Mothers & Misandry

[Areyan]

hi guys,

not having a great one today, thought i'd come to the forums and ask about your mothers and/or relationships with mother figures and how you have got on with them throughout your life. i can share with you that mine is so hate-filled and sick with misandry that i don't think i can continue to be a part of her life. i have tried so hard all my life to fight this abomination she calls "men ruining everything" and its little wonder i could not realize my true identity for 3 decades through all the hate and vitriol. even discussing other topics like capitalism or religion always brings her back to the man-hating parade and it's making me sick with sadness.

i'm a bit shaken up from getting off the phone from her earlier today and again not seeing eye to eye on the feminism/misandry debate. i used to consider myself an avid feminist until i continued to read on everything feminism is. steeped in complete man-hatred and blame, how do these women reconcile their sexual/romantic feelings for men?

i know they have had to fight hard and still are against violence and cruelty by some men but today's modern feminist borders on psychotically sick people who despise an entire gender. when i asked my mother if she would still continue to hate men even if they tried to make amends for all the ills their forefathers have done, her answer was yes. absolutely. feminists want respect from men, yet still want the right to continue hating us. why bother expecting change at all then, if it's going to be so ill-received?

i have deep respect, admiration and love for women and i support women's rights, but i can no longer stomach being hated for something i am not. i realize that even as one single man here i'll never make a difference, but how will any man make a difference in how we are received after hundreds of years of abuse? i feel so sad how sometimes men are viewed as disposable pieces of garbage, yet it's an unspeakable crime to hurt a woman. where is the equality or humanity in that? how are your mothers about men and if any of you have lived with feminism or misandry, how has it affected you as a man?

[mistunderstood]

I am sorry you are having a bad time. As for my mother she did not like men after she split with my dad but not at a level were she hated men. It was my grand mother who even when married to grandpa she acted like she hated him and all men in general. Now I was to little to really know if he was a jerk but what I can remember was he tried to give her every thing she wanted. She would tell me all kinds of bad things about men when I was growing up. Tell you the truth I think if she were a young adult now I think she would never get married.

[DanielMacBride]

Oh man. Don't get me STARTED on my mother lol - if she dropped off the face of the earth tomorrow, I can honestly say I would feel absolutely nothing but relief that she is finally out of the picture and will leave me the hell alone. That woman is NOT my mother - she may have spawned me but that's where her claim to being "mother" ends, she has not ever treated me like a mother should (my role in the family is apparently designated scapegoat/dog to kick when they don't like something or it goes wrong, because somehow it's always all my fault and I will never be as good as them).

As for feminism, I consider myself a staunch feminist - but the key there is the definition of "feminist". It does suck at times when the militant feminazi crowd jumps down my throat about how I CAN'T be a feminist because I'm a man and blah blah blah, but my view on that is, I may have decreased the number of strong, intelligent feminist women by one, but I have increased the number of sensitive, strong and aware feminist men by one, too. I haven't had one person give me a comeback to that one yet I know it looks like you can't make a difference as just one man, but trust me, you can. Maybe not to the whole world, but you can make a difference to those people around you by living what you believe and putting your money where your mouth is and BEING a feminist. Don't hate on men, because that's just as bad as what men have historically done to women and continue to do - but you can be walking proof that not all men are how these women portray/see them. And in doing so, you may inspire and encourage other men to follow suit. I have found that this is the case in my own life - if I don't tolerate other men around me behaving badly toward women in any of the myriad ways they do it, they stop and think "why doesn't he do that, why is that unacceptable to him?" and I have actually had guys THINK about the way they treat women and why, and realise that they don't like that very much.

I can relate to the sadness at seeing men being viewed as disposable pieces of garbage - but by the same token, sometimes I see how other men behave and I am seriously ashamed to be a man if that is what is considered acceptable. I just do what I know is right, and it does have an impact on those around me. Some will never change their views (like my mother for example) but that isn't important to me - what IS important is knowing that I am NOT the same as the guys the feminazis hate, and showing by example that it is entirely possible to be male and not be a sexist, chauvinist, misogynistic pig. (I am also NOT a doormat for feminazis to hate and dump all their crap on, either - I will speak out against any kind of gender-based crap like that no matter what the gender of the person it's coming from, and I have actually managed to make a couple of militant feminists who hated men, see that they are painting all of us with a very broad brush because not ALL men are like that. Although, one of them did stick to her argument of "but you're not really a man because you were raised a female" (gee, thanks lol - guess with the rabid feminazis you just have to learn to pick your battles).

How it has affected me as a man...well aside from the constant *headdesk*ing over the militant feminist point of view that all men are sh*t on the bottom of their feet, it has made me a stronger man and more determined to stick to my principles. If someone treats me like crap, regardless of gender, it doesn't make it any better or earn me any points if I stoop to their level and engage in an argument or name-calling. I will discuss it intelligently with people who are willing to listen - but if they aren't, you have to learn to just grit your teeth and walk away from it and realise that you won't ever change those people's viewpoint because it's all they know and they are too scared to admit that they might be wrong.

[Pythos]

One of my big problems with the feminism is that the term is used to describe the equality movement by many people. I think using a gender loaded name like that instead of "equality" is a really horrible way to title something that can be so great.

Kinda like Global warming, opposed to Global climate change. The latter describes the problem, where as global warming makes people think the entire Earth is getting warmer.

Now on the actual topic here. I have encountered women that hate men. Just absolutely hate men. I have also encountered men that hated women. I was also entertained by the fact both of these groups did not have intimate relations with the same sex. They were staunch heterosexuals.

Figure that one out.

I am fortunate to have a mother that does not hate men. But at the same time she supports society's double standards. She predominately wears pants, or jeans, has a short hair cut, and works. All of which during the early days of the women's movement would be looked down upon. Yet, she pretty much insists I have short hair, wear pants at all times. To me she is an example of how I think the sexual revolution was one sided and incomplete.

There are times I am not surprised that one sex hates another. Just take a look at the thread about "no means no", here for just a tiny example. We silly humans have let things go to far and have allowed manipulation by one sex to control us. There was that old rule that you never hit a girl if you are male. I'm sorry, how about you never hit anyone, and if someone does, you deck them, no matter the sex.

I can relate to the sadness at seeing men being viewed as disposable pieces of garbage - but by the same token, sometimes I see how other men behave and I am seriously ashamed to be a man if that is what is considered acceptable. I just do what I know is right, and it does have an impact on those around me. Some will never change their views (like my mother for example) but that isn't important to me

I too can see this. But, I also do not like how many women behave. Nor how such behavior is glamorized in shows like desperate housewives and Jersy Shore, some really horrible examples I am to understand.

[DanielMacBride]

One of my big problems with the feminism is that the term is used to describe the equality movement by many people. I think using a gender loaded name like that instead of "equality" is a really horrible way to title something that can be so great.

I agree. That's more or less what I was trying to say when I said that the key to me considering myself a staunch feminist is the definition of "feminist". I am not the kind of feminist who thinks men are worthless appendages that should be gotten rid of, or that women are superior to men. I am the kind of feminist who believes that EVERYONE, regardless of sex/gender, deserves equal respect (unless they do something to lose it), and that either sex can do or be whatever they want to achieve, as long as they don't disrespect the other sex in the process. (If that makes sense, it's late here and I need sleep).

There are times I am not surprised that one sex hates another. Just take a look at the thread about "no means no", here for just a tiny example. We silly humans have let things go to far and have allowed manipulation by one sex to control us. There was that old rule that you never hit a girl if you are male. I'm sorry, how about you never hit anyone, and if someone does, you deck them, no matter the sex.

I like you, you hold a similar view to my own This made me smile, because I always hated that rule of never hit a girl (when I was in girl mode, I was quite the brawler lol, have been known to put at least one big biker guy in hospital, and was never afraid of being hit, although I never once started a fight, only finished what others started - now, I tend to avoid violence wherever possible but will give a good account of myself if someone else starts it, and if they do, I'll still damn well finish it). I figured if a girl had enough balls to hit me first, she was fair game and could take what she dished out But as a rule I will walk before I will hit anyone, because I just don't like violence of any kind - it's just so *ugly*.

I too can see this. But, I also do not like how many women behave. Nor how such behavior is glamorized in shows like desperate housewives and Jersy Shore, some really horrible examples I am to understand.

Yeah, it does go both ways - some women do hate men and treat them like crap, and a lot of guys do the same to women. But it's always the women who are seen as victims and there's a big outcry when a man does it - if a woman does the same to a man, it's not seen as such a big deal as when a man treats a woman badly, and I think that's wrong. It should be an equally big deal and bad thing either way. I actually left another board I was on because it was all women (well except me, I was the sole transguy on a board full of transwomen and crossdressers) and they were making very sexist remarks to me all the time, and when I said anything about it, I was openly ridiculed and told I should "lighten up" and stop spoiling their fun. Of course if I had told one of the women to STFU and get back in the kitchen where she belonged (or any other disrespectful sexist crap), they would have crucified ME for that, but it was OK to say things like "men are ugly and coarse" and "men are mutants" (in reference to some scientific article that was posted about the fact that all fetuses start out female and then at a certain point the male ones become male, something to do with a gene called SRY, which the women on this board said should stand for "SoRrY I'm male"). I posted to remind them that not everyone on the board was female, and I got torn to shreds for being "too politically correct" and not just going along with it.

Anyway I have wandered kinda off-topic here lol.....sorry Areyan

</hijack>

[AnonyMouse]

Does EVERYONE here have a screwed-up mother?

Sometimes I wonder.

I've posted about mine in other threads, and I'm not going to rehash the details in a publicly-visible forum (even though I strongly doubt she would ever see it), but I will say one thing about my mother: she's not misandrist. In fact, she believes that feminism is taking it too far, and that it is the responsibility of every married woman to stay home and take care of the kids while the husband works and if they just did this then they would have all the money they needed, srsly. Which is basically the opposite of my views. I definitely consider myself a feminist, though as a man I am more invested in the male side of the equation. It is my personal rule that gender equality will never be reached in this country until it is acceptable for ALL men (regardless of birth sex, wealth level, sexual orientation, race, and whatnot) to wear clothing that has been historically associated with women. And by "acceptable," I don't mean "legal." I'm talking about having this behavior represented in mass media as something both acceptable and, in fact, not even considered deviant from the norm. Also when straight men stop telling themselves and their friends that women secretly like being catcalled/groped/photographed/raped, and when a woman's simple act of exposing a part of her body that men find attractive is not construed as an invitation to have sex with her.

I probably got kind of off topic there, but I noticed that some of the guys discussing feminism seem to have a very simplistic view on the issue, brought to them by radfems who really have no idea what the heck they're supposed to be fighting for - which is equality, not revenge.

[Adam]

NO my mum is all i could wish for and more i just fell VERY lucky

[DanielMacBride]

I probably got kind of off topic there, but I noticed that some of the guys discussing feminism seem to have a very simplistic view on the issue, brought to them by radfems who really have no idea what the heck they're supposed to be fighting for - which is equality, not revenge.

Since there have really only been two people discussing it, I'd guess that was aimed at me? Given that I have only discussed a small part of my views here and that you have no idea how I got my views, that's actually pretty offensive that you have made such broad assumptions about me. Also the fact that in Australia, there are very few feminists (at least visible ones, and yes, I count myself among them) who are actually fighting for equality - the standard view is that if you are a man, you can't be a feminist (and yes, the majority of the vocal "feminists" come from the lesbian community and are, by and large, man-haters for no rational reason other than that they are lesbians, and there is a very pervasive view that pretty much only lesbians can be feminists and anyone else is not really taken seriously; on the flip side, Australian culture as a whole is not particularly feminist-friendly, and the lesbian feminists are not taken seriously by the wider population either because ANYONE professing to be a feminist is usually shot down as being "radical", with the implication that "radical" = nut job, regardless of whether that is in fact the case). I am well aware that the whole point of feminism is equality, and I am also well aware that there are some major cultural differences between Australia and the US that are apparently being lost in translation here (plus the fact that when I am writing, I tend to try to keep things simple or I wander waaaay off topic and take pages to do it, which you have apparently misinterpreted as having a "very simplistic view" of feminism). Also, yes, I tend to be pretty black-and-white about a lot of things (Aspergers and high functioning autism, yay </sarcasm>) and people treating each other badly is one of those things - granted, both women and men have some valid beefs about the way they are treated by each other (and yes there is the historical context), but for me, it isn't so much about gender as it is about respect and acceptance of differences. Someone can identify as a little green pumpkin from Uzbekhistan for all I care, but if they treat another being badly, I will speak up because EVERYONE deserves respect and equality.

While I appreciate and echo your view that gender equality will never be reached until it is acceptable for all men to wear women's clothing, realistically that's going to be a huge ask because you are not just talking about ditching a clothing rule here, you are talking about challenging a whole lot of social and gender conditioning, which is a much bigger task. I think it SHOULD be perfectly normal and acceptable for anyone of any gender to wear whatever clothing they like without being marginalised for it (and since I am a corsetier and tailor, I am actually working in collaboration with a friend to produce a line of men's clothing which does include skirts and other traditionally "feminine" garments). Sometimes it's better to do things in small steps than in one big leap However, this:

Also when straight men stop telling themselves and their friends that women secretly like being catcalled/groped/photographed/raped, and when a woman's simple act of exposing a part of her body that men find attractive is not construed as an invitation to have sex with her.

I TOTALLY agree with. We live in a rape culture and the only way that is really going to change is if the MEN stand up and say no, that is NOT acceptable, we are NOT going to tolerate seeing men do this any more or being told that it's acceptable. Which is kind of where I approach my feminist views from - as a man, I recognise the inequalities and the way they are perpetuated within society. As a transman, I have a unique perspective in that I have experienced life in a woman's shoes and have also experienced first-hand what it's like to be on the receiving end of the way society says it's ok for men to treat women (I'm not going to go into details here, but I have had some pretty horrific experiences related to this). As a man, I have also experienced ridicule from other men because I won't cave in to the widely-held expectations of what is "acceptable" male behaviour (in terms of how they view and treat women) - but I have also had some interesting and intelligent discussions with guys who are uncomfortable with what is expected of them as men (both bio and trans men) and they have been relieved to know that they are not the only ones who hold that view. And if I can help those guys to be strong enough to actually be true to their own views by putting mine in action, then hopefully they will go and do the same with other men and there will be at least a few more of us

So I do know the workings and I do know how it should be, and that's what I am "fighting" for. Although I don't see it so much as "fighting" - for me personally, the best way to make a difference is to lead by example, and to respectfully point out (and usually engage in discussion, although sometimes it doesn't work LOL) when someone (regardless of gender) is behaving badly towards another person (because as I said before, for me, disrespect is disrespect, and gender doesn't come into it, it's unacceptable either way). Not all activists are on the front line But from where I sit, it actually sounds to me like you and I hold similar views, albeit expressed slightly differently.

LOL this thread has been well and truly taken OT, but the discussion is interesting

[NiCo]

[Long boring post]

Lol, I seen Daniel had posted in here and instantly knew what he was going to say regarding his mother!

My mother…well, where to start? When I told her in secret at 16 years old that I was uncomfortable living as female she was seemingly supportive. I was naïve back then, obviously. It turns out she was using this to get the “feel sorry for me” routine. She was friends with a transwoman from her uni but when I became friendly with her my mother blamed her for “corrupting” me, and “encouraging” me.

At that age, I had yet to discover the real woman behind the title “mother”. I would soon learn though and it would be a tough lesson!

My mother hates men, yet she is also a *****. She hates them, until she wants her needs met. She is a TAKE-TAKE person. She abandoned all her kids when her youngest was 16. She put me into hospital and refused to let me back out. She told them I was not transgender, that I was schizophrenic [through a misdiagnosis] and I was kept in a psychiatric hospital for over 5 weeks [that was the first time, there was another two times after that- which was longer].

My mother showed her true colours. Long story short. She didn’t like that I was male, she still insists that her daughter is alive. Sorry mother, I killed her with a scalpel and the government granted me my new birth certificate. Prove your daughter exists because all her records are SCRUBBED. I even went as far as emailing my GRC and birth certificate to her, for LULZ. She is a poisonous bitch but I pissed on her fire.

Everyone who knows me best will know I hate her more than anything else on this planet, in this universe. I hate everything about her, she’s a horrible evil bitch and I hope Karma bites her bad. Everyone who knows me well knows EXACTLY what she did to me, I will not bore you with the whole story, but those on my Facebook get the occasional LOL when I attack her openly. She likes to publicly try and “pwn” me but I turn it back on her. I hate her so damn much, the fact she lives 3000 miles away is 3000 miles too close. The sooner she’s 6ft under the better tbh. I would attend her funeral only to get my surgically produced **** out and piss on her grave. The end.

I regards to feminism in whatever context:

I’m not even going to try and lie and agree, cause I don’t. I am not a feminist, never will be. I do not respect women if they do not respect me. I do not speak to lesbians, no matter what. I do not take anything to do with women’s rights because they forget about MY rights. They are quick to stick me beside all the arseholes that use their masculinity to overpower women. I treat them the same way they treat me. Over the years, I used to really have respect and admiration but being exposed to the vastness of the interweb where people can hide behind a computer and be their true selves with no worry it will result in RL drama, it has change the way I see things, the way I view things.

Men can be abused by their female partner too, but it’s never spoken about, why? Because “OH POOR WOMEN” no. I was abused in my last relationship with a female and for that reason; I will never have another female partner. I lost everything being with that cow, she took everything from me and twisted all the abuse to make ME look like I deserved it, or that I was doing it to her. I have also been drugged and attacked by a woman when I was 17, because she didn’t like that I was “changing sex” and was "a traitor to women". You know, one of the crazy feminist lesbians? Yeah. I rarely speak about it, but that is the root cause of my disregard for them. I will only change when I am proven wrong. That is how I work these days. It keeps me safe from mental trauma.

So no, I have no time for women who get all high and mighty. My best friend is a woman; she has proven to me that she is not an idiot like the others. Good. That’s what I need. She was there for me when my ex was being nasty and horrible to me. She was the one who defended me. But it doesn’t mean I’m going to automatically TRUST females again. It just means that this female in particular is one of the good ones. I regard her as my sister I trust her THAT much!

I will play their own game. Hate men? Good, we’ll play your game straight back in your face.

Another thing I noticed in my hometown is that some people [the small minority!] talk about me as a female and still use my old name as a way to insult me [you know, the ones who I went to school with but hated that I was popular and awesome? LOL] but when it comes to me telling them I’m gonna go to my hometown and kick their heads in SUDDENLY I am a MALE! LOL. Therefore, it seems I am only male to some people when it suits THEM. No.

Maybe my attitude makes me just as bad as them, but I don’t care because I am mentally stable. My coping strategies are in place and I am mentally well now. I will not change to suit anyone. I will relax the rules every-so-often, but in order for me to remain healthy, I will defend myself in my own ways. It is what works for me. I admire the men who put up with women, the ones who don’t resort to violence. Lately, being more integrated with trans sites, reading the hatred transwomen have for men…and as I said ^^^ up there somewhere, that cis-women say/ and do, it has made me wonder why I even bothered to be a “gentleman” in the first place. Not anymore. Respect is a two-way thing and I will only give it out to those who give it back.

Quote me, tear my post apart if you must, you will not change my mind or make me think any different so you would be wasting your time. Accept that these are MY views, and I accept yours are different. In time I may change the way I think, but this is how it stands for now. Only I can change myself. You can’t, so don’t even try when you could be putting the 10-20 minutes of tearing my post apart on something like baking a cake or w/e you like to do.

[DanielMacBride]

I may not completely agree with your views, but I respect your opinions and you have valid reasons to feel the way you do about women generally, given your experiences. You should never feel that you have to excuse your views or justify them - just because they may differ from others (or even the majority), doesn't make them any less valid, and you are entitled to hold your own opinions

We have both had some crap experiences with women, we just deal with it differently. I agree with your point about women getting away with abuse (I wrote about that in my previous post too). Major difference between you and me on that one is that being older, I just don't have the time or energy to put into hating them back any more lol, I have mellowed with age But I can understand where you are coming from, because I used to hold very similar views to yours and I'm pretty sure that it's only time and testosterone that have made me change my stance.

[NiCo]

I may not completely agree with your views, but I respect your opinions and you have valid reasons to feel the way you do about women generally, given your experiences. You should never feel that you have to excuse your views or justify them - just because they may differ from others (or even the majority), doesn't make them any less valid, and you are entitled to hold your own opinions

We have both had some crap experiences with women, we just deal with it differently. I agree with your point about women getting away with abuse (I wrote about that in my previous post too). Major difference between you and me on that one is that being older, I just don't have the time or energy to put into hating them back any more lol, I have mellowed with age But I can understand where you are coming from, because I used to hold very similar views to yours and I'm pretty sure that it's only time and testosterone that have made me change my stance.

I just need time to process my views and whatever experiences in my own time, not have people cram it down my throat. If this happens, I am more likely to continue- even increase my views. Cause I’m awkward and stubborn. Lol. You know me well Daniel

I never always thought this way, but then again, for example: I used to think people who didn’t have operations or hormones to transition were crazy, now I completely understand and accept that people don’t always think like me, AND most importantly, the world does not revolve around me.

Maybe age will mellow me out, like it has done with you. It probably will, and I personally hope it does cause I hate being so uptight and angry. I process differently, the more someone tries to force me, the more I rebel cause I’m like that, I’m a troll. Naturally, that’s just me. Init

Dan, you have had a tough time with your mother, you have told me at length and in detail and tbh, she doesn’t deserve a “kid” like you. She deserves nothing. My mother deserves a smack in the face, and hopefully one day someone will give her it. Until then, I pray.

[DanielMacBride]

I process differently, the more someone tries to force me, the more I rebel cause I’m like that, I’m a troll. Naturally, that’s just me. Init

LOL you and I are far more alike than you know Quickest way to get me to hate something is to try to ram it down my throat, and quickest way to get me to do something is tell me I can't

[Pythos]

I just want to say. You two (daniel, and NiCo) Kick *ss!! Your thinking is very much like mine. Thank you for your contributions.

*grabs wheel and brings post back on topic* :P

[brylram]

Does EVERYONE here have a screwed-up mother?

I'm with Adam, my mom is great. She's glad I'm her son, mad that I couldn't transition sooner, and constantly saying she's proud of me (for non-transition reasons). Can't think of how she could be better really.

[AnonyMouse]

Since there have really only been two people discussing it, I'd guess that was aimed at me? Given that I have only discussed a small part of my views here and that you have no idea how I got my views, that's actually pretty offensive that you have made such broad assumptions about me.

Oops. I'm sorry about that. I think maybe I read some things into your post that I'd actually seen somewhere else, which may have colored my response. I'll try to read more carefully in the future.

Everything that's been said about radfems is spot-on. I've had the good fortune of avoiding most of them in my short time on the planet, but now and again I'll run into some writing that reminds me that certain cis women will never care about anything but their own interests, and it's really sickening. There's probably a fascinating sociological reason for that, but I won't even try to hash that out. And it doesn't make things any better when someone points out how men are being treated in this system and every feminist in the vicinity starts this "Stop making it all about you, this is MY liberation we're talking about!" thing (which is one of the things I have seen personally).

While I appreciate and echo your view that gender equality will never be reached until it is acceptable for all men to wear women's clothing, realistically that's going to be a huge ask because you are not just talking about ditching a clothing rule here, you are talking about challenging a whole lot of social and gender conditioning, which is a much bigger task. I think it SHOULD be perfectly normal and acceptable for anyone of any gender to wear whatever clothing they like without being marginalised for it (and since I am a corsetier and tailor, I am actually working in collaboration with a friend to produce a line of men's clothing which does include skirts and other traditionally "feminine" garments). Sometimes it's better to do things in small steps than in one big leap(.)

Of course it is. I'm not saying that it's anywhere close to feasible to make this happen at this point in time, on this grand of a scale. This is simply a unit of measurement - I won't consider the fight to be over until this stage has been reached, however long it takes.

Anyway, uh... mothers and misandry. We definitely got on more of a misandry tack here. So, having said that, I'm going to leave this tangent with this post.

[Areyan]

wow! this thread really took on a life of it's own. after reading through the responses i am humbled by all of your replies.

brylram and Adam - you guys are very lucky to have such cool mothers and i'm glad you guys are supported by your mums, i wish the rest of us had been so lucky.

Nico - i hear your pain in your responses and i do not want to take up any points with you or even make you feel you need to argue your position because you don't. your life experiences are yours and are a completely valid and important part of your life history and learning processes. i wanted to say though that i do understand what it's like to be physically abused and mistreated on the other side of the gender fence - i was living as a female with a cis male partner, and although he got in a truckload of trouble for abusing me i still could have ended up dead before that happened. reading your story gave me ample warning and a new awareness on what to expect with potential abuse toward males by cis women. thanks for sharing and again, i'm so sorry for what happened to you, it's completely despicable.

Daniel & Pythos - very cool input on such a touchy subject. i am blown away by how many similarities a lot of us have suffered with abusive or ignorant female carers and how many of us are just darned incensed that for all this equal rights talking from feminists, the boys still have a fair way to go to see it really become equal for us too. thanks to you both for sharing your views too... i've often felt that the "no hitting girls" rule was rather cruel and one-sided and although i do not condone violence toward anyone (having been victimized myself in the past) i still think it's unjust and mean for a female to hit a male and get away with it, just because of her natal gender.

Anonymouse - we all need our mothers to adopt your mother's views on misandry. i too think the feminists have taken it too far one way and it's disgusting how many modern mothers have so readily adopted this approach without once considering how pathological it is. thanks for sharing your views as well.

thanks again all for talking so openly here on such a difficult topic to talk about.

[DanteDonovan]

I love my mom, and she loves me. Well, as best as someone like her is capable.

As far as feminist or misandry, it's a 50/50 with her. She remarried after she was divorced. She doesn't hate men, but at the same time she doesn't go looking to hang out with them. She's all for women's rights, but more from the perspective of "If they can do it, why can't I?". Wouldn't turn b@#$ dare a man open a door for her, etc. Considering her childhood history and such, I'm amazed she's sane and doesn't have a hatred of men. She's a little screwy in the head, but all things considered, she turned out pretty well. (I'm not going into her personal life even though I know no one here will ever come across her. I just don't think it respectful to do so).

What gets her hatred is the either you're for her or against her. You could be guy, girl, trans, drag queen, it don't matter, as long as you're on her side. She respects other people's opinions, but if it came down to a "who's truly right and who's not", well, you're in for some dangerous territory she you tell her she's not right. That's pretty much where she stands. I learned years ago to not take anything she says or does to me too personally since it isn't solely directed at me. She's just a b@#$ in some things in general.

As for my perspective, I'm all about equal rights. Not one or the other, since I know both sexes are guilty of doing something or other. Getting them to admit it and change it is a whole different thing. I find it just as easy to hang with guys and with girls, but if any of them might say something completely sexist outside of stupid jokes or friendly banter, I will say something.

I don't know. I guess I don't have much to offer this conversation since I haven't had to deal with the extreme from a family member, or done to my own person, to have me more one way than another. Sure, different genders do have certain characteristics, but that's how it is, and as far as I'm concerned is you're either nice or you aren't. I judge by personality and morals. I could couldn't care less about what's between your legs or what isn't.

I do not speak to lesbians, no matter what.

Out of curiosity, why?

[metalguy639]

I'm not going to put my opinion on the feminism topic part, no one will agree with me more and likely. I'm old, old fashioned & southern 100%.

On the mother thing my mom was my best friend. She was nuts and had some serious issues. She did do some really ****ed up things to me. But I think she did them because she loved me and was pretty screwed up herself. She passed away in April 1990 from cancer. She was 43 and still my best friend when she passed. I miss her terribly. Lots of things would be different now had she still been alive. LOTS I mean LOTS. Really long story there, trust me.

[Chickhe]

I have no sympathy for radicals of any kind...there is always two sides to a story. As for mothers...can't help you there, mine is just as messed up as yours although she has different cause.

[NiCo]

Out of curiosity, why?

I never let my guard down. Those who have hurt me instantly feel the barriers that I put up. It is my way of staying safe. I shouldn't consider them all the same, I know that...but that is how it started. I trusted too easily when I should not have. So, now I don't trust anyone of that group unless I have known them my entire life which are the only lesbians I talk to. They know where they stand with me, they would never ever cross me cause they know what would happen. These days, I would avoid speaking to lesbians and if that makes me homophobic or sexist then fair enough.

I have noticed lately that since surgery and my medication being increased that I am beginning to become more easygoing and happy with my life…and I have begun trusting some people I usually would not have. I hope I can fix all the problems in my mind but it will be a long slow process and if I have offended anyone then oooops but I’m not sorry for having strict coping mechanisms in place.

I am just screwed up. I admit it. I wouldn't be on medication if I was normal

Hope this cleared up any “WTF?” thoughts anyone may have. Lol.

[DanteDonovan]

cool, cool. Fair enough (:

Awesome you answered, and in a decent way. I was almost expecting you to start going at me for asking you why lol. Cuz I promise it's not to preach you into lesbian loving haha.

I can definitely say I've gotten screwed over by straight and gay people, so I can't afford to discriminate against everybody. I'm a social butterfly, it just wouldn't work XD

[FTM_Todd]

I have always had problems with my mother. She wasn't all feminist but she was determined to have two sons and two daughters. When she found out about my being transgendered she told me that "They had adopted me because they had wanted a daughter, not a son, and if I wasnt going to be that to them then they had no use for me anymore". They being my parents. But I know that she was speaking for my dad against his will at that time as he has always said that he would love me no matter what, and no matter what happened he would always be willing to help. My father is pretty much my hero. He had a hard time standing up against my mother when she would beat myself and my younger sister down. We both ended up with severe eating disorders and depression and for myself my bipolar disorder came out much younger than the average person's does because of her brutal wordy cut downs. I spent most of my life playing sports and running and excercising excessively to please her. When they finally gave up hope on me they sent me into the system where I realized that I can survive much better on my own than I ever did with her beating me down all of the time. When she found out that I wasn't going by Heather any longer she told me that if I wasn't going to keep my first name than I was to change my last name as well. I now go by the last name of my fiance. Her family understands the two of us or at least makes a conscious effort to try to and supports us as long as we work hard to better ourselves. I seriously dont know where I would be if I hadn't met Julie. She gives me the hope and strength to keep fighting as well as being my personal trainer to make my body more masculine. Seeing as there is a lot of mother hatred going on I can't help but wonder if there is a correlation there.....