What are they saying ?

[Nicole Brown]

Hi Sis,

That was a terrible thing for her to say to you, and it was most likely said to influence you to change to her way of thinking. She obviously is trying to change you to what she wants and is not taking your feelings or needs into consideration. People are most probably not laughing at you, facts be told, they most likely don't even notice you. People today are so self involved or just busy that they don't take time to look around them.

Relax and just enjoy being Kim, you are a beautiful, charming and lovely lady who needs to look at the source of nasty comment and act accordingly.

[TxKimberly]

I think you hit the nail on the head - who cares what they say or think behind your back? This is YOUR life and it's YOUR choice if your gonna spend it miserable or try and enjoy it.

Gotta go - time to get ready and go window shopping, and I don't give a care who says what after I walk away.

[ReineD]

Your wife is saying that to hurt you of course

Was she, I wonder, asleep during the wedding vows?

OMG! Your wife actually said that to you?! What a horrible and hurtful thing to say to the person you are supposed to be in love with!

That was a terrible thing for her to say to you, and it was most likely said to influence you to change to her way of thinking.

With all due respect to the people I'm quoting, how do you know WHAT Kimberly Ann's wife is thinking? Maybe she's just scared. Maybe she doesn't know where the CDing is going. Maybe she feels that people are laughing at her too. Maybe they have many other unresolved issues in their marriage and it isn't about the CDing at all.

Kimberly Ann, you said your wife is condescending. Does your wife say outright that she will not support the CDing and that she will have nothing to do with it? If she does participate to a degree, then please don't take her difficulties with wrapping her mind around it as an outright disapproval of what you do and a wish to hurt you over it.

If she does this then your marriage has deeper issues than a mere dislike of the CDing. I hope you'll take the time to sit down together and get to the bottom of why she feels the way she does. If the two of you have been out in public together and she's seen some people staring and smirking, then it may take her a while to believe that it is not everyone who feels this way. I know that it was hard for me as well, when I was beginning to go out with my SO.

[JaytoJillian]

Sorry for the long post.

I'm just sorry that they don't make many like you. Lovely post, Reine.


Cheers,



Jillian

[kimberly ann487]

First I'd like to say thanks to everyone for their input. In defence of my wife she was very emotional when she said what she said. I've had past transgrestions that I feel I've controled, so she is lumping my dressing as a continuance of the past. These recent blowups have put us on the path to resolve these problems, I hope. Maybe if we do she might understand if not accept. As someone questioned she will never accept my dressing no way no how, she has said as much. Go easy on her, she wasn't the subject of my thread, wether we feel laughed at was.

[tricia_uktv]

Its what you are saying that counts!

[mklinden2010]

First I'd like to say thanks to everyone for their input. In defence of my wife she was very emotional when she said what she said. I've had past transgrestions that I feel I've controled, so she is lumping my dressing as a continuance of the past. These recent blowups have put us on the path to resolve these problems, I hope. Maybe if we do she might understand if not accept. As someone questioned she will never accept my dressing no way no how, she has said as much. Go easy on her, she wasn't the subject of my thread, wether we feel laughed at was.

K,

Earlier, I asked, tongue in check, if your wife might have been asleep during the wedding vows.

The point to be made is that such comments, even if said in a highly emotional state, cannot be reasonably helpful to anything but giving cause for divorce, or, at least, unhappiness.

Would anyone buy, "emotional cruelty" as a reason for action these days? I think many would... And, probably do. Perhaps more should.


R,

I don't know what she was thinking, only what was said of her words.


In any event, such "accidents" have consequences - one way or another.

She can wreck the marriage outright, or, she can wreck him, or, both of them, in time with such words.

Are there any other likely outcomes from such a course?

Discord is not the reason for, or, balm of marriage.

[kimmy p]

Yup, some jacka$$ will laugh at us. These same people will laugh at people with disabilities, mental issues, anyone who looks different... You get my point. If my wife was more comfortable with it I would just admit my clothing preferences at this point, and let people laugh. I learned how to ignore that juvenile crap in grade school.

[Jennifer N J]

My wife was venting at me the other day, in her usual condesending way. One of the things she said is that even if people are nice to me to my face, they are laughing at me behind my back. Aside from being hurt by this, I wondered should I even care ? I feel I look pretty good though far from passing. It's funny but I never felt anyone was laughing at me. Is this a big fear of some of us ?

HI. Of course some who are kind to you in your face are going to laugh behind your back. This is no surprise, but dont let it bother you. Be yourself, its their problem not yours. From experience unless your completely passable, people will know. So put all behind and just be yourself. It also seems that this type of remark is expected from your wife too.

[wanagione]

I'm sure that the times i have been out that people have made comments or laughed or whatever. It used to bother me it doesn't now. I have 3 examples, first , the first time i was really out in public eating lunch, she left the table and left me to pay the bill, a guy was staring at me from across the room, I finally staired back and looked him in the eye and he stopped looking at me. He never said anything to me at all. The second thing is at a tg confrence the night before it started I was in the hotel resturant and a girl came in I was in drab. there was a table of guys eating, they started laughing and making cat calls, the manager came right over to the table and spoke with them. They never said another thing of even looked at her. I'm sure they still talked about it quietly at the table. But the point is the manager stood up to them and respected her. The last thing is also at the hotel,there was a group of families there for a wresting tournament. When we were the the bar, all the girls and those moms and dads it seemd that the ggs were the ones with the issues about us being there. I would watch them and they actually looked pissed that we were there. But also they were in sweats and tee shirts and we were all dressed to the nines! LOL. I guess my point is that people may or may not care, will talk or not, you have to find the courage in yourself to be yourself and get out there. Times are changing but slowly. It's a shame that we can't unite and come out more as a group and demand the respect like the gay/lesiban groups. If people knew who we are ( not the people on Jerry Springer) We are educated, successful, and good people. The word would be suprised! Ok i hope it wasn't off track and I made my point, i ramble alot.

[mklinden2010]

.... It's a shame that we can't unite and come out more as a group and demand the respect like the gay/lesiban groups. If people knew who we are ( not the people on Jerry Springer) We are educated, successful, and good people. The word would be suprised! Ok i hope it wasn't off track and I made my point, i ramble alot.

W,

Gays and lesbians, as a bundled group, moved the dialog above the neckline and into the head space where most people live - and want to be left alone.

"Huh. Well, I wouldn't want to be treated that way either."

CDers seem stuck sorting their "lady undies" into good, better, and best piles and seem not to have even begun sorting out their thinking beyond that.

"Those are not women's clothes. Those are MY clothes."

All sorts of people appear on Jerry Springer. Single moms, apartment managers, cab drivers, bankers. Yet, I don't hear single moms, apartment managers, cab drivers, or bankers complaining about Jerry Springer setting them up for hapless social disapproval over and over again...

Jerry himself has said of his show, "It's just a STUPID show." That stupid show is just stupid entertainment for stupid people. There are smarter people to deal with - people who can get things done for others.

CDers don't seem to try very hard to reach and influence these people, which is very odd considering they are some of these people - as you just said.

I don't think the world would be surprised that so many good people CD.

I think they'd be surprised, however, that so many good people do so little to show some pride in themselves and not "let" only things like the Jerry Springer Show speak about and thus for them...

You get the rights you work for and earn.

If you don't reach for them and claim them, someone else will.

But, that's not Jerry Springer's fault...

That's just life.

[Von]

Clearly I'm going to be in the minority (but hey, everyone should be tolerant of the minority here, right?).

I have to believe that Kimberly Anne's wife didn't make this up out of the blue - either there is some truth to it (as there probably is for most people at some point), or it is her mistaken (but genuine) perception. My assumption is that she is trying to protect them both. She may be mistaken, or misguided, but I don't assume it was malicious. Just because something hurts doesn't mean it was designed to. I suspect that she tried conveying the point in less direct terms, and when she felt she wasn't getting through, became frustrated and blunt.

If you leave your zipper down at work, the person that tells you isn't the mean one just because you were embarrassed to find out - that person was willing to do something uncomfortable for both of you in order to lessen your embarrassment in the long run.

Everyone I've ever been close to knows I like to hear the unvarnished truth. That doesn't mean they have carte blanche to start pointing out every flaw, or that they should be insensitive, or intentionally hurt me. We are by nature limited to one perspective. It's why when we here our own voices recorded for the first time we tend to be surprised how we sound.

Think of a popular TV show where the general public is invited to audition for a singing competition. If you've seen such a show, you've seen people who are genuinely convinced that they have great voices, but in reality can't remotely carry a tune. Those people didn't have someone willing to bear the uncomfortable burden of giving them a reality check. I'm glad I am the guy who knows he's tone-deaf instead. I still sing to myself when the mood hits me, and it feels pretty good. And if someone else knows they can't sing but still wants to go on television and kick their heels up, then at least it's an informed choice - good for them. It's only the deluded that I pity.

Likewise if you can manage not to care what others think, that seems healthy. I'm jealous. Just keep in mind that your wife might not get comfortable on the same schedule as you, so be patient. I hope you are able to find a comfortable place.

Just try to turn what she tells you into something constructive, let her know you aren't going to stop dressing, so ask what you can do to make your appearance less 'laughable' This could be a way for you to bond, conspiring towards a common objective. Plus, you look better the end, and she sees your improved appearance as a shared accomlishment.

Just another viewpoint.

[Tess]

I have to believe that Kimberly Anne's wife didn't make this up out of the blue - either there is some truth to it (as there probably is for most people at some point), or it is her mistaken (but genuine) perception. My assumption is that she is trying to protect them both. She may be mistaken, or misguided, but I don't assume it was malicious. Just because something hurts doesn't mean it was designed to. I suspect that she tried conveying the point in less direct terms, and when she felt she wasn't getting through, became frustrated and blunt.

Having been married nearly 40 years, my take is that your spouse is the one person you expect to be honest and tell you what no one else has the nerve to say. I don't regard that as being unsupportive but rather protective of their spouse and themselves. That may not have been the case with this situation since there is a fine line between delivering a truth you don't want to hear and trying to wound the other party.

[Cindi Johnson]

I used to more or less assume that people laughed at me when I failed to pass. However, I've spent the past couple of years working for a major retailer. Crossdressers are not common amongst our shoppers, but I've seen quite a few. I always watch the reactions of my co-workers. Here's what I see:

My male co-workers are less likely to read a CD, and when they do they rarely comment. I never understood this; maybe they think that if they acknowledged seeing a CD, others would question their sexuality? "It takes one to know one" type of logic?? I don't know.

My female coworkers are more likely to recognize one of us, but even they were unlikely to comment much beyond a bland "Hey, that was a guy" type of comment. Occasionally, if the CD was dressed to the 9's (kinda common), they would rudely comment on her clothes, but they would do this for female customers also if they were dressed like hookers.

I cannot recall even one instance of a coworker, male or female, laughing at a crossdressed customer, not in front of the customer nor behind her back. This is at a fairly large Target store; I can't imagine it's much different at other retailers.

IMHO, a lot of the fears and apprehensions we have are all in our heads. If we act and look like women, as best we can, then pretty much nobody cares. But please, calm down when out dressed: a gg confronted with a very nervous person - CD or not- will get spooked.

Cindi Johnson

[connie23]

Hi!
I am fearful of people laughing at me if I am honest. On the other hand, when people are nice or especially if they tell me I look nice or pretty I feel joy that lasts a long time. If you strive to fit in an look like well dressed women, I think that you can feel confident you will get compliments not derision.
I think it is the people that wear club clothes to Walmart that risk laughter.
Hugs,
Connie

[AmiFL]

Wives can be very mean when spurned

[lingerieLiz]

I think Reine gave some great awareness of what a SO goes through. Some of us and some of our wives worry about acceptance. Truthfully we all do to some extent. We don't want to be pointed out as different. If we didn't care we would be out and about it whatever garb we chose to display that day. Do people laugh at us? Yes, and they laugh at others including the diabled. People make fun of others because they want to feel superior or they are afraid and try to use it as an equalizer.

[Carly D.]

Being laughed at or about?? I think so.. I was in a store a few years ago and was in the checkout and the woman ringing my stuff up (tools or something very un-fem) and she was just raving about this guy who she just helped find his size in the dresses they had.. And she laughed and carried on for quite some time and all I could think was so what.. I didn't care about that guy but then I thought is this what the checkouts at the store I buy from do?? I don't ever ask for help at these stores.. The old line of "this is for my girlfriend, and she's about my size" is a gag.. a gaff.. So I try to guess will this fit me.. And sometimes I hit, and other times I miss.. Missing small sucks because then you are stuck with something that was potentially THE outfit maker.. Take the article of clothing back you say?? Well that would be a good idea but for me all sales are final.. Taking it back just isn't very likely.. I've only ever taken back one thing and that was a sun glasses thing.. not very hard to do there..

[Leslie Langford]

I used to more or less assume that people laughed at me when I failed to pass. However, I've spent the past couple of years working for a major retailer. Crossdressers are not common amongst our shoppers, but I've seen quite a few. I always watch the reactions of my co-workers. Here's what I see:

My male co-workers are less likely to read a CD, and when they do they rarely comment. I never understood this; maybe they think that if they acknowledged seeing a CD, others would question their sexuality? "It takes one to know one" type of logic?? I don't know.

My female coworkers are more likely to recognize one of us, but even they were unlikely to comment much beyond a bland "Hey, that was a guy" type of comment. Occasionally, if the CD was dressed to the 9's (kinda common), they would rudely comment on her clothes, but they would do this for female customers also if they were dressed like hookers.

I cannot recall even one instance of a coworker, male or female, laughing at a crossdressed customer, not in front of the customer nor behind her back. This is at a fairly large Target store; I can't imagine it's much different at other retailers.

IMHO, a lot of the fears and apprehensions we have are all in our heads. If we act and look like women, as best we can, then pretty much nobody cares. But please, calm down when out dressed: a gg confronted with a very nervous person - CD or not- will get spooked.

Cindi Johnson

...I would tend to agree with you, Cindi.

My wife used to put the fear of God into me about how risky it would be for me to go out in public en femme because of the way everyone would point their fingers at me, laugh hysterically, and cause me untold humiliation (and to herself, as well) should I have the misfortune of being "read" and outed - especially in the presence of someone who knows us. Kind of like the old bogey man tactic that parents use to try control their kids with when they are not around - and with about with the same amount of success in the long run.

Well, as they say, when the going gets tough, the tough get going, and while I initially submitted to those same fears, I also made it my mission to prove my wife wrong.

I worked very hard at improving my feminine appearance while still dressing in private, studied GG's intensively to learn as much as I could about the way they dressed and conducted themselves in public, and would often find myself on the lookout for masculine-looking or acting GG's to ask myself the rhetorical question of whether or not they "passed" as well as I ever could. And once I got to the point where I felt that I could "pass" just as well (or better) than they could, I was ready to face the world as "Leslie".

That point came about 3 years ago, and the first couple of times out in public were, of course, exceedingly nerve-wracking for me as I expected the worst. And you know what? It never happened. People by and large ignored me and walked past without so much as giving me a second look. Facing female SA's, cashiers, and beauty counter estheticians in department stores etc. in one-on-one situations was equally daunting initially until I discovered to my surprise that they not only treated me like any other female customer, often-times they actually seemed to treat me better.

Sure, some of the more ignorant and prejudiced people out there or those who are still trapped in their own self-imposed and stereotypically rigid gender role Hells might laugh at me behind my back, but they are likely in the minority nowadays. The younger generation as a whole is much more open-minded about these types of things, and with so much more information (most of it positive and even sympathetic) being disseminated by the media these days on the topic of transgenderism (Dr. Oz Show, Oprah, Tyra Banks Show, Ellen deGeneres Show, 20/20, Prime Time, America's Next Top Model, recent articles in Time and Newsweek magazines - just to name a few) there is a far greater awareness out there that not only do we exist, but that our numbers are also substantial enough to merit being recognized as a legitimate minority worthy of the same type of respect and consideration as other types of minorities. In fact, our overall numbers exceed those of, say, hay fever and peanut allergy sufferers, and not only are those groups not marginalized - they are given every consideration towards making their lives more bearable by accommodating their special needs, even if it means some compromises on the part of the mainstream majority. And so it should be for us.

On top of that, having now been embraced by the gay and lesbian rights movements as legitimate partners in their struggles for respect and equal rights (we've become part of the "T" in umbrella GLBT designation) we've also gained far more visibility through that mechanism, and a better understanding among the general public as to what we are all about.

Bottom line - I find that people are far less shocked when they encounter a CD these days than they might have been in the past. Moreover, I find that rather than being hostile or disdainful towards us, most people we encounter are not only supportive - they are genuinely curious about us and act almost privileged to meet in person someone as rare as we are, and whom they have previously only heard about through the media.

That's certainly been my experience so far, and I've found SA's and other people in the service industries (e.g. make up artists, nail techs, wait staff etc.) to be exceedingly helpful and friendly towards me - to the point of almost bending over backwards at times to cater to my needs when out en femme. And ironically enough, I almost seem to get better and more personalized service when in "Leslie" mode compared to when I am out in drab running similar errands.