The man she married. Really?

[Sarah Doepner]

I see the phrase "I'm still the man she married." on a regular basis here. Okay, I'm admitting that I'm not the brightest candle on the birthday cake today. I've used it myself and just recently realized that since I didn't tell her before we were married that I am a crossdresser I'm NOT the man she agreed to marry.

The man she married is not me. I've entered the relationship slowly over the years, moving him over by bits and pieces while claiming to be him. He didn't use makeup, wear women's clothing, buy things from the Breastform Store and shop the makeup counter. If he did these things, she didn't know about it and they weren't part of who she fell in love with. It was part of me, but well hidden and was not part of the dynamic leading up to marriage. Sometimes we use a phrase and don't really take the time to really think about what we are saying. This is one that we need to be careful with if we are coming out to someone after they made a committment to us.

Fortunately my bride has accepted this new fellow; man, crossdress version 1.3 into her life. There must be some other things that mean more to her than what I've done to the man she married. I may not be bright, but I'm lucky I guess.

[Lorileah]

Sarah it is more semantics than anything. Every relationship grows and matures and when it is good they grow in a similar path but with the ability to allow the other to have room of their own. Here is the rub as I see it. Too many people buy into the happily ever after fairytale. That one person comes in a sweeps you off your feet and for the rest of your life it stays that way. Now I have to admit I know a few couples where that has been true but as one other people in one of those couples once said "You only see the social _____. You don't see him at home".

So is we take what you say literally, yes you are the same man who married. You are the same physical being. But are you the same all over? Few of us stay the same weight. We all show physical signs of aging. Tat is the main reason nature gave us failing eyesight....so we could not see that.

Now on the mental part, in a way we are still the same but we do expand, we learn and we grow. In the beginning we all thing it will be a certain way. Then something happens that causes us to take a side path. So many here believe that they can change themselves (and we won't even get into the ones who think they can change someone else) so that they can conform to how their partner wants them. This is where the honesty BEFORE marriage part would be important (and some of us got lucky that even though we waited our partners were open enough to see what we were). There is so much about ourselves that is hard wired so to speak. We may be able to bypass this for awhile but it takes power away from other things and soon, we get angry or disillusioned or become a shadow of our former self. Good partners see this and allow the other to grow. Most partners stick adamantly with the ideal they THOUGHT they were getting.

So, no, you are not the same man you were when you married. Who would want to be? You have life experiences and memories now. There is lure in the whole new world before you idea we had at 20 but there is also a comfort in the knowledge we have now. I never expected my wife to stay the same as when we met. I enjoyed watching her grow and mature (and she was even older than I was) and see how things panned out. It is part of the journey. It is part that too many miss because they don't want to see change. Yet it is inevitable.

So instead of saying the "man" you were how about knowing you are still the same loving, caring, funny, good person you always were no matter the trappings?

[christine55]

I've been fortunate that I did not get married before I've become open about
my being transgendered. I was such an alcoholic. If I had not been an alkie
I would almost certainly gotten married and hid it from her hoping the urge
to be a woman would go away. What a terrible problem for those who have it.
If I ever get married she would know all about me and approve or I would not
marry her.

Hugs, Christine

[mklinden2010]

Nobody stays the same.

You find out someone CDs after you marry, that's just something you didn't know. That person is still that person.

You find out someone is a multi-millionaire after you marry.... Whatca gonna do? Still the same person.

I'm a different person now than when I started typing this.

Now, since the complaint it coming, I do hear, "He's not the person I married."

Neither are you.

What about it?

This is the, "for better or for worse", "til death do us part", "for richer and for poorer" part.

If you still want to look at it that way...

But, maybe the new you has other ideas.

Fine.

[BRANDYJ]

Good points by both of you, Sarah and Lorileah
You are in fact the same man she married. BUT you are not as she envisioned you. Not completely anyway. She did not envision you in a skirt, bra, makeup, and a wig, along with all the other trappings she did not know you had or had a desire for. Be she loved you then and she loves you now. Yes, you are one of the lucky ones to have a marriage survive after telling her. I am one of those too. Not once, but twice. My present SO knew day one when she saw my profile on a site to meet people. I had both male and feminine pictures posted. Lucky me, she liked what she saw and read and now we are one....or is it three? Her, me and my male counterpart? lol

[Sky]

I feel there is a sizable amount of selfishness in cd's who state "I'm still the man she married". The implication is, she has to love me for what I am deep inside, and I think I am the same.

And that's not true -on more than one count.

Each person has the right to decide why he or she loves another person. External image is a factor, and it can be big for many people. Let's face it, does it matter to us to look pretty, or are we happy being ugly? You know the answer. So if looks are important to us, they can be just as important to our wives. I think any wife has all the right to say "I didn't marry a guy in a dress and I don't want to be with one".

As to "being the same guy", that's probably not true either. Maybe you already felt compelled to dress up when you met her, or you secretly did, but the point is, she didn't know. So that's an important part of your personality that she had no access to. If you share it with her now, I believe she has all the right to say "I don't like it and I don't want my husband to be like that". To her, you're not the same man, even if you felt the same as today when you met her.

[Sarah Doepner]

Good points Lorileah. There is another old phrase about the disappointments in marriage where "Men marry women expecting they won't change and women marry men expecting they will change." It's true that we all change as we grow, but maturing and becoming more responsible is what they expect of us, not becoming girly and taking over the closets.

I guess the difficult part of this for me is I wasn't ready to accept my crossdressing when I got married, making it impossible to ask her to do the same. I couldn't have asked her to deal with it then, so the argument is a moot one at best for me. My intention here it to make sure we don't fall back on stock phrases if they can't be backed up. For those who accept their crossdressing before they marry and are open to the person they are about to marry, you are many steps ahead of where I was. I'll just try to make up lost ground as we move along.

[sissystephanie]

Lorileah gave you a very good answer! You are still the man she married, albeit with some tidbits she was not aware of! But we all change, in many ways, over the years. I did tell my late wife before we married, and she not only accepted me but totally supported my CD activites. You are very fortunate to have a wife who does accept you "as is," and is willing to share her life with you. Just always remember to let her know that you are HER MAN, even if you are wearing a dress!!

[sterling12]

OK, I'm not really sure that we can say that your The Same "Person" that she married. People are constantly changing (evolving,) and The Myriad of small, daily, changes will over time add up to some very large fundamental changes in A Person's Life. It's only logical; your not the same person at age forty, as you were at age twenty, etc., etc., and in many small ways your not The Same Person you were at Three P.M., compared to Two P.M..

But remember folks, She's changing too! If a person doesn't change throughout their life, then something is very wrong, because The Mear Act of thinking about Anything, will "change" you.

So when we expect No Changes in our Spouse, we are being foolish. Marriage is hard, and that's probably One Big Reason why it's so hard. How many times have we heard someone say, "We grew apart." That's Change folks, and sometimes The Other Partner can't deal with that change.

But, I do think one of The Prime Reasons for Marriage Upheaval for The Transgendered, is sudden, fundamental, changes. To suddenly drop that kind of "change" on The Spouse has got to be a coping nightmare.

Maybe, that's why we almost always suggest counseling, or therapy when couples around here are asking for advise. It's a difficult situation, and often requires The Aid of a QUALIFIED PROFESSIONAL.

Peace and Love, Joanie

[paulaN]

Nope! I was not the man she married.
I was a cd when we married. She did not know.
I drank alcoholically when we married. I was not an alcoholic.
I am in recovery now I was not when we married.
I am transgendered person now I was a cd when we married.LOL
No I am not (was not) the same person she married when we got divorced. (31 years.) It was, and still is her reason for the divorce. quote. "You are not the same man I married. I did not sign up for this". LOL!!!!!! She was not the same ether. So away went our marriage. Thank god she did not sign up for this, the divorce was hard for me, but I am so much better of today than two years ago. Things do get better.

[StaceyJane]

I'm not the same man my wife married but she's not the same woman I married.

I'm stuck watching my wife develop a drinking problem and there doesn't seem to be anything I can do to help her.

[mklinden2010]

I feel there is a sizable amount of selfishness in cd's who state "I'm still the man she married". The implication is, she has to love me for what I am deep inside, and I think I am the same.

And that's not true -on more than one count.

Each person has the right to decide why he or she loves another person. External image is a factor, and it can be big for many people. Let's face it, does it matter to us to look pretty, or are we happy being ugly? You know the answer. So if looks are important to us, they can be just as important to our wives. I think any wife has all the right to say "I didn't marry a guy in a dress and I don't want to be with one".

As to "being the same guy", that's probably not true either. Maybe you already felt compelled to dress up when you met her, or you secretly did, but the point is, she didn't know. So that's an important part of your personality that she had no access to. If you share it with her now, I believe she has all the right to say "I don't like it and I don't want my husband to be like that". To her, you're not the same man, even if you felt the same as today when you met her.

Selfishness works both ways.

If she had some idea about you, like you would love to have five kids and make tons of money and she could stay home and tell the nanny when to bring the drinks out to the pool and then got po'd when you didn't come through... Well, she may have loved something about you that you hadn't even thought of... And wouldn't...

You take your best guess in life. CDing is not illegal, not even immoral if all you're doing is wearing clothes, and, maybe even not if it's more. So, you don't tell someone something... That's not the same as outright swearing, "I'd never do such a thing!" Not to mention, it's very common for a CD to think, "I just need to get married and be the guy and let her be the gal..." No deliberate harm intended, in fact, just the opposite. Nobody gets it right all the time...

There's love, forgiveness, understanding, patience, and so forth on the planet because it's needed.

"The" man she married?

What one of those was ever perfect?

[Nikki A.]

I wasn't the man she married either. She knew about my CDing before and I was as open as I could have been based on how I felt at the time. In the 20 yrs we were together, I changed and wanted more, but was always open with her and faithful. We set certain boundaries that I kept to.
Anyone that I think that I may be interested in will also know and have the option to accept or not. It's not easy but if there is no honesty in a relationship then there is no relationship.

[kimdl93]

I don't think anyone remains the same person they were 5-10-15-20 years prior. My first marriage didn't end because I was a CDer... It may have ended because each of us had changed... maybe grew up...and over the years we'd grown less in love. In my second marriage, I started out open about my CDing, have been accepted, but at the same time each of us continues to evolve.

[vikki2020]

We all have a different story here, but they all seem so similar!This is exactly where we're kind of "stuck" at in our house. All relationships evolve, or at least they should, and our cases might be thought of as a bit extreme. Don't really know how to get beyond this point, but I am trying. Maybe I can get her to read this post--it will be a first.

[AKAMichelle]

I think in many respects we are still the man they married. The problem is that many of us didn't bother to tell them the rest of the story about us. So in some ways they got duped into loving us under false conditions.

[Sara Jessica]

Very thoughtful thread Sarah.

Let's look at this from a societal standpoint without regard for the age-old plea for acceptance "underneath all this I'm still the guy you married".

Bottom line, we trip out society. We are misunderstood and sometimes (often?) the subject of ridicule. These days, it is what it is despite many of our best efforts to bring about change.

Then look at it from the perspective of the women in our lives. Not only are we expressing ourselves in a manner which is completely counter to what is normal in society but also in a way which is likely to be utterly foreign, even unattractive to the eye of our beholder.

Again, it is what it is but when all is said and done, their part in all of this is such a difficult one. It's been said that a common response is "this is not what I signed up for". Very valid. It takes such a special woman to be able to punch through a lifetime of experience that has shaped her world view and find true acceptance in her heart, yet the woman who finds she cannot do so is no less special. It simply demonstrates the sheer magnitude of how difficult this is for them.

[Tina B.]

Sarah, I agree, I am not the man she thought she married, I was in my mid twenties, volatile, temperamental, and suffered bouts of depression. What she saw in me still puzzles me. Today, I am a fat old man that is completely happy, well adjusted. even keeled. I think she likes the new me, much better than the old me, at least we never fight anymore like we did back in the bad old days. But then I am one of the lucky ones, I told my wife the truth about me, after five years of marriage, and was excepted right there on the spot, and life has been good for the last thirty + years.
Tina B.

[sandra-leigh]

There have been several things that have happened to my wife and I, each of which is statistically shown to break up 60% to 80% of relationships, so we're working in about the last 1% now. I've changed (not always for the better) since she fell in love with me; she's changed (not always for the better) since I fell in love with her.

[Sarah Doepner]

I just discussed this idea with my wife while we were taking a short vacation. She understood what I was saying but the felt it was more significant that I hid the whole thing from her for so long. When she found out she wondered what else I was keeping from her. She asked what took so long and I had to think of the list of excuses and parse them out from the real reason. It turns out that I didn't accept it myself when we got married and for the next 18-20 years. After that it was one family crisis after another and I didn't want to load any more on her.

It's all well and good now, but she still is a bit riled up that I didn't trust her to know this for so long. So I guess the man she married was less honest with her than the one she has now. It will all work out as long as we communicate.

[Lorileah]

I just discussed this idea with my wife while we were taking a short vacation. She understood what I was saying but the felt it was more significant that I hid the whole thing from her for so long. When she found out she wondered what else I was keeping from her.

I agree with her. Now how do we tell all these people hiding that it doesn't get better the longer you wait? It is logical that if someone keeps this big a thing a secret for "X" years that there is a lot more that maybe they are hiding. It is good when one has a spouse who can see the person isn't someone "new" it is the same person they have loved for a long time with just a different wrapper. Sort of like Junior Mints

I am glad you two are working through this and things are going well.

[christinek]

I have seen this issue over and over and always shake my head. So when you got married what did your wife look like? Go get a picture!

Mine gained almost 50 pounds, I did not marry that either. For most of you the mere mention of that will get you scalded. Some of us get fat too and the same goes. I love my wife either way, I like long hair, that to gets cut short.

The skirts and heels the ladies once wore may now be sweats and flip flops. Make up goes to the wind and only applied when she goes to work.

So you see, I love her still and yes she is not the woman I married, this is now the woman I have grown in this marriage with and Christine is part of that growth.

[suchacutie]

So are we exactly the same people? Heavens, I sure hope not! So, what does this phrase actually mean? The fact is that it means something different to everyone, but tries to imply that the male part of that person is still "there" as part of the relationship.

Given the normal evolution of people and relationships, I guess I come pretty close to what this phrase is designed to imply. We were married 32 years before that day when I walked into the room for my wife in heels and various pieces of women's attire. She suggested I needed a dress and the rest is history.

So, what does this mean for me. Both my genders were always there, just not defined. We have both been able to go back into our history and see the Tina effects. Tina is a search for understand of who the heck this guy she married is, and it has been a wonderful joint effort.

Our groundrules include the fact that she can have her "man" whenever she desires. Now I'm sure all of you will begin to ask, "who is he?", and that is yet to be determined

so much fun!

[jenifer m.]

i get that too.cuz i came out shortly after we were married.she tolerates it at best.

[silhouette]

I have seen this issue over and over and always shake my head. So when you got married what did your wife look like? Go get a picture!

Mine gained almost 50 pounds, I did not marry that either. For most of you the mere mention of that will get you scalded..

Lol, I hope you meant scolded.
If your wife scalds you for insulting her weight gain then you've got an entirely different set of problems