Passing In Public( again) There is HOPE for you guys (gurrlz) Read On;

[Megan70]

This is A Revising thread for all newbies who've joined in the last 3 years and scared to death to take that first step outside. Not everyone should.... or has to feel compelled to!

Dear Sisters of the forum, especially those whom venture out:

I feel I must add my on the subject of "Passing As A Women". I am a 60ish CD who has been going out dressed in public now for over 50 years, since my early teens. Sometimes I get "read" as we say, but most of the time I don't. Its because I've spent years perfecting my art as passing naturally as a woman an not to come of as a buffoon caricature of one. .. I want to blend in unnoticed and not be stared at or go for the big shock value. That ruins the whole thrill of the "acting" part passing naturally.
CD's will never pass 100% of the time, but the objective here is to minimize it as much as possible. The scenario of going out for 3 hours to the mall or shopping center and behaving and shopping exactly as a woman would, and fool everyone is a thrill beyond belief. CD's must remember however that to minimize being spotted they have a few things they MUST do.

1) Dress appropriately for the place you are walking around at-No silk blouse, miniskirt, black hose or high heels when you go to the mall or grocery store or shopping center. You'll be spotted in a second and probably be laughed at. Wear what others are wearing in that particular place-like jeans and sweatshirt in the mall, look around you will see no legs showing .

2) Walk out the door with confidence and your head held high and don't slouch and stare at the ground avoiding eye contact. Its shows you/re afraid of something, mainly yourself.
I as a CD want to look and act like a woman occasionally because I emulate you so much. I admire woman and respect them that I want to look, act and fee l"pretty" like them albeit for just a few hours. I often have to explain to women I meet in bars or clubs the huge difference between a drag queen and a cross dresser. Most don't have a clue. When they find out that I've been married for 40 years and my wife knows of and accepting of my behavior they can't believe it.(She even goes out with me shopping. dinner, movies and more.) They always think I'm gay. The professional drag queens that I've talked to cannot,for the life of them understand why a heterosexual male would enjoy and get sexual and emotional gratification from wearing women's clothes. They do it as a performer, paid role-playing and performing for the money for a few hours at a club.,. They would never think of dressing up in women's attire at home on their own. I guess what I'm saying is that I wish I could experience for 24 hours in all ways(emotionally and sexually) what it would truly be like to live as a real woman. Also..... Here's to admiration to the beautiful gentle sex of the planet who gets all the fun looking pretty and feminine.

Remember if one thing stands out the most to give yourself away its fear! It shows in your face, your walk, your deportment. having complete confidence in yourself as you walk outside is the most important thing (plus no.2 I found is wearing the right wig for your face and age-found out being read by experience there.

One thing I discovered that help me build my confidence and almost eliminate paranoia is never look over your shoulder TO SEE IF ANYONE IS WATCHING YOU. it's A DEAD GIVEAWAY THAT SOMETHING IS WRONG WITH THAT PERSON(You). First thought is you are a shoplifter. If you can feel eyes burning into your back .SO WHAT its their problem, not yours.What, you gonna bring them home to dinner with you. What your back doesn't see OR Worry About will not hurt you.

You may want to even be bold enough (as I have) and turn around and reverse the embarrassment to THEM and approach them and say" "Can I answer any questions for you? I saw you staring, do you have a problem?.Have you never experienced a transvestite before? I think we should talk!" I did this to a teenage SA counter girl years ago and she babbled and almost wet her pants. I ended it by saying , "yes, I'm a cross dresser but also a customer-my money is just as good as a females."

More from Abby's advice column later dears

Love

Megan70

[AriannaVillota]

-applauds wildly-

Well said!

[Daphne S]

Thank you for that, Megan! I need all the confidence I can get.

[dilane]

Hi Megan, good stuff. I, too am an experienced out-and-about'er.

However, beyond looking appropriate and being relaxed and confident, it is very important to move and "wear your face" as a woman would.

This takes practice. In my case, it also took help from GG's. I still appreciate little suggestions I get from my GG friends. So many very passable T-girls (passable in a picture or standing still) can be read in a trice because they don't move or walk in a natural feminine manner.

Facial expressons and eye-contact and little smiles are also part of the presentation. Even the way a woman turns to look at something is often very different from the way a man does it. Often women with longer hair turn their heads faster and a bit more dramatically to give their hair more movement, for example.

I've found that having a good feel for the little things, the "stage business" of feminine presentation can go a long way to allay suspicion caused by features we can't change.

Then of course, the voice is the Ph D. of "passing" in public. (I put it in quotes because very, very few of us pass 100%).

[sterling12]

Great Minds think alike! I have made this same plea, almost word for word, in previous posts. But periodically, we need to remind The "Teachable One's," what is really necessary.

I can't add much. I go out with Groups of Gurls, and often someone will say: "Did you see those people, they Read Us...they were commenting and laughing!" In a Group of T-Gurls, it's darn near impossible NOT to be Read. Somebody will dress like a Wanna-be Prostitute, somebody will clump around like they are wearing combat boots, etc., etc.. It Happens, and that ain't The Point. The Point Is.....(wait for it!)... WHO CARES!

Part of The reason for being out there is to let The Public know we exist, we're not particularly weird, and we demand The Right to be ourselves in Public. Once you get THAT Mindset, you start to become Militant, and you really do start to realize, WHO CARES!

Anyway, thanks for a thoughtful, concise, narrative. It's great advise...."Now, whom will be The Takers?"

Peace and Love, Joanie

[Claire Cook]

Megan, Dilane and Sterling,

These are wonderful posts and great advice for all of us, regardless of our experience. Dilane, I've become more aware of what you have said about facial expressions and little smiles -- that is really true, especially when interacting with GG's.

[KayleeDahl]

Terrific post! I like how you mentioned that not being read is the thrill for you. I feel the same way. I've read posts by some on the forums that are looking to shock, and don't quite understand that, as I just want to blend in. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with wanting to shock, we all have our own journey, and I'm not going to judge anyone elses.

Hugs!
Kaylee

[Regina]

Good post!


There's an old football saying from Paul Brown "Act like you've been in the end zone before" Paul Brown never cared much for touchdown celebrations.

I use the same analogy for going out....act like you have been in the mall,grocery etc before, the easiest way to get made is to draw attention to yourself either through dress or mannerism's keep your composure and you'll clear a lot of hurdles, when I'm out if all I get is a glance from someone I don't consider it bad and it doesn't bother me at all.

Back in early June I was in a Wal-Mart that I was familar with, I was really concerned about my look because it was only the second time out with my real hair, I was pushing a cart near an isle when three guys hanging out near the pharmacy looked over at me and one said "Oh my God!" this did rattle me but I was not going to let him win...I pushed my cart to the next isle as if nothing bothered me... I was truly rattled inside. Later as I was heading for the check out I saw the same guy with his wife..we were about to cross path's , I could have run but I wanted to find out was it me?. I walked right by him and his wife...nothing! maybe he saw someone else on the initial encounter and not me I don't know but if I panicked I would have most certainly drawn attention to myself...keep your cool


Regina

[Barbara Jo]

Yes, that was good advise.

I would just add a couple of things.
I has been said that when a CD goes out in public, she has to believe with all her heart that she is a "womam" and simply play the part.
In other words don't play the part of a man dressed as a woman, play the part of a woman.

Now, keep in mind that there are all knds of women in this world. Of course, there are some that can never pass no matter what they do. However most can with some effort.
When you go to a place like a mall, as long as you "blend in" no one will say anything to you about not being a woman etc. Think about the potential lawsuites that would be involved if someome in a professional position accused someone of not being a woman and they actually were a woman. They wont do it. They just wont hassel people if they are not causing any problems. Just be non threatening and blend in.

[sandra-leigh]

1) Dress appropriately for the place you are walking around at-No silk blouse, miniskirt, black hose or high heels when you go to the mall or grocery store or shopping center. You'll be spotted in a second and probably be laughed at. Wear what others are wearing in that particular place-like jeans and sweatshirt in the mall, look around you will see no legs showing

My local mall is absolutely not a high-fashion place, but we do see GG in silk blouses, miniskirts, or (not as often) high heels; black hose is not all that common there, though (but it is down-town.) Legs showing is no big deal there.

There is a pretty wide range of GG clothing that does not attract any attention in most circumstances. A ball gown or wedding dress in the middle of a mall or bus are likely to attract attention, but it is not (for example) a problem for me to wear one of my linen dresses to the local mall: there are not a lot of linen dresses around but they are within the parameters of "not abnormal for GG's in general".

[Cheryl James]

Thank you for taking the time to write this. I've dressed as long as you have and am, only now, beginning to venture out. I've experienced the paranoia that you describe and have struggled to control it. Your post will stay in my memory as I venture out again (and again...).

[MsJoann]

Yes....very well said.
The nervous look in public gets you read every time.

[Tracii G]

Megan I agree with everything you said.
I do the "blend in your surroundings"thing when I go out and have not had many "read"me.
When shopping at the mall I do as a woman would and the SA's all treat me as any other woman.
I've had a few say wow you look great as a female nice out fit or great legs hunny wish mine looked that good in a mini skirt.
Main thing is be confident and hold your head up high.

[Lorileah]

My local mall is absolutely not a high-fashion place, but we do see GG in silk blouses, miniskirts, or (not as often) high heels; black hose is not all that common there, though (but it is down-town.) Legs showing is no big deal there.

but it is not (for example) a problem for me to wear one of my linen dresses to the local mall: there are not a lot of linen dresses around but they are within the parameters of "not abnormal for GG's in general".

I have to back Sandra on this. Think about why you dress. Is it to wear clothes that you can wear anyway? Sweats and t-shirts are unisex and you really are NOT dressing up then. I see so many posts that say "blend in...don't call attention to yourself...act like a woman(explain that to me exactly how does a woman act?)" Come on, get over all this obsessive fear. If you act like you know what you are doing and don't act like a "sneak thief" very few people will even care. Everyone has an agenda. If you are not part of the agenda no one will even pay attention to you. Now there are caveats here like Sandra said...a wedding dress on the beach isn't a good thing and dressing like a stripper at 11AM on main street might get you noticed. But honestly sweats? Ratty tennis shoes? Why not just pick up what you wore yesterday and sniff it turn it inside out and wear it?

Face it, there are a myriad of different people out there. Do you remember what the woman in front of you was wearing at the check out? Probably not. I know there are people who make notes of this stuff here because they believe that if they copy the look no one will "see" them. If you don't want to be seen, stay home. I know plenty of women who wear 3-5 inch heels daily. I know women who wear dresses and skirts on a routine basis. I know women who look like they could not care less about how they are perceived in public and dress slouchy and disheveled.

It isn't what you wear, it is how you act. Act like you know what you are doing. Women do this because they KNOW what they are doing but we think we have this neon sign on our rears that say "look at the freak!" You don't, just relax. You are going to get read, no doubt about it otherwise as a male you would be "read" as a effeminate guy everyday (or a lesbian or whatever). If you get read, so what, 20 minutes later no one will remember.

All these "rules" are made up by people who THINK they know. No two women are alike so the rules cannot apply. Hey, this is supposed to be fun and relaxing...otherwise don't do it

[windycissy]

This is very good advice, practical and based on experience, the best kind. I'd only add that it is fun to put on a dress and heels sometimes so I seek out places where GGs wear them too, like downtown Chicago during the week for example, or any large hotel catering to business people. Even the mall is okay at like 6:00 on a weekday evening, when real women are to be found on their way home from work before they've had a chance to change into their jeans and sweatshirts

[Gerrijerry]

have to say something here. Blend / blend / blend. Since every place is not the same go there in male mode first and look around. Look at what the woman are wearing and please dress your age. a woman dressed as a teen just does not work. I just came back from orlando and went to disney downtown. I looked around shopped went to a movie had dinner and no one said a word to me. Did anyone think I was a male dressed female. I don't know because all that was said to me was "can I help you miss" etc." I didn't try to hide my voice. But I did talk slowly and softly as I always do anyway. Oh I believe that the more people that are around you the less you are noticed. When I went to walk into one of the stores a teenage girl opened the door for me, smiled and said have a nice day. Did it matter at that point if she knew or not? I said thank you and went inside to shop.

[paulaN]

I love the post. It is all very true. The one part that I differ on is how you dress. If I go to the mall or where ever in my state. (Maine). Chances are you will not see one person wearing a skirt. Maybe I should say very few girls in skirts or dresses. Well girls. I am not going out dressed in pants or slacks I am going out in dresses or skirts or I am not going out at all. I am not getting all dressed up to dress down. Just ain't no way it's gonna happen. I do not wear my skirts too short but short. I have nice legs and I am gona show them not hide them. I [do] try to go for the "school teacher look" or "office girl look" That's how I blend. Teachers and office girls need to shop too. So I may not look like everyone else. Moms carting the kids around, or kids looking junkie. I look nice. That's how I do it and it works for me. Just be Proud, Happy, Safe. Enjoy being a cd, enjoy being yourself. Oh yeah I do get read, I also get complements.

[AKAMichelle]

Well Said!

[ssandy]

Hi..I want so much to pull it off like you do!

Sandy

[dana 1]

great post, one of these days i'm going to go out, so far in 60 years i've made it to the back yard only

[Fab Karen]

I have to back Sandra on this. Think about why you dress. Is it to wear clothes that you can wear anyway? Sweats and t-shirts are unisex and you really are NOT dressing up then. I see so many posts that say "blend in...don't call attention to yourself...act like a woman(explain that to me exactly how does a woman act?)" Come on, get over all this obsessive fear. If you act like you know what you are doing and don't act like a "sneak thief" very few people will even care. Everyone has an agenda. If you are not part of the agenda no one will even pay attention to you. Now there are caveats here like Sandra said...a wedding dress on the beach isn't a good thing and dressing like a stripper at 11AM on main street might get you noticed. But honestly sweats? Ratty tennis shoes? Why not just pick up what you wore yesterday and sniff it turn it inside out and wear it?

Face it, there are a myriad of different people out there. Do you remember what the woman in front of you was wearing at the check out? Probably not. I know there are people who make notes of this stuff here because they believe that if they copy the look no one will "see" them. If you don't want to be seen, stay home. I know plenty of women who wear 3-5 inch heels daily. I know women who wear dresses and skirts on a routine basis. I know women who look like they could not care less about how they are perceived in public and dress slouchy and disheveled.

It isn't what you wear, it is how you act. Act like you know what you are doing. Women do this because they KNOW what they are doing but we think we have this neon sign on our rears that say "look at the freak!" You don't, just relax. You are going to get read, no doubt about it otherwise as a male you would be "read" as a effeminate guy everyday (or a lesbian or whatever). If you get read, so what, 20 minutes later no one will remember.

All these "rules" are made up by people who THINK they know. No two women are alike so the rules cannot apply. Hey, this is supposed to be fun and relaxing...otherwise don't do it

[SIZE="5"]Amen, girlfriend.[/SIZE]
p.s. those who worry about sounding like a woman, the star of "throw momma from the train" is a woman for example.

[Megan70]

My goodness!!! Girl friends, unanimous agreement here at something i said intelligently that hit som "good" nerves and made a point. Makes up for a few points where i ticked a few people (you know who you are) I don't care. I say what I think and feel, and finding this forum I believe more of us ladies should use our female intellectual side and express ourselves philoshically as I did above. I thank all you little sweethearts for the kinds words, Bless You!!. Keep the comments coming and don't be afraid to expound lengthy as to your thoughts.

Here's a cute couple of stories that showed good (passing)and bad (being read)relatively close to each other even minutes apart in the same location.
Several years ago in a Fashion bug or Dots or similar store it was loaded with women. I was a 5 on a scale of 10 that day. A cute little black girl leaves the side of her mother , walks over to me and says "are you a man or a woman?, are you a sweetie?"( obviously a term her mother taught her. Then she asked if I was a mommy, I said yes, she was satisfied, I was cracking up because i was nicely read by her and her mother but they let it go, wondered around and left me alone.

Another time at Bare Necessities I was shopping en femme with my wife, she on one aisle, me up front (when she tells me about this later outside) when she hears the young SA counter girl softly ask the manager and looking my way.. "Is That a guy or girl"... the manager makes the excuse to walk with and talk to a customer up to the door by me to look ,and returns to the counter leans over and whispers "Its a woman". My wife smiled and thought was hysterical.

At the mall 2 years back, I thought I looked good, went into Claire's bought three pair of clip earrings, smiled chatted with (my femme voice) and made direct eye contact with teenage sales girl who rang me up and was very curious, thank you Mame and all. Then I walk 30 feet away to the food court to the Subway counter to order a Pepsi, a guy in his 30's comes over reads me immediately and has to look at the floor to keep from laughing, he's smirking so. He's trying to get the attention of 2 employees, by winks and elbowing them standing right behind him, but they didn't pay any attention and ignored me totally, engrossed in their conversation and apparently being a normal customer. Only 10 minutes, 30 feet and 2 totally different reactions.

One of my favorite and initially terrifying was one Saturday after stopping at a gas station 7-11 type store to buy some cigarettes,I'm the only customer who is in there .Behind the counter are two young female clerks and a wholesale beer delivery driver unloading. The whole place goes deadly quiet, the stares started as do the whispers and laughter and giggles. Hiding behind the card rack wasn't helpful, they read me big time and i was being ganged up on. I beat it out of there fast,ruined my whole day and attitude...but... I was determined that incident, that store, and that sales girl was not going to win-I WAS!. The following week, I went back to the same store where only only of the (same) female clerks was and bought my smokes, made eye contact, used my voice,said thank you, "have a nice day Mame"
You don't know how tempting it was to say "remember me from last week? Same person Ha-Ha.
Now you explain those differences, I can't. Its unpredictable

I do save the appropriate time to fashionable blend in with skirts dresses, jackets and boots and that is to go to a dozen or so Philharmonic concerts at our (carnegie Hall like) concert hall. THERE I blendin , in a different way... everyone is dressed up for thester and looks classy, including me. Its the only venue I can wear those kind of clothes successfully. It doesn't have to be jeans and sweat at the mall, slacks and tunic or cami top or long sleeve tee works. What doesn't is illustrated in true story below.
A case in point again on NOT blending and looking ridiculous.
Years ago my wife and I were shopping in a discount outlet mall .I was dressed male. Everyone was saturday summer casual. Along come strutting an overly obvious CD wearing a cocktail dress, high heels and clutch purse. Stuck out like a bad shade of lipstick.
Blend in with the crowd,dress as they dress. Keep your feminine sexy dressey for yourself, your mirror and home

Your Turn again. Thanks girls

Megan

[Angiemead12]

That's wonderful wisdom right there! Thanks for sharing. I have been itching to go out again. Maybe this weekend!

[Sophie_C]

It's all quite good advice, although I please must remind people that most people can only go so far as being "accepted" in public. Being "accepted" means that people do know you're a TV/CD, but it's not so outrageous that they have a problem with it. Only a fraction of even 1% of people I have seen have ever "passed" in the sense that they're indistinguishable from a bio woman without fully transitioning.

And, given that most people here aren't intending to fully transition, I see that as the best balance one can have Do a pretty good job. Make some effort. Be tasteful and dress for both the occasion and what's right for your age. Be sensible. Dress in modern clothing, not literally like June Cleaver, since that was 50 years ago no one knows what that is any more. Blend in. Have fun. And, you'll have a great time out.

[Charleen]

Great advice. I'm goin on vacation to Savannah in September and plan to do it all enfemme. After thinking about it for a while and worrying, I realized I just have to be me.