In hindsight... I was pretty stupid

[dilane]

Boy, are YOU pussy whipped!!

This seems a pretty one way relationship.

Me three.

Geez, you apologized, and it *will* grow back. Seems extreme and, well, very dominatrix-like (hey, some like that humiliation stuff, but I certainly don't!).

I shared this with my wife and she sees it the same way, fwiw.

Anyway, it's your life and relationship. Good Luck.

-- Diane

[ReineD]

I'm on the fence with this one. Emma & Smile did have an agreement, which Smile broke. I don't blame Emma for being angry. I personally wouldn't react as violently, but then I tend to turn my anger inwardly, which is not all that healthy.

The importance here is that Smile sees the consequences as being fair. We don't live in their relationship, we don't know the subtle agreements they have between them. Maybe this is more than shaving legs for Emma ... it is an abuse of trust and to take it further, it drove a wedge in their level of intimacy. Emma is likely angry with this way more than the leg shaving. If this couple is ultra connected (more than most relationships, I dare say), then the potential for anger at having a trust bond ruptured is even greater than couples who aren't so connected, who don't see themselves as being soul-mates at such a deep level. If that makes sense.

There is also something to be said about using an action as a consequence for having agreements be broken, instead of just talking about it, which for many people just doesn't provide results nor does it help them change their behaviors in the future. In CDing relationships, it is not unheard of for the women who talk things through to end up being the ones whose boundaries are constantly changing, stretching. And then they get to a point where they've got way beyond their comfort levels and resentments start to build. That's when the love starts to erode and this is why you end up with wives who, 20 years down the line, wake up one day and say they've had enough. And the CD who looks in the mirror at that point then realizes that she HAS become more a woman than a man.

As mentioned earlier, had I felt as strongly about it as Emma, I would not have cut up the wig or locked the clothes. I would have taken action upon myself rather than my partner. I would have gone to stay with family or friends until the hair grew back. But maybe Emma doesn't have that option.

Now if Smile and Emma have reached a crossroads with the CDing, if Smile is now ready to take it to the next level, which Emma has made clear she is not comfortable with, this would be a good time for them both to sit down and talk seriously about what they will do in the future. Smile, if you are ready to let yourself out more and more and if it is difficult to live within Emma's boundaries, then please be very honest with her now. This might spare you both a lot of pain in the long run. You may both decide that you are not all that compatible.

[pj]

Regardless of agreements or understandings or boundaries, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't want to live with someone who could go off like that. Whatever the problem is.

But that's just me.

[Tamara Croft]

She (the SO) over reacted ................ she did not become abusive FGS, some members here are over reacting, we don't know the full story and THE OP STATES SHE FOUND THIS FAIR

Overreacted is an understatement. And yes it is a form of abuse, it's about having power over another person. It doesn't matter if the OP thought it was fair, the OP came here and told the MTF members that they'd better abide by rules, or it could happen to them and I'm sorry, but not all of us GG's are like that and certainly do NOT want to be seen as being like that. That gives us a bad name!

Maybe some relationships need these kind of rules/boundaries, but when they are broken, there is simply no need to treat someone you're supposed to love like a 5 year old.

[Terri D]

Normally I don't comment on posts regarding problems in a relationship. I'm not married. Currently there is no one in my life beyond casual dating. If you are ok with the parent/child arrangement you have then its all good.
The reason I'm writing this reply is my concern for her career decision. She wants to be a Nurse????? I fear for her patients. I find it hard to believe her volitile personality is reserved just for you.
One day you cross some boundary then she goes to work and takes it out on a patient. Think it's a farfetched thought???? After 20+ years as a Nurse I've seen alot. Maybe too much.
The world needs Nurses. I'm not sure the world needs one that reactive. Good luck to you also.

[RobCD]

I have discussed this with a few of my friends including a married couple who have been together for years and they all agree that cutting the wig was way out of line. Unless you are in a Dominant submissive relationship then this isn't how it should be and I suggest telling her that she went too far and talking about it.

Yes you did set a series of rules with her and yes you broke one of those rules. Tell me this though when you were setting the rules did you agree that if you broke one of those rules she would destroy your stuff, and what happens if she breaks a rule?

Also if she really loved you she would understand that you need to do this. She should love you and want you to be happy and she should understand that people make mistakes sometimes. It's not like you cheated on her or anything like that and its not something permanent and its not even unmanly for a guy to shave his legs. Male swimmers do it all the time. Marriage is about compromise and it has to work both ways or it doesn't work at all.

Sounds like the two of you need to have a serious heart to heart about what your relationship is really about.

[maryannnite]

im glad you have the love of your live ,but im not sure i could live with then rules .my gal dosnt like it when i shave but i dont think i could go with out doing so . good luck

[gemsay32]

Stockings on- Appearance, pretty much spot on, loved not seeing short black curly hair under the nylon.
Feeling... little difference if Im being quite honest. THe tactile enjoyment is neither increased or decreased.

Several years ago I shaved my legs to see how smooth clothing would feel. It was only for the tactile pleasure. I found that the pleasure actually went down. How exactly? Well, I can't say for sure, but having hair on my legs makes smooth clothing feel better! Also I could feel the hair i shaved on my legs resist the clothing, kind of like when you rub your hand on your face after shaving and can feel the hair because you didn't cut it short enough.

[AmandaM]

Wow, just wow. Maybe she should buy you two wigs and apologize. Then you can apologize for shaving your legs without prior agreement. Call it even. renegogiate your needs as you see fit.

[ReineD]

If you are ok with the parent/child arrangement you have then its all good.

There is another possibility. Maybe Smile prefers being in a relationship with someone who calls the shots (with the CDing only?) ... as in a D/s relationship. Isn't it exciting to have someone say when you can or cannot dress for some CDs? Or isn't the idea of being a good girl/bad girl appealing if there is some sort of forced punishment? And some people do get off on fiery tempers. ... just saying.

I wouldn't be too quick to judge the gf, especially since Smile is OK with the whole thing.

Sorry for talking about you in the third person, Smile, but it can't be helped.

[Andy66]

I agree with Kimberly and Tamara. But part of me wonders if we know the whole story. My ex and I had been bickering and fighting for about four years before things had escalated to this sort of reaction. I mean, someone doesn't normally react the way Smile's SO did in an otherwise good relationship. It seems like a "last straw" sort of behavior. I'm not saying that one person or the other started it; I may very well be wrong, but it almost sounds to me like a small part of a bigger, escalating fight. Or maybe the SO did react that way over one tiny thing, which is kind of scary too.

[Kiera79]

I was told I could have it all back when my hair grew back.
If I do it again, she's gone, and that is the last thing I want.



In hindsight... I was pretty stupid[/QUOTE]


No you wern't stupid or nothing. That stuff is yours and purchased with your money. Hell if i would take that. You can have it back when the hair grows back.. I wish my So would say some crap like that too me..

[olga]

Looking at the severity of the punishment and your account that you find that it is fair, it is obvious that you have agreed to a D/s relationship.

I don’t want to intrude in your private affairs here, I just want to make sure that you are aware of this. Otherwise this would constitute an abusive behavior that can be destructive to your mental and physical health.

I hope all is well…

Best,
olga

[Satrana]

I think the hindsight is misdirected - namely you should be thinking about why you agreed to her rules in the first place. Were you so needing her approval that you readily agreed to anything which you thought you could live by? If so you were not thinking long term.

What exactly do these rules mean? You can shave your torso but not your legs? Makes no sense. You cannot pierce your ears why? lots of men do - why not agree not to wear earings in public?

The point is these types of rules your SO imposed on you illustrate her own insecurity and fears. As such they are not fair rules to impose on you and the two of you should be working together to alleviate her fears that lead to them.

Secondly her reaction was infantile and was a form of abuse. That is a parent/child power brokering situation, it means your wife believes she has the moral high ground to dictate and punish you whenever she wants. It means she thinks you are doing something wrong (the crossdressing) so her "acceptance" of it is not what it seems.

I would take this opportunity to have a deep meaningful discussion about how she is coping with your CDing. And unless you want this situation to be repeated over and over again in the future, it is important that she confesses her true feelings and also you need to express where you want to take your crossdressing so that any rules which are agreed upon are mutually satisfactory and take into account the actual situation on the ground.

[CherryZips]

It does feel uncomfortable commenting on such a private matter as this in public. I always flinch reading comments on celebs online.

That aside I agree with the people who think this is generally a bad sign.

Rules were agreed before hand because she is uncomfortable with crossdressing. When those rules were broken she took action to express, lets be honest, her strong dislike of crossdressing. The very action that unsupportive wives take when they find out their husbands are crossdressers. And this was not the shock of discovery but the reaction to something foreseen.

This is not a sub dom thing. Sub dom relationships are about playing games within the bedroom based on trust within a relationship. I think men and women in that scene might see this as unhealthy. Maybe she enjoys having power over him but has not recognised that.

A crossdresser who confesses to his partner is among other things handing them a loaded gun.

The over all feeling I get from threads like this is crossdressers should be greatful they are tolerated.

I'm not sure "I tolerate your existence" is what I would want in a partner. I would prefer to aspire to see dressing as a fun thing that is enjoyed by working around society's rules rather than a partner's distaste.

But Smile if the pair of you can make it work then that's great. Maybe she was just under stress and you can sort things out. Best of luck.

[Pink Person]

You say po-ta-to. I say po-tato. You say supportive partner. I say gender Nazi. Same thing, really. Perhaps I will write a song about this thread and call it "Funeral Dirge for a Doomed Relationship".

Honestly, the way many people describe supportive partners on this site is hilariously nonsensical.

I agree with Little Miss Bossy.

[Sheila]

Honestly, the way many people describe supportive partners on this site is hilariously nonsensical.

I am glad you find me being a supportive partner nonsensical, the OP is I am sure pleased that you find her viiew of her partner nonsensical ............ she did say she found it fair ............. guess I will go try being a non supportive partner, that way Debs can get all the support she needs from her peers without me having to worry about having a bad day & trust me some days being a non supportive partner would be a heck of a lot easier on me cause sure as heck should we find this all a little much some days and OVER REACT, we sure as hell get slated for it

[Samantha_Smile]

Wow!
Ive never managed to start more than a 2 pager before.
Thanks for the response, but I just havent the time to read it all.

A couple of common points I will address though.
-The wig, was a cheap (£10) costume item, that did the job.
And in fairness had lost about a quarter of the hairs through brushing. So it's reall neither here nor there.

-There seems to be this suggestion that I didnt agree to the rules at the start, which is 100% fabrication.
I agreed to it, becuase I understood why the rules had been made.
If she had made the rules without my consent and will, then you may have a point with the whole mother daughter theory. But the very fact that someone decided this was the case without the full fact makes me wonder what kind of relationship they are in with their SO.
I agreed to the rules to protect us as a loving couple who enjoy sharing intimate moments, if those intimate moments are hindered by smooth legs, then I aint gonna want smooth legs.
I love my partner and I enjoy CDing. She knows I cant willfully sacrifice one or the other, boundaries were placed to allow her some re-assurance that Im still hers.

I overstepped the mark.
For those of you who are of the opinion
"Its my hair, I can do as I wish with it"- I ask you, do you also cheat on your SO with the back-up of
"Its my ****, I can do as I wish with it".
It's the same sentiment, youre doing something that the other partner sees as wrong within a relationship setting.

And finally.
The pussywhipped comment.
Thankyou for your PM appollogy, but think before you speak next time eh?

[Jonianne]

.....I knew the rules and boundaries, I broke them.
She got my wig out and cut it in half right infront of me.....

My initial reaction was; was this consequence discussed and a part of the agreed upon groundrules? I am a BIG believer in boundries and groundrules in relationships, but this is something I would absolutely not agree to.

Judges don't have a blank check to issue whatever sentences they want, they are suppose to follow the law themselves and make fair sentences based on the severity of the crime.

However, if the OP actually agreed to this consequence beforehand, then so be it.

But in my case, I also don't shave my legs (and use danceskin tights) and the consequence I discussed with my wife was: If I shaved my legs without talking to her about it first, then (now get this serious consequence!!!) I would have to respond to her asking "What's going on, Joni?"

[Sheila]

Smile, thanks for the clarification that you are in a loving relationship, despite what some seem to think

[Tamara Croft]

"Its my hair, I can do as I wish with it"- I ask you, do you also cheat on your SO with the back-up of
"Its my ****, I can do as I wish with it".

How is cheating even comparable to cutting up a wig? And you didn't answer the questions regarding "did you agree to her cutting up your wig and locking up your clothes?" Maybe you agreed not to shave your legs, but did you also agree to be treated like a child and have no freedom? Maybe you like this, maybe this is a good thing for your life, but as you can see from many posts here, it isn't really healthy. And also, "what rules have you set for her that she has to stick to?" She have to shave her legs because you like them smooth or can she just do whatever she likes?

Sorry, I'm just not seeing the love...

[Kathleen Grace]

Smile,

You were overcome by urges we all understand, you broke your rule but don't feel too bad. You surely didn't set out to do so.

[Paula W]

I can understand her wanting to have rules, but in all honesty I feel the way she reacted was way way way out of line.

A few things, it is your body and you are the one who has to live in it, all she has to do is live with it. Your own happiness with your body should be more important than anyone elses happiness with your body.


It is not her clothes you are wearing, they are your clothes. Do you think it would be fair if the roles were switched? What if you told her not to cut her hair above her shoulder but long hair drove her nuts and she decided to get a short haircut. Do you think reacting by destroying her personal belongings and locking some of her things that she uses for leisure away until her hair grew back is really rational?

I know leg hair is a silly thing to end a relationship over, but I think a serious conversation is in order, it seems she is being too controlling over an issue that is honestly one that should be up to the person living in the body, not the one who has to be around it.

[Marcie4you]

Exactly why I don't marry in this lifestyle, no offense to anyone...at all...

[Rianna Humble]

when Emma got to know the whole truth about me, she imposed 2 rules;
-Never wear her clothes
-Don't change your body to a more feminine look that is permenant or long lasting eg never shave your legs, pluck your brow to a pencl line or pierce your ears. Upper body shaving is accepted as some blokes will do this anyway.
The reason for this rule was simple, when I'm out of skirts and stockings, she wants her bloke back and not a girly boy in mens clothes.
These rules were agreed upon at the start. I had no problem with it, I understood every reason implicitly, she even suggested something called dance skins if I wanted my legs to appear smooth... more on this later).

Boundaries were set and agreed, a positive alternative was offered to the leg-shaving. These boundaries are about trust between two individuals. If Smile had felt them unreasonable, she could have disagreed, but she didn't.

"SHIT! I've shaved my bloody legs!!!!"
I'd have to deal with this later.

I blurted out,
"Er, I need to appologise, Ive kinda shaved my legs..."

Anyway, long and short of it is this
- I knew the rules and boundaries, I broke them.
She got my wig out and cut it in half right infront of me.
I was told I could have a replacement when my hair grew back.

Then she went to my femme clothes with a bin-bag, put all my stuff in the bag and locked them in the old car that is currently SORN, she has the only keys with her now.
I was told I could have it all back when my hair grew back.

Trust was betrayed and the betrayal was met by a measured response - whether or not we agree with the measure

I actually find this fair.

I broke the rules, now my enjoyment of something has been restricted for however long it takes to grow hair.

Smile agrees that she deserved some comeback for betraying her SO's trust. Even the destruction of the wig was accompanied by the promise of a new one when Smile once again complies with the promises she had made.

Boy, are YOU pussy whipped!!

This seems a pretty one way relationship.

Really and how do you come to that conclusion?

I'm with Sandra here, no pussy-whipping, just an immediate response to a betrayal of trust. I'm sure Emma didn't sign up to living with a cross-dresser, but thought she was getting a cisgendered male.

When she either found out or was told by smile, she didn't throw her out, but asked her to agree to some measures to maintain trust. And smile did agree willingly.

Her reaction was destructive and a huge red flag for your future going bad. If you think about it, it seems she was just waiting for you to do something so she could go off on you.

I see no evidence at all for such an assertion

Let's say next time you buy a magazine she doesn't like so she breaks your reading glasses (or, some comparable tit for tat exchange).

If smile has previously agreed that she will not buy that magazine on pain of losing her SO's support for Smile's reading, then and only then would this be a reasonable simile. Under any other circumstances, it is plainly and simply ridiculous.

You both knew that and you both, for your own individual short-sighted reasons, made "rules" for PERSONAL behavior. But, in writing or not, you can't waive your rights to your PERSONAL thoughts and personal actions. If you have an itch, you have the unalienable right to scratch it - "contracts" don't apply.

Would you apply the same logic to an alcoholic? Never mind that they have promised their SO that they will no longer drink, if the urge comes over them, they should break their promise and return to alcoholism? That would be the logical outworking of your reasoning.

As to relationships... She knew you crossdressed and she should know everyone slips up here and there in life.

This is the only part of your post that makes sense to me. She knows that people slip up and she has provided a very strong aid to Smile avoiding that slip-up in future. Emma has not banned Smile from ever cross-dressing again. She has given Smile a chance to earn back the trust that was betrayed, and promised her a new wig to reinforce that behaviour.

I have discussed this with a few of my friends including a married couple who have been together for years and they all agree that cutting the wig was way out of line. Unless you are in a Dominant submissive relationship then this isn't how it should be and I suggest telling her that she went too far and talking about it.

I don't understand no-one who condemns the wig-cutting attaches any significance to the promise of a new wig in a few weeks time.