We've got a long way to go, baby (or NO, you can't try that on)

[Sara Jessica]

I found myself conducting somewhat of a social experiment yesterday, as unintentional as it was. I had some business to attend to across town and afterwards I had a little outing planned to meet up with my friend "D". Well as luck would have it, it was fairly warm here in SoCal and she spent the day moving some stuff from storage into her new home and was completely spent. I was actually relieved because I felt the same way, that my business went a bit longer than planned and all I could think about is getting back home. But I had spied a little boutique store in my travels so I thought I'd pay a visit, in guy mode.

Setting the scene, I had changed into casual guy wear, jeans and a long sleeved collarless shirt. Not an overtly masculine appearance but no question about presenting in guy-mode. Also, let the record reflect I had zero intention of trying anything on. I simply wanted to browse.

I walk in and two women were there, a SA (or owner?) and a customer. Immediately, the SA starts chatting me up in a positive way. I'm thinking this is cool as I browse the racks, seeing a store full of familar designers. Then I saw it, in the dress section there was this dressy pants outfit that totally struck a nostalgic nerve in that it was very similar to a long-gone-and-forgotten outfit I had back in the early-90's. It was red, the pants were dressy and flowy (is that a word?) while the top was sleeveless and seemed to have a lot going on. OK, that's it, I really want to try this on. So as the SA gushes on how lovely the outfit is and asks what size I'm looking for, I replied that I'm typically a size 8 in this kind of style and asked if it would be OK if I tried this on. Her reply was immediate and emphatic as if rehersed despite the uneasy look on her face...

"Oh no, we don't let men in the dressing rooms".

My reply? "That's fine, I just won't buy it." to which SA kept saying "I'm sure it would fit you" etc. as I put it back on the rack.

I browsed a bit more and then thought of something. I had my camera in my pocket so I took it out and showed her two pictures from my chip. The look on her face was almost as if she saw a ghost, probably better described as a sudden moment of clarity. "OMG, look at you, so feminine" she said, among other things. By this time the customer in the store had left and the SA invited me to try on the red outfit, over and over again to the point where she was practially begging. My response? Sorry, not a chance. I explained nicely & politely that I shop where I am made to feel welcome and her initial response revealed her true colours. I was very clear that she lost a sale.

When all was said and done, I completely misread the situation. It happens, and I'm not discouraged. Perhaps the SA will respond different should another TG individual someday follow in my wake. In the meantime, this demonstrates that despite those wonderful niches of acceptance we often experience, we have such a long way to go when it comes to acceptance by society at large.

[kimdl93]

I understand your reaction...but I'm a push over. I would have given in and tried on that outfit.

[suchacutie]

I'm sure that this SA will now figure out a way to allow "men" into the dressing rooms in an appropriate way.

But this brings up a point, doesn't it. In stores that cater to both genders there really is not an issue. I can take women's clothes into the men's dressing room and even if I get some looks, that's all there is. However, in stores that were initially designed by women for women, there isn't this accomodation, and it's clear that they really hadn't thought about it.

So, here we are taking the first steps of educating SAs that there will be those identifying as males needing to use a dressing room if there is to be a sale. Once we get to the point where it's common for SAs to know this, I'm sure the next step will be be that even single-gender boutiques will be designed with us in mind!

slow but steady progress

tina

[kellycan27]

While I do understand your frustration, sounds to me like you may have caught her off guard. She did try and make amens by offering to let you try on the outfit. If we expect people to be tolerant of us... shouldn't we tolerant of them. Maybe give them a second chance instead of getting our panties in a bunch and try to teach them a "lesson" ? It was a lose lose for both of you. She lost a sale, and you lost an outfit. A little patience on your part could not only have resulted in you finding a place to shop,getting a cute new outfit, and her getting a little education about crossdressers.
You are right... we do have a long way to go, but we won't get far if we are rigid.

Kel

[AKAMichelle]

You are forgetting something. She had a customer in the store and you weren't presenting as a woman. So she didn't want other women to feel threaten by a male in the dressing room. I think you are over reacting somewhat. The SA was caught off guard and she was just trying to make it up to you by offering to let you try on the item after the customer left. I do understand how you feel being prevented from trying on the outfit.

You have to look at this from a different perspective. Would you like your wife or daughter to be in the dressing room trying on clothes and any man could come back there with them?

Regardless of the outcome, the SA will come up with a better solution next time this happens.

[dilane]

Sara,

I think that was spiteful. The education took place when she saw the picture, her eyes got big, and thereby gained respect for you.

Remember, the public has been conditioned for umpteen years that we are psychos and sickos, and the daytime shows often reinforce that fact. You showed her how a normal looking and decent acting guy could be a great looking woman.

It's like you couldn't resist sticking it to her. Is that positive PR?

-- Diane

[Prissy Linda]

Totally agree with Kelly.

[Inna]

[SIZE="3"]I think our expectations of world bending to our needs is somewhat unrealistic. I often find the attitude we have towards rejection or misunderstanding is rigid and sort of way, unforgiving, it is almost as trying to be so womanly we can't handle a rejection like woman would but stand our ground exactly as male ego! Thank you Sara for posting this story and your own feeling of some regret of not being softer and more forgiving about it, I believe we should focus our attention on just that, becoming more forgiving and giving just like majority of woman are.[/SIZE]

[Chickhe]

I don't understand, all dressing rooms are partitioned...I mean one customer does want to see another changing anyways. So I don't get the big deal... but I guess it is because the business thinks their majority of female customers would not like it... so I think the pictures was a good idea, it was like asking, if I look like a female would it be okay? ...in other words, if I blend in an don't cause a disruption, it would be fine. I think the message was clear and not buying is your choice, but we have to remember, we are guests in the woman's world and if we want them to ask us to stay we should show some respect for the existing rules even if they are not exactly correct.

[tanyalynn51]

I agree with everyone who feels she had learned a lesson. Positive reinforcement would have happened if you had let her help her, and if nothing else, at least one more person would be on our side.

[Nigella]

If the changing rooms were specifically for females and there were provisions for males, then the SA would be within her rights to refuse access to the female changing area, especially as you were presenting male.

If there are no facilities available for males to change, unless this store is specifically and exclusivily for females, then the SA may be in breach of equality laws by refusing a male access to the changing room.

As a non op TS my response immediately would have been "but I'm not male, I am female, or to be more precise a TS". If there had been a further refusal then I would not have hesitated, I would have advised them that they had lost a sale this time, then walked out of the store.

[DonnaT]

I agree with everyone who feels she had learned a lesson. Positive reinforcement would have happened if you had let her help her, and if nothing else, at least one more person would be on our side.

Agreed!

But hey, who wants to wear pants (trousers) anyway?

[TxKimberly]

Frankly I'm with Sara,

Either we are welcome and accepted customers or we aint. How would the African Americans have reacted and felt had they been told back in the 50's "Sure you can try that on - right AFTER all of my valued and important clients leave." That's just a hop-skip-jump from "Sure you can ride the bus, as long as you sit in the back where we don't have to see ya'!"

The hell you say!

Sara, I think you did the right thing, now go give your money to someone that wants you and welcomes you all of the time, NOT just when the people she values leaves.

[AllieSF]

I also agree with Sara. I do understand the other's viewpoint. However, we were not there, Sara was polite and made a very valid point, reinforced by Kimberly's comparison, which is valid and appropriate. Remember that the SA told Sara to buy it, take it home because she was sure it would fit. This lady will now think twice about losing a sale, especially since it is a small shop that in these rough economic times needs business. The issue with dressing rooms is interesting. However, when male and females of all ages have no problem sharing them in a lot of mainstream stores, why should they not do the same in smaller stores. actually, it is not the customer but the store owner's that set the policy, which should be open for one and all!

[Kathi Lake]

I can see both sides of the coin.

On one side, the SA had a need and a desire to protect her clientele - whether partitioned or not, a man in the dressing room can be an emotional experience for a woman. It's not what would happen, but what could happen.

On the other hand, people must learn to disassociate us from the common mythos of a "molesting pervert." If it takes some lost sales to get it through their heads, then so be it. Sara, I know that there are many boutiques where you are not only welcome, but treasured. Shop there.

Kathi

[Sara Jessica]

Wow, look at the diversity in the replies...thank you to everyone! This clearly brought up some deeper issues which I will try to address in general.

But first of all, I have to thank Kelly, Michelle and Diane for being so matter of fact with your perspective...and for your honesty. I really do appreciate that but let me try to convey something that perhaps didn't come across in the words upon the screen...

"Oh no, we don't let men in the dressing rooms".

Very matter of fact in every way, shape and form. What I might not be conveying so well is the coldness of the delivery. There was no "gee, can you wait until this customer leaves" or anything else. Trust me, I am first in line when it comes to helping to educate anyone who will listen about the TG experience, especially when it comes to our public interactions. My reaction had nothing to do with spite. It had everything to do with the fact the shopkeeper made it clear that my kind of business wasn't welcome. Kimberly absolutely nailed it, that I will spend my money where it is absolutely welcome.

As for the opportunity to educate, that's what showing her the two pictures was all about. I wanted to show (as Diane so aptly put it) that a normal looking and decent acting guy could be a great looking woman. That's really where the lesson ended. It wasn't all about my thinking "if I show her my other side, she'll let me try on the outfit" or anything like that. The SA's singing of another tune was indicative of understanding of some understanding on her part but it came across like desperation to make a sale at that point.

Like I said before, there are a bunch of other issues which are totally fair game to be discussed here....our roles and responsibilities as customers, as those who can help educate others, how we impact other customers regardless of our presentation, whether it is reasonable for us to expect to use fitting rooms, etc. I have said elsewhere that I rarely will use a fitting room like this in guy mode yet on the opposite end of the viewpoint, there are others who profess that it is our absolute right to do so. Whatever one chooses on their path, part of my point was that we can run into resistance at so many turns which really should be of no surprise to anyone.

[JulieC]

I was very clear that she lost a sale.

...and...

we have such a long way to go when it comes to acceptance by society at large.

And one of the ways in which we nudge the ball forward is doing exactly what you did; making it clear that subacceptable behavior will not be treated kindly. Either respect us, or you won't have our business.

[joandher]

"Oh no, we don't let men in the dressing rooms".

THE WORD BEING "ROOMS" THERE IS ALSO A SEXUAL DISCRIMINATION ACT TO STOP THINGS LIKE THIS OCCURRING,
IN MY HUMBLE OPINION YOU WERE QUITE RIGHT



J-JAY

[Blaire]

The SA was put in an awkward situation, which she may or may not have been prepared for. The customer having left before the offer may or may not have been coincidence. Going from "no men allowed" to "please go ahead" sounds like a pretty good recovery by the SA.

Frankly, were I her, I would ended the day wondering what kind of jackass stunt this was, and why it was her turn to have her chain jerked. No question it was lose lose.

[dilane]

Thanks for not getting offended, Sara.

I see your logic, but still respectfully disagree here.

I propose our own little beer summit (or wine summit!) next time you come up to LA. I can usually get out most afternoons or evenings.

Regards,

Diane

[crossdrezzer1]

do what i do,,just email the owner,,manager ect and explain why they wont see you again and the loss of a sale and more important the lost of others since we all know of that store not being cd friendly,,, dont want the sales lady to get in trouble but would like her to have a class on special need clients like ourselfs

[DaphneGrey]

I wouldn't have let you use the dressing room either. I think you are being silly and doing our community no favors!

[Kathi Lake]

What?! Can you explain your position and thoughts a bit more, Daphne?

Kathi

[Danni Bear]

I wouldn't have let you use the dressing room either. I think you are being silly and doing our community no favors!

I agree with Kath. why do you feel that way Daphne?

Danni

[Leslie Langford]

Sara,

As some others here have said, I also can see both sides of this issue. Yes, our money should be as green as any other GG customer's when it comes to buying women's clothes, and yes, it is not our fault that virtually no women's' clothing store has provisions for "male" fitting rooms on the off-chance that one of us CDer's might want to come in and make a purchase there. And yet, other "minorities" do get consideration for their special needs in such instances - witness the almost universal legal requirement to provide designated parking spots, ramp access to public buildings, and specially outfitted washrooms for handicapped individuals. And what about peanut allergy sufferers and the accommodations that are expected of 99% of the rest of the population who do not suffer from this affliction to ensure their safety and well-being? Are we crossdressers not entitled to a similar level of respect for our needs - especially since we are also paying for our own way in the process? But in all fairness, the SA did reverse her position when she realized that you were not just yanking her chain by requesting the use of a fitting room and when there was no longer a risk of you possibly unsettling a GG customer by your presence there.

But what really rankles me here is the double standard that exists when it comes to fitting rooms. I can't begin to count the number of times when I have been in a men's fitting room trying on men's clothes (yeah, harsh reality dictates that I also have to buy guy clothes from time to time ) and have seen women (especially teen-aged girls) walk in nonchalantly as if they owned the place to try on men's' jeans or the like after having browsed for their selections in that section. And as we all know, GG's love their "menswear", and sometimes skip the watered-down feminized versions and just go for the real deal. Of course, they are not crossdressers in society's eyes when they do that whereas we are, but I digress....

Women seem to have a pronounced sense of entitlement when it comes to such things, and I have begun to adopt the same attitude regarding my right to try on women's' clothes before I buy - whether en femme, or in drab. And don't even get me started on those women who think nothing of barging into the men's room when the line-ups for the women's' washrooms become too long for their liking...