Is there a protocol for voice when en femme?

[Christy_M]

So I think I scared a guy tongiht at a bar when he made a comment about something and I responded in my deep manly voice.

As I posted in another thread, I was at a bar en femme and as I was trying to draw the attention of the bartender to order another beer, someone a few seats away said "I don't think he wants to get you another beer, ha ha"

I said in my normal male voice "I know, right - how long should I wait." He was visibly surprised by my voice so it got me wondering, shold I be trying to use a higher voice when en femme? I have a voice that I used to use when I was younger but I just don't know the protocol in a gay bar if that is either appropriate or necessary. Does anyone have the rule book on this? Is this a 15 yard personal foul or just the 5 yard incidental penalty?

[rocktheplank]

I've never been to a gay bar, but I decided a while ago to not even try a femme voice, my voice is a deep manly voice, so I don't even bother trying to make it sound femme, just comes out sounding weird to me...

[Eva_nine]

you really dont have to alter the pitch too much and you can still "pass"

speak as though you are always questioning or for lack of a better word, speak as the subordinate. speak like you would to a boss, or the dean of your college or a childs principle or a police officer. allow your conversing partner to take the dominant role in the conversation.

speak softer and add a little extra air so "s" and "f" and a few of the other soft consanants see more emphasis.

and if you want to raise your pitch,try this: make an "aah" sound almost as though you are singing and slowly raise the pitch until you have to switch to your falsetto (no resonance in your chest, falsetto is often what is used by men trying to sound funny while imitating women, or as an example in the weezer song hash pipe rivers uses alot of falsetto) once you find your falsetto drop down to your regular voice and drop it down 4-5 semitones/notes and that should be about where your female voice is.

[carhill2mn]

There are many GWs with low voices yet most would not be mistaken for a man when they speak. Women speak differently; they speak from "higher up" (not necessarily a higher pitch but usually - not falsetto, though); their voices do not resonate; they use different words/phrases; they smile and use a few more hand gestures as well as facial expressions; the tone is usually softer.
There are videos available to try. Listen closely to how women talk and then practice amulating them as best that you can.

[Starr]

That is the way i work it when i am in fem.. i talk in a softer voice.. and use more words in then needed...lol but listen to women..a guy would same something like "that is pretty" a Woman will go over on it.. like" Oh! isn't that the prettiest thing you ever saw, just look at it" also will include hands jesters while saying it.. i may be going a little over but i am trying to make a point and i hope everyone gets it.

starr

[StaceyJane]

I've bought a cd once on developing a feminine voice. I have been working on raising the pitch. I seem to be doing okay.
You could just pretend you have a cold.

[Alberta_Pat]

Personally, I think it all depends on whether you are trying to BE a woman, or a man dressed in womens clothes.

My voice is baritone, and I make little effort to change it when dressed. In a TG facility, you will be treated according to your appearance, not your voice. So, if you are dressed as a woman, you will be treated as such, even if you speak like "Satchmo".

[Kate Simmons]

Not really. If you are a regular "Chatty Cathy" it doesn't matter much. Women love to talk ya know.

[JohnH]

you really dont have to alter the pitch too much and you can still "pass"
speak softer and add a little extra air so "s" and "f" and a few of the other soft consanants see more emphasis.

I have given this topic some thought, and when I am en femme, I would like to give the impression of a "male lady".
I would keep my voice pitch the same as normal as a bass, but speak softer and add a little extra air so "s" and "f" and a few of the other soft consonants. Also I would vary my voice pitch more just as a GG would do. I would strive to smile and use the same gestures as a GG would.

[dilane]

Yes, there is a protocol ...

If you've got it, use it!

If you go out and don't really have it, use it anyway, it gets better. It is a really big deal if you want acceptance, imo.

[Stephenie S]

We have talked this to death in the past, but it is an important topic to some.

Sounding like a woman has little to do with pitch, as some have already said in this thread. There are plenty of women, myself included, who speak with an alto voice. Re-read Starr's post. She may not realize it, but she is completely correct. There is a female way of speaking. You could call it an "accent" perhaps.

A guy will say, "I'm goin' t' the store."

A woman will say, "I think I would like to go to the store."

Women use hand gestures. A LOT. Talk with your hands.

Get you voice OUT of your chest. Use your head and mouth for resonance instead of your chest. Try to be more musical when you talk. Men use volume for emphasis. Women use a high voice for emphasis. Change your pitch INSIDE a word. "Hell-o" Go up or down in the middle of that word. It doesn't matter which. Go both ways.

LISTEN to women. Listen. Don't worry about how you sound. No one but you knows how you sound as a guy. Women talk funny. You have to be willing to sound funny to yourself at first. You'll get used to it. But if you shut down the first time you think you sound funny, you'll never get it.

Talking like a woman is ONLY a matter of practice. It's free. Compare that to the money you spend on other parts of your presentation. Don't be discouraged at first. Can you learn to play the piano over night? Can you learn a foreign language overnight? No, you cannot. But you CAN do both. It just takes time and practice. You'll sound funny the first time you try to play the piano. If you quit then, that's as far as you'll get. Learning to sound like a woman is just the same.

S

[Julogden]

Speaking of all of us MTF'ers of various types, we go to great pains to emulate females, so why would one not work to develop a feminine voice? I don't get why someone who is trying their best to look as girly as possible would talk in a masculine manner. It totally destroys the feminine image that we work so hard to perfect.

Carol

[LitaKelley]

I try to talk softer.. I'm trying to sound feminine.. still need more practice, but for now, talking softer works

[rocktheplank]

This thread has really given me something to think about. I guess its not just the sound, but its the words that are used too. Im going to try some of these out

[Loni]

yes a female voice is more than just how it sounds, and the male and female voices are just 1/2 octave from each other.
not just pitch, but add a bit more air to the words and lengthen the words kinda like singing use many different tones when talking.
remember the line from a old move "the rain in spain, falls mostly in the plane" speak up the words like you are reading to a little kid and trying to over do the words making it really interesting and exaggerated. it will give you a starting point to find were YOUR voice should be. each of us is different here.
and yes it will take time some of us a couple years but it is there for most all people even when working f to m.

i have been taking a voice class and hope to continue it for next year. it takes work and a good voice recorder to here how it sounds out side of you.

[donnalee]

There are many GWs with low voices yet most would not be mistaken for a man when they speak. Women speak differently; they speak from "higher up" (not necessarily a higher pitch but usually - not falsetto, though); their voices do not resonate; they use different words/phrases; they smile and use a few more hand gestures as well as facial expressions; the tone is usually softer.
There are videos available to try. Listen closely to how women talk and then practice amulating them as best that you can.

OMG! You mean I've been doing my MALE voice wrong for all these years?!

[t-girlxsophie]

I dont go to any lengths to try and talk like a GG,I could probably only manage it for a few secondsI would say that I maybe express myself in a different way when Dressed,I feel personally that ppl wont suddenly accept me or change their opinion of me if I speak like a girl,but thats just for me,I totally respect anyone who attempts to alter their voice and hope they succeed

Sophie

[charlotte_sp]

He was visibly surprised by my voice so it got me wondering, shold I be trying to use a higher voice when en femme? I have a voice that I used to use when I was younger but I just don't know the protocol in a gay bar if that is either appropriate or necessary. Does anyone have the rule book on this? Is this a 15 yard personal foul or just the 5 yard incidental penalty?

Any way you choose to speak is appropriate. It is not necessary for you to use a voice that makes them more comfortable with your gender identity. In a gay bar especially, people should know better than to give you trouble for it (though obviously sometimes they don't).

A guy will say, "I'm goin' t' the store."

A woman will say, "I think I would like to go to the store."

These kinds of stereotypes really bother me. There is something unavoidable about sexually dimorphic traits like facial hair. Speech patterns are not anything innate, and this example in particular reinforces the internalized sexist trope that women should not be confident in their decision-making.

People will probably respond more favorably if you feed them the stereotype, but there's no reason you should feel pressured to if you don't want to.

Speaking of all of us MTF'ers of various types, we go to great pains to emulate females, so why would one not work to develop a feminine voice? I don't get why someone who is trying their best to look as girly as possible would talk in a masculine manner. It totally destroys the feminine image that we work so hard to perfect.

Christy seems comfortable using a deep voice. Why should she change it?

[Julogden]

Christy seems comfortable using a deep voice. Why should she change it?

Christy asked for opinions, so I gave mine.

If feminine clothing, hair and makeup are all that matters to her, then it doesn't matter how she speaks.

Regarding stereotyping speech patterns, there are indeed definite differences in word choice and speech patterns between the average man and average woman, not necessarily innate, but they are culturally accepted and widespread, so if one is trying to pass as the opposite sex, it can help to adopt those stereotypical speech patterns if you're trying to blend in. If one is not trying to blend in, then it doesn't matter if one's speech pattern is incongruent with one's appearance.

Carol

[GirlieAmanda]

Easy there girls. This voice thing is definitely a lightning rod for some. For me, I have not been out that much. In fact this Halloween was the first time really in 10 years. I was dressed up and looked as good as I could. Pretty much as you see me in my avatar. However it was a "Halloween costume" at least to everyone but my friend Michelle. I chose to speak in a guy voice even though I think I have a decent girl voice. I have only tested this voice on a couple of people though. I definitely jarred some people when I spoke in guy on Haloween. I kind of took it as a compliment though. It means they were totally expecting a girl voice and were jarred when it was not. All of the things I do for a girl voice are listed here already. Great advice. Pitch just under falsetto, Softer, S's, gestures, sing song. But, the thing I realized is I had to dial it back to sound better. More realistic. As for protocol. I don't think there really is any. Just do what you feel is right for you.

[Christy_M]

Thank you all for the comments and opinions. As I don't go out often enough to say what is or isn't comfortable, I haven't really formed a "presence" that I am aiming for other than both self acceptance and inner peace. I am not real sure voice will play into that yet but at some point it might.

The reason I ask about protocol is I don't want to misrepresent the CD/TG community by doing some oafish thing like pull one of my forms out at the table to talk about size. If I should be trying to use a feminine voice, then I will work harder at it. If it doesn't matter then I will gradually learn by watching what others like me do. I want so much for people to be apathetic about me being in a dress. If trying to sound different gets that, then by cracky that's where I am heading.

I really feel blessed to have all the experience from the people on this forum to help me as I continue my journey. No sarcasm or passive agressive shots, just genuine appreciation for everyone's input.

Hugs,
Christy

[tamarav]

[SIZE=4]I have written the following on similar posts but I'll give it another shot.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4][/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]I work dressed, everyday. I interact with women all day. I speak a little softer than my male voice and just let it go.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4][/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]What I have noticed about my fellow sisters is that they try way too hard. I hear falsetto voices that no one really has, attempts at squeeky voices and the deep sexy voice. To me they all sound "off". If when you speak you simply use less air and speak softer, it seems that a fairly reasonable voice comes out.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4][/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]Another thing I notice is that people get used to whatever voice you have very quickly. Additionally, many women have voices that could easily be mistaken for male. I have had a number of occasions where I had to think for a second or two about whether I was working on a man or a woman because of the voice.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4][/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]I think the best bet is to practice using a recorder so that you can actually hear how your voice sounds, not the echo voice you hear when you speak. [/SIZE]

[Rachel Morley]

In a TG facility, you will be treated according to your appearance, not your voice. So, if you are dressed as a woman, you will be treated as such, even if you speak like "Satchmo".

I agree with this comment as this is what I have noticed. In an LGBT bar no matter what you sound like people will always treat you like a lady if you look and act like one.

In my own case, people have told me that my voice is not "that" manly in the first place and that with a little work "it would be there." .... well, I think they're just being nice, as my wife thinks the complete opposite she thinks my girl voice sounds like a stereotypically feminine gay man. Oh well ...

[Danni Bear]

The reason I ask about protocol is I don't want to misrepresent the CD/TG community by doing some oafish thing like pull one of my forms out at the table to talk about size.

That would definately get the conversation started.

Danni