To Pass or Not to Pass?

[Tulip]

I am a GG who loves her transvestite pal. This question has come up many times, yet for my friend there is no choice. He is so athletic, broad shouldered, passing is not going to happen. I've read opinions on using forms, cinchers and such versus all natural you for better comfort.

For my part, I would like going along on a vacation, where he feels he can dress with anonymity without tension to "pass." He says, "Its a goal, but I know I won't."

What is your take on this? If you have experience passing for female, was it all you thought it would be? If you are more like my friend, what helps you accomplish goals? Or are you happy to be the best you can be, and find some pleasure dressing around accepting loved ones? Is it about passing so no one knows...or others know but the acceptance is the overall goal? Acceptance is passing?

[sissystephanie]

When my late wife was alive, I did, and could, pass! That was because my dear wife was an expert with makeup and fixing my wig! Now that she has passed on, I don't even try. I am not good with either makeup or my wig. So I go out as a man in a skirt or dress. I get smiles from people, but in 5+ years have not received one bad comment. Have had many compliments on my outfits!!! If you are happy with what you are wearing, that is all that counts!!

I never wanted to be a female, I just like to dress like one. but it was fun to sometimes look comletely feminine and "Pass!" BTW, I think your friend is really a Crossdresser, and probably not a Transvestite. A Transvestite dresses in the clothing of the opposite sex primarily for sexual reasons! If your friend does not do that, he is a Crossdresser!

[Violetgray]

The right makeup can go a long way toward helping one pass. Also, wearing clothing meant to distract the eye from the masculine and decieve it with the feminine. For example, I still have the biceps and shoulders from my weightlifting days, so I avoid anything with a tank top. Also, my hip pads are better disguised when wearing an empire waist top or dress.

I've been known to pass off an on, so I hope that helps! Anymore questions please let us know!

[Phoebe Reece]

I personally think "passing" is overrated. I used to worry about it when I first started going out, but soon realized that there was no way I would pass in all situations. Nothing ever bad happened as a result of being "read" as a crossdresser, so I stopped being concerned about it and started having a good time. I found that I actually had more fun when people read me as a crossdresser and gave me an opportunity to talk with them about it. I've cleared up a lot of misconceptions about crossdressing with these one on one encounters. It doesn't bother me if a couple of people walk past me and I hear one say to the other, "That was a man in a dress" - as long the other one replies, "Yes, but doesn't he look good in it."

For me, crossdressing is about going out and having fun with it.

[kellycan27]

I don't wish to offend anyone, but i personally think that passing is only overrated if you can't do it. If you can pass it's like walking through a magic door that is usually reserved for GG's. The attention, the extra service, guys vying for your attention and bending over backwards to try and impress you or to make you happy. Just about everywhere you go someone is willing to go that extra mile to please you. At the grocery store, the box boy will walk past the mom with her three kids and two carts of groceries and ask if you need help carrying a gallon of milk to your car. The hardware guy in home depot ignoring 10 other customers in his isle....to help you first. Cuts in line at the clubs... It's way better than i ever imagined it would be to pass. And that's just a part of it. is passing the most important thing? NO, but it can be a lot of fun. I think that if more people could actually experience passing, there would less people saying that it is overrated.

Kel

[Stephanie Miller]

That may be true Kelly... if you're young and cute. But what the rest of us see when we go out is something all together different. I think a lot of GG's tend to over-rate passing because they themselves have fallen into a form of "everyday normal". Before I get flamed by the Gg's, let me explain. Ever since they were young, society has treated Gg's different (I'm talking in general here. I know there are exceptions.). Mom and dad would hollar at the boys to take it easy on your sister. Open the door for ladies. Carry that for her. Give her your coat if she's cold (while you freeze your butt off), etc. etc. For instance I watch all the time as a GG and I will converge on the door at the same time and they EXPECT me to open the door and let them in first. They expect the man to get the drinks.
So when a man wants to emulate, be, or just experience what it is to be a woman (as much as can be) the Gg's don't understand. They don't understand that we haven't had any "perks" like you talk about. We don't get the attention like they do. We don't get the clothes options they do. We don't get to choose to put on make-up that makes us look/feel younger/prettier. Because they are use to it.
Yes, both sides of the fence experience different things. We just want to experience what is "normal everyday" to them. Good and bad. I've had bad hair days. Hate them, but glad I experienced them.
(O.K. flame away.

[Fab Karen]

You may pass well, but that special treatment will fade with your youth, Kelly.
We who go out in the world are explaining to those who want the fresh air of freedom to unlock the cell door because they hold the key. You don't need to be young & gorgeous or pass 100% to live life. That's the point.

[Barbra_in_Tulsa]

I personally think "passing" is overrated. I used to worry about it when I first started going out, but soon realized that there was no way I would pass in all situations. Nothing ever bad happened as a result of being "read" as a crossdresser, so I stopped being concerned about it and started having a good time. I found that I actually had more fun when people read me as a crossdresser and gave me an opportunity to talk with them about it. I've cleared up a lot of misconceptions about crossdressing with these one on one encounters. It doesn't bother me if a couple of people walk past me and I hear one say to the other, "That was a man in a dress" - as long the other one replies, "Yes, but doesn't he look good in it."

For me, crossdressing is about going out and having fun with it.

Pretty much sums it up, doesn't it?

[JiveTurkeyOnRye]

I'm a broken record on this subject, but I personally hate the power "passing" has over the TG community, like it's the holy grail we should all strive for. I think there's a false equivalency between "passing" and "looking good."

I'm not saying that everyone needs to go to my men in skirts extreme, but that doesn't mean someone can't look good in women's clothes without looking convincingly like a woman. Instead of trying to "pass," everyone should try to find the combination of things that both make them look their best, and feel their best. In Kelly's case, she's lucky enough to not only pass, but to pass as a cute girl. That's great for her, and she should flaunt it while she can, and that's her perspective to share. It just isn't the case for all of us, that's all, but we don't need to hide who we are because of it.

[Sandra]

My SO is a TS for her it's not what's on the outside but what on the inside. She's not bothered about passing ans never has been, yes she likes to looks nice but that's about as far as it goes for her.

[Emily Ann Brown]

Head to a gay club and get some confidence.

"Passing" is about being confortable as a woman whre you are. Act like nothing is wrong...because nothing is!!!!!

Dress like the GGs when you are going, and don't standout !!!

I find being with a GG seems to add credibility to my presentation. What I don't know.

Em

[AllieSF]

Hello and congratulations for having such good taste in an SO! I personally am fortunate because I am short, small boned, petite, and except for my little friendly belly, thin. I try to dress well in the styles that I like to see GG's, including my EX, my daughter and past girlfriends wear. I pass from a distance only. I also go out regularly to mainstream venues like any other person, male or female.

Why do I tell you all this background? Passing for some is a serious goal, but not for me. I work at fitting in, blending in and being accepted by those with whom I converse, and that is with everyone I come into contact with when dressed! I believe that if one has the correct attitude, confidence and personality, they can accomplish the fitting and blending in with others while out. Now, a thick skin is also required because you never know when some idiot will make an unnecessary negative comment. Yes, some will have a very hard time blending in, however, to me the key element is the confidence and personality.

[AKAMichelle]

Getting out in public is more like a journey. Like the butterfly in your profile pic. We start out as ugly ducklings. Some not ugly and eventually over time turn into a beautiful woman. I don't feel like I pass very well, but I definitely am able to blend in. I don't attract attention at 1000 yards, but up close everyone knows that I am a guy. That's ok since I am only being me.

[t-girlxsophie]

I dont pass,but am happy to be out there enjoying my girlie time,It may be the Holy Grail to some,but I think it can put a lot of pressure on you,I try to look as femme as I can,and dress nice but It still wont make me Pass,but that fact doesn't put me off being myself

Sophie xx

[kimdl93]

right now, I know I can't "pass" but I am spending more time in public in clearly feminine tops, heels and a little makeup...with my SO's support and encouragement. Its sort of an intermediate step - and perhaps one day we'll just go all out.

[Tasha McIntyre]

Firstly, I don't think I will ever pass. Mainly because of my height and athletic build. But ya know what....so what!

I present myself the best I can, and have a lot of fun getting out and about.

I personally think "passing" is overrated. I used to worry about it when I first started going out, but soon realized that there was no way I would pass in all situations. Nothing ever bad happened as a result of being "read" as a crossdresser, so I stopped being concerned about it and started having a good time.

I dont pass,but am happy to be out there enjoying my girlie time.

I relate closely to these two posts.
Thank you Phoebe and Sophie.

Tash

[Rachel Morley]

I personally am fortunate because I am short, small boned, petite ..... I work at fitting in, blending in and being accepted by those with whom I converse, and that is with everyone I come into contact with when dressed! I believe that if one has the correct attitude, confidence and personality, they can accomplish the fitting and blending in with others while out.

If you can pass it's like walking through a magic door that is usually reserved for GG's.

The real problem with "passing" is one of definition. If "passing" means that someone thinks you you are a genetic female when you are not, then very few of us will meet that definition all the time. However, if "passing" means that you have been accepted as the woman that you are presenting, a much larger number of us will achieve that. The thing is that unless you ask someone, you never know for sure if that person really thinks you are female or if they just accept you as the woman you are presenting.

I agree with the above comments. I'm 5ft 4ins tall, 130lbs, with US women's size 8 feet. I generally dress the same as GGs my own age. I go out to mainstream places ranging from the grocery store, to fast food restaurants, to the mall, to Walmart, etc etc ... and I'm fairly sure I pass pretty good from a distance. Up close? .... I have no idea, as almost all of the time, people do not let me know that they have read me, but do they know? ... or do they think I'm an ugly woman with too much makeup on? .... just like Phoebe said: "... unless you ask someone, you never know for sure if that person really thinks you are female or if they just accept you as the woman you are presenting" Whatever the answer, I don't care one way or the other ... just as long as they don't give me a hard time I'm ok with whatever they are truly thinking.

[Loni]

look lower on this sight and look in
"up coming events"
then
"holiday at sea October 30 2010"

maybe not quite what you two want but i hear it is a great thing for couples.

loni

[Gerrijerry]

MY feelings on passing It was important to me. In the beginning I was totally afraid to go out and hear the words. Look that is a male dressed as a woman. I joined a group called TRI ESS and there learned to relax and in time I was told I pass. Was it a big deal to pass. To me it was because the day came when I was out and I just had to use the ladiesroom. I always avoided that. I also knew it would not be safe using the mens room in female mode. So having no other choice I went in and did what I went in there for. Yes others were in the room when I can out and washed my hands a women looked at me and said. I like your bag where did you get it. I said it was a coach bag and the store was in the mail where we were. She said thank you and that was it. When I left there a few minutes later I knew I passed. I actually finally felt I was one person again not two people in one body. Many may say they love to be noticed I don't I just want to be just another woman and fit in.

[tricia_uktv]

Hi Tulip,

Its the person, not the passing that matters. I pretty much pass but sometimes I get a bit cheeky and don't wish to. Its then that I am at my best. Its just about having fun,

Good luck

[Tulip]

Thank you to everyone answering my question. I'm so pleased with this site. And yes, Barbra, it pretty much summed it up. As a GG, I'd hope that statement would be the perspective of my SO.

Whatever perspective you have, best wishes to all of you!

-Mel

To quote Stephanie "I think a lot of GG's tend to over-rate passing because they themselves have fallen into a form of "everyday normal". Before I get flamed by the Gg's, let me explain. Ever since they were young, society has treated Gg's different (I'm talking in general here. I know there are exceptions.). Mom and dad would hollar at the boys to take it easy on your sister. Open the door for ladies. Carry that for her. Give her your coat if she's cold (while you freeze your butt off), etc. etc. For instance I watch all the time as a GG and I will converge on the door at the same time and they EXPECT me to open the door and let them in first. They expect the man to get the drinks.
So when a man wants to emulate, be, or just experience what it is to be a woman (as much as can be) the Gg's don't understand."

I like to think I'm a GG who understands this. I've enjoyed those perks, and as a hot young woman. It can be great. I'm a realist, too. I think everyone who has posted on this thread is likely a realist. I don't get the perks as much as I used to, and it will probably happen less and less with time... Well, until I can be an adorable old lady ; ) I plan to get away with murder then.

[charlie]

Hello Tulip!
I don't know the degree with which I pass or do not pass. I think what I do accomplish is to be able to go out and blend. At stores, the mall or the movies I usually do not get stares, comments or hassled. When I go to places that I'm known I'm told that I have great outfits, look feminine and am pretty. For me, a 60 year old in a dress... that is great. I dress and try to be the best woman that I can be....and then scoot out the door. For me that is plenty, fun and an adventure each time that I go out.

[Kelly Greene]

Tulip:
Passing can mean many things from:
Do I look ok ..... does my outfit match and is my makeup ok
OR
When I am "READ" will people at least say I look nice.

OR
Can I walk into a room and be taken for female without question

I have been whistled at, laughed at and called “mam” all in the same day.

I prefer the “Do I look ok” version of passing because I know that some people don’t look to close and all they will see is a nice pair of legs while others examine everyone they see under a microscope and are very willing to point out the man in a dress.

If my goal was to be taken as a woman by J.Q. public then I had better get used to being disappointed with my results most of the time, so I try to look nice, relax and have a good time. If others like what they see cool and if not well I am not dressing to please others and I should not others decide how I present myself..

[t-girlxsophie]

Tulip:
Passing can mean many things from:
Do I look ok ..... does my outfit match and is my makeup ok
OR
When I am "READ" will people at least say I look nice.

thats exactly the way I feel now about "passing" as long as I am treated with respect and maybe even just one person thinks theres a crossdresser.he looks not too bad.at least he made the effort-and i am left to enjoy my day out that would be a good femme time for me-out tomorrow so hopefully can have that day then

sophie xx

[Vickie_CDTV]

A friend once explained passing this way to me, and I think it is appropriate for the discussion in this thread.

1. Not everyone has to have passing as a goal. If one doesn't care about passing, that is as valid as those who dress and do want to pass.

2. Those who dress and pass will be able to experience treatment by others (in some areas anyway) as a GG would and get the "authentic GG experience in public" (as they explained.) Those who don't pass will not get the same treatment, it may not be worse but it will not be the same.

3. Those who dress and go out and pass will not experience the potential harassment that those who dress and go in public and do not pass may be exposed to. If one passes, they can use the ladies room and other gender specific facilities without fear of trouble; those who do not pass must be very careful about restrooms to avoid being read and possible trouble.

4. Not everyone can dress and pass 100%. Some folks are fortunate and they easily pass because they look, sound and come off in person as female with little to no effort. Some folks may not be able to pass at all for reasons beyond their control (often a combination of voice, extreme height and build.) Such is life unfortunately, one can work very very hard but for some it will never be enough to pass 100%; all they can do is do the best job they can and accept themselves as they are, and use common sense in public to avoid possible trouble.