The war between the pants and skirts

[suchacutie]

It takes a lot more than skirt/dresses or pants to define gender. I've never understood this whole topic, in all honesty.

I guess that's why I just changed out of my dress into a lovely teal blue pajama set...pants...!



tina

[Renelle]

Originally posted by suchacutie

I've never understood this whole topic, in all honesty.

Don't worry. I don't get it either. I keep hearing about how we don't define ourselves by what we wear, while we constantly define ourselves by what we're wearing. There's something about the coventional wisdom around here that just doesn't add up.

[~Michelle~]

If you have good looking legs, why hide them?

[Myojine]

i like skirts becuase they are comfy, cute and easy, not becuase they are feminine

[Rianna Humble]

[SIZE=2]I just don't need clothes anymore..[/I][/SIZE]

Won't you get arrested?

[Nicola2876]

I almost never wear pants en femme which is the exact reverse of my wife who wears pants everyday. I have bought women's pants before and think they can look very nice with a pair of heels. I just love skirts and dresses and I tend to wear them when I can.

[Toni_Lynn]

If skirts are not feminine, then why don't transmasculine men wear them?

If I may, I'd like to elaborate on this, and maybe get a response from Milo. Would a transmasculine man wear a kilt?

Its almost too much for me to think of before I've had a cup of coffee!

Huggles

Toni-Lynn

[sometimes_miss]

I don't 'look around' and see what other people are wearing in order to decide what to wear. If I did, as a guy I'd usually be dressed as a slob. I prefer to wear what most would see as dress slacks and a dress shirt most of the time, and if temperature allows, a jacket. Sure, there's a place for polo's and khaki's: On the field. Most other places, a nice pair of slacks and a good shirt simply looks better (IMO). Just the same, I think women look better wearing a pretty dress or skirt; and while most of the GG's think 'dressy footwear' always means some form of heels, I could never subject anyone's feet to that for any length of time, I've seen what long term wearing of heels does to feet, legs and spines. They do make pretty sneakers, after all. So while I do own several pairs of high heels, my favorite outfits are mostly a skirt, pretty white top or sweater set, pantyhose, tights or stockings, and white sneakers with laces color matched to the rest of my outfit. And it's what I like to see women wear as well.

[TGMarla]

Yesterday, while servicing a client, one woman that works there mentioned while talking to another girl there that she never wore dresses. I happened to overhear, and I asked her why not. She said they just weren't for her. She said she didn't like the attention.

I smiled and said to her that if we both wore one, I'd probably get a heck of a lot more attention than she did. She laughed and said, "I'll bet!" I thought it was kind of funny, but it did shed some light on this particular topic.

Anymore, when a woman opts to wear a skirt or a dress, she often does draw attention to herself, since it is becomming more and more infrequent that women do make this clothing choice. It's a shame that it has come to this. But her point is well-taken. She simply does not wear skirts and dresses because it draws too much unwanted attention to her.

[Frédérique]

Glad you chimed-in Frederique.

[SIZE="2"]I appreciate your calm civility. You must wonder where I’m coming from (so do I, at times), but thanks for the restraint…

I was thinking today about your OP, and then I thought about my sister, whom I live with. She is one of the most feminine people I’ve ever known, yet she never wears skirts. I imagine most women equate the garment with impracticality and vulnerability – the latter happens to describe how I feel when I’m wearing them, a sudden awareness or openness that I purposely seek out. I like it, but that's coming from a lifetime of male pants wearing. As such, I don’t (or can't) make a solid connection between skirts and femininity, but I know one thing – they force you to put your legs together and step away from masculinity in a BIG way…

Your “war” theme is also on my mind. Didn’t skirts originate as male* battle garments, and then gradually make their way to present times, kidnapped by children, then women, for stylistic reasons?
*[SIZE="1"]Come to think of it, who else would be battling each other? [/SIZE] [/SIZE]

[Vickie_CDTV]

Strictly speaking, it isn't just the older set who fall into the "dress or skirt and hose only" category. I grew up and came of age in the 80s and I am in my early 30s, and I am firmly in the "dress or skirt and hose only" category.

The idealized sophisticated adult woman in the 80s, at least as I remember it, was in a skirt or dress and hose and heels and less often pants. That was the kind of woman that I desired to be at the time (Joan Collins comes to mind immediately.) I think that had a lot to do with it, though I have always considered myself to be a traditional, rather old fashioned woman as well.

[Renelle]

Calling it a war may have been overstating the case. Maybe intermittent skirmishing would have been more accurate. It looks like I opened up a can of worms, in any case.

Originally posted by Frederique

I imagine most women equate the garment with impracticality and vulnerability – the latter happens to describe how I feel when I’m wearing them, a sudden awareness or openness that I purposely seek out.

I like your idea of associating skirts with vulnerability, rather than femininity. That’s a more gender-neutral term that would’ve shed a little more light and less heat, had I realized it earlier. As if the make-up and accessories aren’t enough, I have to learn a new vocabulary too. Great.

Anyway, I’m going to have to leave it here, for now. I’m off tomorrow for a long planned vacation, away from computers and familiar scenery. Thanks to everyone who added your 2 cents (pence, if you’re British). It’s been fun and enlightening. See you next week.

[t-girlxsophie]

I have to admit I was one or the CDers who thought it less than Womanly to wear trousers,how daft a notion,Now having said that Although I do wear trousers on occasion e.g. bootleg denims and trousers.There's no beating the feeling of nice skirt or dress,with nylons and heels for me,but If I feel like having a day in trousers I know I wont spontaneously combust

[Satrana]

If skirts are not feminine, then why don't transmasculine men wear them?

Classic.

The pants/skirt war is a proxy battle over whether the traditional ideals of feminine are good or bad. Feminists declared that traditional femininity was bad, it signaled weakness and submissiveness to oppressive men. Modern empowered women had to break away from the past and redefine themselves. In order to show that they could compete with men and be their equals women had to accrue the elements of masculinity that supposedly made men successful and powerful - ie a career, independence, self-confidence, sexual aggressiveness and the male dress code hence the widespread abandonment of skirts and dresses.

I know of women who do not own a dress or a skirt. When such a woman finds herself in a situation where a skirt is required they remark how uncomfortable they feel. This is not a practical remark about the clothes themselves but a psychological issue over the perceived message the clothes transmit.

Ask a boy how to turn a boy into a girl and the answer will always be the same - make him wear a dress. Since all female clothes are taboo for males to wear, the association is simplistic and stark - the visual image of a woman = femininity.

This black and white viewpoint is deemed ridiculous because it is contrasted by the equally simplistic feminist notions of bad femininity. Hence we end up with the hypocritical judgement of men being demonized for using classical feminine imagery because women now distance themselves from this look because of feminist zealot ideology.

The feminist war on traditional femininity hardly stops at clothes. Housewives were similarly demonized, even the bearing of children is declared an oppressive burden.

So it is not surprising that many SOs despair when they see their partners gravitate towards traditional feminine looks, behaviors and activities that they have been pressured to cast aside themselves - because REAL women do not look or act that way.

The good news is that the internet if redefining how people think about themselves. They are listening and reacting to other people and turning a deaf ear to propaganda machines. Traditional femininity is actually a statement of strength not weakness and the younger generation are rediscovering this for themselves.

[sfwarbonnet]

From a practical standpoint, it is easier to put on and sraighten a one holer (skirt) than a two holer (pants). I use a wheelchair or scooter, and usually underdress and I need a long skirt that looks like pants when seated. Anyone know where to look?

[MargaretJ]

I've mentioned to my sister, the easiest way to spot a crossdresser, is we are the only ones wearing skirts. I love skirts, as they show of my great legs, and never really considered buying girlie trousers. However I did buy a pair of girl jeans last year, and a pair of trousers recently, to go with a skirt and jacket for the business look, and I have to admit there is something very sensual about wearing girl trousers. They also help conceal my beer gut a bit, and I have a nice looking derriere when wearing trousers. Peace has broken out in the trousers-skirts war, and we are getting along rather well now.

[clandestine322]

Very interesting point Renelle considering both sexes actually have access to both types of clothing. There are skirts for men just as there are pants for women. I want to wear a skirt/kilt just because it is less restrictive and more comfortable than pants. I am not one to think that these articles of clothing define gender. It seems the only difference is the fit. Most times pants are sewn and shaped differently for women as opposed to men.