Opinions on Dating a CD

[WsprsOnTheWind]

Responses from all are welcome. Not just gg's.

I have dated a CD the past 18 months. He made it clear from the first contact that he was CD and wanted someone to accept him and love him for who he is, which I did. I asked three things of him during our relationship.

1. That we go to counseling so that we could learn to communicate as healthy couple. Not b/c he is a CD but b/c he was recently divorced.
2. That he not speak with 2 of his female friends any longer. 1 of which was married and I felt it wrong to be deceiving her partner and the other b/c he had revealed intimate details of our relationship and made me uncomfortable.
3. That he set boundaries with his ex wife so that she did not always control his schedule so that he wasn't always having to break plans with me at the last minute to keep his son. I asked him to please explain to her that she needed to let him know in advance of schedule changes and have a backup plan/babysitter for when she did have to change the schedule on a whim.

He denied all three of these requests so after the last abrupt schedule change at the last minute, I ended things. I didn't end things on a whim but this is the nut shell version of why. This has all been happening over the course of time that we dated. He has either had to leave my house b/c his ex would call up and say she had to go here or there. His comment was "we weren't doing anything important so what's the big deal". The big deal is that our time is our time no matter what we are doing and he should have enough backbone to not cater to his ex-wife or he needs to go back to her.

I was excluded from b/c his family or ex would never accept anyone he dated. Times that he has taken time from me to go and work at his dad's house on things that could have waited until another time, etc. I could go on and on, but I feel you get the picture.

My question to the women that date CD's ,or any man, is how would you feel if a man told you that you must accept him and love him for who he is but refused to work with you on things that you needed him to do and accept for you?

Would this turn you against dating a CD again? I am trying to stay objective and tell myself that CD's are all different. However, there is a part of me that is so turned off by the thought of ever dating another CD. Right now, I couldn't even phantom the idea of it. I still am very accepting of those who are CD's. I just don't know that I can ever date another one. Once bitten, twice shy!

[Amy Lynn3]

The simple answer from me would be...you treat a CD just like you would a non cder. Two standards do not apply here, if your cder is not fully into your relationship and not dropped the ex, then drop the cder. You must look after yourself first. That advise applies to all people, not just gg's, men or cders.

[WsprsOnTheWind]

I just found it hypocritical that he expected unconditional acceptance of his CD but was not willing to meet any requests that I asked of him.

[minalost]

A dumb a** is a dumb a**, crossdresser or not. Just don't assume all crossdressers are as flakey as this guy sounds!

[WsprsOnTheWind]

Thank you. This has been a long time coming and was difficult. I do love this man but I will never love anyone enough to be treated wrongly again. He was all about pushing me to open up to him and discuss things with him until I actually started letting my guard down and telling him how I felt. Then he wanted no part of it. He went to approximately 3 to 5 counseling sessions and refused to go back. I pretty much knew then that things were doomed. Ironically, he was willing to go to several different counselors when he was married. I guess our relationship just wasn't important enough to try to save as it was with a woman that "he said" treated him like shi*.

As a previous poster said, I have to look after me.

It was also hurtful for him to brag about all the women he's been with. He would tell me that there was no point in being with someone that couldn't do everything he wanted b/c it was too easy for him to get women. I heard about all his conquests from high school til he married and then from the time he divorced until he met me. He is more about quantity than quality. That got painfully old after a while. No woman wants to hear about all the women her bf has been with. Don't brag to me about all the notches in your bed post then try to convince me that you are "making love" to me.

[giuseppina]

Hello WsprsOnTheWInd,

On the information you've provided, you are justified in breaking things off. I would not accept that sort of thing from a prospective spouse.

While crossdressing is a convenient scapegoat for marriage breakdown, there are usually other reasons beneath the surface. It seems to me his previous marriage failed for reasons other than crossdressing.

Please don't let this clown sour you on us. His behavior has nothing to do with the fact he is a crossdresser. There are plenty of us around who abhor the treatment you've been given.

[WsprsOnTheWind]

Thank you for your support Giuseppina. I am sure there are other reasons the marriage ended.

I guess the way it all has come down is so different than when we first started dating. I told him for months that I didn't think I could be what he wanted me to be as far as the CD goes and the fact that he didn't like me having my dogs in the house. He would tell me that it was okay and compromises could be made as long as I accepted and loved him. Then in the last few months he has made the comments that if I can't fully particpate then it's too easy for him to find women that will. Now, CD or not, IMO I would rather have someone love me and accept me for who I am , and participate to their level of comfort, than to try to find someone that is going to be everything I want them to be. Lets face it, we're never going to find someone that gives us everything we want in a relationship. It just seems that he did an about face from all the things he told me in the beginning.

He also told me that he was married 27 years and didn't get to dress the way he wanted too and that if I didn't have the routine down after a year then I probably never would and he wasn't waiting another 27 years. Now, I am from the Bible Belt and some of you all know about the strict religious, conservative up bringing that most of us here get. I am one of those people. I was introduced to a totally new lifestyle, accepted it, embraced it, studied it, talked to him and others excessively about it and he expected me to have it all down in a year. Yet, over and over I was told how I was the selfish one.

[WsprsOnTheWind]

I was just informed in a PM that my message seemed to be sent out to gg's only. I welcome all responses not just from ggs. Sorry for the confusion and misunderstanding. I did edit that in the original post. Blonde moment! lol

Ah, who am I kidding....I have a blonde LIFE! lol

[Karren H]

I've been married for 34 years and I think being in a relationship is a partnership where both have to work together towards a goal.... Each respecting each others wishes and resolving issues where conflicts arrise.... I think you were right ending it.... A bad realtionship is a bad relationship no mater what clothing each party likes to wear.... Mine has had some rocky times but we worked our way through them....

and I learned a long time ago.... When the answer doesn't equal her answer.... the answer equals her answer... lol

[WsprsOnTheWind]

Karren, I LOVE your quote about sarcasm. That sounds so like something I would say. I'm going to use that. lol

He has no intention of hearing what I have to say and taking my concerns seriously. He minimized my feelings and invalidated them and always turned it back around on me. The more I think about it the more I realize it was all about him. He never respected me or loved me. I had to accept his lifestyle; had to agree to live in the town he does b/c he was unwilling to move and had to agree to put my dogs outside (they've been in the house with me for years). I had to do all the changing and he refused me everything I asked of him. He made life hell for me about my dogs yet his son has a rabbit in the house. He wanted no part of a professional counselor's opinion yet he fought tooth and nail to remain friends with a Xanax addict who was planning to marry a man from the Netherlands that she's never met. Yes, that's someone that I would want to confide in and take advice from...NOT!

He would list out everything that he's done for me. He would get mad at me b/c I wasn't willing to drive an hour to and from work every day then half way back to work in the evenings to visit him at his house and said it was unfair of me to expect him to drive to my house all the time. Thing is, I didn't expect him to do it and told him so on more than one occasion. What happened to the days that a man wanted to go the extra mile for a woman and take care of her? He bragged about how he always took care of his wife but when it came to me all I ever got was lists of things he's done for me and told how selfish I was. He even told me my dogs had Stockholm Syndrom b/c I deliberately kept them away from others so they would love only me. That's the most rediculious thing I've ever heard of. They are socialized with everyone that comes in my home. That isn't even what Stockholm Syndrom is in the first place.

I have a masters degree in mental health counseling. Yeah, the more I think about this the funnier it gets.

He even had the nerve to tell me that I was a bad mother and that I would never be able to have a relationship with anyone. My children are grown and I didn't even know him when I was raising them so how would he know this? I got ridiculed b/c I didn't want him dressing in female clothing and parading around in my yard in front of the neighbors children or b/c I wouldn't go to the mall with him and have him change into all female clothing while there.

Lets hear from some of you CD's. Do you respect your GG's boundaries or do you just replace her every time she don't do everything you want or demand of her?

[Diane Smith]

There is nothing in your original message to suggest that any of the problems in this relationship were related to his CDing per se. Rather, they mostly seem to stem from his recent divorce and his inability to completely extract himself from that previous relationship. The betrayal of your confidences to other female friends also implies that he was not completely ready to commit to you exclusively. Neither of these problems is unusual and they're certainly not unique to CDs, but I think you did the right thing by ending the relationship. On the bright side, many of us here appreciate a woman like you who is willing and able to support a crossdressing partner and even, ideally, accept it as a positive aspect of his/her personality. I hope this bad experience doesn't dissuade you from maintaining this open attitude in your future relationships.

I wish you well in finding your ideal partner, whether a crossdresser or not.

- Diane

[Karren H]

Lets hear from some of you CD's. Do you respect your GG's boundaries or do you just replace her every time she don't do everything you want or demand of her?

I'd have to check but I'm pretty sure "She who must be obeyed" wouldn't let me replace her!

[WsprsOnTheWind]

Karren, I have a coffee cup that says that.

Diane, the fact that he was a CD was NOT the issue at all. The issue I had with it was that he expected me to accept it and embrace it yet he wasn't willing to accept me. He comes from a very delusional thinking familiy and he and his ex-wife are no exception.

Of course, being a mental health therapist, I knew better than to get involved with someone so newly divorced in the first place. I told him as much but he said he had been emotionally divorced from her for 5 years. That has been proven to NOT be true at all.

[Karren H]

he said he had been emotionally divorced from her for 5 years.

Well we crossdressers are habitual liars ya know!!! Just ask my wife... sigh...........

[Marissa]

Wow, you spent a lot of time here telling us what was wrong in the relationship but just your first post was enough to say he was not the right one for you. And as others stated, it had nothing to do with his dressing. That is just the person he is..and still hang on to the ex. You made compromises and expected the same..so its sad when that doesn't happen.

Think that is where my last marriage had to come to an end since I gave up alot of myself and not much in return.

Eitherway, please do not let it be the bases for not dating another cd. Some reason you were willing to accept his dressing..maybe next time you will get the other half that you deserve

Hugs,
Marissa

[tgcowgirl]

Hi WOTW,
There are thoughtless, selfish %^#@ from all across the gender spectrum. A relationship involves 2 people, and give and take on both sides. You were VERY giving in the fact that you accepted his crossdressing. Thats a biggie. Big mistake on his part to not realize what he had. Sounds like a very dysfuntional, self centered person. Not all CDers are like this. Some of us are very giving, understanding, and respectful of the feelings of the people we are in relationships with. Any relationship has boundries. Of course, the more at peace,and comfortable a person is with being CD, the more likely they will be better relationship material. You made the right choice. You sound like a very intelligent, caring person who deserves way better than being treated like a doormat.
Take Care

[ReineD]

What happened to the days that a man wanted to go the extra mile for a woman and take care of her?

Hi Wsprs, welcome to the forum! I have a slightly different take on your situation, from a GG POV.

The above quote says it all to me. Your relationship didn't work out because you and he had entirely different expectations of one another.

Often in this forum, I read stories from CDs who are recently divorced, and who swear that the next relationship will be with a woman who fully supports the CDing. They've had their fill with having to suppress the inner femme. But, the CDs are not just after someone who will accept them for who they are and be happy with them dressed at home, in bed (possibly), and who will want to go out with them dressed. They also want to relinquish some of the traditional "guy who always drives on the date, opens the door, pays the bill and otherwise does all the other traditional guy things" role. Lol. This is not a bad thing, but I swear that CDs are among the most egalitarian partners you'll ever meet. I don't want to paint with a broad brush, but you'd be surprised at how many CDs long for an assertive woman who knows her mind, and who is not afraid to take charge. This helps them be true to their inner, more passive feminine selves. Bring on the feminists!

I wonder if your ex bf didn't have these expectations, even if he wasn't able to put it in so many words. And your requirements were to be appreciated of course, and to be made to feel a priority in his life, not unlike a woman who is pursued by a regular, non-CD guy. I don't blame you for this. It took me a while to understand my SO's mindset, after having been in a 30 year relationship with a traditional, take-charge kinda guy who, when he sees something sexy, wants to see it on me and not himself. But, the take-charge kinda guys also have their own, but entirely different (overbearing) issues. I'd much rather be with my more egalitarian SO. And we can both wear the sexy things.

As to the baggage that comes along with exes and kids, I agree that he shouldn't have continually broken plans with you at the last minute. But, I'm in the situation your ex is in right now. The past chapter in my life is closing very slowly and much of it is beyond my control at the moment (a painfully long divorce process). The loose threads are slowly being tied up and thank God I do have a SO who understands the quandary I'm put in sometimes when a child pops in from out of town unannounced. I've not broken plans with my SO, but we've had occasional last minute plan alterations. This is life. The importance is that he knows the sometimes unsettled nature of things frustrate me just as much as him, and we do talk it all out. This part of my life is improving, although slowly and I thank my stars for having a flexible SO when it comes to accommodating the other people in my life over which I have no control. I'm not making excuses here, just stating a very real fact about a prior life that is winding down more slowly than my relationship with my SO ramped up.

The other females in his life: I agree he had no business telling intimate details about you to her. This is NOT OK. If my SO did this, I'd wonder to whom he feels closest emotionally, me or the other female friend.

[docrobbysherry]

Wrprs, as Reine states so well above, a nearly 50 y/o man coming out of a long marriage, is bound to have LOTS OF BAGGAGE! I'm NOT making excuses for him, but it sounds like he doesn't want to, or is incapable of being involved with someone in an exclusive relationship now! It may take some time for him to find himself and settle into the NEW LIFESTYLE he should eventually find!

Look him up in 2 years. I'll bet his circumstances will be much different than they r now!

[WsprsOnTheWind]

Please understand that I am not trying to be one-sided here. As I have told him, I do understand with a small child that things do come up unexpectedly. But, NOT constantly. My issue is that I asked him months ago, before his ex went back to her seasonal job to please talk to her and let her know to have a back up plan for when she had these schedule changes come up and he refused to do so.

He was always able to and encouraged too dress in femme with me. We went out to clubs where he was fully dressed several times and I actually enjoyed it. So, I didn't feel that it was too much to ask that he not dress in front of the children in my neighborhood and that he respect that I was not comfortable taking him to the mall and him changing into femme clothing while we were there. He took great pains to keep things hidden from his family and friends but he expected me to be willing open to parading it around in front of others. I have always been a private person and never liked to be embarassed in public. I did not feel that the few things I requested of him was asking too much.

[BRANDYJ]

Wsprs, I agree with all the posts before me about this guy's lack of commitment, lack of compromise and his demands about your dogs npot being allowed in the house. That issue alone tells me all I need to know about this guy. In the first place I am a dog lover and realize to many, including you, that dogs become part of the family as much as any human family members. He foolishly made an issue of your dogs being allowed in your own home??? Secondly, my guard goes up about anyone that feels that way about dogs and their relationship to those that have them. How unfair, unrealistic, unfeeling can a guy be to ask you t6o keep your dogs outside!
When he used the word "compromise" he meant as long as you do everything his way, things will be fine. What did he do to accommodate you, your wishes and lifestyle? Clearly, he did nothing! You gave, he took, and took and he cared only about his desires and wishes. Like others have said, it has little to do with the fact that he is a CD. Sadly, he is typical of a selfish man that thinks women are here only to pleasure, serve and please a man...a Neanderthal from the dark ages.
Now add that he expected you to go to the mall and make him change into complete female mode of dress and parade in public together, totally disgusts me! He could care less how embarrassed, humiliated or uncomfortable this would make you. I am one that believes my crossdressing is a private thing and it is my responsibility to keep it private and away from those that might be uncomfortable around me dressed in feminine mode. If I was 98% passable, my feelings "might" be different. But I am not into public humiliation and I do care what others think....Especially the one woman I love and care about. He demonstrated total disregard for your comfort level, not to mention those around him like children and neighbors in your neighborhood. Not all CD's are like this at all.
I for one am happy you found out what type of narcissistic, arrogant, selfish, foolish person this guy is. I am sorry your education and learning about us that are CD's came from a very poor example. I wish you well dear friend.

[WsprsOnTheWind]

I realize that I have made some lengthy posts. Journaling is very therapeutic as I am always telling my clients. I also realize that him being 50 years old and soon out of a divorce would mean there would be baggage, this was another reason I felt counseling was a good idea for us. He hadn't been in the dating world for years and he wasn't used to dating the personality type that I am.

I understand his need to step out of the dominate male role as one poster stated and let his gg take the lead. I was willing to do that and he had ample opportunity when he was with me to dress and be in femme.

[BRANDYJ]

Wsprs, Please ask to be invited to FAB, a forum only for Females At Birth. Your insight, your experiences and opinions would be greatly appreciated by other GG's that are in relationships with us CD's. Reine D. above is one of the moderators and can invite you to join. I for one hope you visit often and add to the list of wonderful GG's that offer advice and opinions in our MTF forums. Of course none of us CDs can even read what you ave to say over in FAB. But I think you will be a very welcome new member there.
So please consider staying with us and join in on the many topics of interest. Most of us CD's adore, admire and respect all our GG members.

[WsprsOnTheWind]

Thank you Brandy. I will certainly do that. One does need all the friends they can get.

[SamanthaS]

You deserve better, cd or not Keep looking for someone without the hang-ups.

[JiveTurkeyOnRye]

As many others have said, the fact that he CD'd seems to have nothing to do with why you broke it off with him. There are plenty of CD'ers out there who aren't divorced, who would consider counseling and also who would be more firm with their ex.

Having said that, now I want to play devil's advocate. First off, maybe he didn't want to go to counseling because he already had done it with his ex, and since she is his ex, in his mind it clearly didn't work. It probably reminds him of a pretty rotten time in his life. If he went with you three times, that means he gave it a real shot even though it was clearly something he didn't want to do.

Secondly, I don't care how accepting a woman is with my crossdressing, I would be really hesitant to agree to drop my friends. Especially for the first reason. So she's married? Were they having an affair? How is it deceitful to her partner for her to have a male friend that she's not having an affair with? One of my best friends from high school is married and I often spent time with her when her husband wasn't around, and there was nothing inappropriate about it. In my opinion, any relationship where an ultimatum is set to never see a certain friend again is doomed because there's clearly no trust there.

Third, while there is something to be said about not being abused by your ex, the thing that you sort of glossed over is that he was getting time with his son. I'm sorry but he's a parent and that does always take precedence over being a boyfriend. You didn't say in your post how they share custody, but if he doesn't get totally half custody he probably doesn't want to turn down any opportunity to spend time with his kid.

You say his ex tried to control his life from one side, and his mama from the other, and from the sound of things, you were trying to do it from a third side, so it probably is best for both of you that you broke it off. He clearly isn't the man you want and need him to be and both of you deserve someone who can be the partner they want and need.