Hands on hips – masculine or feminine?

[Frédérique]

[SIZE="2"]Do you put your hands on your hips anymore? Men used to, but you don’t really see it much these days. Either that, or I’m not looking in the right places. I mean standing, both hands firmly attached to the hips. I would say placed rather than attached, but the former indicates effeminacy, while the latter reads masculine. Sorry, but I notice these subtleties of gesture all the time...

Nowadays you see men with their arms folded over their chest, legs apart (giving the “package” some room), exuding defensiveness or strength via body language. I know this because a young woman once educated me about this somewhat neglected form of human symbolism. What are you trying to tell me with your crossed arms? I’m a MAN? Just try to get by me? I enjoy beer? Hey, you tell me. I never cross my arms like this, mainly because I cross-dress! Get it? The other, similar, male gesture you see is the thumbs hooked into the pockets of the jeans (or belt loops if you’re more...rural), framing the belt buckle (how big is yours?) and/or package in a transparent display of male potency. I understand. You aren’t someone I can talk to about skirt lengths – have you ever met a fairy before? Gotcha...

When I went to art school, I engaged in displays of effeminacy at all times. Why? How? Well, if you stand at your easel, brush in hand, rendering the curvature of a breast, or the myriad features of a face, you usually place one hand on your hip for balance. You’re usually wearing an apron, too, and you’re surrounded by female students struggling with their own interpretations of the model. Everyone who hangs around, day in and day out, engaged in this artistic drudgery, will take on innocent gestures that look effeminate to the outside world simply by osmosis. You’re trying to keep from falling over, and effeminacy helps! I think you should embroider that saying and hang it on the wall! Your very being is in the balance...

Whenever I’m in the company of men, a rare event these days, I always cross my legs whilst standing, place one foot in front of the other, and put one hand on my hip, the other arm dangling at my side, or gesturing to enhance my speech. This tells the other "fellas," in a not too subtle manner, that I’m not one of them. Something is going on just below the surface, boys – can you guess what it is? Pardon me while I giggle...


Hands on hips may be more continental in origin, thus undesirable for American males. I can think of several examples in Art, such as Gainsborough’s “Blue Boy,” Donatello’s “David,” or Cezanne’s “Boy In A Red Waistcoat.” These boys are all approachable human beings, receptive to feelings, an intrinsically European characteristic, IMHO. Rembrandt did a self-portrait where he portrayed himself with both hands on his hips – a sensitive male, obviously, standing on a firm footing of hard-won experience, all obtained by the expression of deep human feeling...

My personal, more recent, hands-on-hips hero is Robert Plant, erstwhile vocalist of Led Zeppelin, depending on what the status of that group is at the moment. Anyway, there he was, in 1979, onstage at Knebworth, singing “Kashmir” to the gathered throng. It’s time for Jimmy Page’s guitar solo, so Mr. Plant withdraws to the rear, near the drum riser, hands on hips. He stands still, out of the spotlight, surrendering the stage to his male companion. I find this to be very moving, especially in these days of unnecessary rock choreography. Alas, this is a bygone era, and anything more continental, or emotional, or reserved in nature is frowned upon here in the land of pointless confrontation and excess...

With that in mind, I yield to my sisters. Do you think at all about body language, and what effeminacy you may or not be projecting to others? Where do you stand, or, more importantly, HOW do you stand? [/SIZE]

[Sara Jessica]

I love how you often ask what could be a very simple question with such thought and eloquence. I only wish I could answer in the same manner but alas, I only have my POV to draw upon with little relevant scholarly pursuit to back it up (that's what happens when one goes to business school rather than art school ).

Anyway, I think much of gestures and such because I find myself doing less these days to bury them in guy mode. Feet often closer together when standing. Legs often crossed when sitting (and ever so rare that I might catch myself with the legs spread wide in typical guy-ish fashion). Hand gestures, check...they fly about au natural feminine. Oh but the hands on the hips, I get what you are saying and yes, I do put at least one hand there often. Taking it a step further, I find myself "placing" my hand in the location of where the female waistline would be, higher on the hip.

Putting all these things together along with my physical presentation and i'm shocked that no one has called me out on the gender thing.

Add in a couple body motion differences between the genders. How do you bend down to pick something up off the floor? How do you look at the bottom of your shoe? These are a couple things that were demonstrated during a college psychology class I took. The male & female volunteers demonstrated the differences along very marked gender lines.

post-script, Listening to: Travelogue (The Human League) ...

very good choice, I just switched to this on my iTunes!!!

[Cassidy]

Not long ago there was a documentary on one of the History/Discovery cable channels that dealt with body language. As I recall it featured a number of US presidents giving speaches with pauses put in so the body movements could be discussed. As we know certain ones mean thought, sincerity, defense, relaxation, etc.

I spent the better part of 35 years in the financial services industry and interacted with attorneys and accountants and other captains of industry. I'll admit part of my on the job training was understanding and reading the unspoken word. Toward the end of my career I converted the various motions to sport in that whatever motion made during my conversation by the other party I would emulate. For example if that party crossed the arms over the chest I would do the same, if said person clasped both hands behind the head I would do that as well. It is quite taboo now but years ago if the other party lit a cigarette I would do the same. It got to the point that for me it was theatre.

It is sad to say the unspoken words expressed in body language can be more informative than the spoken ones.

Oh by the way I have a picture of me dressed in motorcycle racing leathers taken at a track day with hands on hips.

[bianca66]

I remember as a kid when men used to hold hands which was more of a European thing but you never see that anymore...Then in the 80's came the way straight men should cross their legs...Don't know if it was because it was a mans world until the 1970's and that stuff didn't matter but it seemed that something had changed and rules needed to be set on being male?

[Sophie_C]

I don't know what is right or wrong, but I CLEARLY remember being told that putting my hands on my hips as a child was "like a girl" and that I "should stop it immediately." This was 3rd or 4th grade. I still slip up all the time...

[Barbara Jo]

Actually, the classic "Superman" pose is both hands on the hips.
In fact, this is often refered to as "the superman pose" and it is interpeted as a display of determined strength.

I guess how having both hands on the hips is interpeted is in what contex it is done.
It can be done in either a feminine or masculine fashion.

[Elizabeth Ann]

With that in mind, I yield to my sisters. Do you think at all about body language, and what effeminacy you may or not be projecting to others? Where do you stand, or, more importantly, HOW do you stand?

Frederique, (how do you get those accent symbols?),

Thinking about it, I sometimes use the hands across the chest stance to display skepticism or disagreement. But I am not a very aggressive person, and I think my favorite male stance is with my hands in my pockets. That seems open, relaxed, and accepting. It feels like a version of those stories about hand wave greetings evolving from showing that you are not carrying a weapon: my hands are constrained in my pockets, and I am not a threat.

But more generally, I sometimes wonder at the myriad features of human life that we tag as masculine or feminine. Why is hands on hips feminine? After all, I have seen a lot of Errol Flynn movies with stereotypical male sword fights with hand on hip (presumably also for balance). Aside from the fact that females have wider hips, the only reason I can think of is that we (society, that is) have decided that it is feminine.

Maybe that is enough, and maybe it is obvious to everyone else that most of the concepts of male and female are social constructs. And if that is true, what does it imply about our efforts to adopt feminine clothing and mannerisms? I suppose that it says that even in our rebellion, we are creatures of, and defined by, the society within which we live. Hands on hips has meaning only because of its definition in the social vocabulary. That is real, of course, but in a greater sense, it is not male or female.

I don't know if there are any practical implications of this not very profound insight. If we put hands on our hips and there is no one around to see it, is it still feminine? Perhaps that is some part of the desire by some of us to bring our cross dressing out of the closet and into the open. Hands on hips are not enough. Someone has to see our hands on hips for it to be female.

Why do you ask these questions on a lazy Sunday morning?

Liz

[Sophie86]

I've noticed that my dad often stands with one leg crossed in front of the other, his right hand rubbing the back of his neck, and his left arm folded across the torso with the left hand under the right elbow. It's a stance he must have unconsciously picked up from his mother, because I remember her doing that, particularly the neck rubbing thing. Sometimes he'll put both hands behind the neck, and that's very much like his mom.

I remember noticing when I was a kid that the manly way to sit with legs crossed was with the legs apart, and one ankle resting on the other knee. But then I would see some manly men who nonetheless crossed their legs knee over knee. I remember thinking at the time that being able to sit that way unselfconsciously made them seem that much more comfortable as men.

As for hands on hips, I think it's a generational thing. I think that as homosexuality has come out of the closet, men who are (predominantly) heterosexual have become defensive about their sexuality, and their body language shows it. When I was a kid, I used to walk down the road with my best friend, our arms over each other's shoulder. Then we learned about queers, and that ended that. Because there is nothing more terrifying than to be labeled a queer.

[Lucy_Bella]

Oh jezz, I have had feem traits all through my life..I was born with tight curly hair the women just went nuts over when I was a kid..I had a habit of twirling the curls like a girl would play with her hairal in that fashion. I always stood with my hands on my hips so femme sometimes that my buddies would make comments to me about it. I have made it a forced habit ( with help from my stepfather ) to not cross my leggs when I sit and my posture while sitting down is very femme so I would slosh.. All of these traits most un noticed until I started dressing that came natural...Odd thinking back..

[Christy_M]

Very thought provoking OP...thank you for that but as someone else mentioned "It is a lazy SUnday morning."

Nevertheless, I have only watched body language as it related to my immediate interactions with people. Like some have said, the body language of others speaks louder than the actual words. I can't remember a time when I subplanted a feminine/masculine label on their language but rather looking for tells about sincerity, confrontation, helpfulness, etc. With that said, I am very conscience about sitting in a room with other men and how they cross their legs. I have always thought knee over knee would be very acceptable way to act effeminate without really drawing attention to myself.

As Sara Jessica mentioned, I have probably done more to out myself unconsciously just because it seemed more naturally. When looked at it this way, it probably does more to suggest that some of the things we do are really only unaccepted in our own minds and have no weight on what society thinks. I look at the bottom of my shoe by looking over my opposite shoulder. I typically pick things up by squatting as though I was in a dress...noone has ever called me on those things.

As far as sitting knee over knee - I have never been comfortable doing this. It either crushes the jewels or hurts the underside of my leg. the alternative is to sit with my knees together and my feet separated about 6 to 8 inches.

[LilSissyStevie]

I don't believe there is anything particularly feminine or masculine about standing akimbo (that's what it's called.) I think the reason you don't see men using that stance anymore, although it was common in the past, is because you need a hip shelf to do it. Men are just too fat nowadays to find their hips. Women, even when they are overweight, still have a waist and hips. One stance I catch myself doing all the time that I think is feminine, or effeminate, is when I'm talking to someone, I place my right elbow in the palm of my left hand. There are other “tells” I've worked to eliminate in drab but that one is sticky.

[Marilyn Beck]

Hands on hips while standing doesn't strike me as masculine or feminine. However, walking with hands on hips seems distinctly feminine to me.

This thread reminds me of an incident when I was about 12 years old. A kid in the neighborhood asked me out of the blue to look at my fingernails. I held out my hands, palms facing down, with my fingers outstretched. The kid laughed at me, saying that's how a girl looks at her fingernails. He then demonstrated the correct way for a boy to look at his fingernails: palms facing up with fingers curled back. At the time, I had doubts about my masculinity and assumed he was absolutely right about this.

[DameErrant]

It's simple; Men have their hands in the form of fists when they rest them on their hips, and women have them open, palms flat.

Well, it makes a much sense as any other explanation of arbitrary, culturally determined behavior.

[Kathryn Martin]

[SIZE="2"]Do you think at all about body language, and what effeminacy you may or not be projecting to others? Where do you stand, or, more importantly, HOW do you stand? [/SIZE]

Well, I had to read the post several times before I realized what the questions were. I have, of course, many examples of how I project effeminacy no matter how I am dressed. Yet, I believe that is only part of what you asked for.

I never think about how I move, stand sit unless I am practicing a particular move, for a play or some other performance situation. When I see myself reflected in a mirror, a video, a phone message machine or another persons eye I am feminine, effeminate and stand, move and sound like a woman (albeit with resonant baritone). Usually the reaction vacillates between a smile, quite enjoyment, dude you look, uhmm, like a girl, and finally sometimes contempt. Most of the people that are my circle of life, simply know that it is me. My reaction is always a shrug of my shoulders and generally happiness.

How do I stand? Always with my feet close together, one stand leg, one play leg, feet in front of each other or play leg heel in the arch of the other foot, usually when in thought, my right hand on my left shoulder, chin resting on the right hand and my left hand on my hip, shoulders back. When in conversation, head up, elbows close to the body, lower arms and hands often palm open supporting whatever I have to say. The other stance is right foot or left foot firmly on the ground, the other foot off to the side sometimes just the the toes touching the ground, moving in small movements.

How do I sit? legs closed, to one side by the smallest degree, hands in my lap, resting palm open.

Where do I stand? about one third female of center. Not girly girl, not 1916 nurse in orthopedic block heeled shoes and stern updo that even a bomb wouldn't dislodge.

I smile a lot, not sure where that locates me .....

Kathryn

[Nick2Nikki]

I've never interpreted both hands on the hips as a feminine gesture. To me it signals anger or resentment, especially when coupled with a stern facial expression. You've probably seen the look before, feet shoulder width apart (or wider), shoulders back, hands placed firmly on hips, and an angry expression on the face. This pose makes the body appear very wide; just as a puffer fish makes itself appear larger when threatened, we humans do the same thing. Of course if the facial expression is different, then this pose can mean other things as well. If the facial expression is happy and the hands are on the hips, this can signal bemusement. If the expression is sad, then this coupled with hands on the hips can express disappointment. I suppose that I can more easily see a female using this body language than a male, but that is probably because females tend to display their emotions much more transparently than males in general.

How do I stand? Well, I rarely have both hands on my hips, unless I'm trying to communicate anger or one of the other emotions that I talked about above. My normal neutral stance is both hands (or just the thumbs) placed in my pockets, no facial expression, and both legs fairly close together, but with all of my weight on one leg (I alternate legs as they tire). Hmmm, it seems my stance is similar to your stance described here:

The other, similar, male gesture you see is the thumbs hooked into the pockets of the jeans (or belt loops if you’re more...rural), framing the belt buckle (how big is yours?) and/or package in a transparent display of male potency. I understand. You aren’t someone I can talk to about skirt lengths – have you ever met a fairy before? Gotcha...

Does that mean that I'm not someone who you can talk to about skirt lengths? Well, if you're someone who's going to judge me to be a testosterone fueled gay-bashing narrow-minded jerk just because I hook my thumbs in my pockets, then you bet I don't want to talk to you, regardless of whether you're a crossdresser or the most beautiful woman I've ever seen. And when I display effeminate gestures (such as putting my hands in my back pockets), am I doing it to tell all the "manly men" around me that I'm not one of them? No! I do it because it is part of me, but that doesn't mean that I don't talk to such "manly men." Frankly, I'm surprised how much your post speaks of stereotyping and discriminating against men who carry themselves in a certain way. With a mindset like that, you're displaying a mindset similar to the occasional cashier who remarks "Have a nice day... SIR!" to one of us.

[Kathi Lake]

With me, it's not so much the hands on hips stance. Like Sara, there's more. I have been described as "fluttery" as my hands are more in motion than an Italian girl when speaking. I stand with my feet in classic "model" pose - one foot straight out, the other cocked behind at a 45-degree angle. My legs are open rarely when I sit, and usually single or double-crossed. The most telling mannerism, to me, is the way I walk. I usually catch myself walking with one arm with the forearm parallel to the floor, and my hand dangling limp-wristedly. It is a decidly non-masculine looking way to walk. My opinion? Whatever. I'm kind of sone with the whole dichotomy thing, where I have to look and act one way as a guy and a noter way as a girl. I'm kind of neither. I'm me .I will, therefore, act like me.

Kathi

[Shananigans]

Classic sorority girl pose...One hand on the hip and the other around your sister. I think 90% of my pics with my girlfriends are with us in this pose.

Both hands on the hips seems a little unapproachable. One hand on the hip makes you appear open, confidant, and accentuates your girlish figure.

[dilane]

I'm out running or hiking on trails an hour or two daily, and I see many women put their hands on their hips when they stop for a rest. I think it's easier to catch your breath with your arms supported that way.

I see many more women doing this than men, at least in the outdoor world.

I notice that only women put the thumbs forward when standing arms akimbo (that's a fancy way of saying hands on hips).

[Byanca]

I sometimes walk with my hands on my hip, or waist, if I'm tired. And try to straighten up. This helps with getting elbows and shoulders back, the hip is the natural place to put the hands.

I generally prefer to have elbows tight to the body. Always did. With the rest of the hands more pointing outwards.

Legs I like to stick my hip out if standing and rest the weight here. The other leg moving about some. Often also just with one foot in front of the other, like balancing.

So a little bit different things. Don't think I have set patterns.

[Helen_Highwater]

It aways used to be if you caught your (male) friend standing with one hand on his hip to ask, "Oi, what happened to your roll of carpet?"

[SusieK]

I've never really thought about it deeply before, but isn't the 'traditional' male hands on hips stance symmetrical with both legs straight and shoulder width apart, whereas the female version is with one supporting leg and one 'play' leg as it is referred to in an earlier post? I'm certainly aware of the wider female hip shelf being used for example to support a young child, whereas for most men this would be completely impractical.

Did this thread make anyone else stand up and start playing around with stances to try and see which ones felt comfortable, natural, masculine or feminine?

dilane, you may have a point with the thumbs forward thing. Don't know what it means though

I can see the asymmetric version being effective for a woman being stern and telling someone off, whereas for a man it would be taken less seriously (just going with the stereotypes and saying how it is, I don't make the rules)

Susie

[PuniPuni]

I'd forgotten I had hips until I saw this thread! I don't think I've ever known anyone, male or female, who does that. We kids all seem to just cross our arms these days. =P

[busker]

Well, I might be incorrect remembering Wayne very often walked one hand on hip--"well, pardner? and I certain of having seen a photo of JFK, one hand on hip. Could be a 40- 50's thing!
Though I don't remember my father doing the hands on hip routine, he was born just before the First World War and men were different in so many ways. I have had one hand on hip but that hip was inward and the hand for balance, but I'm also certain that I probably saw it before I used it . If I ever had two hands on hips, it would have been more confrontational though I'm generally not that way.
I' m a war baby, so I think a lot of influence came from movies and it could be that the general population was more exposed to "feminine" gestures both from women and from gay actors (of course, we didn't know they were gay). I have mostly always sat in a chair with my legs crossed knee over knee and only sometimes when my legs are stretched out do I cross at the ankles. Crossing your legs ankle over ankle relieves the pressure on your lower back so it is a good thing. As for crushing the "package" mine is succinct enough not to be crushed. Often times when I am in skirt mode, I find myself legs wide open, especially when I'm concentrating on something and the S-word is often out of my lips when I catch myself.
Getting rid of some male habits is just tough.
The problem with what to do with hands is a long standing one and if you look, for example, at books on photographing people, it is always a concern what to do with hands. Of course, studying the great portrait photographers, one has a ready teacher. Fortunately, for us, most of the really interesting photos are of women, so we will get a good lesson in presentation. William Mortenson (How to pose the Model (1956) spends quite a lot of time going over errors in posing with hands, legs and feet. One could hardly go wrong basing their "display" on his work. Over all, I think that a lot of gestures are generational and what is accepted now was certainly not when I grew up.

[Byanca]

With skirt I cross my legs while sitting(especially with something short). With pants with knees together.

[Sophie86]

The more I think about it, the more I think that the hands on hips thing is wrong. Certainly, walking with both hands on the hips, elbows swinging, is totally female, but just standing around bored or pissed off with hands on hips is a male stance. Even resting one hand on hip is something that I've seen masculine guys do. Thumbs forward would be very rare, but it's a stance I've seen men use in older movies. Fingers forward or knuckles pressed into hips is more usual.