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Thread: Are we CDers more secure in our masculinity than "real" men?

  1. #1
    Lady By Choice Leslie Langford's Avatar
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    Are we CDers more secure in our masculinity than "real" men?

    I can't speak for the others here, but despite my being a crossdresser, I have never felt particularly insecure about my underlying masculinity.

    Sure, I had trouble in my younger days accepting my feminine side despite the pleasure it provided me because I always assumed that I was some sort of freak, that I was the only male who had these types of feelings, and that "real" men wouldn't be caught dead wearing women's clothes except for maybe a stunt, a dare, or on Halloween - and certainly not because it felt so good and so "right". But that was long ago and during my personal "Dark Ages", and with the knowledge gained since via the Internet and resources such as this Crossdressers.com forum, I've moved way past that point.

    Yet despite all that, I was never in doubt about my heterosexuality and was always strongly attracted to girls. Still, the thing that seemed to set me apart from my contemporaries was the fact that I never had the urge to be a "playa", use (and later discard) women for my own selfish (read: "sexual") needs, lie, cheat on them, or generally disappoint them with Neanderthal-like behavior - in short, to act like a total @$$hole the way many men seem to because they have a need to "prove" their virility. Sure, I like to check out a pretty girl (and what she is wearing ) as much as the next guy, but I regard women as friends, equals, and someone to emulate, as opposed to merely being sex objects or someone to lord it over.

    Except for perhaps back in high school when I was a late bloomer and didn't seem to "measure up" yet to some of my classmates when disrobing in the gym locker room, I never worried particularly about my penis size (I figure I'm pretty average), nor my ability to perform. Sure, time has taken its toll, and sometimes I need the help of the little blue pill like so many others in my age bracket, but I never really fretted about the possibility of becoming impotent or facing the other ravages of advancing age such as decreased libido, hair loss, greying hair, and prostate problems etc.

    I also can't remember experiencing any sort of distinct mid-life crisis, and the closest I ever came to buying the proverbial convertible "chick magnet" sports car or monster truck or SUV during that point in my life was a fully loaded mid-1990's Pontiac Bonneville SSEi, and that was mainly because it could slice through slow-moving traffic like a hot knife through butter, and not to compensate for penis size and/or possible performance anxiety issues.

    And yet, during the same time I became increasingly comfortable with my "Leslie" side, and she is now a bigger part of me than ever before. I find that my male and female sides seem to live in perfect harmony with each other now, and in fact, actually complement each other. I am also becoming increasingly aware of how this is a true "gender gift", and one which has made me a far better balanced (and more interesting) individual than most of the one-dimensional women/booze/sports obsessed "real" men that I come into contact with daily, and whom I really have to force myself to act like in order to fit in and not drop any hints of my "second self".

    In short, I have reached a point in my life where I feel very comfortable within my own skin as a human being as opposed to being defined primarily by my sex and/or gender, yet by all conventional standards, I should probably be labelled a misfit and be totally screwed up psychologically - NOT!

    I'm just curious to find out if there are many others out there who feel as I do, and who have also been able to achieve that sense of inner peace by finally knowing who they are and being comfortable in that knowledge - and the rest of society, its strictures and taboos, and all those homophobic alpha males out there be d@mned!

  2. #2
    Senior Member joannemarie barker's Avatar
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    i'm just happy being me i wouldn't say i was masculine or label myself hetrosexual.i'm just me.i wouldn't wish the girl in me to go away thats for sure x

  3. #3
    Just a little mouse. Babette's Avatar
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    I with Joannemarie on this one. I'm really content with who I am and never felt insecure, inadequate, over secure or whatever. More than anything, I'm simply pleased that my health is good, there is a roof over my head, plenty of food in the cupboard, and I have a loving family. After that, nothing else seems all that important.

    Babette
    Someone else's imagination is a terrible thing to waste.

  4. #4
    Member ColleenW's Avatar
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    H Leslie -

    I know what you mean when you say "... I had trouble in my younger days accepting my feminine side...", I experienced the same feelings when I first discovered the joys of crossdressing. I must admit though that there were times when I really wondered about my heterosexuality and if transitioning to female would be the best thing for me to do.

    I've never been attracted to men however, sexually or otherwise and I really don't like, as you so aptly describe it: "...one-dimensional women/booze/sports obsessed "real" men...". I've never liked this type of male, who thinks the only way to prove his masculinity is to be a jerk and can't understand why any woman would put up with this sort of boorish behavior. Nor can I understand why any woman would accept a relationship in which she is only a sex object.

    As I've gotten older I've found that both parts, the male and female, of my personality compliment each other and that there is a balance. My thoughts about transitioning were really driven more because of the social restrictions about expressing the feminine part of my personality (including crossdressing -- back in my youth it was talled being a transvestite -- and had extreme negative connotations). Things have gotten better as time has gone by though and I think there is slightly less problem with men expressing more feminine characteristics. I realize now that I am heterosexual and that I would not be happy transitioning and that I really enjoy women for who they are and what they are.
    ColleenW

  5. #5
    Trying to find balance wishing2bali's Avatar
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    I agree and feel the same with just about everything you described Leslie. Yes I had issues feeling inadequate compared to my fellow classmates when growing up, but what grade-schooler didn't? I was very, and I mean very closed off in high school, I maybe had 3 or 4 friends, and anytime we would hang out or do something "manly" I was always the one that would just sit out, and say go ahead I'm fine, and just sit and observe, making it a point to never act the way they did. It just wasn't me.
    I have always been able to say something or act somewhat "girlish" and feel totally secure with myself, no matter what company may be present. I may have been called "gay" or heard "you're a homo", but have never been embarrassed by acting this way.
    I will admit I am not out to anyone except to the lovely people on this site, but I am more secure with masculinity than any "real" man I know.

    Personally I feel that WE are the "real" men because WE can embrace our femininity, whether in private or in public, and still be 110% comfortable with every second of it. How many supposed "real" men do you know that could pull off being or acting feminine with our composure and be completely comfortable while doing so? I personally don't know of any.....

  6. #6
    Aspiring Member Cheryl James's Avatar
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    Most of what you wrote could be said of me as well. I am not, nor have I ever been, attracted to males. I am, truly, attracted to females (and what they are wearing, of course). My male side is a good guy with no glaring abnormalities (unless my wife's opinion about CDing is considered). I think, though, that as a kid I may have tended to overcompensate for my maleness by becoming an athlete. If a ball was involved, I played it, usually well. Now, was that a compensation (maybe) or was I just one of those guys that liked and was good at sports (maybe). Probably, though, it is a little bit of both.

  7. #7
    Mischief Maker Lexine's Avatar
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    Truthfully, going out en femme has given me some insight as to how much women go through in order to look beautiful for us, and with that I've gained much appreciation with what they have to go through in their daily lives. So when my girlfriend said that she was going to try on some clothes when we went shopping one day, I didn't complain and just said, "Okay!" LOL

    There was maybe a short period when I thought that I was probably bisexual, but when it came down the wire when I had to prove that I was open minded enough to do so, my physiology denied me of that opportunity. This was pretty much a point when I knew I was definitely male deep inside, but one who grew up learning feminine traits and slowly incorporating them into how I express myself. I've mentioned it several times in the forums that I mostly was brought up my women with barely any male role models, which is why if you actually met me in person I'd react to something in several different ways with aspects of both genders represented. Melodic intonation was something that I noticed that my aunt did early on and that was slowly adapted into my speaking pattern the more I was exposed to it.

    I've always believed that gaining context to a particular idea can better a person's understanding of said idea, and I think that's exactly what we're doing by indulging ourselves in femininity.

  8. #8
    The best of both worlds Kathi Lake's Avatar
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    Well, in my younger days, I wasn't sure what "masculinity" even was - I only knew that I didn't measure up.

    Now, I feel I have a different view of what it should be, rather than what the world thinks it is. I do not believe it is like the macho or machismo views that the world seems to hold. It is almost as if the world views masculinity not for what it is, but what it isn't. What it isn't - according to the world - is us.

    I feel very secure in my so-called masculinity. I am loving and protective of my wife and other women I come into contact with (well, more protective than loving with strangers ). I try to be a good provider to my family (though my wife outdoes me in this area . I try to be a good father (and mother, when needed) to my children.

    Am I secure in my masculinity? Sure! I don't feel that slipping into a pair of heels or even the weight of my adhesive forms on my chest makes me one iota less masculine than the tobacco-chewing, mouth-breathing, iron-pumping, misogynistic twerps that have an entirely different view of masculinity than mine.

    Kathi

  9. #9
    Ice queen Lorileah's Avatar
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    Wait, have you all lived MY life? Are we all in some sort of Twilight Zone thing where we walk alike, think alike are really just clones? The Stepford CD's?

    It looks like in general, everyone who has posted so far has been on the same train.

    I wasn't the one who broke hearts in high school. I was the one the women came running to when their hearts were broken. The sympathetic one. "Gee you understand so well, you are like my sister (or brother)" No, no! Wait I don't want to be your sibling I want to go OUT with you!

    I was the one they came to to see if the outfit "worked". (Oh yeah...it works...say how about we...no huh...ok we'll talk in few days).

    "Hey buddy, can you chug that whole thing?" Why? I sort of like to taste it going down...not coming back up.

    "Heh heh....don't you want to hit that?" uh no...but she is pretty. I like her hair.

    "What's a matter? You 'fraid to fight me?" No, I am afraid of the pain I'll feel afterward.

    "Crush that can on your forehead" Sounds like a lot of fun....yeah...eh..no. I'll just stomp it with the largest muscle on my body...my legs. You go ahead and use the largest muscle on yours...if that's your forehead. Well so be it.

    It wasn't being insecure in my masculinity. I could do any manly thing I wanted to do, but why? In the animal world that is how they weeded out the not so bright adolescent males from the pack. "Hey, young pup, see if that is really a trap....dang bad luck dude. Oh well..."

    I look at the jocks and cool guys from my youth and I would not be them for anything. How does the song go? "Glory days"

    I am who I am. As I always say I just don't my last words to be "Hey ya'll watch this."
    The earth is the mother of all people and all people should have equal rights upon it.
    Chief Joseph
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    “Love isn't a state of perfect caring. It is an active noun like struggle. To love someone is to strive to accept that person exactly the way he or she is, right here and now.” - Fred Rogers,

  10. #10
    The avvy pic isn't me
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    Yepper

    Exactly, everything you said Leslie pretty much sums me up. And Lorileah took it a bit further, i had lot's of "girls as friends" type GFs. Who seemed to always want to tell me about every time their BF was bothering them......"gee, that's too bad, i'd treat you like the princess you are".

    I recently went to start a facebook account, after being on 5 minutes, 6 or 7 of the jerks i used to hang out with in H.S. (to be cool?), popped up in front of me; uh, no thanks, so i closed it out.

    Even with the new "striving for femininity" path i've embarked on recently, i'm still just as masculine today as i was at any time in my adult years.
    Good thread, thanx Leslie. mj (Cassie)

  11. #11
    Aspiring Member NiCo's Avatar
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    I'm not a CDer, but...

    Good points here. I often felt less of man because of my situation. I was always told by my younger brother [I don’t know if he did it on purpose or by accident] “men have muscles” “men have deep gravely voices” … men this, men that… “real men” this and that blah de blah…yeah but he eventually ate his words when he seen me, only a year into T and built bigger than he is, muscle wise. Maybe smaller in height but not by much. Voice deeper than his, even deeper than my older brother, or so many family members have said.

    But I lacked what a lot of “real men” have…ten points for who guesses the right answer?

    Aye. That.

    I asked my brother what made a “real man” and that was his reply. I said “so you are trying to say to me that having a penis is what makes you a real man? What if one day during your drug induced craziness you have an accident and it’s gone” he did not answer.

    What I meant was that although anatomy is different, he and others will never see that part of me…I can still compete up to the scratch of a cismale even without a penis. And a lot on this site and others have told me [when I asked if they would date a FtM] they wouldn’t because they lack a penis…I tear myself apart about it and hate myself and actually war with my own self!

    I still sometimes argue with myself if I am a real man or just a pretender. I know mentally I am…but bodily I never will be. Not talking about chromosomes, I don’t have that issue [hence why my family are finally all accepting me and getting back in contact, they know mother nature screwed up, not me].

    You are what you WANT to be…not what you were given at birth or forced upon you during childhood/ teenage years etc.

    It’s your life, it’s your only chance and the only chance you will ever have so make it a good one. One to remember. One to be celebrated! I just need to remind myself every day of that, during the low times and following the horrible reminder from people that I am at a disadvantage. But at the same time, I have the advantage of life experience that they people will never get. And I’m grateful as well as grieved.

    good luck.
    Last edited by NiCo; 06-17-2010 at 06:58 PM.
    [SIZE="3"]-Broken out of a window in hell-[/SIZE]

  12. #12
    The Girl will Out! Kaz's Avatar
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    I guess a problem with a long post is that no-one reads it... they pick their bit and comment on it..

    So I will comment on the last bit (as the rest seem to have been covered)...

    Am I happy in musculinity..? ie do I still want to be me... YES! But do I want to have Kaz around? YES.

    Am I happy mixing the two... yes, but it does cause problems.

    Am I happy to live with those problems? So far so good!

    On the school thing... I am so old I don't remember!

    xx

  13. #13
    The Girl will Out! Kaz's Avatar
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    NiCo,

    I have never been an "Alpha" male. My teenage years were a long time ago and thankfully we were able to be different... and I was...

    But yeah, I never did muscles, I don't play football, I don't do stupid men pub games, etc...

    There are loads of guys out there who don't do stereotype. Right now I want to kill every male drinking cheap lager and watching football.

    Am I a real man... who is? Show me one... I'll show you a stereotype.

    To me a real man is someone who spent his life learning and teaching others what he learned. He stood up for what he believed in, and when he was shown to be wrong, he accepted it and built on his thinking. He always looked out for the plight of others and did what ever he could to help them. He stood firm in times of challenge, but accepted other's considered opinions. He was always generous, kind an forgiving, but never ever shirked responsibility and was the first to act in times of crisis.

    I am sure there is loads more... oh yeah... he has to have a muscley body and a six-pack, good bone structure and hair!

    Well if you disregard the last bit... I am happy being Kaz


    Quote Originally Posted by NiCo View Post
    I'm not a CDer, but...

    Good points here. I often felt less of man because of my situation. I was always told by my younger brother [I don’t know if he did it on purpose or by accident] “men have muscles” “men have deep gravely voices” … men this, men that… “real men” this and that blah de blah…yeah but he eventually ate his words when he seen me, only a year into T and built bigger than he is, muscle wise. Maybe smaller in height but not by much. Voice deeper than his, even deeper than my older brother, or so many family members have said.

    But I lacked what a lot of “real men” have…ten points for who guesses the right answer?

    Aye. That.

    I asked my brother what made a “real man” and that was his reply. I said “so you are trying to say to me that having a penis is what makes you a real man? What if one day during your drug induced craziness you have an accident and it’s gone” he did not answer.

    What I meant was that although anatomy is different, he and others will never see that part of me…I can still compete up to the scratch of a cismale even without a penis. And a lot on this site and others have told me [when I asked if they would date a FtM] they wouldn’t because they lack a penis…I tear myself apart about it and hate myself and actually war with my own self!

    I still sometimes argue with myself if I am a real man or just a pretender. I know mentally I am…but bodily I never will be. Not talking about chromosomes, I don’t have that issue [hence why my family are finally all accepting me and getting back in contact, they know mother nature screwed up, not me].

    You are what you WANT to be…not what you were given at birth or forced upon you during childhood/ teenage years etc.

    It’s your life, it’s your only chance and the only chance you will ever have so make it a good one. One to remember. One to be celebrated! I just need to remind myself every day of that, during the low times and following the horrible reminder from people that I am at a disadvantage. But at the same time, I have the advantage of life experience that they people will never get. And I’m grateful as well as grieved.

    good luck.

  14. #14
    Jayme jayme357's Avatar
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    I was depressed until I read Kaz's response. What I read from most responders was an extraordinary series of rationalizations. (Please forgive me my loving sisters). We can come up with all sorts of reasons why we do what we do and for each of us these reasons make sense. I too have done some rationalization and come to terms with who I am and no longer make excuses. In fact, I have found that the more I "approve" of myself the more supporting my partner is. Having said all that I will confess to having pangs of remorse when I see a loving couple, lovely wife, handsome and masculine man, perhaps a young child, and realize that I have denied my wife that seemingly perfect life. It's not that I'm not masculine - there are few people who do more "macho" stuff than I do - but there is still something "different". Don't misunderstand - I relish the difference. I don't even know if I would change things if I could. But, I know, and if you will be honest with yourselves, you know, that we are the great rationalizers of the world as we defend who we are. Kaz nailed it.

    Hope I haven't used up all my good will!

  15. #15
    Silver Member AmandaM's Avatar
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    I don't feel masculine enough to deicde. I'd say I'm secure in my ambivalence.

  16. #16
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    Hi Leslie....how you expressed it pretty much sums it for me. I was never what you would call the high testosterone male (tried it, hated it, wasn't good at it, absolutely did not want the t-shirt). I was usually very shy around women when it came to asking them out on a date, but never had any problems when talking with them about any subject. I've always been protective of my sisters and mother, as well as my wife (when I was married), but felt the need to broadcast it. I am perfectly at ease with both sides of my persona and actually feel very fortunate (and oh so happy) that I was able to discover this side and explore it more completely rather than hiding it away, afraid to face it.

  17. #17
    GG ReineD's Avatar
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    The measure of a real man is one who doesn't feel the need to prove it ... you know, the strong, silent (not boastful), self-assured type. Come to think of it, the same description could be used to measure a real woman. A quiet, self-assurance.

    Lorilea brought up the crude comments and inane virility contests that boys engage in. I raised 3 boys while doing my best to teach them to be in touch with their feelings, to be sensitive. I did not discourage them from "playing house" with dolls when they were toddlers who were merely wanting to emulate the world around them. They had stuffed animals in their rooms until their teenage years. One loved to collect cute monkeys and small figurines. But they also liked to shoot things ... arrows and bb guns at bulls-eye targets. So did I when I was a child. One was good at all sports, the other two, not so much until their teen years. One is an artist and musician. All of them are kind and are favorites among all their girlfriends' mothers. I've no idea what sort of peer pressure they were exposed to during their adolescence, and I'm sure there were all kinds of "dumb" contests such as Lorilea described. And I've no doubt my sons did their best to keep up, as a rite of passage.

    But I've not seen these behaviors with me or around their girlfriends. They do not abuse or use girls, and they're not afraid to say they don't like snakes or spiders. Most of the men I know do not behave in the stereotypical way that I've seen described in this thread. My dad, my uncles, cousins, my brother, my ex, my sons. But then I'm not a male interacting with them and maybe most men do show their softer, more sensitive sides to the women around them, more readily than they show it to their peers. Two of my brother's sons are into men's fashions big time. They're fastidious about it really, and no one thinks there is anything odd about this. My brother and I don't talk sports or guy things. We talk about our fears, hopes, issues with partners ... just as I would with any girl friend.

    Just sayin ... although I'm glad to read all the posts from people who don't feel their masculinity is threatened, I don't think the real world of men is as boorish and neanderthalic as many in the forum might like to believe? At least ... not when these men are in the presence of women.
    Last edited by ReineD; 06-18-2010 at 12:45 AM.
    Reine

  18. #18
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    I think so absolutely! This has showed itself to me in the last month when I started going to a new gym, previous gym was family oriented. Where I live cowboy hats and soup strainer mustaches are the norm, so this is first MAN MALE locker room I've been in in quite some time.

    My thought on the first day, the carpet squishes with testosterone when you walk. There were/are all ages and it is daily naked cat walk competition, it's funny as H--- to watch. I sense insecurity and need to prove.

    I have always been, the word is androgynous, male & female, in my head. My best, closest,confident friends have always been girls, even when married, and I was the multiple sport letterman, letterclub president-head jock and all that crap. Here's a good defintion; Androgynous:Botany describes a plant species in which both male and female flowers occur in the same flower head

  19. #19
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    Are we CDers more secure in our masculinity than "real" men?

    Short answer....YES!!!!!!

    I do have a long explanetory answer, but why write a chapter when one word will say exactly what you mean!!

  20. #20
    Platinum Member Sheila's Avatar
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    From this GG's point of view I would find it difficult to answer for the majority of CDers as i only know a few of you in real life........... as we know we can be anybody we like on here, say anything we feel like (well unless we go overboard and upset the overworked underpaid, stressed out mods & admins)

    The members whom I have got to know real well in RL from my time here have turned out to be absolute stars, they are the type of people who I surround myself with in real life ............... ow wait spending the hours/days with them I have means it is a real life


    Take away any gender dysphoria from the equation (for many of you do have/suffer from that) and I think you are as secure/insecure in yourselves as any other male or female on the planet ........

    Why does so many things on here have to come down to contests between genders or between the same gender ............ one could almost say you can lead a take the male to the dress shop, but you can't make him dress ...... (if you think about it it is your fem side who is dressing (for those of you with two distinct sides ) in other words sometimes no matter the dress code boys will be boys and competitions will be held to see who is the biggest/best/boldest/stupidest/craziest
    I allow myself to set healthy boundaries ..... to say no to what does not align with my values, to say yes to what does.
    Boundaries assist me to remain healthy, honest and living a life that is true to me

  21. #21
    Junior Member Cherie's Avatar
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    i have just read your thread and it is good to hear someone feels the way i feel. I work in a male dominated industry full of insecure big ego men i also went through my dark stage and i think i have come out a better person as Cherie
    Last edited by Cherie; 06-18-2010 at 03:21 AM.

  22. #22
    Lady By Choice Leslie Langford's Avatar
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    LOL!, Cassie...

    Quote Originally Posted by MsMjSerene View Post
    Exactly, everything you said Leslie pretty much sums me up. And Lorileah took it a bit further, i had lot's of "girls as friends" type GFs. Who seemed to always want to tell me about every time their BF was bothering them......"gee, that's too bad, i'd treat you like the princess you are".

    I recently went to start a facebook account, after being on 5 minutes, 6 or 7 of the jerks i used to hang out with in H.S. (to be cool?), popped up in front of me; uh, no thanks, so i closed it out.

    Even with the new "striving for femininity" path i've embarked on recently, i'm still just as masculine today as i was at any time in my adult years.
    Good thread, thanx Leslie. mj (Cassie)
    ...and from some of the responses that I am seeing here, there is much common ground on the subject of us CDer's being the ones whom GG's often turn to when they need someone on whose shoulders they can cry about how badly their biker boyfriends (or the like) are treating them when - Hello! - they seem to be completely oblivious to the fact that from an emotional standpoint, they would be so much better of with a caring, empathetic male of the type that we often are. And we'd even go shopping with them, give helpful advice, and not sit outside the fitting room looking bored, disinterested, and as if someone had just shot our dog as most "real" men seem to when their SO's are trying on clothes for what seems like an eternity to them.

    Yes, I've had to do my Ann Landers routine many times in the past as well for similar reasons. But sadly, many GG's are often attracted to the dangerous "bad boys" for reasons best known to themselves, but most eventually do outgrow that once they've finally gotten fed up being treated like crap. Then again, others like Sandra Bullock, well...they still seem to make bad choices in the naive belief that love does conquer all, even when they really should know better.

  23. #23
    Accepted by me and mine Andrea's Lynne's Avatar
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    You very well could have been describing my journey into adulthood! I know EXACTLY what you mean, Leslie!
    Love

    Lynne

  24. #24
    Female Illusionist! docrobbysherry's Avatar
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    Yes, Leslie!

    I'm QUITE certain that "REAL MEN" look like my avatar! (Or, TRY to anyway!)
    U can't keep doing the same things over and over and expect to enjoy life to the max. When u try new things, even if they r out of your comfort zone, u may experience new excitement and growth that u never expected.

    Challenge yourself and pursue your passions! When your life clock runs out, you'll have few or NO REGRETS!

  25. #25
    Gold Member Alice B's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    San Diego
    Posts
    5,310
    Interesting question, with a wide range of answers. For me I would say yes. By knowing and accepting the male and female sides of my personality I feel that I am more balanced. As we grow up we are told by a wide variety of sources what we are supposed to be and how we are supposed to present ourself. Often being or acting in ways to confirm that view and not really being who we really are. With age and I hope maturity we come to learn who we truly are and become comfortable with ourself. Of course many never get there.

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