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Thread: Why is being gay a prob?

  1. #51
    the happy camper
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    If you're gay, but you don't act feminine, people like you better.

    If you're a crossdresser, but you like girls, people like you better.

    If you're a gay CD/TS/DQ, but you're really hawt, people like you better.

    Obviously, the worst thing you can possibly be is an ugly, gay crossdresser.

    So whew! Thank goodness I'm not gay!


  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Avana View Post
    one word that starts with homo and ends with phobia
    Not everyone.

    Some people simply don't like being labeled as anything which they are not. So if you happen to be straight (and especially if you are also married), then the "you must be gay" title doesn't fit too well.

  3. #53
    One Perky Goth Gurl Pythos's Avatar
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    Actually, the reason it is a problem is becasue I personally would like to do away witht the automatic link of Gay and cross dressin. I like women, but it makes it a bit more difficult to find a woman that is interested in you when there is such an automatic reaction. I wish the question "are you gay?" would not be part of the line of questioning that we get for what we do.

    I have stated before, I have no problems with gay people. Frankly I have found the ones I know to be quite "normal", and to an extent boring. I have met only one that fit the stereotype, and really was unpleasant to be around.

    I just don't swing that way. Yes I like to display my legs, and have long hair, but that is not to attract men. I would like to find an open minded female that rejects the typical male image.

    I am finding that this is becoming more and more difficult the older I get.

    My GG has turned out to be only a friend. Which just sucks. I wanted a girl friend. But I have a sneaking suspicion that "our chemistry" didn't match because of my personal style.
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  4. #54
    Senior Member joannemarie barker's Avatar
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    people can say what they want.if they're not gay they are allowed to say it
    the fact that I like both makes it easier,I don't have to say anything

  5. #55
    What is normal anyway? Rianna Humble's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by joannemarie barker View Post
    people can say what they want.if they're not gay they are allowed to say it
    I'm not Scottish

    Quote Originally Posted by Jill Devine View Post
    if you happen to be straight (and especially if you are also married), then the "you must be gay" title doesn't fit too well.
    Funnily enough, I haven't seen too much evidence of that assumption by the members of these forums.

    Oh and by the way to help people understand where I'm coming from, I'm not left-handed
    Last edited by Rianna Humble; 02-19-2011 at 12:43 PM.
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  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jill Devine View Post
    Not everyone.

    Some people simply don't like being labeled as anything which they are not. So if you happen to be straight (and especially if you are also married), then the "you must be gay" title doesn't fit too well.

    that's fine, but the question was 'why is being gay a problem'. It wouldn't be a problem if there was no homophobia present.

    Unless you're trying to get with a girl and want to communicate that you're into girls only, why should sexuality even be an issue?

    If someone asks you if you are a model, would you have a problem being labeled that? But if someone asks if you are gay, so many people are immediately like "Hell no!"

  7. #57
    Aspiring Member DebsUK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jill Devine View Post
    Not everyone.

    Some people simply don't like being labeled as anything which they are not. So if you happen to be straight (and especially if you are also married), then the "you must be gay" title doesn't fit too well.
    But, speaking as a crossdresser who doesn't like prunes, why do people assume they are being labelled as anything? I mean, as I said before (and by the way, I don't drink tea) you are labelling yourself as soon as you declare that you are not gay. Personally I'm not wanting to be labelled whether what I'm being labelled with is true or not, unless it's that I'm a Sunderland supporter, god forbid

    As I said in the last version of this thread, there are more people missing the point than you'd find at a broken pencil support conference
    Last edited by DebsUK; 02-19-2011 at 05:47 PM. Reason: typo. I'm so anal
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  8. #58
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    Maybe try to confuse them...

    "Are you gay?"

    "No, I like guys."

  9. #59
    Senior Member joannemarie barker's Avatar
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    lol this thread could go on forever.funnily enough,just like a lot of gay threads here

  10. #60
    Drab 2 Fab in training DaniPat's Avatar
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    Wow, quite a lot of anger flowing in this thread, or should I say testosterone? Labels are labels, a way to distinguish between them and us. Personally I don't give a flyin **** who or what anyone is, as long as they are not trying to do harm mentally or physically to me, family, friends, handicapped, downtrodden, ....oh sh*t, more labels, damn. If the world would just lighten up, take people as they present themselves, wait presentation may be the wrong term, no, I use the term present as in - manner speaks louder than words.
    If a man asks me out on a date, shouldn't I take that as a compliment, just as if a female asks me out. If you can be graceful and polite in your refusal to the person asking, while taking it as a compliment, then you have not placed labels on the person asking. If I stated to a man asking me out - I'm not gay so bugger off mate, two possible outcomes here = 1) the man feels rejected in a manner which is very negative and may harm his ego/id. 2) the man may decide to kick my a**.
    I'm not into either possibility, I hate to hurt someone, and I don't like to be hurt.
    I have my opinion which may or may not coincide with others about labels being used to define them or us.....Pink Floyd comes to mind....Moon...Dark side...Us and Them...... It has always been about labels and will continue to be about labels until it is just about people.

    Personally I would love to meet other Cross Dressers or Trans Genders, to shop, chat, do girl stuff with, in drab or fab, TTFN.

    Danielle Patricia
    Last edited by DaniPat; 02-23-2011 at 07:08 PM. Reason: Grammar
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  11. #61
    AKA Lexi sometimes_miss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by James Kaon View Post
    But one thing that has come up quite alot is the link to homosexuality. I think I am probably guilty of this too but currently dont worry about it. I guess I just want to ask the question, if you are not gay, and you wear girls clothes, why is it important to state your sexuality (i am not attacking anyone here, I think I have done the same thing to my friend when I told her about it)? <snip>
    Easy one. 1. There are many women (and men) who just assume that any guy with feminine mannerisms either is gay, or is bi, and is someone who wants to have sex with a man. Since the '80's, there are a lot of women who are very reluctant to get involved with any guy who has been sexually active with another guy due to fear of HIV, so this assumption will eliminate you from ever being considered for a relationship with those women. 2. The vast majority of women are also sexually turned on by masculinity; and turned off by femininity. Yes, there are some that like feminine men; but do you really want to automatically eliminate >99% of all women from ever considering dating you? 3. As a straight male, I don't like being hit on by gay men, simply because a lot of men don't like to take no for an answer, and I don't like arguing about why I'm not interested in someone, or being told so many times that I should try gay sex because I just might like it. Men who dress as women, simply because we're doing our damnest to appear pretty and feel female-sexy, pretty much automatically attract this kind of attention, because it's a natural assumption, if you dress and act in a way that is traditionally meant to attract men, then it follows that you are trying to attract men. And people get annoyed when you do anything that doesn't 'follow the rules'.
    The homophobia issue is moot; I have several gay friends now, and get along with them quite well. I just don't want to have sex with them, and don't want them to mistakenly ever think that we could be in a romantic relationship. And yes, I like being the more passive person during sex; but that does not necessarily mean that I want a penis anywhere near or in me, which is what most people automatically think.
    Some causes of crossdressing you've probably never even considered: My TG biography at:http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/...=1#post1490560
    There's an addendum at post # 82 on that thread, too. It's about a ten minute read.
    Why don't we understand our desire to dress, behave and feel like a girl? Because from childhood, boys are told that the worst possible thing we can be, is a sissy. This feeling is so ingrained into our psyche, that we will suppress any thoughts that connect us to being or wanting to be feminine, even to the point of creating separate personalities to assign those female feelings into.

  12. #62
    Lover of Silk and Satin Veronica Lacey's Avatar
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    Hi James...

    Maybe declaring that you are not gay is simply important to you and you need to continue to get it off your chest until it loses its relevance.

    Maybe it is something as simple as dealing with all the stereotyping that occurs in the minds of those unfamiliar with these lifestyles. It may fuel your need to not only declare "I wear dresses" but to say "I am a hetero male who wears dresses" as if it will make a difference to the unititiated.

    Maybe your are still trying to cement your personal feelings on it all and saying it out loud helps little by little. If you still think there is a misconstrued link between dressing and homosexuality then it likely will continue to pop up.

    When said matter-of-factly it does not seem like a bad thing.

  13. #63
    What is normal anyway? Rianna Humble's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Veronica Lacey View Post
    It may fuel your need to not only declare "I wear dresses" but to say "I am a hetero male who wears dresses" as if it will make a difference to the unititiated.
    If only a few more people would put it positively rather than this constant negative "I'm not xxx!" why ram down our throuats what you are not instead of telling us what you are?

    BTW, so that people understand where I'm coming from, I'm not a Con-Dem!
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  14. #64
    Sparkly Starshine Mahoro's Avatar
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    Getting back to the OP;

    Quote Originally Posted by James Kaon View Post
    I guess I just want to ask the question, if you are not gay, and you wear girls clothes, why is it important to state your sexuality
    It is not necessary to do so. This site is a place we can all share our common interest in crossdressing, without having to muck every topic up with sexual preferences. There are certainly specific threads that deal with sexuality, such discussions fit in those threads, and are an important way for us to discuss these matters. But if you want to keep your sexual tendencies to yourself then just don't reply to those threads.

    Out in the 'real world' I would say the same, discussing your CD/TG/TS status does not have to include a discourse on what you enjoy in bed, however the question unfortunately seems to come up from most people who are 'uninitiated' to our community.

    Quote Originally Posted by James Kaon View Post
    I was curious as to why I needed to say that i was not gay!
    You don't have to. Although it may be impossible to hide the fact that you are a crossdresser from the general public, if a casual acquaintance or someone you just met asks you about your sexuality, simply tell them it's none of their business, and explain they are being extremely intrusive (or downright rude) for asking such personal questions. The only person you should ever have to explain such a thing to is your SO.

    Just imagine the reaction you would get from the CIS population if you asked every guy you met who happened to be wearing a pastel shirt if he was a gay, or if you inquired of any woman you met that had on flannel if they were a lesbian. Do you think that would be considered acceptable social behavior? Hell no, and it's equally inappropriate for someone (other than an SO) to ask any crossdresser if they are gay. I'm just saying....
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  15. #65
    the happy camper
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    Quote Originally Posted by gracee View Post
    Maybe try to confuse them...

    "Are you gay?"

    "No, I like guys."
    Alternatively, you could say, "Yes. I'm a lesbian."

  16. #66
    1st & 4th makeover pics Misti's Avatar
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    Calling card

    Sarah
    Caveat. No offense intended, this is offered in the sense of love, appreciation and good humor :
    I love your response so much that I thought I would make a calling card to help you smooth over any future introductions, that is, if you care to? Since they are pretty much your very own words (see #25 above) , please feel free to use them as you may since they are not copyrighted, yet.
    I would, however, like your permission to borrow them, so that I will be well prepared and be able to hand my SO a similar card in response to her inevitable question, "~", when she finds out about my proclivities? And, she will, you can count on it.
    Thanks a bunch. Enjoy. Love,
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    Last edited by Misti; 02-26-2011 at 07:07 PM. Reason: Damn, forgot the card graphic

  17. #67
    Silver Member Teri Jean's Avatar
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    I know I have answered this at least a couple dozen times since I came out and yes there is a preception that if you like dressing or in my case want to transition as female you must be attracted to men. In the case if you are a F to M you must be attracted to women. The quick answer is yes and no. For me I realized both, bisexual (?), or as I put it happy. For me if I find that special person that turns my head in a positive way, the package is not going to be a issue.

  18. #68
    Member Tess's Avatar
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    When I see the "I'm not gay" statement here I think of the quote from Hamlet: The lady doth protest too much, methinks

  19. #69
    Trans woman BiancaEstrella's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by James Kaon View Post
    Why is being gay a prob?
    This is the question posted in the thread title. Being gay, on its own, isn't a problem. If you're NOT gay, being told you are is a problem. In case "why" isn't clear, who wants to be thought of as something they aren't? I've accepted being called a crossdresser because I'm wearing clothing and shoes marketed to women. I won't accept being called gay for that same reason, and I won't accept it unless I've demonstrated intimate/sexual feelings and preference toward males -- since last time I checked, that's what makes someone gay. There's no leading causality there, and I don't like the idea of there being one created.

    To draw a parallel, I'm a black (for all intents and purposes) male, and on a typical male-mode day, my style of dress is considerably "urban" (t-shirt, jeans, sneakers, fitted hat on backwards; I know, I know, but please spare me for the sake of example) but I don't want to be auto-labeled a crook BECAUSE of that. Label me a crook because I stole a purse or punched somebody out, fine. But don't hand me my lifestyle.

    Quote Originally Posted by James Kaon View Post
    if you are not gay, and you wear girls clothes, why is it important to state your sexuality (i am not attacking anyone here, I think I have done the same thing to my friend when I told her about it)?
    I think it's a natural reaction to everything we've gone through -- it's certainly one of the first questions I'm asked. I'm neat, clean, and reasonably articulate/eloquent, and I've been told by women for much of my adult life that THAT was reason enough to think I'm gay. Throw in crossdressing -- and the unfortunate assumptions made thereof -- and it doesn't make things easier. Fair or not, that's what I have to deal with, and as such I've had to form a defense mechanism (in my case, simply stating my sexuality is usually enough) to keep from, again, being labeled as something I'm not. I don't enjoy that.

    Quote Originally Posted by James Kaon View Post
    Is it because it may limit your/our options or is it because it would be another level of prejudice we do not want to have to endure?
    I don't think it has to be an either-or here. My dating options are limited because the average woman hasn't encountered many crossdressers, and therefore they revert to the worst-case assumptions about us, and therefore me. I could use myself as an educational tool, but then the reaction is "great, that's fine to know and all, but no thanks."

    It's a level of prejudice for the same reason. An experienced salesperson at, say, Payless or Dress Barn may be accustomed to the occasional crossdresser, but a new employee may not know how to react and it'll show in their demeanor, be it detachment, giggling/carrying on, or sheer rudeness ("you know that dresses aren't made for your body type..."). Said new salesperson may be bright and bubbly with female customers but then be cold and indifferent to you, which is put-offish enough to where I personally would look to take my money elsewhere (and I'm sure others would agree).

    Quote Originally Posted by James Kaon View Post
    I was curious as to why I needed to say that i was not gay! For gods sake, my friend does not worry if I am straight!
    Good for you, all of us aren't so fortunate. We would hope to have friends of that same accord, but that just isn't the reality across the board.
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  20. #70
    GG ReineD's Avatar
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    It wasn't until just a few years ago that I became aware of the separation between gender and sexuality. Most people outside the LGBTQ community do think the two are related.

    We need to incorporate gender education in high school health & sexuality classes.
    Reine

  21. #71
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    I think the problem is that in our society, being gay is a problem for many people. Homophobia. If it were not a problem there, it would likely be less of a topic here.

    Generally I'm quite open minded about a lot of things (no kidding eh?), but when I discuss them with anyone (especially if someone I don't know is involved) I tend to cover my bases - I don't want to be misunderstood. I've had some instances in my life where I was (for one reason or another) not welcome or shut out, and a few times just simply betrayed. As a result, I am careful as to how I come across.

    Many of you have said it: because we dress as the opposite gender, the most common question is going to be 'Are you gay?' The typical result of general misconceptions held by the public.

    Another point also raised is that our sexual orientation matters a great deal to us as individuals, and that we wish to be clear on the question. I agree.

    Our society affects us. My take on this is that until our society changes, the topic of being straight, gay, or bisexual is always going to be in this forum.

  22. #72
    Complex Lolita...
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    Quote Originally Posted by James Koan
    Why is being gay a prob?
    [SIZE="2"]I wrote this a while ago, so bear with me…[/SIZE]

    But one thing that has come up quite alot is the link to homosexuality. I think I am probably guilty of this too but currently dont worry about it. I guess I just want to ask the question, if you are not gay, and you wear girls clothes, why is it important to state your sexuality (i am not attacking anyone here, I think I have done the same thing to my friend when I told her about it)? Is it because it may limit your/our options or is it because it would be another level of prejudice we do not want to have to endure?
    I think I have replied to a thread already something on these lines, but was truly curious as to why it is such an issue that needs stating? Surely, whether a fetish or a gender thing or whatever it is, this is the most safe place to NOT be pigeon holed?
    I guess this has prob been asked b4, but as I have always felt ok with gays or straight, I was curious as to why I needed to say that i was not gay! For gods sake, my friend does not worry if I am straight!!!!!
    [SIZE="2"]Being gay is NOT a problem, but MtF crossdressers are considered to be purveyors of alternative sexuality and perversion, thus aligning them with homosexuals, according to the agreed-upon parameters of accepted normality. Homosexuals are tolerated by society, to a certain extent, but they are not accorded equal rights under the law – the ongoing debate about gay marriage is the best example of what I’m talking about…

    You, as an MtF crossdresser, may be assumed to be gay – it’s the easiest explanation for people who do not care to see, hear, feel, or tolerate differences. Distinctions rule the day, and weakness is targeted without question – it’s not fair, but this is what you’re up against. You’ll spend a lot of time arguing that you’re NOT gay, simply because people equate overt effeminacy with homosexuality. Your MtF crossdressing is an expression of effeminacy, like it or not, so this is the cross you’ll have to bear along your continuing journey into the unknown…

    I also object to this mandatory “declaration” of one’s sexuality – not only is it unnecessary and intrusive, but it implies that there’s something wrong with being different in terms of accepted sexuality, as outlined by society. I mean, who says? Who cares? On one hand you’re supposed to conform, and on the other hand you’re encouraged to “be all you can be,” as long as your idea of “being” is pre-approved, that is. The only important thing to do is live your life like a human being, and you get to decide what that amounts to…
    [/SIZE]


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  23. #73
    New Member gungho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReineD View Post
    We need to incorporate gender education in high school health & sexuality classes.
    I'd settle for some proper Sex Ed classes as a start.


    To be on topic, there is nothing wrong with being gay or being straight. I don't necessarily see anything wrong with trying to explain where you are comming from on a topic but I can see why it is annoying to other posters.

  24. #74
    Gold Member NicoleScott's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frédérique View Post
    You, as an MtF crossdresser, may be assumed to be gay – it’s the easiest explanation for people who do not care to see, hear, feel, or tolerate differences. Distinctions rule the day, and weakness is targeted without question – it’s not fair, but this is what you’re up against. You’ll spend a lot of time arguing that you’re NOT gay, simply because people equate overt effeminacy with homosexuality. Your MtF crossdressing is an expression of effeminacy, like it or not, so this is the cross you’ll have to bear along your continuing journey into the unknown…
    Frederique, help me out here. Are you saying that because people assume crossdressers are gay, and that I am a crossdresser, I must accept that I may be considered gay? And that's the way it is, that's the cross I have to bear? Of all people, folks on this forum should better understand the differences between sex and gender and the different ways they are expressed. Why would we passively allow others to continue to believe what we know to be true: there isn't a connection between crossdressing and homosexuality? A person can be one, the other, both, or neither. Why can't we say what we are?
    Saying that I am not gay (or, as some prefer, I am straight) is not a mandatory declaration but an optional one. It is necessary, for those who think it is, and is not intrusive. Sure, it may be irrelevant to the topic at hand, but it can easily be blown off and ignored. No need to take offense.
    Rianna, making a simple statement that I am not gay is certainly not ramming my sexuality down your throat. Stop the hyperbole, please.
    Wanting people (who may assume I am gay because I crossdress) to understand that I am straight is not homophobia. Just trying to keep the issues (cd & gay) separate, as they are.

  25. #75
    One Perky Goth Gurl Pythos's Avatar
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    NicoleScott, I concur with what you say. This is a "cross to bear" that should have been jettisoned long ago. What is needed is not only the Crossdressers themselves correcting people, but also GGs that know them.

    As I have said, I am already putting up blockers for potential dates or partners simply because of my style, so, I don't want to lose one due to her thinking improperly that I am dressed to attract men. I dress for me, but would love a female to approach me and hit on me.

    Sophie, I partially agree. However, do you know what concept scares the bejeezes out of me. Racists and biggots home schooling. Actually to tell you the truth, some of the more ignorant or uneducated kids I have met....homeschooled.

    I do think todays schools are sending kids out entirely unprepared for the world. There needs to be much more coverage on labor laws and what a job can expect of you and make you do, I am amazed that that is not done and how few people actually know the amount of hours one can work a day without overtime. Many kids have no idea how to do taxes. It is really disconcerting.
    Last edited by ReineD; 03-01-2011 at 01:14 PM. Reason: Merging consecutive posts. Please use the Edit button for added thoughts.
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