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Thread: A Simple Question...

  1. #1
    Unofficial CD Mom Holly's Avatar
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    A Simple Question...

    What is wrong with cross dressing? Why has society disapproved? What is it about the cross dressing itself (not the lying, deceit, hiding, etc.) that threatens one-on-one relationships and tears apart families? How have we allowed clothing choices to become so powerful?

    I'm probably asking the wrong crowd here . I'm interested in hearing everyone's view on this, but I am particularly interested in hearing from our Loved Ones who have struggled with this issue.
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    If you believe that there is nothing wrong with crossdressing you have never seen me in a dress!

    Seriously, we are different. We do things that most people do not do. Many people have problems reating to things that are not done by most members of the tribe.
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    Junior Member Lexi X's Avatar
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    Its different and people are afraid of different things. Either that or it makes them look at themselves and scares them.

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    Life is for having fun. suzy1's Avatar
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    I am going to be painfully blunt here. There are some crossdressers that look good dressed. And we certainly have some here!
    But there are some that don’t. I think no mater how you look that’s fine.
    But out there in the nasty old world others see a man in a dress and to them it looks anything but good. They don’t like it. They think its weird, sick, perverted even.
    Now when these same people see a gorgeous looking drag queen it seems to be different. Even acceptable.
    I know that’s not the complete answer but its part of it I think.
    I even have to admit, if I see a woman in men’s clothes I find it unpleasant.
    That’s just how I see it.

    SUZY

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    I think that crossdressing may be considered as a threat to the masculine ideal, The supposedly ideal in that a man never cries, he must protect, he must show strength, he must never back down from a fight, he must be loyal and supportive. To me this ideal is very hard to change, in particular when some males may show weakness but hide behind a mask of so called neanderthal mentality. I am strong, I will put down anyone who says I am weak.
    This means that a family who is heavily based on the ideal man may become furious if there daughter marries a guy who does not conform to their ideals hence conflict. It is very sad that so many problems arise from the "ideal male" and many forms of "maleness" have evolved, only to be suppressed by the "ideal male".
    Unfortunately this attitude may take a long time to change, but with so much confusion about who crossdressers are, any change for the better will take much education and that takes time and commitment.
    I think that anything "out of the taken norm" will be considered as a threat from a closed society and that is so sad, but heck didn't poor old Copernicus have a problem putting forward his ideas on a sun centered universe and not the earth?

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    Holly,
    Thanks for posting this
    I am not a DR. but I have stayed at a Holiday Inn before, ..

    It's not the Clothing per say, its what it resembles how one acts when dressed or how you are percieved by others when dressed.. Walk around naked , you will be noticed, a guy wearing a dress is just a Taboo.. Nothing in this world is more natural then walking around naked . But yet it raises eye brows and can get you arrested..

    There is nothing wrong in wearing clothing, are you wearing makeup as well? Are you in a wig and pumps? This is telling others that you are not JUST WEARING CLOTHING.. You are telling others you have a Femme/Masculin side that needs to be expressed. something that unless they have a Femme/Masculin side them selfs would never understand.. So without understanding you walking around or yearing the desire to express the Femme side you have are considered a freak!! Just as you would be if you were to walk around naked..

    I can throw on a male pair of jeans, a male shirt.. Put a wig on ,throw some makeup on and then some heels and look just as Femme without having any female clothing exposed..
    Last edited by Lucy_Bella; 01-30-2011 at 04:56 PM.
    I do not!! Claim to be an expert on any topic, when I post a new thread or reply on any thread my imput is strickly that of a crossdresser. Not to offend Gay people , Transexuals or any other life style, I am only commenting on one of my own.

  7. #7
    Silver Member Joanne f's Avatar
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    A good question and i am looking forward to seeing any replies from the GGs on the clothes side of it only .
    I personally think it has a lot to do with sexual connotations possibly linked to the same sort of thing that people think when they see a woman in a very short skirt people start to think that it is worn for a reason other than just enjoyment .
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    Silver Member SherriePall's Avatar
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    I think it is because we upset the apple cart. If we look halfway decent then straight men have mixed feelings towards the woman they see if they realize that woman is actually a man. We threaten their sexual bearings. Rather than being their problem, they put the blame on us for creating those confusing thoughts they're having.

    That's my opinion at least for this moment.
    Sherrie Lynn Pall

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    Please don't let me be the last post on this thread

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    It is associated with a private matter of fantasy and deception. It conveys weakness and betrayal of the masculine privilege. It assumes homosexuality which also betrays the masculine privilege.

    There is a distaste for instability. To many the act of crossing gender lines means the accepted standards are irrelevant. It means people have to change and think and care for someone they never met.

    But mostly it is because certain religions are very intolerant and teach that it is ok to hate someone for who they are and what they do. Pretty much everything I said before that statement is just smoke and mirrors to avoid the elephant in the room.

    Would it surprise you that I have received condemnation for offending god from members of this very forum simply for being transsexual? Even our own community contains people blinded by religious prejudice.
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    clothing ia also a signal

    Quote Originally Posted by SherriePall View Post
    I think it is because we upset the apple cart. If we look halfway decent then straight men have mixed feelings towards the woman they see if they realize that woman is actually a man. We threaten their sexual bearings. Rather than being their problem, they put the blame on us for creating those confusing thoughts they're having.

    That's my opinion at least for this moment.
    This is my feeling exactly. It throws people off, because we are always looking for a reference point. People need those signals to differentiate and when they see a guy looking as good as a gal, they are not only embarrased that they made an identification error, but they may feel that someone has tricked them into a "gay" situation. Also, at least from those memebrs who post here from other countries, it seems to be a world-wide feeling.

    I remember many years ago when I was in Europe, I was walking behind two girls with long blond hair, their walk was feminine, they had long coats on as it was winter so the slacks fit in my mental image, but all of a sudden they turned around and were 2 young guys that were a bit androgenous but I was just caught off guard by the long blond hair, and made the supposition that they were indeed girls.

    We haven't moved much from that "scarry place" in society. The other problme I think is that gays have sort of spoiled it for everyone in the sense that they were seen as effiminate and so society thinks of crossdressers as gays, and though they made great strides in acceptance, they are not home free yet. We are guilty by association, and the interenet hasn't helped. Look up crossdresser and what do get--porn sites galore, showing mostly gay activity of "trannies" "********" etc. So even the nicest among us is going to get tagged as ---you name it. It was a long time before I found this forum on the internet and in my search I went through a lot of portals and probably felt about myself the same as many people feel about us before figuring out that cd's weren't really part of that group..

    Also, people don't understand, the same way we don't always understand our own motivations. I feel perfectly comfortable in my clothes and would wear them outside if society was different but we are a long way from a society that is not only tolerant but accepting. We just have to accept that as fact, venture out if it is safe and necessary.

    As an afterthought maybe we should just wear a pink X as a shoulder patch and when we dress to go out, just add the patch to our clothing.!!!


    It would be nice to have CD colonies, something like nudist colonies, where a person could spend a week enjoying but out of the vue of society at large. Maybe even a ship cruise that is exclusely CD.
    Last edited by busker; 01-30-2011 at 05:14 PM.

  11. #11
    Rotten 80's child Nicole Erin's Avatar
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    I read about a lot of things.
    Thing is, anything you do that doesn't follow the herd is looked down on.
    People worry what the neighbors will think if you do anything.

    People are just judgmental pricks. If you are too pretty, too ugly, too fat, go to the doctor too often, have too many kids, if you are poor, if you are rich, if you are handicapped, if you are too tall or too short, keep too neat a house, too messy a house... and of course if you are openly GLBT, OR if you are "outed".

    Unless you are "normal" which is: straight, white, average built, middle class income, people judge you.

    When you see these suburbanites that try so fiercely to protect their perfect image, it is cause even THEY, the "totally average" people know they will be judged over any silly little thing.

    I do not really think TG get judged a whole lot more than anyone else who isn't "normal". We may get it a bit more than many but not that much.
    It takes a true Erin to be a pain in the assatar.

  12. #12
    Member julia ann's Avatar
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    I beleive it taught from the earliest ages that there is a difference and that a real male would not engage in such activity less he be labeled a "sissy" which if you are a four year old you have been taught there is nothing on the face of the earth that is worse than being a sissy. Society has in bread a bias towards people like us and to be faced with it, a natural human reaction based on the standard upbringing is to belittle what we perceive as being wrong. If you could get most people into an adult conversation and ask " why is it wrong" unless they revert back to chilhood style arguments, they would have to conclude that it is harmless. But good luck in persuadeing people, even the most grown up people can still be very closed minded based on there childhood teachings and will revert to something like " i know I am but what are you--- na na na"

  13. #13
    Platinum Member Karren Hutton's Avatar
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    women in society see it as wrong because its not what their fathers did. Men think its wrong because they might be attracted to a gut enfemme and that scares them.
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  14. #14
    Unofficial CD Mom Holly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tranny Tee View Post
    ...Seriously, we are different. We do things that most people do not do. Many people have problems reating to things that are not done by most members of the tribe.
    Mountain climbers are different and do things that most people do not do and yet I hear nothing of hatred of mountain climbing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lexi X View Post
    Its different and people are afraid of different things. Either that or it makes them look at themselves and scares them.
    Do you mean that it scares them because it makes them admit to themselves that they have had the same curiosity?

    Quote Originally Posted by suzy1 View Post
    I am going to be painfully blunt here. There are some crossdressers that look good dressed. And we certainly have some here!
    But there are some that don't. I think no mater how you look thats fine.
    But out there in the nasty old world others see a man in a dress and to them it looks anything but good. They don't like it. They think its weird, sick, perverted even.
    Now when these same people see a gorgeous looking drag queen it seems to be different. Even acceptable.
    I know that's not the complete answer but its part of it I think.
    I even have to admit, if I see a woman in men’s clothes I find it unpleasant.
    That’s just how I see it.
    Are you saying if we were all beautiful (whatever that means) then we would be accepted? GG's who fall short on the beautiful scale (again, whatever that means) are accepted as part of society although I am sure it is true that they not attain some of the privileges those who are perceived to be more attractive acquire

    Quote Originally Posted by Tania_aCrossdresser View Post
    I think that crossdressing may be considered as a threat to the masculine ideal,...
    Using this type of logic, wouldn't GG's also threaten this so called ideal by the very fact that they are feminine?
    Quote Originally Posted by Tania_aCrossdresser View Post
    The supposedly ideal in that a man never cries, he must protect, he must show strength, he must never back down from a fight, he must be loyal and supportive. To me this ideal is very hard to change, in particular when some males may show weakness but hide behind a mask of so called neanderthal mentality...
    Is this ideal hard to change in society or in yourself?
    Quote Originally Posted by Tania_aCrossdresser View Post
    I am strong, I will put down anyone who says I am weak.
    This means that a family who is heavily based on the ideal man may become furious if there daughter marries a guy who does not conform to their ideals hence conflict...
    So who is wrong here? The cross dresser or the family who based their ideals on a flawed concept?
    Quote Originally Posted by Tania_aCrossdresser View Post
    It is very sad that so many problems arise from the "ideal male" and many forms of "maleness" have evolved, only to be suppressed by the "ideal male"...
    This would indicate to me that the ideal male concept itself must be flawed if it has to be constantly revised.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tania_aCrossdresser View Post
    Unfortunately this attitude may take a long time to change, but with so much confusion about who crossdressers are, any change for the better will take much education and that takes time and commitment.
    I think that anything "out of the taken norm" will be considered as a threat from a closed society and that is so sad, but heck didn't poor old Copernicus have a problem putting forward his ideas on a sun centered universe and not the earth?
    I do believe you are on to something here. Don't we all feel a bit ill at ease when visiting someplace we have never been before? Landing at a new airport aren't we a little tense until we find out where the baggage claim is and where ground transportation is available? I agree... we need to discover a way to overcome the inertia of complacency at rest.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lucy_Bella View Post
    ...It's not the Clothing per say, its what it resembles how one acts when dressed or how you are perceived by others when dressed.. Walk around naked , you will be noticed, a guy wearing a dress is just a Taboo...
    But why is it Taboo? That is the question.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucy_Bella View Post
    ...There is nothing wrong in wearing clothing, are you wearing makeup as well? Are you in a wig and pumps? This is telling others that you are not JUST WEARING CLOTHING.. You are telling others you have a Femme/Masculin side that needs to be expressed. something that unless they have a Femme/Masculin side them selfs would never understand.. So without understanding you walking around or yearing the desire to express the Femme side you have are considered a freak!! Just as you would be if you were to walk around naked..
    I don't understand quantum physics but I don't think physicists are freaks. There has to be something more at work here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Joanne f View Post
    A good question and i am looking forward to seeing any replies from the GGs on the clothes side of it only .
    Me too
    Quote Originally Posted by Joanne f View Post
    ...I personally think it has a lot to do with sexual connotations possibly linked to the same sort of thing that people think when they see a woman in a very short skirt people start to think that it is worn for a reason other than just enjoyment .
    Do you think those among us who tend to dress more conservatively experience less hostility? You may have a point... at least from the male side of the population.

    Quote Originally Posted by SherriePall View Post
    I think it is because we upset the apple cart. If we look halfway decent then straight men have mixed feelings towards the woman they see if they realize that woman is actually a man. We threaten their sexual bearings. Rather than being their problem, they put the blame on us for creating those confusing thoughts they're having.

    That's my opinion at least for this moment.
    But what about the women? Are you saying we may be threatening their own sexuality?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stephanie Anne View Post
    It is associated with a private matter of fantasy and deception. It conveys weakness and betrayal of the masculine privilege. It assumes homosexuality which also betrays the masculine privilege.
    You are right in that we are slow learners at times. Look at how long it took us to give women the right to join men in self governance by extending the privilege of voting to them. Or persons of color to sit anywhere on the bus they chose.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stephanie Anne View Post
    ..There is a distaste for instability. To many the act of crossing gender lines means the accepted standards are irrelevant. It means people have to change and think and care for someone they never met...
    When outhouses were abandoned in favor of indoor plumbing and flushing toilets, I don't recall reading about a huge revolt against it. We change accepted standards all the time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stephanie Anne View Post
    ..But mostly it is because certain religions are very intolerant and teach that it is ok to hate someone for who they are and what they do. Pretty much everything I said before that statement is just smoke and mirrors to avoid the elephant in the room.

    Would it surprise you that I have received condemnation for offending god from members of this very forum simply for being transsexual? Even our own community contains people blinded by religious prejudice.
    Let's not go here too deeply. There is a whole section of the forum devoted to discussing religious issues. Let me just say factually very few religions teach hatred and condemnation. But there are an unfortunately high number of individuals who distort and pervert the basic tenants of some religions. It does do us no good to paint religion with the same broad brush we ourselves are all too often painted with.

    This question of why cross dressing is wrong and my comments are only intended to spur thought and discussion. I hope I have not offended anyone as none was intended. Several different possibilities to the rejection of cross dressing have been offered and all have some degree of merit. What I was hoping to find was some common denominator we could identify and start working on. The closest so far is fear of the unknown/misunderstood. Other thoughts?
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    I'm no GG, but I think I can speak for my wife when I say it's about gender. It's not about as shallow as this item or that. It's about a man trying to personify a woman. For so's this is a real conflict because most of us base such a relationship first and foremost on our SO being a certain gender (usually the opposite one from us).

  16. #16
    Platinum Member Eryn's Avatar
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    Even in the 21st century we live in what is essentially a primitive tribal culture. Each person has their role, men to protect the tribe and gather provisions, women to maintain the living conditions and raise the children. Each of these roles is essential to survival of the tribe and anyone who looks as though they won't completely fulfill their role is a perceived liability to the tribe.

    Men in women's clothing is perceived as a rejection of these essential gender roles and I believe that, deep down, it is still perceived by the observer as a threat to tribal survival. A man in a dress isn't prepared to fight and therefore won't "pull his weight" for the tribe. This threat doesn't bear close examination in modern context, but emotionally it is not examined and a negative feeling results that is expressed in various ways, almost all negative.

    Modern women have been able to go beyond their gender roles in some ways, but they are still somewhat trapped. They still feel pressured to "stay home with the children" or to "be good homemakers" despite their forays into the masculine world of provisioning.

  17. #17
    Senior Age Member sissystephanie's Avatar
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    Crossdressing is wrong in the minds of people who generally know nothing about crossdressing. Most people in this world have been raised to believe that men are men and women are women. Unfortunately, there is no conception of some people being a little of both sexes! Therefore if a man wears a dress or a real skirt(not a Kilt) he is considered to be wrong!! Just because he does not conform to the popular notion of what a man should wear!! Women wear mens clothing all the time and no one seems to care, so why should men be different!! The only reason is just because they are MEN!! We are special, at least in the eyes of some people!!

    I am very definitely a man!! But I wear feminine clothing out in public almost every day, but look entirely like the man that I am! I suppose most of the people who see me think I am totally wrong in what I do! But you know what?? In the past almost 6 years that I have been going out like that, I have not had one single negative comment. I have had many compliments, from both women and men, on my outfits. I guess my real attitude is that I don't give a d*** what other people think. I am ME, not someone elses property!!
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  18. #18
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    Originally Posted by Lucy_Bella
    ...It's not the Clothing per say, its what it resembles how one acts when dressed or how you are perceived by others when dressed.. Walk around naked , you will be noticed, a guy wearing a dress is just a Taboo...
    But why is it Taboo? That is the question.

    Oh my dear Holly,
    It really shouldn't be Taboo because of the amount of people whom partake .. I think if the internet was invented 75 years ago it would not be Taboo today.. Before the internet most like myself kept dressing very deep in the closet .. Now that the internet is here Crossdressing is gaining exposer.. Take other smaller socities In one is an island off of austrelia <-- spelled wrong I know..To where Trans gender isn't taboo and is part of the culture. That is because the close knit soceity that had very little or outside influence..




    Originally Posted by Lucy_Bella
    ...There is nothing wrong in wearing clothing, are you wearing makeup as well? Are you in a wig and pumps? This is telling others that you are not JUST WEARING CLOTHING.. You are telling others you have a Femme/Masculin side that needs to be expressed. something that unless they have a Femme/Masculin side them selfs would never understand.. So without understanding you walking around or yearing the desire to express the Femme side you have are considered a freak!! Just as you would be if you were to walk around naked..
    I don't understand quantum physics but I don't think physicists are freaks. There has to be something more at work here.

    Well Holly just as walking around in a attire meant for the other sex is Taboo so is walking around naked..The Physics isn't physical it's mental..Other words it is like looking at a red light our brain doesn't say "wow red light" its says stop. Just as if you where to see a male in female clothing others are assumieing that person is either confussed or just a nut case you pick. Unless you have the Mega ball ticket you won't check to see if your numbers have came up.Just as unless you are a Cder or know someone you care about is ,you will never gain information needed to understand one.
    I do not!! Claim to be an expert on any topic, when I post a new thread or reply on any thread my imput is strickly that of a crossdresser. Not to offend Gay people , Transexuals or any other life style, I am only commenting on one of my own.

  19. #19
    erica lynn stone erica12b's Avatar
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    sociely has guild lines , men dress as men ,girl as girls, the gay movment has blurred the lines ,the rules dont work any more , if it looks like a duck and walks like a duck , but has the wrong pluming , it a crossdresser , and its not cracking jokes we dont know what to do ,

    things humanity dont understand eather gets locked up , killed , or chased off
    I like my femself; it makes me feel more civilized, i think girltime should be a requirment for all kids.

  20. #20
    Adventuress Kate Simmons's Avatar
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    Basically people are not afraid of crossdressing in itself Holly. They are afraid of the potential implications that are tacked onto it and the stereotypes conjured up by it.In essence most believe a man cannot remain being a man if he chooses to dress up like a woman. While most of us here know this is a crock, most of society does not. CDing in general will probably never be accepted but some folks who do CD are accepted by others for who they are as a person, presentation notwithstanding.It's that easy or that hard, depending on our outlook.
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  21. #21
    Weirdest woman ever! docrobbysherry's Avatar
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    I think the answer is quite simple, Holly!

    Most of the posts here r like using a missile to kill a fly!

    When folks r out in public, they tend NOT to notice others much. When they DO notice u, there's a reason! They look at his dirty jeans, her tite jeans, her muffin top jeans, etc., etc. And, they THINK whatever judgmental thot they're used to thinking and simply move on!

    When they see a man in a dress, I believe most folk's gut reaction is, "Sicko, perv, weirdo, etc., etc". And, then they move on and forget about it!

    They don't spend much time thinking about WHY she/he's dressed that way. Most r AFRAID to hear the answer!

    I think if most individuals got to KNOW a CD personally, we wouldn't be so widely reviled!

    Of course, why friends and family don't widely accept CDs, I think is another matter entirely!
    Last edited by docrobbysherry; 01-30-2011 at 06:58 PM.
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  22. #22
    Fab Karen Fab Karen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stephanie Anne View Post
    Would it surprise you that I have received condemnation for offending god from members of this very forum simply for being transsexual? Even our own community contains people blinded by religious prejudice.
    Some people were born with a brain deficiency.

    You want greater understanding & acceptance? Walk out the door with your head held high. The more butterflies flapping, the greater the wind of change.
    Last edited by Fab Karen; 01-30-2011 at 07:03 PM.
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  23. #23
    AKA Lexi sometimes_miss's Avatar
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    See this thread http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/...men-reject-CDs
    and use the search function. This has been discussed many times. It seems people like to rehash over and ask the same questions over and over again, hoping for a new answer. And sure, when you're here, 'preaching to the choir', you'll get nice, supportive answers a lot. But in the real world, men do not typically dress and act like women, we are seen as unstable and unreliable persons, because our behavior is not what people have grown to expect from men. You can't change human nature.
    Some causes of crossdressing you've probably never even considered: My TG biography at:http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/...=1#post1490560
    There's an addendum at post # 82 on that thread, too. It's about a ten minute read.
    Why don't we understand our desire to dress, behave and feel like a girl? Because from childhood, boys are told that the worst possible thing we can be, is a sissy. This feeling is so ingrained into our psyche, that we will suppress any thoughts that connect us to being or wanting to be feminine, even to the point of creating separate personalities to assign those female feelings into.

  24. #24
    Member Toronto Kristen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sometimes_miss View Post
    ...This has been discussed many times. It seems people like to rehash over and ask the same questions over and over again, hoping for a new answer.
    I do not think people are hoping to get "a different answer to the same question", which is a somewhat facetious definition of insanity. Personally, I think that this, and other fundamental questions, keeps getting asked on this site because there are new people (like me) joining all the time: Trying to resolve (not necessarily answering) these questions is one of the reasons why I/we/they have joined this site (as well as having a community that understands my situation. Yes, I could use the search function but asking the question again does not hurt anyone.


    Holly,

    The answer to your first question is that cross-dressing in-of-itself is not wrong. It is the answer to the second question that is the critical one. The collective body that is general society is conservative in attitude and action. Western society has come a long way since the 1950s but there are still many hang-overs from that time. Just look at the general murmours of "disapproval" of the father who takes paternity leave. Yes, it is more acceptable but it is a long way from being considered a right equal to that of maternal leave. Crossdressing challenges society's norm that "men should dress like men". Note that I do not address women dressing in men's clothes as this is far more accepted by general society.

  25. #25
    Unofficial CD Mom Holly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by busker View Post
    ... I remember many years ago when I was in Europe, I was walking behind two girls with long blond hair, their walk was feminine, they had long coats on as it was winter so the slacks fit in my mental image, but all of a sudden they turned around and were 2 young guys that were a bit androgenous but I was just caught off guard by the long blond hair, and made the supposition that they were indeed girls...
    So if I understand what you are saying, the two people you were following behind didn't do anything wrong. It was you who drew the wrong conclusion.
    Quote Originally Posted by busker View Post
    ... The other problem I think is that gays have sort of spoiled it for everyone in the sense that they were seen as effiminate and so society thinks of crossdressers as gays, and though they made great strides in acceptance, they are not home free yet. We are guilty by association, and the interenet hasn't helped...
    Homophobia is alive and well. At least that is what I hear you saying. Forgive me if I am wrong.
    Quote Originally Posted by busker View Post
    ... Also, people don't understand, the same way we don't always understand our own motivations. I feel perfectly comfortable in my clothes and would wear them outside if society was different but we are a long way from a society that is not only tolerant but accepting. We just have to accept that as fact, venture out if it is safe and necessary.
    We seem to be hitting reoccurring theme here that society's opinion is based on a lack of or flawed knowledge.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nicole Erin View Post
    ...I do not really think TG get judged a whole lot more than anyone else who isn't "normal". We may get it a bit more than many but not that much.
    I agree with you. Still it is sad that people feel that they have to judge others at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by julia ann View Post
    I beleive it taught from the earliest ages that there is a difference and that a real male would not engage in such activity less he be labeled a "sissy" which if you are a four year old you have been taught there is nothing on the face of the earth that is worse than being a sissy.
    But why are such things taught in the first place?

    Quote Originally Posted by Karren Hutton View Post
    women in society see it as wrong because its not what their fathers did. Men think its wrong because they might be attracted to a gut enfemme and that scares them.
    Succinct and to the point.

    Quote Originally Posted by ikthys View Post
    I'm no GG, but I think I can speak for my wife when I say it's about gender. It's not about as shallow as this item or that. It's about a man trying to personify a woman. For so's this is a real conflict because most of us base such a relationship first and foremost on our SO being a certain gender (usually the opposite one from us).
    I'd like to believe this is true. But there is evidence to the contrary. On this forum alone there is account after account of partners purging their clothing at the insistence of their SO or other family member. And as to relationships being based on a potential partner being a certain gender, I would suggest it is not so gender based as it is sexual based. The desire to procreate is a strong driver. Having a same sex partner (or one who is perceived to be the same sex) complicates the process.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eryn View Post
    ...Men in women's clothing is perceived as a rejection of these essential gender roles...
    Just what makes these gender roles "essential" and who made that determination?
    Quote Originally Posted by Eryn View Post
    .....Modern women have been able to go beyond their gender roles in some ways, but they are still somewhat trapped. They still feel pressured to "stay home with the children" or to "be good homemakers" despite their forays into the masculine world of provisioning.
    If women have been able to accomplish this, what is holding men back from doing the same thing?

    Quote Originally Posted by sissystephanie View Post
    Crossdressing is wrong in the minds of people who generally know nothing about crossdressing...
    Another vote for inadequate or faulty education of the masses! [QUOTE=sissystephanie;2396149]...Women wear mens clothing all the time and no one seems to care, so why should men be different!! The only reason is just because they are MEN!! We are special, at least in the eyes of some people!!...Men are special? I'd like to hear more from you on this. It has been my experience that the woman was the one to be protected and cherished.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lucy_Bella View Post
    ...It really shouldn't be Taboo because of the amount of people whom partake .. I think if the internet was invented 75 years ago it would not be Taboo today.. Before the internet most like myself kept dressing very deep in the closet .. Now that the internet is here Crossdressing is gaining exposer.. Take other smaller socities In one is an island off of austrelia <-- spelled wrong I know..To where Trans gender isn't taboo and is part of the culture. That is because the close knit soceity that had very little or outside influence..
    Wouldn't it be interesting to know why some of these societies developed not only a tolerance for cross dressing but in some cases, a whole-hearted enthusiastic support of the practice?
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucy_Bella View Post
    ...Well Holly just as walking around in a attire meant for the other sex is Taboo so is walking around naked..The Physics isn't physical it's mental..Other words it is like looking at a red light our brain doesn't say "wow red light" its says stop. Just as if you where to see a male in female clothing others are assumieing that person is either confussed or just a nut case you pick. Unless you have the Mega ball ticket you won't check to see if your numbers have came up.Just as unless you are a Cder or know someone you care about is ,you will never gain information needed to understand one.
    Actually physics is very physical. By definition it is the study of all the physical things that make up the universe . But your "red light" point is well taken. We are programmed to accept certain things and reject others. I guess the question now becomes what basis do we use to make those judgments?

    Quote Originally Posted by erica12b View Post
    sociely has guild lines , men dress as men ,girl as girls, the gay movment has blurred the lines ,the rules dont work any more , if it looks like a duck and walks like a duck , but has the wrong pluming , it a crossdresser , and its not cracking jokes we dont know what to do ,

    things humanity dont understand eather gets locked up , killed , or chased off
    This thought opens up a whole bunch of cans of worms! What are these guidelines? who established them? Why are we bound to continue them?

    Quote Originally Posted by Denise Rhodes View Post
    Basically people are not afraid of crossdressing in itself Holly. They are afraid of the potential implications that are tacked onto it and the stereotypes conjured up by it.In essence most believe a man cannot remain being a man if he chooses to dress up like a woman. While most of us here know this is a crock, most of society does not. CDing in general will probably never be accepted but some folks who do CD are accepted by others for who they are as a person, presentation notwithstanding.It's that easy or that hard, depending on our outlook.
    Here again, we are suggesting a lack of knowledge or understanding. Denise, would you care to comment further on the statement, "some folks who do CD are accepted by others for who they are as a person?" This may be one of the missing keys.

    Quote Originally Posted by docrobbysherry View Post
    ...When folks r out in public, they tend NOT to notice others much. When they DO notice u, there's a reason! They look at his dirty jeans, her tite jeans, her muffin top jeans, etc., etc. And, they THINK whatever judgmental thot they're used to thinking and simply move on!
    So you see it as a matter of individual prejudices?
    Quote Originally Posted by docrobbysherry View Post
    ...When they see a man in a dress, I believe most folk's gut reaction is, "Sicko, perv, weirdo, etc., etc". And, then they move on and forget about it!
    Even though they have never interacted with such and individual. They had to get that preconceived notion from somewhere.
    Quote Originally Posted by docrobbysherry View Post
    ...I think if most individuals got to KNOW a CD personally, we wouldn't be so widely reviled...
    You and Denice seem to be on a similar wavelength .

    Quote Originally Posted by sometimes_miss View Post
    See this thread http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/...men-reject-CDs
    and use the search function. This has been discussed many times. It seems people like to rehash over and ask the same questions over and over again, hoping for a new answer. And sure, when you're here, 'preaching to the choir', you'll get nice, supportive answers a lot. But in the real world, men do not typically dress and act like women, we are seen as unstable and unreliable persons, because our behavior is not what people have grown to expect from men. You can't change human nature.
    Lexi, I have been around this forum for quite some time now and certainly longer than you. The thread you referenced is not the same as being asked here. GG's have plenty of reasons to reject cross dressers and not all of them relate to the act of cross dressing itself. What I am trying to get at is why the act of cross dressing is thought to be a wrong thing to do. What I'm hearing most is that it is because it is not understood. That in and of itself is understandable because many (most?) of us struggle to understand it ourselves.

    Quote Originally Posted by Explorer View Post
    ...The answer to your first question is that cross-dressing in-of-itself is not wrong. It is the answer to the second question that is the critical one. The collective body that is general society is conservative in attitude and action. Western society has come a long way since the 1950s but there are still many hang-overs from that time. Just look at the general murmours of "disapproval" of the father who takes paternity leave. Yes, it is more acceptable but it is a long way from being considered a right equal to that of maternal leave. Crossdressing challenges society's norm that "men should dress like men". Note that I do not address women dressing in men's clothes as this is far more accepted by general society.
    We seem to keep circling back to society's "norms." Perhaps we need to have a better understanding of who establishes these norms and approach the issue from that standpoint.

    This is a great discussion and I appreciate everyone's participation. I look forward to some of our Loved Ones joining in as well.
    Fulltime girl on the inside.
    Lipstick=confidence

    [SIZE=4]Holly[/SIZE]

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