So what is it that is offensive?

[Pythos]

The thread about the member here that was berated by his boss helped raise a question I wonder if we really know the answer to.

Why are people like this boss, and some respondents to the post so reactionary to how a person presents themselves?

Why is a guy in a skirt looked down upon?

What is the core of this need to look down upon such a person?

Is it indeed homophobia?

Is it religious?

My take on it is it is indeed based on both. Homophobia being a very big motivator. We are wearing a skirt and showing our legs we must be trying to pull men.

For some reason GGs are not attracted to such features (I am aware most indeed are not they are not attracted to physical features like men, but I am well aware of many that are)

As far as a boss prohibiting a man from presenting (in an acceptable manner) as a female, or just wear styles associated with women, is the boss not indeed bowing down to the rules dictated by homophobia? Would he tell a woman that she cannot wear pants more fit for a man, or a T shirt, or have a bobbed hair cut? (all of which were forbidden for women until a few decades ago)

I think if this question was asked "would I have such a limitation for women?" cannot be answered "yes", then I would posit that the motivation of the rule or restriction is a sexist one, and most likely based on homophobia.

Remember, Sexism is discrimination done on the basis of sex, the only area I can see justification for this is in one's own choice in life partner or significant other, or rest facility in the public . Restricting me from wearing a style just because I am male, but not restricting a woman from that style because she is female, is the very definition of sexism.
The next question to ask is, who does it hurt?

[Joanne f]

I am sure that there are a multitude of reasons why a man in a skirt can be looked down upon , some obvious and some not quite so obvious so i will just mention one and see what others pick out .
Difference, some people are afraid of anything different and that can be for many reasons , they may be frightened of what effect it may have on them , they maybe in a way jealous inside because they cannot be different , difference stands out and can become an attraction which may upset the balance of things and some people cannot cope with just the thought of that they are not prepared to look past difference and see it as normal they need to find a reason to challenge difference to bring it back in line with there narrow world.

[Jennifer Cox]

Why is a guy in a skirt looked down upon?

Maybe forgotten to put their heels on

[bianca66]

Oh I just pass it off that that person is having a bad day and why am I going to let their issues effect me...Who really knows what is going on in anyone elses reality?

[Mistybtm]

I am sure that there are a multitude of reasons why a man in a skirt can be looked down upon , some obvious and some not quite so obvious so i will just mention one and see what others pick out .
Difference, some people are afraid of anything different and that can be for many reasons , they may be frightened of what effect it may have on them , they maybe in a way jealous inside because they cannot be different , difference stands out and can become an attraction which may upset the balance of things and some people cannot cope with just the thought of that they are not prepared to look past difference and see it as normal they need to find a reason to challenge difference to bring it back in line with there narrow world.

I could not have said it any better

[tricia_uktv]

Soz hon, don't think, go out there and do it. Then you wil learn.

Hugs and good luck,

[Kristy]

They are affraid of things that are different...

[Miley]

I think there is a fine line, on one side there is the matter of being professional and being a good representation for a company, thus the reason for uniforms for some. But there is the other side of the line where the boss has gone to far and personal. I was angry about the bosses intolerant small minded attitude that forces people to fit into his little tiny insecure box..... If any one can fit it, but as a person in a position of management it start me thinking where the line can be drawn and where a company has the right to expect certain standards. At the end of the day it is not our company. I personally think that a person transitioning should be dealt with differently than a part time cd. In saying this i didn't agree at all with the boss diplomacy or his ignorant attitute. In the end this is why companies have a HR department to deal with these issues. Just my

[Daphne S]

Another possible reason for this intolerance is just plain ignorance. A lot of people's only exposure to TG folk and the issues we deal with are mass media representations, which are obviously not always flattering (e.g. Silence of the Lambs or Jerry Springer.) As a result, the general public forms stereotyped opinions about us, and have no idea of the reality of who we are as individuals. Some people can get very construed opinions about us and view us as being some sort of monster or degenerate or cartoon character. For example, when I told my best friend I am transgendered, one of the first things he asked me is if I was like Quagmire's dad on Family Guy. Just a thought.

[Helen_Highwater]

I asked the question of a friend of mine “Why” when he said; “Being gay, man on man, it’s just wrong”. I challenged him to give a reasoned argument to back his statement but he couldn’t. I then suggested to him that this was one of the ways which religion had permutated our society. Even atheists have that subliminal message, a moral code, engendered into their psyche. Isn’t it strange how someone can justify physically attacking, murdering another person because they’re gay or trans or CD because “It’s wrong, it’s immoral”. Err, hang on, thou shalt not kill is in there somewhere or so I thought.
The boss who denigrates their employee for their life style choices often does so, well because they, like my friend, have not real idea why. It’s an argument they’ve never thought through. It just is.

[mklinden2010]

The thread about the member here that was berated by his boss helped raise a question I wonder if we really know the answer to.

Why are people like this boss, and some respondents to the post so reactionary to how a person presents themselves?

Why is a guy in a skirt looked down upon?

What is the core of this need to look down upon such a person?

Is it indeed homophobia?

Is it religious?

My take on it is it is indeed based on both. Homophobia being a very big motivator. We are wearing a skirt and showing our legs we must be trying to pull men.

For some reason GGs are not attracted to such features (I am aware most indeed are not they are not attracted to physical features like men, but I am well aware of many that are)

As far as a boss prohibiting a man from presenting (in an acceptable manner) as a female, or just wear styles associated with women, is the boss not indeed bowing down to the rules dictated by homophobia? Would he tell a woman that she cannot wear pants more fit for a man, or a T shirt, or have a bobbed hair cut? (all of which were forbidden for women until a few decades ago)

I think if this question was asked "would I have such a limitation for women?" cannot be answered "yes", then I would posit that the motivation of the rule or restriction is a sexist one, and most likely based on homophobia.

Remember, Sexism is discrimination done on the basis of sex, the only area I can see justification for this is in one's own choice in life partner or significant other, or rest facility in the public . Restricting me from wearing a style just because I am male, but not restricting a woman from that style because she is female, is the very definition of sexism.
The next question to ask is, who does it hurt?

P,

Much of "the boss thing" was covered in the other thread. You're on someone else's turf, you play by their rules or they get upset. The OP has since cooled down and seen that his actions caused some of the problems that came to a head that day. It wasn't all the "ignorant" boss - who may, in fact, have had some good points to make, but picked the wrong time and wrong way to make them.

Your present a straw man argument that "A man in a skirt is looked down on." I don't see that very often, if at all. A man in a skirt is looked at as a man wearing a skirt - and the question is, "To what purpose?" Many have noted that most people just go on about their business, "Well, if he's not going to explode, see ya."

Homophobia as a reason for rejection is simply being unaware that men hit on women, and they hit on men. But, long story short, if you want to get laid by a man, your odds are better, and safer, if you just show up as a man and let their nature take it's course. Presenting as a woman seeking sex, you're going to catch hell from the men who don't want to waste their time, and the women who don't them wasting their time.

A woman's view of man on man sex is often, at heart, practical. Much is made of the emotions involved, but basically, a man who wants to be with men will be taking time away from her, and her agenda. Sharing mates is not popular with most people, women included. It's not that it's "forbidden" so much as it's just, in essence, damn inconvenient. And, yeah, that hurts your feelings - damn right!

Sexism, is a person of one sex deciding that persons of the other sex are inferior, just because they are of the other sex. It may surprise you, but there are women who despise "all men, just because they are men."

Speaking for men: "Well, excuuuuuuussseee me!"

I have no idea what any particular person's core reasons for doing or thinking something are. Even people with trained therapists have trouble figuring that out.

Some issues just are and you have to find some way to work with them.

Not all problems have pat answers.

As you get older, you get used to it.

Whether you "figure it all out" or not, life goes on.

[Babette]

Pythos, you have posed many generalized questions that simply cannot be answered in the same context. Whenever I find myself baffled by the actions of others, I simply consider the axiom that people are infinitely strange and try to move onto something else. Note that I said "try" because some events still leave me astounded for a good while.

There is a recurring theme in several threads suggesting that men suffer more for dressing outside "the norm" than women. Some of the posted comments imply that women can get away with more variances in dress than men. I can't accept that notion. The daily news routinely carries features about women in other countries and societies being told what they can and cannot wear. In my country (USA) there are dress codes, written or implied, for both sexes covering most situations.

My past employer had well defined standards of dress and for good reasons. Like men, the women were expected to dress professionally. If they came dressed in a provocative, trashy or unkempt manner, they would be sent home. Image projection was an important part of the company's branding or reputation.

Who can define "the norm" in just a few sentences? I can't but I'll bet many of us know exactly what actions or mode of dress are pushing the limits without even thinking about it.

Grant it, social mores regarding dress and appearances do change. Sometimes they are a little slower than we prefer. I for one would never want to return to the societal expectations of my youth. A male that had hair touching his ears was quickly labeled a #*## hippy or a "queer" and sometimes met physical harm. Within a decade, most men had hair over their ears and those who didn't were referred to as #*## rednecks.

It's going to take time for alternative sexual expression to gain popular acceptance. I think there has been more progress made in the past decade than in the last 100 years. Let's keep our fingers crossed and hope the rate continues to improve.

Babette

[Rachel Morley]

They are affraid of things that are different...

..... sometimes it just gets me down how depressing and oppressive this whole "having to follow gender expectations" is ...

[jenifer m.]

my take is people are afraid of what they dont understand.ive been asked why i wear the feminine things i do,and one of my answers is women can wear anything a guy wears so why cant i wear womans stuff?but i have to say i rarely hear a bad comment.instead i get a compliment two or three times a week.almost always from a woman though.i think most guys just dont know what to say or how to react.guys typically arent very complimentry.especially to other guys,and ones who dare to cross social boundries.

[Nicole Erin]

Not all people are homo-sapiens
There is a slightly different breed of human called the assus-holus.
The assus holus is known to attack homo-sapiens for reasons little-understood. Maybe the homo-sapien is wearing something different, has a different color of skin, comes from another country, or any number of reasons.

Generally, the assus-holus may look like any other breed of human, it is only thru their words and actions that they can be positively identified.
While the bite or sting of an assus holus can cause mentaly distress, one must remember that the assus-holus is a lower form of human and the antedote to an assus-holus sting is to remember that it is merely trying to prove it's superiority among the human race, but once one is recognised, that power quickly can vanish.

There also exist imbred hybrid breeds of the assus-holus called hickus-dumassus. This is the biggest thread to transgendered homo-sapiens

Typical sub-humans are depicted in these photos, showing the difference between the male and female species. Note the female breed of the hickus-dumassus weighs several hundred pounds.

[Pythos]

My questions are indeed generalized.

We are dealing with generalities when dealing with people having intolerance.

You all did here that Dan Choi got fired today?

If you are not aware of who he is, he has faced this sort of discrimination in spades, though from a slightly different point. Look him up.

This was as wrong as some of the attitudes people have toward us.

Many times I will ask wide open or general questions. I like to see what kind of thought full answers come about. Yes they are subject to people that put no thought or make fun of the posited question.

[Vickie_CDTV]

A friend of mine once explained to me why some women who wear high heels regularly are looked down upon by other women, and one of those reasons is that the women doing the looking down are jealous that they themselves cannot wear high heels (for whatever reason.)

A very small part of it may be the same reason for men wearing skirts; that is some of the hostility may be coming from men who themselves wish they could wear skirts or other traditionally feminine attire (but cannot for whatever reason.) Some may be full-on crossdresser but cannot admit it to themselves so they attack those who do crossdress to try to convince themselves and others that they are not a crossdressers; it is like obnoxious homophobic men who are in denial that they themselves are gay.

[eluuzion]

People are very open-minded about new things~~

as long as they are exactly like the old ones...