetorically. And yet the question remains, if she is not less feminine, then why are we more feminine while wearing a skirt?

it’s not so much an effort to “define” oneself as it is an ongoing mode of expression for one’s internal gender integration. Can you dig it?

Yes, I think I can. I don't ask these things to offend. I think the GG's raise some valid points in their skepticism of us and we would do well to check our own motivations.

[Tina B.]

Frederique, thank you for putting my thoughts to words, I could never have said it so well.
Tina B.

[Ze]

In response to all of your questions, Renelle: yes.

[dominique]

For me I prefer wearing skirts, but sometimes wear trousers. I might have an old idea that women should wear skirts but thats my opinion. I feel much more of a woman when I wear skirts. Personal preference. You can wear what you want, its up to the person and how they feel.

[sherri52]

I find it hard to relate because I wear all things feminine and feel the same because I wear them. I'm in fem jeans all day long and switch to dresses at night or maybe a nice pair of slacks. A woman is feminine as long as she perceives herself as such. If she choses to dress like a man, she may not be less feminine but she will no have that look

[Sarah Doepner]

For a very long time I wouldn't consider wearing pants as a crossdressing item. I felt that a) I could wear pants anytime, b) I've got a lot of ground to make up where I couldn't crossdress and, c) If I'm going to present as a female I'd better use every feminine cue possible, hair, forms, makeup and something with skirts.

I've found that as I've become more comfortable with my crossdressing that my eyes have been opened to the world of pants. I have 8 or 10 pair that range from jeans to a pink flowing pair with legs that are almost skirts. With heels any of them are as feminine (in my mind) as any skirt or dress I have. Still, if I have the time and option, I'll go with a skirt.

[Stitch]

Wow, my pet peeve in the GG inquiring minds spawned its own thread. Awesome. I'm honoured you found my post such an insight.

Now I realise that many of you don't hold these sentiments but I have come across countless posts on this forum where some gals seem to think that today's women aren't as feminine as the ones in the past, and seem to glorify the clothes from older eras. "GGs don't wear enough pantyhose." "GGs don't wear enough dresses" "GGs don't wear enough heels" At the end of the day we dress how we want to dress and I feel very sexy in my tight fitting trousers. I feel they show off my curves far better than any skirt. I don't wear heels either, but I feel very cute and happy. If I went from some of the views here, I'm hardly a women at all and that saddens me. Thankfully this views are a minority.

I also hate when someone says "that GGs who wear trousers are cross dressing." What year is this? I feel plenty feminine in trousers and have never had any complaints from Men.

Thanks for hearing out my rant.

[Ze]

but I feel very cute and happy.

Because you are and then some.

[Stitch]

Because you are and then some.

Aww Thanks Ze. From you that means a great deal to me.

[Karen564]

[SIZE=2]As a TS woman and since living 24/7, I practically live in my jeans, but they are just low-rise skinny leg jeans, and I love them because there so soft & comfey...[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]But if crossdressers or anyone for that matter wants to think I'm less of woman or feminine for wearing them, then so be it....for I could care less what they think...[/SIZE]

[SIZE=2]I'll still wear what I want, since I still feel very feminine no matter what clothes I'm wearing..I just don't need clothes anymore..[/SIZE]

[SIZE=2]But come summer, I'll be either wearing some shorts & skirts, but only because their cooler..so it's all about comfort for me, not to be someones eye candy..[/SIZE]

[Loni]

what does femininity have to do with what one wears? dress/skirt/jeans/shorts?
i have seen many a man in full boy mode and he was quite feminine, and i have seen many a lady in a dress, skirt, jeans nowhere close to feminine.

as others hare have stated it is not what you have on, it is how you act and believe inside that matters.

me i feel like a lady whether in a skirt or my skinny jeans. but then i also ware my skinny jeans even in boy mode as they just fit better then the baggy stuff in the stores.

.

[DonnaT]

I don't pass judgment on what anyone wears.

I just know what feels good to me, and trousers just don't do it for my gal side. Neither do t-shirts, for that matter.

[TGMarla]

I always wear skirts and dresses. But I admit that the primary reason for this, other than the fact that I absolutely love wearing dresses, is that as a man, I am not allowed to wear them. Same goes for high heels, hosiery, pretty jewelry, and the like. I can toss a pair of pants on any time I want to, but dresses are a treat. So if I am going to take the effort to get all femmed out, I opt for wearing dresses. I do not think that women who wear pants (note: that's all of them!) are any less feminine than women who happen to be wearing a skirt or a dress. But I do admit that I wish women would opt for skirts and dresses a bit more often than they do.

[kellycan27]

One word.. practicality. I wear dresses or skirts when the situation warrants, and jeans when it doesn't

[Lynn Marie]

[SIZE="3"]What I wear has nothing at all to do with any judgement I may have of what women should or should not wear! It's simply what looks and feels good on me. I have a fantasy of the '50s woman and I like to look like that and more to feel like that. I also have more modern clothes that I like the feel of most importantly and the look of also.

To me, two of the most important aspects of the CD experience is how the clothes feel on my body and how the clothes make me look in my mirror. Both aspects are exciting and enjoyable to me and me alone. There is no judgement.

Now if you're talking about stockings verses pantyhose, then I've got some some serious judgements!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!LOL[/SIZE]

[Renelle]

Originally posted by Ze

In response to all of your questions, Renelle: yes.

Thanks for the positive reinforcment. I was wondering when the cavalry was going to come over the hill.

Originally posted by Stitch

Wow, my pet peeve in the GG inquiring minds spawned its own thread. Awesome. I'm honoured you found my post such an insight.

Well, being an old-fashioned, partially sexist admirerer of the Romantic era, I often find women to be inspirational. It's just who I am.

I think you raise an important and often times glossed over issue. I think there is, at least on a subconscious level, an association with skirts being a feminine expression along with the flip side of pants with masculinity. If anyone doesn't think so, then ask yourself this:

If skirts are not feminine, then why don't transmasculine men wear them?

Let's face it, skirts are feminine. This is where so many CDers seem to run into trouble with their GG SO's. Especially if she wears pants (trousers) most of the time, as many do. From her point of view, her skirt wearing SO is an affront to her own sense of self worth. We CDers are inadvertantly insulting GG's in our feeble attempts to find a feminine sense of ourselves.

It really is what is in the heart that matters. I'm coming around to the idea that the extent of my own CDing is a measure of how far I am from a true expression, not how close.