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Thread: Telling the SO, Bad Reaction, Giving up CD'ing

  1. #151
    Member Jaydee's Avatar
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    OK, I've stayed out of this thread long enough. But oh what an interesting discussion.

    First and most importantly, my heart goes out to you Georgi. I feel your situation very acutely. We are similar ages, and have been married about the same length of time. I was very closeted. After finding this website, I was also affected by the "tell her" arguments. It took a couple years of baby steps, but I finally had the discussion about a year ago. It was hard and very scary. I was not sure how she would take the news. It wasn't easy. I was daily afraid she would walk out the door. Fortunately in my case, she took it calmly. She wanted ME to see a therapist, hoping it would cure me. She wouldn't go. In the end the therapist made me feel better about my dressing. She is now tolerating, as long as I keep it out of her sight. I know I am very fortunate, as your case shows, it could have easily gone the other way.

    As seen in this monumental thread, there are arguements on many sides, but real life is never as neat and tidy as it seems in theory.

    Georgi, good luck to you and your wife. I hope it works out for you. The only advice I can give is to continue to show your love, and give her time and space to get her own thoughts together.

    Jaydee

  2. #152
    Member PhillyGuy2Girl's Avatar
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    Every time I hear that a wife/SO doesn't accept CDing I always feel bad. Not to sound like I'm bragging but I'm so happy that my wife loves Felicity as much as P**l. I just wish that all my fellow sisters could have accepting wives/SO's like I have,but unfortunetly its doesn't go that way. I hope everything works out for you.





    Felicity
    "Its now official,my femme name is Felicity"

    Have to drink to that.


    "Proud To Be My Wife's Part Time Wife"

  3. #153
    Banned Read only Satrana's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaydee View Post
    She wanted ME to see a therapist, hoping it would cure me. She wouldn't go.
    There is the heart of the matter. The righteous thought that CDing is abnormal and can be cured while blinding her to the hypocrisy of women's use of masculine clothing. The real problem lies in her head and the social prejudices she has absorbed. It is a tough nut to crack especially if she also feels cheated and distrustful.

    My heart goes out to all those who pluck up the courage to tell and correct the wrong only to have the door slammed shut in their face. Such is life. Your only choice is to keep on trying to get through and hope that cracks appear in her resolve.

    Whenever my wife really goes over the line and I decide to give her the cold shoulder, my resolve never lasts more than a few hours. I cannot imagine actually holding onto a resolve of non-acceptance for years, it would tear me apart. It would drain my love and leave me bitter. I could not stay in such a marriage. I hope things turn out better for everyone.

  4. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by Catherine in Colo View Post
    .

    From what I can gather from your comments, it sounds like both of you are trying to enter some sort of denial. You, that you're not a crossdresser anymore, and for your wife, that you never shared this information with her in the first place.
    Cat
    I think this is a good point. And I think it would be so great if you could see a therapist together. Perhaps one way to encourage her to join you would be to point out that therapy could help her to deal with her feelings of disappointment, etc. about what she has learned.

  5. #155
    AKA Lexi sometimes_miss's Avatar
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    Not all of this is directed at Georgi. But like him, there are plenty of lurkers out there, contemplating telling their SO; so rather than leave all the 'tell her' crowd as the only option, here's my two cents.

    Quote Originally Posted by Georgi View Post
    "Sometimes a lie is better than the truth."
    For some, don't ask, don't tell is the only way to keep everyone together.
    And
    Quote Originally Posted by Georgi View Post
    I finally caved in and told her was the constant counseling of the 'tell her, tell her' crowd on this forum
    Sorry you fell for it, not all of us feel that way. You should have done some careful reconnaisance to see how she felt about the issue first. Sometimes ignorance IS bliss.

    Quote Originally Posted by Georgi View Post
    I also agree that my wife is bent out of shape over the revulsion, and not the deceit.
    Don't kid yourself. It's both. Big time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Miss Misery View Post
    No, I have to disagree here. Giorgi has done what he can, albeit not as soon as some here think is appropriate, BUT he did put it out there AND is going to stop or trying to. Now the ball is in her court so to speak. She can show some compassion for his struggle regardless of whether she decides whether or not she can stay married to him. I think her behavior has more to do with the repulsion at the thought of men dressing as women more than the deceit.
    Unfortunately, she is having to deal with her own shock to the system. Having compassion for the person who caused that shock, for her, will have to come AFTER she is able to grasp the situation and figure out how she is going to deal with it. He is no longer her priority. Her behavior is reactive to having HER husband dressing as a woman, and all the potential problems that entails. Add the deceit and it becomes a huge deal to her.
    The 'monday night football' example is a poor analogy. What he has done changes how she sees her husband, and may very well have destroyed any sexual attraction she felt for him, forever. The potential for disaster was great here, and hoping it would turn out any other way was probably just wishful thinking.

    And
    Quote Originally Posted by Miss Misery View Post
    I'm not trying to downplay the significance of having GG's comment here at all BUT, and I guess I'm making some assumptions here as well, most of them are making a go of it with their CDer.
    Only the GG's who are HERE tend to make a go of it with their CD'er; the ones who aren't accepting aren't going to be here. So the opinions expressed here aren't representitive of the general population. I'm guessing most women wind up splitting up with any guy who comes out as a crossdresser to her . I don't know of any statistics to refer to, however, and it's not something you're going to find in the local newspaper, only the divorce lawyers know for sure, and they're not telling anyone.

    Quote Originally Posted by mklinden2010 View Post
    Second, I'd like to see this "nice" four page letter. Nice? I HATE the "letter" gambit. Gutless, thoughtless, and, clueless. Say it don't play it.
    Not everyone is so eloquent when under pressure. Add to the fact that when you try to discuss something like this, the other person is going to interrupt you so many times you forget everything you want to say, and sometimes making sure everything is on paper is the only way. It also gives her something to refer to after the fact, because she's sure to forget a lot of things. All too often, most women tend to only remember what they want to out of conversations tha deal with arguments or conflict.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tanya83 View Post
    I don't think you can give it up and she knows this. That's what makes it so hard for her.
    No, what makes it so hard is that he's changed how she sees him forever. There's no un-ringing the bell here. Her masculine guy is gone forever, replaced by the image of 'some effeminate guy in a dress'. When women fantasize about having sex with a guy, that's not what they're thinking about. I know, I know, some will disagree. So, find me some romantic woman's literature where the lead male is a crossdresser. Oh, there are none. Right. Silly me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aleria View Post
    Her whole world is upside down, and she feels trapped and unable to tell anyone. Can't imagine she's feeling too good, and every time she sees you, she sees the One Who Ruined It All.
    That's almost word for word what my ex told me, and I'm sure most other women suddenly confronted with their SO being a crossdresser feel the same way.

    Quote Originally Posted by KarenCDFL View Post
    BUT, you are not doing anything wrong as Pythos commented.
    That's only the opinion of the faithful, the ones here. Most of the world, ESPECIALLY wives, will emphatically disagree with that statement.

    Yeah, the truth shall set you free. You can suddenly find yourself free of jobs, free of family, free of friends, free of belongings, free of half (sometimes more than half) of your income, free, yes, means nothing left to lose.
    Last edited by ReineD; 08-10-2010 at 02:20 PM. Reason: Please use the quote tags properly to make sure the person's quote can be clicked on. - Reine
    Some causes of crossdressing you've probably never even considered: My TG biography at:http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/...=1#post1490560
    There's an addendum at post # 82 on that thread, too. It's about a ten minute read.
    Why don't we understand our desire to dress, behave and feel like a girl? Because from childhood, boys are told that the worst possible thing we can be, is a sissy. This feeling is so ingrained into our psyche, that we will suppress any thoughts that connect us to being or wanting to be feminine, even to the point of creating separate personalities to assign those female feelings into.

  6. #156
    Aspiring Member SamanthaS's Avatar
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    I'm wishing you the best hon. So many of "us" keep this from our wivies and feel nothing but guilt about it; then we have someone as brave as you are come fourth and tell the truth only to be shot down over who you really are. I have to ask myself whats the harm in wearing women's clothes? Does it make your man-hood smaller? Does it change how you rise your children? Can you or I wear a skirt part-time and still make a living in the world? Good luck hon

  7. #157
    New Member LaurenEP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pythos View Post
    Several years ago one of the "old men of the airport" an older gentleman that had been flying since WWII, who owned his own airplane came to visit my boss's hanger. That day he was not the happy joking guy he usually was before getting his trusty steed out of the hanger and taking it up for a few hours.

    This day though he was clearly troubled. His wife started acting stupid about his flying. Though not puking in the toilet, she was putting up a stink about the plane (this guy was filthy rich, so it was not anything about finances). They were married I think two or more years.

    .....

    Just like CDing you can't stop flying when aviation is a part of your being.
    This story, which I've abridged in quoting, is very apt. I'm going to remember this. Thank you for this story. There is always something, whether something culturally unacceptable, or culturally celebrated that many people are drawn to and can't help, and there will also always be someone who doesn't approve.

  8. #158
    Banned Read only Miss Misery's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sometimes_miss View Post
    ..The 'monday night football' example is a poor analogy. What he has done changes how she sees her husband, and may very well have destroyed any sexual attraction she felt for him, forever...
    You didn't get the analogy. The point was that the deceit alone, unrelated to the sexuality aspect, WAS NOT the cause of her reaction. So MNF is certainly a fair analogy.

    AND -

    Quote Originally Posted by sometimes_miss View Post
    Only the GG's who are HERE tend to make a go of it with their CD'er; the ones who aren't accepting aren't going to be here.
    THAT'S WHAT THE QUOTE YOU'RE CHALLENGING IS SAYING AS WELL!

    Quote:
    I'm not trying to downplay the significance of having GG's comment here at all BUT, and I guess I'm making some assumptions here as well, most of them are making a go of it with their CDer.
    Last edited by ReineD; 08-10-2010 at 01:54 PM. Reason: Fixed quotes. Again. Am sending you a PM. - Reine

  9. #159
    Banned Read only Satrana's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sometimes_miss View Post
    No, what makes it so hard is that he's changed how she sees him forever. There's no un-ringing the bell here. Her masculine guy is gone forever, replaced by the image of 'some effeminate guy in a dress'. When women fantasize about having sex with a guy, that's not what they're thinking about. I know, I know, some will disagree. So, find me some romantic woman's literature where the lead male is a crossdresser. Oh, there are none. Right. Silly me.
    Classic

    Simply put, women do not date men who fall under the category of "losers" which CDs are included in.

    For a woman to personally fantasize about effeminate men would mean she would have to constantly battle against society's programming of what constitutes a real man. This probably is indicative of TG/Bi feelings on her part but irregardless there are very few of them. The chances of a CD meeting one in normal dating situations is remote.

    Now it is true that some accepting SOs of CDs can find their effeminate man attractive but that is an after the fact situation where the dynamics of the relationship reveals this potential. They never thought this way beforehand otherwise they would have been actively seeking to date CDs all their lives.

    None of this is of any value to a CD who is married to an non-accepting GG. If she can't accept her man in a dress in non-sexual situations, for sure the bedroom is completely out of bounds. Killing off sexual attraction means killing off physical contact which quickly leads to emotional distance and coldness of heart. The death bells are ringing.

    If the marriage continues it is only because it is a marriage of convenience either because of children or the desire to avoid separation and loneliness.

    On the bright side ice is easily melted. Some GGs after a period of time do realize their reaction was misplaced and has caused unnecessary pain for both and begin mending the relationship. This assumes that in the meantime the CD partner has not gone off following his own desires which may derail any chance of reconciliation.

  10. #160
    Senior Member Sarah_GG's Avatar
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    As one of the "tell her" crowd, I applaud you for standing up and being truthful. You have stopped living a lie, you've stopped hiding, you've stopped longing for her to go out of town for a few nights so you can dress.

    It is very EARLY days for your wife. She is having to process a married lifetime of misinformation. She will take time to gather her thoughts. I sincerely hope you are able to direct your wife on to this forum to get support. Believe me, there are many forums/sites out there that are not supportive of the TG community.

    From everything you've said, your situation sounds highly salvageable. But it won't happen over night. I am an accepting GG. I have know since early on in our relationship but when I google certain things on the net, even my toes are apt to curl! But, I'm able to luxuriate in the knowledge that my SO is 100% truthful with me. We talk about the CDing, we read books and we discuss them. My SO isn't trying to hide anything from me. We have a very good relationship. I'm confident that you and your wife will find a way through this difficult time. Just watch the 'pink fog' that might envelop you at your first whiff of her acceptance. Your wife needs to see her man. She has decades of evidence to support that you've been a man. Reassure her that nothing is going to change. Or be truthful about your true desires in that direction.

    If your wife joins us on here she will get the support that she needs. You have support here and a full understanding of what transgenderism is. Your wife has a steep learning curve ahead of her. Inevitably though your relationship can only benefit from the truth. If there is no truth, no trust then there is no relationship.

    Good luck!
    Last edited by ReineD; 08-10-2010 at 01:36 PM. Reason: Sarah, you said you are an accepting CD. Changed it to GG. :)

  11. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by Satrana View Post
    Simply put, women do not date men who fall under the category of "losers" which CDs are included in.
    My anecdotal experience has strongly shown otherwise. Also, many of the experiences related on this forum have shown otherwise.

    I think there are very few women who in particular seek out CDers to date. But, I think there are a great many women who are quite happy to date and marry a CDer, once they know their partner is a CDer.

    I think we should give women a lot more credit. Rational approaches to CDing is not confined to MtF CDing men.

  12. #162
    Gold Member NicoleScott's Avatar
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    Required Reading

    This thread, every post in order, should be required reading for everyone involved in any way with telling, thinking about telling, or recommending telling a SO about your crossdressing desires and activities.

    Many have had positive experiences by telling. Others have had bad initial reactions, only to say that in the long run, it was best for them. And so they think their experiences are typical and heartily recommend that all cd's must come clean, absolute honesty is absolutely required for good relationships, and having secrets is like cheating.

    Well, duh, one size doesn't fit all. There are, as someone posted, "comfortable" relationships that last 30 years as if that's bad. Something must have been right. Maybe some marriages require both partners' brain waves to be in perfect lock-step, but not all do. Some marriages make room for each person to have personal, private thoughts, and the marriage thrives.

    Georgi isn't the first on this forum to have told his spouse and had a bad reaction. Splits happen often, not because of crossdressing, but of her finding out. The marriage was solid until then, but the total honesty argument compelled telling, and BOOM, trouble.

    It's a good idea to recommend telling partners before marrying, but we've discussed all the reasons why this sometimes didn't happen, especially for us older, pre-internet, cd's. But what good does it do Georgi now, that he SHOULD HAVE told? We all know that, NOW.

    And why do some who should know better (Lorileah) keep denying that it's not a fetish thing? For some it's not, for many it is. Look at the number of posts for "Fetishes". It is a fetish thing for me, and Georgi said it is for him, and not a tg-lifestyle thing.

    My wife knows, and accepts, but doesn't participate and prefers that I do my thing without her, and I prefer it that way too. That approach works for us, but won't work for others. My first marriage ended when she found out, that is, when I told her, that I'm a cd. Didn't work for us. So much for honesty.

    I wish the "must tell, you'll be glad" crowd would get a reality check. Sometimes the outcome of telling is bad. I would never recommend Don't Ask DOn't Tell for every situation, because I know it won't work for every one. But it does work for some. Let's present both sides.

  13. #163
    Senior Member Sarah_GG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NicoleScott View Post
    I wish the "must tell, you'll be glad" crowd would get a reality check. Sometimes the outcome of telling is bad. I would never recommend Don't Ask DOn't Tell for every situation, because I know it won't work for every one. But it does work for some. Let's present both sides.
    Personally speaking I'm not able to function when there are secrets in a relationship. I don't like it, it's an insult to my intelligence, an affront to my human rights, that the person I'm choosing to share my life with doesn't trust me enough to share a major part of their life with me.

    However, not everyone is the same. I know that for the older CDs (my SO is 58, I'm 49) it has been difficult to come to terms with an accept this part of oneself. And to many ignorance is bliss. But, we do live in a much more enlightened age now where women go out to work, we all have gay friends... etc, blah blah blah!

    To each his own. But, I won't stop waving the "tell her" banner I'm afraid. Complete honesty is what makes a worthwhile and fulfilling relationship. And I'm not the only GG to espouse that particular view.

  14. #164
    Gold Member NicoleScott's Avatar
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    Sarah GG, I'm all for open, honest marriages. But as you know, some of us who are older grew up alone with our crossdressing, and find ourselves with wanting to be honest but knowing that a bad outcome could result.
    I agree that complete honesty makes for a worthwhile and fulfilling relationship, but I don't believe that you can declare a marriage unsuccessful because the participants have personal, private, unshared thoughts. We are still separate creatures. For example: let's say my wife and I see a woman wearing fishnet stockings. Without prompting, my wife says "I wouldn't be caught dead in those things. Anyone turned on by those is perverted". Well, what if I happen to like fishnets, and would be turned on by seeing my wife in them? Should I tell her that (complete honesty) and allow her to think of me as perverted? Or keep it to myself, knowing and accepting that it's not going to be part of our bedroom activities? And if I keep quiet, is our marriage doomed?

    Yes, we live in a more enlightened age........too bad Georgi's wife isn't so enlightened.

    You can go on waving the "tell her" banner, just be sure to add "but if you do, she may leave you". I don't agree with those who think that if you tell her and she leaves you, the marriage wasn't worth keeping in the first place.
    There's more than one (your) formula for and definition of a successful marriage.

    Sarah, here's the point of my previous post: those considering telling should read every post here (including yours), gather as much information as they can, mix in their own unique circumstances, and make the best, most thoughtful decision possible.

  15. #165
    Banned Read only Miss Misery's Avatar
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    SarahGG -

    You might want to check out the "location" of some of the members on here. All of us don't live in London or the UK for that matter. The states, for example NicholeScott's home of Mississippi, are not quite as accepting of "other" lifestyles as where you live.

    I will also add this question to the "telling" list. What exactly is gained by a GG in being told of their spouse's CDing after 10, 20 30 yrs? The right to decide whether to accept it or not? Okay. But if you don't have a problem with it then how is it of any real value? Sure, sure. The open honest thing but I guarantee that every relationship has things that go "untold". Whether that is deceit or just conveniently forgetting to bring it up is just a matter of semantics.

    You can't know if someone's keeping a secret from you, BECAUSE IT'S A SECRET! You aren't supposed to know. You can only believe they have told you everything.

    As I just got through saying in another post here - with regard to telling your SO "your mileage may vary".

  16. #166
    Senior Member Sarah_GG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NicoleScott View Post
    For example: let's say my wife and I see a woman wearing fishnet stockings. Without prompting, my wife says "I wouldn't be caught dead in those things. Anyone turned on by those is perverted". Well, what if I happen to like fishnets, and would be turned on by seeing my wife in them? Should I tell her that (complete honesty) and allow her to think of me as perverted? Or keep it to myself, knowing and accepting that it's not going to be part of our bedroom activities? And if I keep quiet, is our marriage doomed?
    Absolutely. To each his/her own! But, if you and your wife had that conversation about fishnets wouldn't you seize the opportunity to ask her why she thought that? They may not be to her taste, but perverted?!

    I'm not denigrating anyone who chooses to not tell. My SO didn't tell his first wife... or his second come to that! But perhaps there was a feeling of something being kept, a deceit or secret that caused the breakdown of trust, communication and eventual stagnation of the marriage?

    The CDing isn't part of our bedroom activities either, but occasionally we have a laugh with it and talk about purchases, looks etc. My SO tells me he's always wanted to share it with someone - the getting dolled up and ready to go out - and now he can!

    I do understand many of the reasons that the older CDers don't tell. But, I have a hard time understanding why the young ones don't. It's said over and over again here, it's not the CDing that's been the issue (in many cases)... it's the deceit.

    ps. I bet you look great in fishnets! Many CDers do because they're blessed with fabulous legs.

  17. #167
    Senior Member Sarah_GG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miss Misery View Post
    You can't know if someone's keeping a secret from you, BECAUSE IT'S A SECRET! You aren't supposed to know. You can only believe they have told you everything.
    But, as we know, those secrets do have a habit of being found out. Then shock follows horror and ultimately upset at being lied to.

    I accept that London (indeed much of the UK) is different. I'm very lucky to live in a tolerant accepting society.

    And I have a very simplistic outlook that doesn't suit everyone.

  18. #168
    Aspiring Member EllieOPKS's Avatar
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    I am in complete agreement with Missy when she asked what is there to gain by sharing this information with your SO? I see nothing wrong with having personal privacy. If I had to tell my wife every thing that occurs in my life I think I would rather be divorced. I have things I tell my best friend that I would never share with anyone else. I have things I share with my brother that I do not feel compelled to share with anyone else. I have things I share with my wife that no one should ever know and I have private things that none of the above have any right to know.

    For the love of Pete, what has Giorgio done that is so devastating? Hell, I don't think I would get that kind of reaction if I had confessed to some brutal crime. Personally, I would be telling the wife its time to take your foot off my throat, the holier than thou crap has just ended..........but that's me .

    I wish you the best in accomplishing your goals.

  19. #169
    Ice queen Lorileah's Avatar
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    I am still having a hard time understanding how two people can be married, live together, theoretically speak to each other for 10, 20, 30 years and not know how the opposite feels about some things. You know they don't like strawberries or they don't like rainy days or they don't like cats, but you didn't know they had such a reaction to men in dresses? We all have our own ideas of how marriages and love should go. Mine says if you love someone you love the inner person not the shell. It is why nature made our eyes fail as we age, so you can still see the person as they were but you love the person as they are. We all have secrets. Many don't impact how you and your spouse feel about each other. Some do impact how you feel about yourself and if that secret ferments long enough, it will impact how you feel about your marriage. Feeling like you are being held back (i e not having your spouse accept who you are) can lead to you not liking many things about them which leads to anger and divorce. My opinion, and that is all it is, is that if the presentation you have (the clothes) is enough to make your spouse not love you any more, just how much love was there to start? I also think that many times we know that love is tenuous and we hide to try and save it. But what happens when the next thing comes along that tips the balance (your job, not making enough money, being late because you really are working late for that money, your haircut or god forbid, you becoming ill)? We all react, that is a physical thing. We all have reason, that is an evolved human thing. It isn't so much the initial reaction but how we act afterward. If hate, distance or divorce are the actions after the initial reaction, how solid was the relationship to start?
    The earth is the mother of all people and all people should have equal rights upon it.
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    “Love isn't a state of perfect caring. It is an active noun like struggle. To love someone is to strive to accept that person exactly the way he or she is, right here and now.” - Fred Rogers,

  20. #170
    GG ReineD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EllieOPKS View Post
    I am in complete agreement with Missy when she asked what is there to gain by sharing this information with your SO? I see nothing wrong with having personal privacy. If I had to tell my wife every thing that occurs in my life I think I would rather be divorced.
    If your wife feels the same way about it as you do, if she also has several other people that she confides things to because she simply doesn't want you involved or she doesn't want you to know a part of her core, then I congratulate you both on your mutual arrangement. It works for you, and that's what it is all about.

    But, there are people (among whom I suspect is the OP's wife) who do wish to have a primary relationship with someone, that someone being their romantic partner with whom they have an intimate connection that surpasses all others. This is the person who knows you at your heart's core, and with whom you feel safe disclosing everything without fear of judgment. It takes work to develop relationships like this, it's not easy, but I promise you that it is well worth it.

    It is when one spouse seeks a more distant, arm's length type of connection than the other, that there are issues in the relationships. The partner who has a need for the deeper intimacy feels left out in the cold and there is an imbalance in the relationship.

    I for one would have a difficult time losing myself sexually with someone whom I felt kept me on the periphery of his life. It would be a huge turn-off.
    Reine

  21. #171
    Chewies sister-moulted!
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    Lead balloon time .
    Most crossdressers are are rather selfish bunch one way or another . Sorry - but its true . Wrapped up in ones own feelings of femaninity is one thing , but I think as a man if you can't be honest with your life partner then I'm sorry it's an insult to the oaths you took and worse - her intelligence . It will return to bite you . Theres far too much evidence on here to prove that fact .
    Surely , IF more effort was placed into trying to bridge communication with gentle honesty , rather than deception , then surely a positive gain in a partnership / marriage should be the end result ? It's not easy , but then anything worth its salt - is never easy .
    After all , the notion of ones hubby wearing womens clothes may disgust , frighten or even give way to unbelievable horror , but in contrast that must seem inferior and petty to that of feeling untrusted ? We are our partners towers of strength . They adore the safety and stability we provide . The persom whom they trust the most .
    We - every human being , hates the idea of not being trusted . Its undeniable . Imagine , the stark reality of finding out after years , suddenly being told a secret , that washes away the trust developed over years together . You'd feel robbed , denied , cheated . Try to put yourself in theyre shoes .
    I simply refuse to believe , that material goods , clothes , make up , whatever , are the base reason for any matrimonial break up . There simply has to be an additional reason . Perhaps as " one of the crowd " my outlook may seem blinkered . BUT - it's honest - for better - for worse . If there's one thing on coming out to my wife I've learnt - I treat her as my equal . I give her the honesty I only ever wish to recieve . Because in the end that is all we are left with - honesty being our only excuse . If that offends , well ....
    For those who have come clean - it's a matter of communication that will either make or break the situation . Its not bravado , it's a plea to be finally understood . I can only applaud such behaviour .
    For those who remain in undiscovered by theyre own choice ...well , you have your reasons . They are your own personal choices .
    But do not be surprised if one day it all becomes clear , then things will become very difficult .
    If only we all could talk and LISTEN without fear or pressure .

  22. #172
    Gold Member NicoleScott's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarah_GG View Post
    Absolutely. To each his/her own! But, if you and your wife had that conversation about fishnets wouldn't you seize the opportunity to ask her why she thought that? They may not be to her taste, but perverted?!

    ps. I bet you look great in fishnets! Many CDers do because they're blessed with fabulous legs.
    Thanks, but the truth is, I don't have a thing for fishnets. It was about HER wearing them to enhance bedroom activities. Some people (men and women) think fishnets are for "women of ill repute". Strong feelings, though misguided, but such thoughts do exist, such as some people thinking that if you crossdress, you must be gay. Anyway, it just isn't possible to discuss everything. Would I have a greater burden to tell my fiance that fishnets kind of turn me on, than she does to tell me she is strongly opposed to wearing them, even in the privacy of the bedroom? Anyway, the fishnet thing was just an example of how it is impossible and unnecessary for couples to share EVERYTHING, much less to agree on everything. Keeping some thoughts private isn't necessarily a breech of honesty. Was Georgi's wife's failure to tell him that the idea of a man wearing a dress nauseated her a breech of honesty? Total honesty may come with a price, such as the ruin of a 30-year marriage.
    Again, my point is that both sides should be presented.

  23. #173
    Member Jaydee's Avatar
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    This is an important thread. I truly feel Georgi's pain, and the others in similar situations. To tell or not is a difficult decision, with possible dire consequences, and you can't "unring" the bell

    I think also there are more issues for the SO than deceit. In my case, for example. I told her about a year ago, after 33 years of marriage. She wasn't so much distressed by my not telling her, as she understood (raising kids, medical issues, etc). What has caused her the most discomfort is that she no longer sees me as the strong man that she had always known. Where before, when we went shopping for her clothes, she was proud of what she saw as my inner strength of being able to enter the women's department. Now she doesn't want me anywhere near when she shops for clothes.

    For me the positive effect of telling is that I no longer have to worry about her finding out on accident, and we can discuss my gender issues openly, even if not often. On the other hand, we have lost something too. I can see a loss of esteem in her eyes, I am not the man she thought I was. I miss that. She seems less passionate when we are intimate. I see this as a time of probation. I am having to be careful of what I say or do. I know she still loves me, but it has been a difficult time. She needs lots of reassurance. I am trying to keep the lines of communication open without overwhelming her.

    I would say to those still in the closet, there is no one size fits all answer, but that they should think about coming out. They know their SO's better than anyone else. No one can tell them the "right" answer. I had been working towards coming out with baby steps for a couple years. That allowed me to judge the waters.

    Jaydee

    P.S.: Good Luck Georgi!

  24. #174
    Ice queen Lorileah's Avatar
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    I understand that I cannot see this through the spouse's eyes but explain just how one becomes less of something by telling who you are? Did you lose muscle mass? Did you lose the ability to do household things? Exactly how did you become less of who you are? I get that she may "think" so but you are the one who will allow the idea to be so. So you had big cahones to walk into a woman's department but now you are nullified? Why because you are no longer the rebel? Not really grasping this.

    You are MORE now that you are out to her. None of the stuff you could do before suddenly left you and unless you are on hormones you can still be strong or whatever. Your brain did not change. This is all you not her. It may be what she said she thinks of you but you let it go. You could have proven that you are just as masculine when needed. Did you just give up? Why can't you be both? Women say they want tenderness compassion caring softness at times. You have that. You also can still hit a ball over the fence, mend that fence and guard the gate. None of that went away the day you said "Hey I like skirts".

    If you reinforced this then yes you are less the man she knew. It was up to you to prove you were still the person she loved and it isn't your muscles or beard or whatever you believe makes a man. I think I see now that some here associate being a man with their clothes an when confronted they just prefer to let the falsehood ride. This isn't easy people. Just because you come out does not mean you don't have to keep working
    The earth is the mother of all people and all people should have equal rights upon it.
    Chief Joseph
    Nez Perce



    “Love isn't a state of perfect caring. It is an active noun like struggle. To love someone is to strive to accept that person exactly the way he or she is, right here and now.” - Fred Rogers,

  25. #175
    Aspiring Member Christy_M's Avatar
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    Jul 2010
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    I am relatively new here and I am engrossed in the similarities I am finding in other's experiences. There ar e a couple of things I have noticved in this short time here though:

    It seems that we are all very interested in each other's well being. I truly believe this even with the bickering.

    We, like most of society have people that fall along a continuum that isn't "one-size-fits-all". although I am an advocate for honesty in the relationship, there are just those things you don't talk about (like the dent in the car or the porn in the computer or any number of things that just don't need to be discussed.

    There seems to be some people who come across as self righteous in that their belief on where they fall on the continuum is where everyone falls or will eventually fall. I have no idea where I fall or where I might end up or if this is just on long changing journey. The highlights of which will be determined at the right time for me just as everyone else will have to find their "right times" to move along this continuum.

    Unfortunately, there is also a lot of stereotypical "guy" stuff here trying to fix every single problem that comes up. Sometimes, venting is just that...getting it off our chest without the need for a reply.

    Also, unfortunately, there is a lot of stereotypical girl stuff going on here, too. There is a tone with some of the posts that appear judgmental when we are not in each other's shoes (although I have seen a few cute one here).

    Georgi is going through a pretty rough patch and probably doesn't need us to "fix it" for him. he has to find his spot on the continuum and decide when his highlights will come. I wish the best for him and his SO. My wife told me that If I continue to CD she will leave me. That was 4 years ago. I haven't told her I am still doing it, yet but I think that highlight of my life is coming up real quick.

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