Holier than thou attitude going on right now...

[Shananigans]

But borrowing without asking is usually considered stealing... and stealing can very easily be perceived as wrong by the majority of people.

I didn't think the OP was saying go out and steal the clothes. You could borrow and return...which, I agree isn't really that great because A) I wouldn't like someone borrowing my clothes without permission and B) I might be looking for something that you were still borrowing and C) I may wonder why my clothes are stretched or fit differently.

Also, I have let my SO borrow quite a few of my clothes...which, turned out to be me giving him the clothes because he can't afford to spend a lot of money right now and just giving the clothes to him was a lot easier when we no longer were able to live together (school reasons).

But, I mean, when he first started out...what else could he do? He was broke. He didn't have any other female friends or relative to borrow from...so, I mean where is the harm in that case?

[Engendered]

Borrowing clothes when the person doesn't know you're doing it, is a very dodgy area. It's either that or nothing for quite a few CDs, but it's hardly ideal. I'm glad I don't have to worry about that sort of thing, as I've now amassed enough clothes to feed a small CDing army. >_<

[CharleneCD]

Heres a question, is there anyone here who's first article of womens clothing they tried on not borrowed?

[GaleWarning]

Linguistally, one has to be careful ... some claim that their sister/aunt/SO asked to dress them up ... are the clothes, then, borrowed?

But I do understand the point you are trying to make, Charleen.

[JulieC]

Maybe some people need to borrow clothes in order to satisfy their need to cd because they don't have the confidence to go and buy their own,

But do have the confidence to steal someone else's clothing?

Let's reality check this:
1) Steal the clothes of a person you don't know. You risk; chance of discovery by that person, arrest by officers of the law, and discovery by people whom you do know by way of discovering your stash.

2) Steal the clothes of a person you do know. You risk; discovery by the person you stole from. If you're borrowing, you risk damaging their clothes possibly irreparably.

3) Buy your own clothes. You risk; the negative opinions of people you don't know and shouldn't care two peanuts about. Chance of discovery of someone you know finding your stash.

Yes, it can be a bit daunting going to buy your own things, especially the first couple of times. But as soooooo many people have said here, nobody cares what you're buying, and if they do care so what? Are you so unsure of yourself that you're willing to vest your sense of worth in the opinions of people whom you do not know? And in refusing to buy your own things you're willing to risk a far greater chance of discovery by people whom you DO know?

That just doesn't make sense.

I am sure I am not the only person who hates coming on this site and reading that I am a terrible person for borrowing clothes without permission

You're not a terrible person, but yes you should go and buy your own things.

Is it lonely up there on your pedestal?

Not at all. There's lots of us up here. You can join us!

[ShellyMadison78]

Growing up, everything I wore I borrowed. How many times have you seen pre adolescent and up to high school aged boys running around a department store looking for that sweater dress/leggings/flats or hip huggers/halter top/flip flops combo and pretty bras and knickers?
I borrowed up until I left the house for the military, when I came back and got settled down with my own job I bought my own stuff.....and then purge......and then bought.....etc.
Since my last purge I haven't been able to buy much so I borrow clothes that my wife no longer fits into and has long since forgotten......hey she "borrows" my clothes all the time!

[tanyalynn51]

Ooh... I can see it now, Tamara the meany has posted... and what she going to say you're all wondering

Just wanted to say Charlotte, I totally agree, good rant

Ooh and I forgot.. Karren, totally agree about jeans!! horrible things lol!!!

Tamara, I think your reputation for being mean is greatly exaggerated (although hey, as I know from work, the reputation does have its uses). Charlotte, Ill be the first person to admit, when I saw the title, I figured someone else was starting another thread of problems. Turns out I was right, but I love it. Every once in a while, we need to get kicked in our complacency, as a friend of mine used to say. You go girl!!!

[ReineD]

I am noticing a real attitude on this forum at the moment saying "don't do this, don't do that" and "oh just admit it to people"

It's human nature for people to speak from personal experience. If they've been closeted in the past and it caused them distress, you can't blame them for wanting to share their experiences with others. It is up to you as to whether or not you are ready to follow their advice.

I admit some people (not all) do sound as if they are condemming others. This could just be the way a post sounds and not what is really meant. It's hard to convey actual meaning online in a post, without hearing someone's tone of voice or seeing their body language. In other words, you could be reading condemnation without it actually being there.

But, it would be nice for members who have crossed thresholds to remember they were not always where they're at now, and be mindful when wording their posts of others who aren't quite as far into the self-exploration process. If you do run into someone with a wholier-than-thou attitude, you can just ignore them and know in your heart that you are doing the best you can with the tools that you have.

Don't take it so personally!

I am only 22. It will take years and a lot more acceptance before people are easily accepted.

I am sure I am not the only person who hates coming on this site and reading that I am a terrible person for borrowing clothes without permission and that I should just man up (girl up?) and tell people.

At 22, or even 62, it is your business if you do not wish to out yourself to the world. But, you are old enough to get your own clothes. Borrowing stuff without others knowing is understandable for kids who don't have an adult's resources. But at your age, you should understand something about personal boundaries.

There are ways to get your own stuff without outing yourself and without it being all that expensive. There've been lots of threads about this.

[sterling12]

As usual Reine expresses it well. We can't make you do, or not do anything! No matter what we write. If you feel "guilty" or bothered by something that someone wrote, then you need to examine yourself, not The Writer. What you may perceive as a "Holier Than Thou Attitude" is a personal philosophy that's subject to change. People express opinions and sometimes change them. People listen to Opinions and sometimes change their own thoughts.

So, would you have us not write about anything but superficial "Rose Colored Glasses" kinds of Replies: "Oh, it will all get better! We got your Back Girlfriend!" Puhleeze....it wouldn't be long before everyone on here collectively decided to seek enlightenment somewhere else, and no more Crossdresser's Forum. We allow Diversity around here, and it's for good reason. It's makes things enjoyable, enlightening, and INTERESTING. Many times someone has written something, that I don't agree with....so what! I'm sure there's plenty of gibberish, foolish, unthoughtful, things that I've written that others don't care for.

That's what makes The World go Round!

Peace and Love, Joanie

[Nigella]

One thing this forum does not do is permit one member to ridicule another for their choices. One thing this forum does do, is permit each and every member to have a contribution to the forum, within the rules that is

How each member chooses to interpret each post/thread can only be determined by that member. Sometimes our own personal circumstances can dictate if a thread is either obnoxious to us or acceptable.

[CharlotteCD]

Just in case anybody mis-understood anything in my earlier post:

I do NOT condone stealing in any way.

I like hearing other peoples views.




RE: But, you are old enough to get your own clothes. Borrowing stuff without others knowing is understandable for kids who don't have an adult's resources. But at your age, you should understand something about personal boundaries.

There are ways to get your own stuff without outing yourself and without it being all that expensive. There've been lots of threads about this.

^^ That is the kind of response I am talking about ^^

1) Yes, I am 22. I also live with my parents and 2 siblings, and when post that comes to the house addressed with my first initial, it could be for 1 of 3 people.
2) I don't have the confidence to go to a shop and go shopping myself.
3) Apparently there are lots of threads discussing how to get clothes. Well here is the latest one http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/...my-own-clothes and what does it say? Thrift shops, internet, general shops. Hmm, all of those options are out!!
4) I have ongoing illness which causes me to be suddenly rushed to hospital without warning, a member of my family will organise me some belongings for my hospital stay. What if my post arrives and they brought it to the hospital - I cannot open it there. What if they are looking for something in my room and found the clothing stash people suggest I should have?
5) "At your age you should understand" Well, if ever there was a Teacher to the Student attitude! I do understand, as explained above, I have no way around borrowing.

Checkmate.

I like this forum, I find the debate and differing opinions very interesting, that is why I keep coming back. Simple fact is, some posters don't take into account the situation others might be in.

It is nice to see others agree with me. Even if you don't agree, I think this thread will be useful for others in my situation.

[eluuzion]

**Click click click…”Attention Shoppers!” click click… “Attention Shoppers!”**

We are holding a special event here today at “Dressers Crossing Mall”!!


What: “Queen for a Day” tournament

Where: the “Lounge” at “Dressers Crossing Mall”.

When: 8pm MST

Who: All current crossdressers are eligible

Format: Standard one-on-one, top of table arm- wrestling. Single round elimination, winner advances to next bracket, until one contestant is left undefeated and declared the champion.

Purpose: Establish an organized procedure for determining who is “right” or “wrong” for all posts and debatable issues raised each day on the forum.

1st Prize: The “champion” will be crowned “Queen for a Day” and be designated so with the presentation of a gold tiara and solid gold sequined baton, which will be on display in a glass case at the entrance of the lounge. The champion will be assigned one specific day where they have the ultimate power of deciding who or what is “right” or “wrong” in all unresolved issues, catfights and sandbox scuffles that occur on the forum on their assigned date.

2nd Prize: There is no second prize. All contestants losing their match will be eliminated from the competition and be considered “losers”.

Donations: This will be a charity event with all donations distributed to the residents of “The CD Shelter for Dress-less Gurls”. All contestants are encouraged to donate their “gently used” articles of female clothing, jewelry, shoes, soap boxes and pedestals. (Please note we are unable to accept any heels under 4” tall.)

“BREAKING NEWS”…

The chairwoman and sponsor of this event has suffered a sudden and devastating personal crisis this morning. Her SO discovered her rummaging through her closet looking for items to “borrow”, which infuriated her unsuspecting SO, who immediately sent our sponsor to her room for the duration of the weekend.

Due to this unfortunate development…It is with great regret that we are forced to announce…

“This event has been cancelled!” we repeat…
“This event has been cancelled”.

As it turns out, I did not have the authority or permission to organize the tournament in the first place. I am just a member, not an officer with power to make any decisions about this forum, or decide who is “right” or “wrong” about anything anybody chooses to do or not do in their personal lives.

I guess everybody still has the freedom to express their own views on any topic, with the understanding that doing so on an internet forum invites replies from other members… who are also free to express differences of opinion. (The “key” word being “opinion”…which is just that although it may sometimes be presented as “fact”).

Anyway, we are still accepting donations…and it is FRIDAY…and the Lounge is OPEN. It is still a great day after all!!

So, put on a dress and get out there and make us proud!

Carry on citizens…

[Cait]

I agree with the OP. I think its good that there is a network of support in place on this forum and its positive that those who require support can log on and find many a sympathetic ear to whom they expound upon their problems, this is brilliant and is probably why this place is as popular within the crossdressing community as it is.

However, there does seem to be a suprising number of people on this forum that fail to realise that not everybody is in the same situation as themselves and that others may have constraints placed upon them that prohibit them from acting as freely as they would wish.

Given that the crossdressing community is apparently one that strives for acceptance, support and equality I'm genuinely suprised by the level of ignorance some members demonstrate when they seem to feel the need to ram their own value system down the necks of others and admonish them for supposed infringements (be they; style of dress, still being in the closet, etc.) upon some mythical crossdressing 'code' that everyone is supposed to be familiar with.

All the above having been said, I think that this community is on the whole supporting, but I maintain that a bit of introspection and awareness of the differences of others would not go amiss for some users.

Edit: I apologise of this post annoys anyone, that is not my intention, I'm merely offering my opinion on the subject. I should add that I don't condone stealing either.

[Danni Bear]

Heres a question, is there anyone here who's first article of womens clothing they tried on not borrowed?

Charlene,

I may be the only one on here at present. My Grandmother bought me all my Girlie clothes starting at age 5. This was before I ever tried on any girls clothes but I did play with them all the time. It happened because of a holloween costume costume from way back in the 50's.

Danni

[KarenS]

I'm with you CharlotteCD. There are many that simply can't do some of the things recommended. Unless a person is in the situation, they simply don't know what the circumstances or the pressures are.

[Fab Karen]

Choosing to stay stuck is your choice. If you mention to whoever's clothes you borrowed that you did so without permission, you might learn something. Some of us got tired of being sick & tired of being "stuck", and moved forward.

[VeronicaMoonlit]

Maybe some people can't admit it - everybody has reasons. Maybe they would get kicked out of their home,

There's no such thing as can't. There is such a thing as unreasonable fear. Let me tell you, when I was young I thought that "Bad Things Would Happen If My Family Found Out". I was afraid of what my own family would do. But I was wrong, because I doubted my family's love for me. and it made them sad that I had judged them in that way.

maybe they could lose their job. Something they do as a hobby isn't worth ruining their life.

Ham radio is a hobby, model trains are a hobby, playing video games is a hobby, but "This Thing of Ours of Varying Kinds" isn't a hobby because it's very much tied into our identity that true hobbies are not.

Maybe some people need to borrow clothes in order to satisfy their need to cd because they don't have the confidence to go and buy their own, or they fear ordering clothes in case the parcel goes to a family member.

I'm willing to give young folks a break on this, I remember how it was when I was young. And I admit to having shoplifted a couple of times as a young adult, but it was wrong. I had let fear rule me. I should have, to use the vernacular, put on my big girl panties. Kids have few options, but adults have many options. such as renting a mailbox to receive deliveries.

I just read in another thread "its not helping the image of crossdressers"

It isn't.

Get over yourself, the image of a cd won't change for anybody born in my generation and I am only 22. It will take years and a lot more acceptance before people are easily accepted.

So pessimistic and negative at 22. I'm old enough to have seen changes myself. And in fact, I've seen 50 year old crossdressers with that said pretty much what you did, and they're wrong.

I am sure I am not the only person who hates coming on this site and reading that I am a terrible person for borrowing clothes without permission

You're not a terrible person, but you shouldn't do it, you're an adult, you have options.

and that I should just man up (girl up?) and tell people.

I consider it a good idea to tell ones loved ones, and sooner is better than later.

Is it lonely up there on your pedestal?

Yes it is, but I've been around the block, as it were. Been involved in various online trans-communities since 1999, so frankly, I've seen it all before. There isn't much here that I didn't see on USENET a decade ago.

Veronica

[Lucy_Bella]

I am sure I am not the only person who hates coming on this site and reading that I am a terrible person for borrowing clothes without permission and that I should just man up (girl up?) and tell people.

Not sure if this applies to the same Thread in question , but the OP did ask if it was wrong..Want us to lie? It is wrong borrowing things without asking .. Maybe some folks add a little too much in saying why it's wrong ,if it isn't wrong I'll have your car back sometime next week ..k

[Claire Cook]

I am sure I am not the only person who hates coming on this site and reading that I am a terrible person for borrowing clothes without permission and that I should just man up (girl up?) and tell people.

Situation isn't right to change either of those things right now.

Is it lonely up there on your pedestal?

I sure hope that this isn't a "holier than thou" situation. We're here to vent, to voice our fears and problems, ask for help and offer advice if we can. The latter not from a pedestal, but maybe from experience. What works for one may not work for another. From my own experience, the worst part has been the guilt and shame, and the way I found to deal with it is to say "OK, I crossdress". And yes, at least for me, "girling up" and telling people has removed a lot of the guilt and shame and made CD'ing easier. But as I said, that may not work for others.

[Christy_M]

I will abstain from comment except that I want a tiara and I think it is cruel to offer one and then cancel the event...my preference is silver, though, not gold. Oh, Oh, Oh, and with pretty jewels in it...

[Chickhe]

Part of growning up is recognizing your past mistakes and passing on the wisdom. It is wrong to borrow others clothing without their permission. If you do it, you will feel guilty and secondly, if caught you will be treated as such. However, go get your won clothing and you can feel proud that you had the courage to do it and that you did nothing wrong by wearing them.

[Shelly67]

Yawn.

[Satrana]

Diversity is the spice of life. If you don't agree with someone's opinion then state your own.

The only real "danger" here is when a certain point of view becomes dominant and the members who believe in it then jump all over those with another POV. Then you can get a form of bullying which is not helpful to the health of the forum. The solution to bullying is not to back down with your tail between your legs but to fight back and not be intimidated. After all only you know the personal circumstances of your life and only you can decide what is the best course of action. So state your case and no doubt your thoughts will resonate with others and they will be encouraged to state their POV.

[Angela Rose]

Since I have been reading a lot of the posts on this forum, I have come to the conclusion that a lot of CD's are,in MY humble opinion, very disturbed people. I could elaborate but so many CD's are in denial that they would just think that any comments made wouldn't apply to them.

[Tracy X Cruz]

Heres a question, is there anyone here who's first article of womens clothing they tried on not borrowed?

For me, I first expressed interest in shoes, which I could not borrow even if I wanted to ^^; size 15 womens... so me and my girlfriend went shopping and I found a pair. My first actual piece of clothing was again with my GF out at goodwill and was a skirt ^^ Wasn't til after I had my own skirt that my GF "gave" me some old blouses that she didn't want that fit me.